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65 Exhaust manifolds & engine removal

Started by nick.stratta, February 18, 2017, 07:00:07 PM

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nick.stratta

Hi All,
My exhaust manifolds are cracked and blowing so bad I'm going to have to remove the engine to repair them.  I typically can't get at 3 or so of the bolts holding the manifolds on - they seem an odd size?
My question -this will the second time I've welded them up. So Sanderson Headers? Has anybody tried them? I'm aware of the requirement to fab an alternator bracket but do they fit OK or is it a case of out of the frying pan into the fire? More torque and pickup would be good but not at the expense of noise either.  I also don't want to find I have to modify the starter/ steering linkage/ brake lines etc to make them fit.  Has anybody done it and what is the advice please?
Secondly why does the stock exhaust route the way it does?  Seems a poor design for gas flow to me.  I was thinking of a common dual system with an H pipe after the transmission would be a lot better for flow and torque. Any advice please?

Finally, normally when I take an engine out I at least open it up to see what it is like and replace the basics like oil pump, water pump, check the valves and clean out and possibly port the heads, clean out the sump pan, clean the pickup thoroughly, redo the timing cover and crank seals etc. This engine runs well and I'm tempted to do the minimal to it - it's always been an 'on the button engine' so don't want to disturb it too much. But any advise of what to address whilst it is out please?
Thanks all, Nick in Ireland
regards & thanks Nick
CLC 23023, CLCMRC Museum benefactor 113

Scot Minesinger

It seems like you could just remove the exhaust manifolds and leave the engine in place to effect this repair.  I have removed my exhaust manifold to repair a bad intake valve, including removing intake manifold and passenger head while engine remained in Cadillac. 

It might be best to buy great used exhaust manifolds.  Cast iron is a very effective noise reduction material and headers will likely be not as quiet. 

For non-stock exhaust manifold advice, the modified chapter may be best, they have likely enjoyed more experience than many on this forum.

If you do anything on engine clean up/maintenance, replace the timing chain and cam sprocket.  GM utilized nylon coated sprocket on Cadillacs from 1963 up through 1980 or so.  The nylon flakes off and collects in oil pan.  The aluminum front cover is also weak, so be prepared to manage this.
Fairfax Station, VA  22039 (Washington DC Sub)
1970 Cadillac DeVille Convertible
1970 Cadillac Sedan DeVille
1970 four door Convertible w/Cadillac Warranty

nick.stratta

Hi Scott, Thanks - yes forgot that piece too.  Did the timing chain on my 472 in the '68 Fleetwood and almost all the teeth were missing.  i don't know ho wit stayed on the sprocket.

I also have no real heat - the slider controls do nothing and one is frozen so I guess the inner cables are rusted solid or jammed in the outer sleeve. I haven't used any force because I don't want to break anything. I plan to take the heater box out and take a look and maybe redo the heater matrix at the same time. Can you get the cables? I don't think you can get the heater box off without removing the engine can you?

Plus clean and paint everything .....
regards & thanks Nick
CLC 23023, CLCMRC Museum benefactor 113

nick.stratta

Should I move the thread?  Didn't know whether to paste it here or in the Restoration section. Hopefully Bruce will see it some time and do what's best for it?
regards & thanks Nick
CLC 23023, CLCMRC Museum benefactor 113

The Tassie Devil(le)

G'day Nick,

You say that some of the bolt heads don't appear to be the right size.

Seems funny to me that they are different, BUT, I have seen this phenomenon before, especially with engines out of USA where rust has simply removed parts of the bolt heads.   Here I have had to use a combination of  metric spanners (Sockets) and especially the six sided ones in both metric, AF etc, and some persuasion of the hammer to get them on tightly.

If you are going to pull the engine, and open it up, you might well find it either good inside, or needing a barrel of parts.

Bruce. >:D

PS.   I wouldn't classify an engine rebuild as a restoration.   But, there would be circumstances where it could qualify as a restoration.
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Past Cars of significance - to me
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nick.stratta

G'Day!  Raining here - how's it with you? Blazing sun I guess.
I've tried a combination of spanners and sockets. Will have a go round again with some whitworth ones!  And plenty of WD40.
Generally - what's the opinion on installing the Sanderson headers?  is it a relatively easy task or does it involve a whole load more work in clearance issues round the steering gear, brakes, fuel line etc? And do they come with collectors or Do I have to set a set of those too?
Thanks
regards & thanks Nick
CLC 23023, CLCMRC Museum benefactor 113

Scot Minesinger

Highly recommend you buy the shop manual if you have not already, it is really great.  Go to e-bay and many inexpensive versions exist.  Buy the book not computer version. 

This will tell you how to get the heater box off, it is super simple and does not require engine removal.  The cables, hoses and controls are removed.  Then undo six screws and it is out.  The cables can be rebuilt or buy good used.  Cadillac Tim (Google Cadillac Tim in Iva, SC) and call him.  He took down his web site.

The difficult part of course is not breaking the exhaust bolts when removing exhaust manifold.  If the engine bay is real clean and good, like mine was when I replaced the one intake valve, no need to remove engine.  Even if exhaust manifold bolt does break you can remove the head without removing engine.  If you do need to really clean it up in engine bay, then engine removal may be the way to go.  You can get to everything much easier. 

If you are going to remove engine and replace exhaust manifolds with headers, then get the headers now and remove exhaust manifolds with engine in car, breaking bolts or whatever and then you can make sure the headers fit.  Then remove engine.
Fairfax Station, VA  22039 (Washington DC Sub)
1970 Cadillac DeVille Convertible
1970 Cadillac Sedan DeVille
1970 four door Convertible w/Cadillac Warranty

Chuck Swanson

I do most of work myself, but I had my friend at his shop remove mine on my '65 Eldo.  The last bolt broke off.  He did the job with engine in car.   Took 3-4 hours to replace broken bolt with a stud.  2200 miles later the replacement stock manifolds are fine. 
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76eldo

On a 1965 Cadillac your sizes will be SAE sizes, certainly not metric.
The bolt heads are probably a bit eroded and amenable that you are using 6 point not 12 point sockets on this.

Brian
Brian Rachlin
Huntingdon Valley, Pa
I prefer email's not PM's rachlin@comcast.net

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