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Where to buy fan belts/V Belts

Started by mummyjohn, March 03, 2014, 08:18:42 AM

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mummyjohn

Yesterday my roommate drove my car but ran out of gas and had to call a tow truck to take him to the filling station.  Not long after leaving there, he found the steering get MUCH harder.  I drove it 'round the block when he got back and had to muscle it into every turn.  When I pop open the hood, one of the belts driving the power steering pump is hanging together by a thread and the other one's completely broken.  This is a 500 engine from 1971, so the air/con and power steering are driven by two V-belts; according to the manual they're .470" wide belts, 59" long, with a 38-degree wedge.  I've been looking around the 'Net and can't find any that quite fit this specification.  Is there a particular place you guys use to buy replacement belts?  Or is it possible to get away with using something else?

Secondly - if anyone knows - what causes this?  I can include pictures of where they failed if that'd help.  I'm wondering if this is simply an old age thing or if something particular caused it, though my suspicion lies with the former.
- E. Ringman

1971 Eldorado coupe

TJ Hopland

If you are just looking at a V belt catalog I don't think you will find much, I believe by the 70's automotive was a different style belt than your typical v belt drive setup.

I have still had pretty good luck with actual Gates automotive belts.  They seem to need to be re tensioned at least one time after you run em a bit.  Some stores carry them under that name still while others say their belts are made by Gates but they must be a different spec because they just don't seem to work well.  They seem stretchy so if its an application where they have a decent load on them they tend to slip a lot.

I think some of the specialty vendors have reproduction belts.  I know they are expensive and have not heard how the quality is. 
StPaul/Mpls, MN USA

73 Eldo convert w/FiTech EFI
80 Eldo Diesel
90 CDV
And other assorted stuff I keep buying for some reason

Gene Beaird

I'm seeing a Gates 7597 belt for a 71 Eldo w/o 140-amp alternator, and a Gates 9570 if you have a 140-amp alternator (usually associated with the rear window defroster).  The 7597 will be a 59.7" 3/8" wide belt, whereas the 9570 will be a 1/2" wide (measured from the wide side) 57" belt. 

Make sure you get a matched set.  Sometimes they come wrapped with a tape band designating them as a matched set, but you can verify by making sure both belts have the same lot, or carcass number on them.  It'll be by the part number. 

Gene Beaird,
1968 Calais
1979 Seville
Pearland, Texas
CLC Member No. 29873

txturbo

#3
All auto parts stores have them. Just ask for it by the application or ask for a 1/2" wide by 57" long v-belt.
D. Roden
1956 Coupe De Ville PINK
1963 Cadillac Sedan De Ville

35-709

Right, those belts are easy to find.  No doubt old age got yours. 
1935 Cadillac Sedan resto-mod "Big Red"
1973 Cadillac Caribou - Sold - but still in the family
1950 Jaguar Mark V Saloon resto-mod - Sold
1942 Cadillac 6269 - Sold
1968 Pontiac Bonneville Convertible - Sold
1950 Packard 2dr. Club Sedan
1935 Glenn Pray - Auburn Boattail Speedster, Gen. 2

DeVille68

Hi guys,

I just bought a Gates 7470 for my 68 DeVille. This belt is for an non AC car. (13/32'' x 47-5/8'' for a later style engine)
My car has AC but the compressor is removed and the pulley is changed because the previous owner installed a GM Hei system.

I have two questions:
1) How to install this power steering belt? Can I do that with the engine in?
Is it correct, that I need to remove the fan and shroud and remove the water pump pulley?
At least, that is what my manual says?

2) This gates 7470 belt has teeth. Why? What are they used for? I don't think they are for a teeth pulley, because there are two different tooth sizes that alternate.

Thanks a lot. 
Best regards,
Nicolas
1968 Cadillac DeVille Convertible (silver pine green)

TJ Hopland

What they may be talking about in the manual is some years and combinations of crank and water pump pulleys almost touched each other so there would not be room to sneak a belt between em.   Simple to figure out.  If a belt will sneak between em no problem.  If it won't then you would have to at least loosen or possibly remove the fan and water pump pulley to sneak it in there.  Since stuff has been swapped or modified on your car it may have a combo that has clearance so you may not have to do anything special.

The notches are just to allow the belt to bend tighter and grip a small pulley like an alternator better. 
StPaul/Mpls, MN USA

73 Eldo convert w/FiTech EFI
80 Eldo Diesel
90 CDV
And other assorted stuff I keep buying for some reason

DeVille68

#7
Ah, ok. But the teeth do not reduce the amount of "grip" the belt has on the pulley?
Or should I get a "true" Vee belt?

Regarding pulley setup. I think I just figured it out. Some dude messed around in my engine compartment and removed the A.I.R Pump. So to run the water pump he just put a belt around the crank pulley and the water pump pulley and pressed that stuff on!!   :o

There is no way for me to replace the power steering belt. I really need to remove the full fan and pulley of the water pump, and hope get the old belt between crank and water pump pulley lose.

However, there might be another idea I have.
What if I create my own idler pulley at the location of the original A.I.R Pump and run again a belt from the crank to the water pump to the idler pulley?

That way I can adjust this belt and to replace the power steering belt I could just cut the current belt.

Did anyone replace the A.I.R pump with an idler pulley?
Any ideas?

Thanks a lot
Best regards,
Nicolas

P.S: I attached the page on the drive belts of my 68 Shop Manual
1968 Cadillac DeVille Convertible (silver pine green)

TJ Hopland

Sounds like you have figured out whats going on with yours.    There were a few years where these engines didn't have smog pumps so the cleanest way to do it is find one of those pulley sets.  70,75, and 78 seem to be the most common years that didn't have them.   70 would have still been the dual rear groove pulley.  75 they went to a larger single groove pulley for the AC and PS to make clearance for the HEI distributor cap.   They way to tell by looking at the crank pulley if you have a smog or non smog one is the gap between the front and rear grooves.  A smog one the grooves were all fairly close together, a non smog one the front groove will be spaced about 1" further forward.  This was to align directly with the alternator so you had a belt that went crank, water pump, alternator. 

I have never heard of an idler.   I have heard that somehow people have been able to space the alternator further back to align with what was the smog belt, I can't quite visualize that one myself.  I have also heard of people spacing the PS forward so it then uses the groove in the crank and water pump that ran the smog pump.   This to me looks more doable but I have not actually done it.   I was able to find a non smog pulley set.     I say set because you want both the matching crank pulley, water pump pulley, and the timing mark indicator as a set.     If you are not a junkyard internet scavenger yourself you could try talking to Marty at 500cid.com.  He sometimes has used sets available.  He also has some real purdy billet aluminum ones if you don't mind spending a few bucks. 

If you don't care what it looks like the single groove vs dual groove don't make much difference, you can run a single belt in a dual pulley it just looks a little strange.  I have a single crank and dual PS.   Its been that way for 20 years and works fine.     
StPaul/Mpls, MN USA

73 Eldo convert w/FiTech EFI
80 Eldo Diesel
90 CDV
And other assorted stuff I keep buying for some reason

DeVille68

Ok, good idea with relocating the alternator. I just looked into that and it seems it can be done by moving the alternator 2cm back and 2cm out. Will need to create a special spacer. But your idea with the PS pump maybe much better. Since the alternator is already close to the exhaust manifold. I don't like to to be any closer. I will try and see if I can relocate the PS Pump. I'll keep you guy updated. Will post my solution
1968 Cadillac DeVille Convertible (silver pine green)