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1956 A/C Compressor rebuild dilemma

Started by J. Gomez, June 06, 2007, 04:41:11 PM

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J. Gomez

Quote from: jgreene on November 06, 2013, 10:24:50 AM
Why couldn't Cadillac do that?


Jim,

Good point…!  ;)

Only logical answer is, back then Cadillac as the high end class cars owner would not be involved on their regular maintenances/repairs as other GM brands.
Now fast forward a few years and now we are deeply involved with these beauties, so we are now dependent for such detail information from non-Cadillac brands I general.

I found the repair manuals for Buick, Olds, Chevrolet, etc have more in depth details than the Cadillac ones at least those I checked.  :o
J. Gomez
CLC #23082

Coupe Deville

Hello everyone. I looked threw that Chevy book on service of the A-5 compressor. It was very good. I will be recharging the A/C at some point in my fathers 59 Cadillac. It all seems good except i have a question about the oil. The recomended oil for the A-5 in the book was Fridgided Air oil. Wonder what the modern day equivalent oil is. I am assuming that this is the oil that is dedicated for the compressor internals only and not the oil that circulates through the A/C system. Is this correct? I was also reading up on the expansion valves and how its a good idea to look at them during a A/C service. Old air products offers a rebuilding service of the expansion valves. Would a rebuilt one be ok, or replace. Sorry for all of the questions. I really appreciate it.

Thanks

-Gavin   
-Gavin Myers CLC Member #27431
"The 59' Cadillac says more about America than a whole trunk full of history books, It was the American Dream"

J. Gomez

#22
Gavin,

The type of oil would be mineral viscosity 525, Frigidaire was the OEM oil but any mineral with viscosity 525 should do it.

As for your second topic, I would have to leave it for the experts here. Maybe Mr. Greg Surfas would chime in he is more knowledgeable on that area.

Good luck..!
J. Gomez
CLC #23082

"Cadillac Kid" Greg Surfas 15364

Thanks for the vote of confidence. Gavin, I would strongly recommend someone knowledgeable like "Old Aire" go through both your expansion valve and the bypass valve.  Be sure and replace the receiver/dryer and when you add oil (525 viscosity Mineral oil is correct if you are  going to use R-12) be sure you ADD the quantities specified into each of the components (compressor, condenser, evaporator) the factory manual indicates.
Greg Surfas
Cadillac Kid-Greg Surfas
Director Modified Chapter CLC
CLC #15364
66 Coupe deVille (now gone to the UK)
72 Eldo Cpe  (now cruising the sands in Quatar)
73 Coupe deVille
75 Coupe deElegance
76 Coupe deVille
79 Coupe de ville with "Paris" (pick up) option and 472 motor
514 inch motor now in '73-

jgreene

J. Gomez,
Another question about the A-5 compressor on a 1956 Cadillac.  If I get the front shims set up correctly where they do not drag, then the rear facing clutch drags on the facing of the ring that bolts to the back (6 bolts) of the assembly.  In other words I can go through the process of a slight drag while press down on the clutch in the pulley, adding the .010 shim, then put the six bolts on the back, and the assembly drags on the rear part of the clutch.  I have put it on the car, and the moment I put the six bolts on, it drags when I spin it.  It is almost as if the clutch assembly is too thick for the space.  I can find no measurement for how far apart these two clutch plates should be (mine is 3/16" apart.)  Could the nylon balls be too large in diameter?
Thank you for reading this.
J. Greene
Jim Greene

J. Gomez

Jim,

I did measure the nylon balls and I still have one or maybe two in storage somewhere. The ones I have are deformed from heat and wear and tear.

I was not able to find the correct size on nylon but found them on the ceramic type, a bit more $$ but they will outlast the compressor.

I’m out of town on a business trip, and do not have any data with me, I should be able to get more precise details by end of the week/weekend.

Send me a PM as I may forget to get the information for you, old age is taking a toll..!  :D
J. Gomez
CLC #23082

J. Gomez

Jim,

I had a chance to measure the spare clutch plate and the nylon balls.

Clutch plate inside gap -> 0.150”

Clutch plate outside gap (this includes the friction materials) -> 0.390”

The nylon balls are approximately 0.442”

Good luck..!
J. Gomez
CLC #23082

jgreene

J Gomez,
I now have another question about '56 Cad a/c's.  Years ago a mechanic changed around the way the idle speed up worked, and I am trying to put it back to factory.  There are three wires coming out of the firewall---one is green, one is violet (I think) and one is black (all wrapped up together.)  I hooked the green one up to the connection on the idle speed up, and a separate wire running to the compressor.  The speed up works, but I can't get power to the compressor.  Is the black wire also part of it?  Or do I have a problem in the electrical device that triggers the idle speed up?
If anyone has a photo of the original hook-up, that would be greatly appreciated.
Thx
Jim
Jim Greene

J. Gomez

Quote from: jgreene on May 05, 2014, 10:41:01 AM
J Gomez,
I now have another question about '56 Cad a/c's.  Years ago a mechanic changed around the way the idle speed up worked, and I am trying to put it back to factory.  There are three wires coming out of the firewall---one is green, one is violet (I think) and one is black (all wrapped up together.)  I hooked the green one up to the connection on the idle speed up, and a separate wire running to the compressor.  The speed up works, but I can't get power to the compressor.  Is the black wire also part of it?  Or do I have a problem in the electrical device that triggers the idle speed up?
If anyone has a photo of the original hook-up, that would be greatly appreciated.
Thx
Jim

Jim,

I'm attaching the wiring diagram for the AC and the Idle speed-up via the neutral safety switch which it is missing from the manual.

Hope this helps..!
J. Gomez
CLC #23082

jgreene

J Gomez,
Thank you for your quick response.  You had sent me this diagram before, so I have it.  Where is shows the speedup going into the circuit is not really where it goes in.  Do you know what manual that little extra diagram came from?  My problem is the three wires coming out of the firewall together (in electrical tape.)  I assume you have a '56 with air?  It would be great to get a picture of the wire(s) that come out of the firewall toward the hookups on the idle speed up device.
Thank you very much!
Jim
Jim Greene

J. Gomez

Quote from: jgreene on May 05, 2014, 02:39:15 PM
J Gomez,
Thank you for your quick response.  You had sent me this diagram before, so I have it.  Where is shows the speedup going into the circuit is not really where it goes in.  Do you know what manual that little extra diagram came from?  My problem is the three wires coming out of the firewall together (in electrical tape.)  I assume you have a '56 with air?  It would be great to get a picture of the wire(s) that come out of the firewall toward the hookups on the idle speed up device.
Thank you very much!
Jim

Jim,

Oops sorry forgot that I did send the diagram to you..!  :-[

Yes, I have a ’56 with AC and this diagram was spliced together from two sources one from the Service Manual Fig 16-A-4 and the neutral switch from the 1957 wiring diagram ( did not had the ’56 at that time). The speed-up solenoid was from an electronic image.

Not knowing what the shady mechanic made with the wiring from the AC control panel, I can only provide the wiring diagram and a brief explanation on the connections.
Sorry I do not have a picture that would save the lengthy explanation.

The three wires at the fire wall should be green, violet and black.

The green would be +12V from the AC control panel, when you flip the 3 way switch to the “ON” position.

The violet will be ground but only when the shifter is in “P” or “N”.

The black will be +12V for the compressor clutch solenoid feed from the rear evaporator freeze control thermostat.   If you follow the diagram you will notice the +12V source for the compressor clutch is feed from the Dark green wire at the control panel.

The +12V will only be apply when the temperature control lever is set to full (dark blue wire) or the thermostat (also at the rear unit) contacts are on the cool position.

Again sorry the lack of picture and the lengthy explanation, hope this helps..!
J. Gomez
CLC #23082

jgreene

Jim Greene

jgreene

J Gomez,
Thank you for your quick response.  You are correct about the color of the wires, but now they are too short, and I am not sure how I am going to fix that.
Anyway, do you know how they hook up to the two female ends on the idle speed up unit?  Does the violet need to ground anywhere?  Should I put the black and green on the same little male end on the idle speed up unit?  You can see why I am looking for a photo of the correct hook up.
Again, thank you very much.
Jim
Jim Greene

J. Gomez

Jim,

but now they are too short, and I am not sure how I am going to fix that.

You can always splice a piece of wire between the connectors, solder them (I’m not too keen with the butt crimp connectors) and used a heat shrink tubing. If you do it in the middle were the wire will be covered by the tape it will not be noticeable.

Anyway, do you know how they hook up to the two female ends on the idle speed up unit? 

There is no polarity required for the speed up solenoid so either green or violet can go to any of the male bullet connector.

Does the violet need to ground anywhere? 

No the violet is the ground source. I try not to complicate the ground source on my previous reply.

The ground on the violet comes from the starter via the hold-down coil from the started solenoid which it is grounded. This is why the idle speed up only works on “P” or “N” via the neutral switch.
 

Should I put the black and green on the same little male end on the idle speed up unit?

No the black goes directly to the compressor and these should not be tied together. I found my hardness and the idle speed-up which and lay them out for the attached picture, the black goes over to the compressor. Maybe someone with an AC can provide additional pictures of the wiring.

Good luck..!
J. Gomez
CLC #23082

jgreene

J Gomez,
Thank you very much for the very specific explanations!  The hookups look the same, but the speed up unit looks different from mine.  May have made a change late in the year, or yours is from a '57, but not sure.
All the same, thank you
Jim Greene
Jim Greene

J. Gomez

Quote from: jgreene on May 07, 2014, 10:17:26 AM
J Gomez,
Thank you very much for the very specific explanations!  The hookups look the same, but the speed up unit looks different from mine.  May have made a change late in the year, or yours is from a '57, but not sure.
All the same, thank you
Jim Greene

Jim,

Oops forgot to mention the one on the picture is for the Rochester 4GC yours maybe for the Carter WCFB but the wiring arrangement for it would be the same.

Good luck..!
J. Gomez
CLC #23082

55 cadi

Hello,

I know this is older topic but question is,

Does it matter which wire is hooked up to the control?

Purple on the the lower connection or the upper connection?

Mine were disconnected and don't know which is where.

Thank you

Jason
55 cadi
1955 Cadillac sedan series 62
1966 mustang convertible w/pony PAC, now in Sweden
2005 Cadillac deville

J. Gomez

Quote from: 55 cadi on October 13, 2014, 10:50:19 AM
Hello,

I know this is older topic but question is,

Does it matter which wire is hooked up to the control?

Purple on the the lower connection or the upper connection?

Mine were disconnected and don't know which is where.

Thank you

Jason
55 cadi

Jason,

If you are referring to the idle speed up control wiring the answer is no, either wire can be hook up at any of the connectors.

Good luck..!
J. Gomez
CLC #23082

55 cadi

Thank you Mr Gomez.

I also read a second time and and saw it stated so, but wanted to be positive.
1955 Cadillac sedan series 62
1966 mustang convertible w/pony PAC, now in Sweden
2005 Cadillac deville