Cadillac & LaSalle Club Discussion Forum

Cadillac & LaSalle Club Forums => Restoration Corner => Topic started by: Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621 on August 31, 2012, 09:59:11 AM

Title: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car
Post by: Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621 on August 31, 2012, 09:59:11 AM
Very unusual one-off factory show car. Lots of unique touches including console floor shifter, raised-center hood & full rear wheel openings. Very realistic asking price for a genuine factory custom.

http://orlando.craigslist.org/cto/3229502334.html
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: jagbuxx #12944 on September 01, 2012, 12:29:19 PM
WOW!
That would be a car definitely to bring back to perfection.
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621 on September 01, 2012, 01:07:14 PM
It appears to have been sold from what I gather. I hope a CLCer got it. Somebody made a killing here.
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: 76eldo on September 01, 2012, 02:10:07 PM
Hard to believe they went from the smooth clean lines of the 1960 and created so many angles and different shapes for the back of the '61.

It's a very unique find and it would be nice to see it restored to its original specs.

Brian
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: Bob Hoffmann CLC#96 on September 01, 2012, 02:19:50 PM
Guys,
I see no Motorama experts have commented. IS it a real car?? My opinion is it's not. What say others?
Does someone have a Motorama book?
Bob
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621 on September 01, 2012, 03:27:04 PM
The only thing we don't know is if the data plate carries "XP" or some other special designation- which would pretty well ice it.
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: Bob Hoffmann CLC#96 on September 01, 2012, 03:41:00 PM
Eric,
Thanks for posting the pic. I've changed my mind.
Bob
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: Davidinhartford on September 01, 2012, 09:20:44 PM
I believe this is the car.

(https://forums.cadillaclasalle.club/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm6.staticflickr.com%2F5188%2F5769422661_4043d0a104_b.jpg&hash=64796949c0036e043f2e44cf003912703a403414)
(https://forums.cadillaclasalle.club/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm3.staticflickr.com%2F2002%2F5769423711_55d54b4b3c_b.jpg&hash=c1890e1d3f4f93d40a2322ee095e707c10a21b08)
(https://forums.cadillaclasalle.club/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm3.staticflickr.com%2F2343%2F5769426463_1d815db30b_b.jpg&hash=85f401f1677c4813cb60832e503c648fb95b6776)
(https://forums.cadillaclasalle.club/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm6.staticflickr.com%2F5061%2F5769966316_92afcc546b_b.jpg&hash=531ee2c4256bf7063ffbef6b10181bdca9bbdc23)
(https://forums.cadillaclasalle.club/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm4.staticflickr.com%2F3326%2F5769963524_5a005a8747_b.jpg&hash=bdc629cb3437e594b9e766bcc10e5102fc3d9594)
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621 on September 01, 2012, 09:47:30 PM
What's even more remarkable is that the seller apparantly had no idea what the car is. How often does that happen in this day & age?

I keep finding more special features with each additional pic. If only the guy who photographed the thing got a shot of the damn data plate. No doubt, we'll get to see it someday...when it's been refurbished and bearing an extra digit in the price tag.

Thanks for posting these. 
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: Davidinhartford on September 01, 2012, 10:01:32 PM
eric,

   I didn't see the Craigslist ad you posted.   Did you get any pics from it?   
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621 on September 01, 2012, 10:28:27 PM
I just tried it Dave; it's still an active listing. However I did save the pics if you're unable to view them. Your pics were much more helpful.
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: Davidinhartford on September 01, 2012, 10:38:09 PM
I just get : This posting has been deleted by its author when I click the link you posted.
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: Bob Hoffmann CLC#96 on September 01, 2012, 11:24:59 PM
Guys,
I asked him for a pic of the data plate. He responded the cars sold. I asked him if I could still get a pic. He has not responded. That was this afternoon.
Bob
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: Davidinhartford on September 01, 2012, 11:43:39 PM
Well, if they (Cadillac design studio) took a stock 61 convertible and reworked it with 62 preview features and some custom touches would they make a new plate for it?   
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: Rich S on September 02, 2012, 12:24:12 AM
Doesn't Ericdev's Motorama picture show the car on display with 1962 model Cadillacs? It is a unique part of Cadillac history, and I hope it is brought back to its original beauty!
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: Landyachtcaptain on September 02, 2012, 12:57:15 AM
What was the asking price?
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: R Schroeder on September 02, 2012, 08:05:56 AM
$18,000.00
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621 on September 02, 2012, 11:22:09 AM
Sorry- apparantly the ad had remained on my computer's cashe which is why it kept coming up for me. Refreshing the link eliminated it. Here is the original ad I had copied:


"Only 1450 Cadillac Eldorado Biarritz convertibles were produced. It is estimsated that only 247 are remaining making this Cadillac a very unique vehicle. It has been stored in a garage since 1973. The exterior and interior are very clean. However, this is a car for someone whom wants to put alot of love and work to restore. Everything on it is original including the tires. It has 38,000 original miles. There is antidotal evidence that this Caddilac once belonged to Walter Hagen, the famous golfer. I will be in Florida from August 26 through August 29, 2012 to show the car. I am an anxious seller but rather firm on the price. It is a great value for the right buyer.

$18,000"

**I think the guy has been bombarded with messages informing him the car is a one-off Motorama concept car. Some people also told him it's a COPO car which of course, it is not. He probably doesn't want to know about that now that he's realized he undersold the car. I know a few guys from the 61-62 Cadillac Owner's Group contacted him as well. There had been a phone # with the original ad which got removed within a day or so.

I wonder what VIN# would've been used to register the vehicle since it has obviously been driven. I like the fact that it still has period Michigan license plate. There's no way this could've been an aftermarket job: A customizer would never have created a car that did not have reverse lamps. Also I do not believe these are the wheels the car had on at the show. The show car appears to have had something else. The hubcaps on the car are just stock black 1962 wheelcovers- that would not have been the case when the car had been on display.

Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: rwchatham CLC 21892 on September 02, 2012, 12:14:34 PM
Anyone have the phone number or email info from the original add? If you do please email it to me. Thanks
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: jagbuxx #12944 on September 02, 2012, 12:23:40 PM
Ericdev,
Looks like reverse lamps were in-betweeen the 2 round tail lamps.
Cars certainly looks like all the details were GM production quality, the interior, console etc.
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621 on September 02, 2012, 12:33:30 PM
The "reverse lamps" looked like stainless steel filler pieces on my end. I stand corrected.   ;D
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: g27g28 on September 05, 2012, 04:08:54 PM
Has anyone found out where this car went?  I need to start looking on Craigslist more often as I live in Orlando and could have gone and looked at this car.  David's pictures are different from the Craigslist posting, why is that?  I guess the next step would be to contact the towing company and see if they will give out any information. Look at the attached picture I came accross, over the top of the Jaguar in the front of the pic.  Certainly looks like this car from the back. 
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621 on September 05, 2012, 06:50:57 PM
Here's a link to a short article on some the car's history.



http://psautomobilist.blogspot.com/2011/08/biarritz-for-bill.html
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: rwchatham CLC 21892 on September 05, 2012, 07:02:38 PM
I have spoken to the new owner about buying the car and he insists it is not for sale. Bummer.
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621 on September 05, 2012, 07:14:41 PM
At least it appears to have a good home with one who understands what the car is and will not do something foolish with it. By way of interest, the car has a stock 61 VIN & does not have a special data plate or any special markings. It is the data plate is also stock 1961 Eldorado Biarritz however the owner is certain the alterations could not have been the work of an aftermarket customizer shop but of a "deep-pocketed" auto manufacturer as he puts it. I strongly advised he begin his research by ordering the historical package from GM Heritage.  Hopefully that will tell us more.
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: N Kahn on September 05, 2012, 07:21:35 PM
High folks, I am the new caretaker of the car and it isn't for sale. I'm not 100% certain it is the 1962 Chicago Auto Show car but the picture in the book of the show's history that sealed the deal for me to take the plunge and if turns out not to be I'll be ecstatic regardless.
There are parts on the car that are unique and unlike any others I've ever seen, and I think they couldn't have been made even by the most talented customizer.
I will put up pictures very soon.
I'm very happy to make your acquaintance, gentlemen.
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: N Kahn on September 05, 2012, 07:24:22 PM
BTW, the trunk key is missing but you can see inside it, it has fiberglass parade boots for the top and a spare tire with a leather cover just like the interior, it is my hope the original wheel and tires are under it.
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621 on September 05, 2012, 07:31:27 PM
Wouldn't that be sweet.

Welcome to the CLC forum as well Nadeem. You're sure the spotlight of all the Cadillac forums today. Nothing like starting off with a bang!

Your homework assignments are as follows: Order the Historical Package and #2, join the CLC! lol!

We'll be looking forward to hearing everything there is to know about your car's history. No doubt, many here will be able to offer assistance as well.

Eric
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: rwchatham CLC 21892 on September 05, 2012, 07:49:39 PM
A little suprised by the cowl tag not having an so designation. If it was infact built by the gm styling division it should of had a so in the tag for special order. There is a corvette dealer that has a corvette from the chicago show and it has an so in the tag.  The build sheet will be the deciding factor.
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: Davidinhartford on September 06, 2012, 08:21:45 AM
Congratulations on the purchase!

We eagerly await photos of it.    So far we've only seen glimpses of it.    Would love to see a full view of it, especially the front 3/4 view.

Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: g27g28 on September 06, 2012, 08:43:24 AM
Nadeem congratualtions on the car.  Is the car still in Florida?  I would love to look it over if it is still here.
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: N Kahn on September 06, 2012, 09:50:21 AM
I've sent my info to the GM Heritage Center, I'll share info as soon as I get it.
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621 on September 06, 2012, 10:45:14 AM
I'm sure that'll make for very interesting reading. One of the most important tasks will be to positively establish the car was the one appearing in the vintage Motorama photo. 

Agreed with Dave, a frontal view of the car would be most appreciated as it's the only major area of the car we haven't seen yet.
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: N Kahn on September 06, 2012, 10:54:47 AM
There was no Motorama in 1961, there was a New York Auto Show and they usually ran concurrently, the pics I've seen of the car (if it is this car) are from the Chicago Auto Show of 1962, there's a book called The Greatest Show On Earth that has its history, it's a must buy for all auto enthusiasts.

The two vintage pics on this thread are both from the 1962 Chicago Auto Show, coincidentally one of my favorite cities.
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: Brian Laurance on September 06, 2012, 12:10:47 PM
There was indeed a 1961 Motorama, and this was the final year for the event.  I will contact David Temple, author of the GM Motorama book, and ask him to add to the topic here if he has any knowledge of whether the car was displayed at the 1961 Motorama.
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: N Kahn on September 06, 2012, 01:17:40 PM
My mistake, I meant to write 1962. From the info I was given it was supposedly shown at the New York Auto Show in 1962, never at a Motorama. It struck me odd that a car that's a 1961 in the back and 1962 up front would be shown in 1962, last year's ideas wouldn't go over well with the buying public.
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: Davidinhartford on September 06, 2012, 01:56:42 PM
Since it is essentially a 1961 car,  I would venture it is a Design Studio study vehicle to try out different styling themes for future production.    So why not roll it out at the 1962 Auto show in Chicago and get feedback from visitors?    We know now that the open rear wheels did go into production on the 64 Eldorado.

Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: Bob Hoffmann CLC#96 on September 06, 2012, 02:40:44 PM
Guys,
Maybe I'm missing the point here. The car is a 1961 with some 1962 & beyond features. It would be logical to show it in 1961. Right? In 1962 they would be showing a car with with 1963 & beyond features. What year was the photo taken that was posted some time ago?
Bob
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: g27g28 on September 06, 2012, 05:00:30 PM
The car was shown at the 1962 Chicago autoshow.  There is a website dedicated to the show and it shows that car under the 1962 views.  The car may have started as a 61 but the front view looks like it has a 62 grille installed.  I also came across another photo which just happens to be color and if you look at the picture and the attached caption underneath the car was painted gold.  It's hard to see but it's gold.
This is the caption :
In its second year at the new McCormick Place, the Chicago Auto Show continued to dazzle show goers with it bright open design and wide aisles. This rare color view catches a corner of the Cadillac display with a 1902 Runabout on the turntable. Behind a pair of 1962 Cadillacs on the floor is a special Cadillac Eldorado convertible with its attendant spokeswomen. Nearby are Buick, Oldsmobile and Rambler displays.
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621 on September 06, 2012, 06:53:50 PM
I just saw a pic of the front of the car. The grille is unique- similar to, but not stock '62 Cadillac.

It seems odd that an event showcasing '62 cars in general would've been held in 1962. In any case, it is confirmed that Nadeem's car was built the last week of November 1960- as witnessed by the build code 11E on the data plate. It seems more logical to me the show would've taken place sometime in 1961.
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: Series75 on September 06, 2012, 08:26:28 PM
Bob,
Whether these shows took place in late '61 or 'early '62 the car does highlight minimally some '63 style points.  Raised Hood, with what appears as the '63 tight V&Crest or is that a wreath & crest?  Also the interior wood panels resemble the 1963's. 
When you magnify the show photos on the turntable the passenger side sure looks wavy.  Odd.  What wheels and tires are on the car back in 61-62, wires or ? 
Tom CLC6866
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: INTMD8 on September 06, 2012, 10:31:57 PM
Awesome car, I'm looking forward to learning more about it :)
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: N Kahn on September 06, 2012, 10:48:47 PM
I have a very strong affection for unrestored survivor cars, which this one is, but it does have areas of damage that are beyond patina and if left unchecked will deteriorate further. What I want to do this car is to get it running and then do spot repairs which minimally affect the condition the rest of the car is in.
The hood molding is made of pot metal and is in poor condition with peeling and pitted chrome, also the front bumper has been hit and is cracked right in the middle, the repair of both will result in them being beautifully shiny thereby making them stick out like sore thumbs.

What to do?
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: 62droptop on September 06, 2012, 11:03:47 PM
you could have the chrome shop not polish so much and leave a more satin finish,no?
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: 76eldo on September 06, 2012, 11:40:33 PM
I think if the condition of the paint and chrome is such that it really detracts from the appearance of the car, I would repaint and rechrome it and bring it back to what it looked like when GM was using it as a show car.

Joe Bortz has totally restored many Motorama cars and gets respect and accolades for his efforts.  Taking a significant historical vehicle and putting it back to it's original appearance, exact color and so on would be what this car deserves.

Looking at the photos in this thread, it clearly needs a new top, some repair on the quarterpanel, and paint, and it's quite possible that it's been repainted already.  You won't know until you start doing some sanding.  To leave the car like this would be a shame.

Taking an all original car with only minor imperfections and tearing it apart and restoring it is a bad thing, but if your car needs work, I say make it look right.

Brian
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: N Kahn on September 07, 2012, 06:38:28 AM
Joe Bortz' cars are far more significant than this car for one, and they were found in far worse condition, some literally sawed into pieces with no drivetrains, chrome, trim or interiors, this car is 100% complete.

At the very least I'd like to show her as found on the first go round and then I'll make a decision as to what to do.
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621 on September 07, 2012, 10:15:31 AM
The most important thing is to stabilize any rust so that it will not progress resulting in further damage. It's apparant that the car already had been refinished so there wouldn't be any great loss to originality by refreshing the exterior. The chrome, grillework and all exterior trim should also be addressed at the time the painting is done which will all need to be removed anyway. An able & qualified chrome shop will be able to sort the front bumper crack as well and I agree with Brian, it's probably best to have it done by an expert in one-off cars. Being a unique assembly, it would be unwise to chance having it restored by anyone else. 
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: INTMD8 on September 07, 2012, 11:20:50 AM
Quote from: Nadeem on September 06, 2012, 10:48:47 PM
I have a very strong affection for unrestored survivor cars

As do I.

If it was mine I would leave it original/unrestored if it could be brought back to 85%+ condition just by cleaning and mild restoration. (sympathetic restoration)

In this case, with the paint/chrome and top damage I would just do a complete resto.

Just my opinion.
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: N Kahn on September 07, 2012, 12:44:53 PM
Trust me, I am more than capable of restoring this car, including repairing the front bumper, I have taken a 56 Chevy wagon three piece bumper welded it into a one piece, closed the bumper bolt holes and had it chromed by Spacecoast Plating, who are the best.
I cannot do the top or upholstery.
I've been doing this stuff for a long time and I'm not letting it out my hands and into a shop.
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621 on September 07, 2012, 01:13:35 PM
Well that's even better you can do that kind of work yourself. I could only wish I had talents like that!  ;D

Sounds like the car found the right home.
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: 76eldo on September 07, 2012, 01:20:36 PM
Nadeem,

I apologize if my post sounded like I was trying to tell you what to do with your car.  This board is really helpful and a great place to come for info.

What I was saying is that the top looks pretty old and the window is cloudy.  Making the car drivable and keeping dry if you get caught in the rain would be a concern of mine, and the rust blister would bother me.  But, just obtaining a car like this is a major thing, and I wish you the best with it.

Brian

Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: N Kahn on September 07, 2012, 01:40:15 PM
The top is shot and there is bare steel under that wheel arch blemish which needs to be addressed. The car has had a repaint, there's no doubt about it and I am willing to do a bare metal refinish. The bumpers have no rust outs and will be a  piece of cake to get re-chromed but will cost plenty.
The only parts that's really going to be a challenge is the passenger side aluminum rocker decoration, it is mangled up by the door and it will be hard to repair, I'm sure there's a shop that specializes in this kind of stuff that can handle it.
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: N Kahn on September 07, 2012, 01:43:38 PM
I'm going to post some pics from today, I put a battery in the car and everything works, including the clock, trunk release and the top, which works very smoothly. The power antenna and blower motor are not working, the car turns over too.
(https://forums.cadillaclasalle.club/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi42.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fe327%2FRumblernads%2Feldo10.jpg&hash=18e97ca680a82237f84645dd5f54fd5284894854)
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(https://forums.cadillaclasalle.club/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi42.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fe327%2FRumblernads%2Feldo6.jpg&hash=66e4853be2b6bb5ff43ba9a1c6a6c312457f5235)
(https://forums.cadillaclasalle.club/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi42.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fe327%2FRumblernads%2Feldo5.jpg&hash=0d4c69e67fa248f071dc947ee5121fcd47750be4)
(https://forums.cadillaclasalle.club/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi42.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fe327%2FRumblernads%2Feldo4.jpg&hash=6d1668958f2c10885b9452cd71f8931324bc70f0)
(https://forums.cadillaclasalle.club/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi42.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fe327%2FRumblernads%2Feldo3.jpg&hash=6f3644bb64de7f6a658457f7823045b0dacdc5d1)
(https://forums.cadillaclasalle.club/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi42.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fe327%2FRumblernads%2Feldo1.jpg&hash=818c1eec3e69269dfb4d271cac2bc5aab67fdb0c)
(https://forums.cadillaclasalle.club/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi42.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fe327%2FRumblernads%2Feldo2-1.jpg&hash=6ccd98c882a56dafb0a5c83e94fb74c4e27697a1)
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: 76eldo on September 07, 2012, 01:47:03 PM
Really cool car.
What year did they stop making the hard boots for Cadillac convertibles?

That hard boot may be a one-off piece too!

Brian
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: N Kahn on September 07, 2012, 01:48:17 PM
Here's my flickr photostream. I'm going to take pics with a real camera very soon and post them, these are cell phone ones.

Thanks for all the kind words and encouragement, I hope to learn a lot from you gentlemen.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/66732932@N03/
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: Davidinhartford on September 07, 2012, 03:07:05 PM
Excellent!    I am so glad it will be restored.     ;D
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: rwchatham CLC 21892 on September 07, 2012, 04:02:14 PM
Cool looking car really like the custom touches. I see it being called a concept car in a proto type car which it is not.  It is possibly a styling design car That GM used to get feedback on. The problem is That the previous owner and his father tried to document the car for years with no luck. The cars gm customize back then all have something in common. They all have S O On the trim tag for shop order And the build sheet will specify for factory or show use. So since this car has no S O on the tag what happens if the build sheet comes back as ordinary ? What is it then ?
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: N Kahn on September 07, 2012, 04:08:59 PM
Quote from: rwchatham CLC 21892 on September 07, 2012, 04:02:14 PM
Cool looking car really like the custom touches. I see it being called a concept car in a proto type car which it is not.  It is possibly a styling design car That GM used to get feedback on. The problem is That the previous owner and his father tried to document the car for years with no luck. The cars gm customize back then all have something in common. They all have S O On the trim tag for shop order And the build sheet will specify for factory or show use. So since this car has no S O on the tag what happens if the build sheet comes back as ordinary ? What is it then ?

There may still be an SO under the front seat, if it isn't there, then so be it, the car's still something special. I've ordered a build sheet I'll let you know what comes up.
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: rwchatham CLC 21892 on September 07, 2012, 06:22:39 PM
Just looked at the flicker pics, surely has been repainted at some time, can see the over spay on the door jamb parts, trim tag etc. Also can see the different shade where the paint is cracking off. In the one photo it looks like you can see the outline where the light was mounted in the fin and filled in , can you see the outline or is it just the photo. Do you have a picture of the undersides of the boot pieces ? How much rust is in the floors and inner rockers ? I am with you on the original cars but this one needs a frame off restoration.
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: Ralph Messina CLC 4937 on September 07, 2012, 06:31:15 PM
Hi Nadeem,

Congratulations on your purchase. I wouldn’t buy lottery tickets any time soon as it appears you’ve recently hit the jackpot.

You’re correct that the trim will be the most problematic part of any restoration you under take. The lower rocker is similar to the rocker on the ’65 Riviera GS. If it is extruded aluminum with a bright anodized finish it can be repaired and straightened with nominal work. The problem you may have is with chips in the ribs. They can’t be filled by welding because the subsequent anodizing will make the repairs stand out. If necessary you can fill the surface with body filler, sand to shape and paint it with a silver wheel paint. The black areas in the grooves are best covered with 3M black trim tape. I’ve just used this process on a ‘vette rocker and unless you feel the surface you can’t tell it’s painted.  If you consider having the work done professionally contact me directly at  ralph@rrrclc.org  . I can provide the name for an excellent craftsman at very reasonable cost. I hesitate to post it because the webmasters  sometimes frown on postings about vendors.

Whatever you do to the car, please take “too many” pictures and notes. I’m confident there will be old car writers and publications knocking on your door.

Ralph
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: Quentin Hall on September 07, 2012, 06:32:29 PM
G'day Nadeem,
                 Well done on picking up this up. Whether or not has SO on the tag there is no question that it is something special and that the modifications present were performed directly or under the hand of Cadillac styling.  In the short term, I would do nothing in terms of restoration other than preservation; tending to things like brakes, electrical , safety  until you have documented and gathered all the information (and cash) that you can find. You hardly want to pull a car like that apart without very carefully thinking about it as it could easily be a six figure resto to put it back again. I should know I have had a two 53 Eldos apart for nearly 10 years as my hobby evolved and other projects came up.
        Certainly some of the cosmetics could be addresssed but (as we have all found) one thing tends to lead to another and very easily you can end up with a car in 5000 pieces and a minimum 5000 man hr undertaking.   
       Your car has survived this long together so I think it is worth preserving that integrity for as long as possible to sort out all the unique details.  The parade boot is very interesting as 1960 was the last factory parade boot and the one on your car has  unique 61 styling.  I also like the fully covered bucket seats and filled fins. It will be interesting to see how the modifcations were performed on things like the hood. Was it a new stamping or was it built up in sheetmetal over an original hood. Same goes for things like the bumper overriders. Are they stamped or cast. All these little stories will reveal themselves in time.
        There is no question that it would be stunning fully restored . But equally it is none the less stunning as it sits.
        Regards. Q
         
       
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: N Kahn on September 07, 2012, 08:06:26 PM
Quentin, the hood appears to be a fresh stamping, there is a reinforcing skin. There isn't enough light to really see inside the fins to tell if they're filled, I think they are, hopefully they were welded in and hopefully not ust merely leaded. The lower bumper might well be cast, I think it's steel but it might not be, I haven't checked with a magnet, the chrome is peeling off of it as it does on poorly prepped aluminum. The hood bar is cast for sure and is peeling very badly. What I thought was rust separation on the hood edge is actually the chrome lifting off the hood molding.

R. Waligora, you should be lucky I didn't accept your persistent offers or you might have ended up with an 'ordinary' car that needs a six figure restoration. Your opinions of a car you haven't even seen are somewhat presumptuous. Your attempts to discourage me are not working.

Ralph, I have ribbed aluminum trim on my 66 Riviera also that are involved factory pieces, the ones on here are just lengths of extrusions cut and rounded to fit, there are no caps or anything and they are screwed on with visible hardware, and they look very much like tacked on afterthought. Also Ralph, someone told me that other than the center caps, the turbine style wheelcovers on the Corvette are the same as the Riviera, is this true?

I will take endless pictures.

Luckily there is very little stainless steel on this car, the 59 El Camino I'm just about finished with has miles and it took me untold hours to straighten and polish.

I found the missing passenger side fender to headlight rubber filler, but it is cracked and perished, the driver's side isn't long for this world and both will have to made from scratch.
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: 76eldo on September 07, 2012, 08:46:05 PM
I think that the custom Parade Boot (and I did think 60 was the last year too) seals the deal for me that this car was a factory custom used for shows and display.  No one could make a boot like that other than the factory.

Quite a find.

Brian
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: N Kahn on September 07, 2012, 08:57:10 PM
Quote from: 76eldo on September 07, 2012, 08:46:05 PM
I think that the custom Parade Boot (and I did think 60 was the last year too) seals the deal for me that this car was a factory custom used for shows and display.  No one could make a boot like that other than the factory.

Quite a find.

Brian

We shall see, it also has an upholstered boot.

I can take close ups of the parade boot clasps to see if they're like any earlier factory ones, they are chrome plated die cast.
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: Ralph Messina CLC 4937 on September 07, 2012, 09:24:04 PM
Quote"Also Ralph, someone told me that other than the center caps, the turbine style wheelcovers on the Corvette are the same as the Riviera, is this true?"

Nadeem,
I'm not sure I understand the question. I did the aluminum rocker panels as a favor for a friend.... who is doing me a favor on my Eldorado. I'm not a 'vette guy and can't visualize the turbine wheels you mention.

I've been looking at the pics you've posted and I’m amazed at what an extraordinary find. In addition to the '50s Motorama "dream cars",  GM typically built show or theme cars for every annual show. They were usually production cars with special styling modifications to preview forthcoming styling trends. Other than the ’56 Maharini, the ’58 Rain Car and one ’57 Eldorado 4 dr Sedan Seville,  I’m not aware of any other styling survivors. Not long ago we had numerous questions on this board asking what became of the '64 Cadillac Florentine coupe, which is just one that’s unaccounted for. I suspect most ended up with some GM executive and then passed into the general public when it was a used car. It must have been nice to be a Prince in GM during those days. You’ve got something really special……Enjoy it.


Ralph
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: The Tassie Devil(le) on September 07, 2012, 09:28:03 PM
G'day Nadeem,

You have an email that needs to be attended to.

Bruce, >:D
CLC Message Board Administrator
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: N Kahn on September 07, 2012, 09:30:31 PM
Quote from: Ralph Messina CLC 4937 on September 07, 2012, 09:24:04 PM

Nadeem,
I'm not sure I understand the question. I did the aluminum rocker panels as a favor for a friend.... who is doing me a favor on my Eldorado. I'm not a 'vette guy and can't visualize the turbine wheels you mention.

I've been looking at the pics you've posted and I’m amazed at what an extraordinary find. In addition to the '50s Motorama "dream cars",  GM typically built show or theme cars for every annual show. They were usually production cars with special styling modifications to preview forthcoming styling trends. Other than the ’56 Maharini, the ’58 Rain Car and one ’57 Eldorado 4 dr Sedan Seville,  I’m not aware of any other styling survivors. Not long ago we had numerous questions on this board asking what became of the '64 Cadillac Florentine coupe, which is just one that’s unaccounted for. I suspect most ended up with some GM executive and then passed into the general public when it was a used car. It must have been nice to be a Prince in GM during those days. You’ve got something really special……Enjoy it.


Ralph


I thought you were a 'vette guy too. I'll take really good pictures of the rocker trim for you and you can assess the damage. It almost looks like it was caught on a garage door or something, it's not really damaged elsewhere.

Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: N Kahn on September 07, 2012, 09:34:50 PM
Quote from: The Tassie Devil(le) on September 07, 2012, 09:28:03 PM
G'day Nadeem,

You have an email that needs to be attended to.

Bruce, >:D
CLC Message Board Administrator

Where?
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: rwchatham CLC 21892 on September 07, 2012, 09:47:06 PM
Nadeem, you misunderstood me, I never called the car ordinary. I said if it comes back with an ordinary build sheet.  Without the build sheet or the trim tag showing it was built by gm it will be hard to document gm actually built it. In the old car hobby documentation is everything. With no documentation a customizer could have built the car for a customer that wanted to duplicate the show car after seeing it at the show. Google 62 chicago auto show and see the corvettes that were done by gm for the show that have been located and the tags cleary state the s.o. on them.
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: The Tassie Devil(le) on September 07, 2012, 11:02:17 PM
Quote from: Nadeem on September 07, 2012, 09:34:50 PM
Where? 
G'day Nadeem,

You have been sent three emails requesting you comply with the Rules of Posting, regarding using your correct name, as in minimum of First Initial, and full Surname.

The emails were sent to the email address which you listed in your Profile, which you have hidden from the Membership, but is readable by the Administrators.

It would appear that if you haven't been receiving the emails, then your listed email address is incorrect, and requires correcting.

Trust you understand,

Bruce. >:D
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: Series75 on September 08, 2012, 07:13:21 AM
Browsing through Cadillac of the Sixties by Roy Schneider I see on page 81 a picture of a fiberglass full size rendering of the 1963 Eldorado.   Check out the Hood and its similarity to Nadeem's car.  Also what we can see of the hard boot looks as if it came from this car.  Finally it's interesting to note that this '63 mock up was built in 1961.  Was Nadeem's car in the same studio at the same time? 
Tom CLC#6866
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: N Kahn on September 08, 2012, 08:09:33 AM
Quote from: The Tassie Devil(le) on September 07, 2012, 11:02:17 PM
   
G'day Nadeem,

You have been sent three emails requesting you comply with the Rules of Posting, regarding using your correct name, as in minimum of First Initial, and full Surname.

The emails were sent to the email address which you listed in your Profile, which you have hidden from the Membership, but is readable by the Administrators.

It would appear that if you haven't been receiving the emails, then your listed email address is incorrect, and requires correcting.

Trust you understand,

Bruce. >:D

Will do, thank you.
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: N Kahn on September 09, 2012, 09:26:37 AM
Check out this photo, it's a very high quality one, you can zoom in and see the tinted plastic insert on the driver's sun visor. I can't make out the wheels and/or hubcaps


http://qrdestination.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/1962CadillacExhibit.jpg
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: The Tassie Devil(le) on September 09, 2012, 09:34:16 AM
Quote from: Nadeem on September 08, 2012, 08:09:33 AM
Will do, thank you.   
Are you actually receiving the emails that are being sent to you?

If not, then please check your email address that is in your Profile, as you are not complying with the Rules of Posting, and as such, run the risk of having your non-compliant postings being deleted.

Thanks,

Bruce. >:D
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: N Kahn on September 09, 2012, 10:07:22 AM
Bruce, it's a valid email, I'm not receiving any PMs though.
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: quadfins on September 09, 2012, 11:17:01 AM
The essential point here, is that the rules of posting require first name (or initial), and full last name. That is the message that has been sent several times. Forum moderators prefer to send private messages as behind-the-scenes reminders, but as those messages have not been getting through, it has been necessary to "go public". All you need to do is change your profile, or be sure that you include full name on your posts. No big problem...
Jim
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: N Kahn on September 10, 2012, 04:54:24 PM
Is this correct? Test. I hope so.
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: quadfins on September 10, 2012, 06:26:57 PM
Looks fine to me.

Have at it...

Jim
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: David King (kz78hy) on September 10, 2012, 08:17:27 PM
Great car.

After looking at the body tag, that car started life as a regular production car.  Now that is a early number (554) and I googled when the 1961 Chicago auto show was and it was Feb 18-26, 1961.  So there is a possibility that body was pucked out for a quick modification for that show.  There would be an additional tag added somewhere on the car noting the rework.  That would most likely serve as the assest tag for cost accounting while the car was in use by the corporation.  Most show cars do not to have production labels under the hood and accessories like spare tires and jacks, so those would have been added later if the car was transferred for retail sale.

Some details on the body look cobbled and not a normal planned show car construction.  Others look spot on for a one off show car details.  Mainly the interior items look like the real deal.

The paint tag on the door jam lists Imron as available and Dulux was used.  I was in auto body vocational school in 1979 and as I recall, Imron had just came out, expensive, catalyst paint.  Dulux was the cheapest paint of the four listed.  (at least that is what my 30+ year memory is telling me).  So the car was painted late 70's early 80's.

I wonder if at that time, a donor car was found (554) because the original was shot and the rare, one off parts were transferred over to this car.  Paint code 97 is Aspen Gold Poly so that would have been a good match.  The color chips for that look grayer than the gold shown, but that could be scanning and monitor differences.

All this is speculation on my part, other than the few researched facts.  Good looking car in any regard and should be a blast to wake up and enjoy.

All the best.

David
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: rwchatham CLC 21892 on September 10, 2012, 08:45:10 PM
David good observations. That is why the paper trail is vital . Without the paperwork or the build sheet noting that 554 was for company use it is very hard to prove that this is the actual car. Either way still a cool car, just a difference in value.
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: N Kahn on September 11, 2012, 12:47:58 AM
Quote from: David King  (kz78hy) on September 10, 2012, 08:17:27 PM
Great car.

After looking at the body tag, that car started life as a regular production car.  Now that is a early number (554) and I googled when the 1961 Chicago auto show was and it was Feb 18-26, 1961.  So there is a possibility that body was pucked out for a quick modification for that show.  There would be an additional tag added somewhere on the car noting the rework.  That would most likely serve as the assest tag for cost accounting while the car was in use by the corporation.  Most show cars do not to have production labels under the hood and accessories like spare tires and jacks, so those would have been added later if the car was transferred for retail sale.

Some details on the body look cobbled and not a normal planned show car construction.  Others look spot on for a one off show car details.  Mainly the interior items look like the real deal.

The paint tag on the door jam lists Imron as available and Dulux was used.  I was in auto body vocational school in 1979 and as I recall, Imron had just came out, expensive, catalyst paint.  Dulux was the cheapest paint of the four listed.  (at least that is what my 30+ year memory is telling me).  So the car was painted late 70's early 80's.

I wonder if at that time, a donor car was found (554) because the original was shot and the rare, one off parts were transferred over to this car.  Paint code 97 is Aspen Gold Poly so that would have been a good match.  The color chips for that look grayer than the gold shown, but that could be scanning and monitor differences.

All this is speculation on my part, other than the few researched facts.  Good looking car in any regard and should be a blast to wake up and enjoy.

All the best.

David

David, great sleuthing, but the car was shown at the 1962 Chicago Auto Show, not 1961, I perused my book, "The Greatest Auto Show On Earth" again and the displayed car has dual whitewalls and one off hub caps that could be mistaken for wires, I wish I had a scanner to capture this, it is the best picture I've found yet. In 1963 another mildly customized convertible was shown that has genuine wire wheels, possibly Daytons, they sure look like that to me. I dunno what the car really is, but getting to the bottom of it is like a murder mystery, it is the most fun I've had in messing around with old cars in my whole life.
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: N Kahn on September 11, 2012, 01:08:04 PM
Finally got the pics scanned from the book, The Greatest Auto Show On Earth.

Here you can clearly see the double whitewall tires exactly like the one in the trunk and these are hubcaps for sure, albeit custom ones that would be very difficult to duplicate.
(https://forums.cadillaclasalle.club/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi42.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fe327%2FRumblernads%2F1962caddy.png&hash=e015e364ad70b8e502e87b02d5a4bdae1e237c3f)

Here's a picture from the 1963 show showing a similarly mildly customized Eldorado with opened up rear wheelwells and real wire wheels, but not your typical Kelsey Hayes, these are much finer looking.
(https://forums.cadillaclasalle.club/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi42.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fe327%2FRumblernads%2F1963caddy.png&hash=ad7718d6da04096193f4289a1ee0894a778ef242)

I urge all of you to buy this book, it's terrific.
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: Davidinhartford on September 11, 2012, 01:33:21 PM
That is the best photo yet.   I don't have any doubt that yours is the auto show car.   Repaint or not.
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621 on September 11, 2012, 02:59:45 PM
I'm 99% convinced. I'll bet you're watching your mailbox real closely these days Nadeem!  ;D 

Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: N Kahn on September 11, 2012, 03:07:55 PM
Quote from: ericdev on September 11, 2012, 02:59:45 PM
I'm 99% convinced. I'll bet you're watching your mailbox real closely these days Nadeem!  ;D

Indeed I am Eric, how long does it take usually?

I'm pretty sure the numbers written on the backside of the trunk cardboards are the SO numbers.
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621 on September 11, 2012, 03:19:28 PM
They're usually pretty quick. Within 2 weeks last time I ordered a report but that was with Allied Vaughan, not GM Historical Services. BTW- I just remembered- you may want to pull the carpet up in the rear, driver's side. There's usually a paper glued on the carpet backing there. I think it's called the broadcast sheet.
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: g27g28 on September 11, 2012, 04:47:14 PM
I ordered mine from the GM heritage center this year.  She gave me the option to get them email or by regular mail.  I asked for both.  I had the email within a few days and the hardcopies within a week.
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: Bob Hoffmann CLC#96 on September 11, 2012, 04:55:21 PM
Greg, I have several questions.
#1 Which car did you submit?
#2 Did you give them the VIN?
#3 If you did, did you receive an invoice or a cars-built sheet or neither?
Thanks, Bob
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: g27g28 on September 12, 2012, 10:28:28 AM
Bob
I received the build sheet for my 1954 Coupe.  I sent the engine serial number which is the title number as well.  It shows what options the car was built with and where it was shipped.  I found it odd that there is no date on it.  It could be that there is one but some areas are washed out and hard to read.
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: Guidematic on September 12, 2012, 11:49:22 AM

The wire wheels on that '63 may be Borranni (sic?) wheels. Bill Mitchell seemed to be fond of them and used them on many of his customes.

Mike
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: David King (kz78hy) on September 12, 2012, 09:24:36 PM
That 1962 photo appears to be missing the rocker molding trim or the angle of the photo is off enough to not show it, but sure looks to be body color.

The body of the car is a 1961 according to your tag, so it would be odd to have that around so long to create a '62 show car.

Interesting for sure, the build sheet will be cool to see what is the deal on the 61-6367 body 554.

David
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: Davidinhartford on September 13, 2012, 07:02:51 AM
I don't think its odd.   This is the debut of the 62 models, so they cetainly couldn't use a stock 62 as a styling mule for 63 styling themes.

Remember, these were not concept or show cars.  These were styling excersises to try out new styling cues to see the publics reaction.   So it makes sense to me that they'd display a modified 61 at the 62 debut that features 63 styling ideas.
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: N Kahn on September 15, 2012, 07:04:42 PM
I got her home earlier today, I and my friend JT got her running in about twenty minutes, he even drove her a little bit, the brakes still have to be fixed, at the least wheel cylinders and the master cylinder need renewing.
There's a 5 digit code on the back of many of the trim pieces, it is 50110.
The lower front bumper is made out of fiberglass and is vacuum plated, it is split in multiple places but will not be difficult to repair.
The outer skin of the hood is fiberglass laminated to a steel inner structure.
The grille has been hit and is flattened in the middle, I plan on taking it out, taking it apart and straightening it, it doesn't appear to be a daunting task.
I found two Jack Nicklaus golf balls as well as a Traverse City Golf and Country Club pencil in the trunk which is hinting to the car once belonging to Walter Hagen, the story I was told.
The car is full of intriguing details that point to it being truly special the further I dig in.
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: The Tassie Devil(le) on September 15, 2012, 08:05:31 PM
Sounding more and more like you have a gem here.

Bruce. >:D
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: okccadman on September 16, 2012, 04:18:55 PM
Could that be "SO" instead of 50 on the stencils?
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: N Kahn on September 16, 2012, 05:46:45 PM
Found it under the spare tire cover SO 50110, I'll put up pics, the car is Special Order 50110.
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: N Kahn on September 16, 2012, 05:54:29 PM
Here's a video walk around of the car.
(https://forums.cadillaclasalle.club/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi42.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fe327%2FRumblernads%2Fth_GEDC0043.jpg&hash=acc23b30f64cc0b1a20e5f916d67757d4e65f4ab) (http://s42.photobucket.com/albums/e327/Rumblernads/?action=view&current=GEDC0043.mp4)
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: N Kahn on September 16, 2012, 06:00:28 PM
I put the parade boot on, the car looks spectacular with it .
My son and I washed her, polished all the chrome and generally spiffed her up a bit and took her for a ride around the block. The water pump is leaking so we couldn't go too far. She drives beautifully, smooth as silk, shifts on the spot, the snow tires that are on it feel flat spotted from sitting in the same place for years.
(https://forums.cadillaclasalle.club/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi42.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fe327%2FRumblernads%2FGEDC0034.jpg&hash=3054296116065409abff3eba087f821d6e3d6e86)
(https://forums.cadillaclasalle.club/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi42.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fe327%2FRumblernads%2FGEDC0033.jpg&hash=909b7f752e017708587aa527e2367cd616fa8a90)
(https://forums.cadillaclasalle.club/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi42.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fe327%2FRumblernads%2FGEDC0030.jpg&hash=d3b0b5e11fd92b8b46eaf23c49c3c94f703b34cf)
(https://forums.cadillaclasalle.club/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi42.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fe327%2FRumblernads%2FGEDC0029.jpg&hash=57b1a141818c1e95800079492b0dc16c9b25821a)
(https://forums.cadillaclasalle.club/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi42.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fe327%2FRumblernads%2FGEDC0028.jpg&hash=579868f497ab059954ca5409546fcf67ea8ff21d)
(https://forums.cadillaclasalle.club/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi42.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fe327%2FRumblernads%2FGEDC0027.jpg&hash=21b6fe2335418616c219a05219e99f9e4725125d)
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: N Kahn on September 16, 2012, 06:04:54 PM
What I thought was the soft cover for the top is actually a bag for the parade boots, it is beautifully made
(https://forums.cadillaclasalle.club/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi42.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fe327%2FRumblernads%2FGEDC0046.jpg&hash=5df92bb0c5a74fa0cf697cd059b53cc61de308df)
(https://forums.cadillaclasalle.club/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi42.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fe327%2FRumblernads%2FGEDC0047.jpg&hash=bffe49cab29125c2c7ad2b22e5dcac7f11bd7454)
Here's the spare tire tire cover with the SO number on it, handcrafted by a trim shop employee by the name of Hudson, wherever you are Hudson, please know that 51 years after you made this there are people who still appreciate your craftsmanship.
(https://forums.cadillaclasalle.club/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi42.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fe327%2FRumblernads%2FGEDC0041.jpg&hash=c4fc8df6a05dbdda1011d54bff69f3099d8ddee7)
(https://forums.cadillaclasalle.club/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi42.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fe327%2FRumblernads%2FGEDC0042.jpg&hash=664cf70bf3bf7abbf344b7ce5f882420af030d96)
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: N Kahn on September 16, 2012, 06:11:57 PM
The hood is made of fiberglass as is the lower front bumper
Here's some detail pics.
The driver's side headlights are pre triangle shape logo T3s
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The hood ornament lights up
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Back of the bumper, you can see the somewhat crude build indicative of a one off special.
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The extruded aluminum pieces along the rockers are far more involved than I first thought, they aren't at all simple in their construction.
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Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: N Kahn on September 16, 2012, 06:14:06 PM
Fiberglass hood.
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Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: N Kahn on September 16, 2012, 06:19:27 PM
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I found two golf balls and a Traverse City Golf and Country Club pencil in the trunk hinting at the possibility that this car might well have belonged to Walter Hagen as the previous owner told me.
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Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: N Kahn on September 16, 2012, 07:07:17 PM
Home
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Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: David King (kz78hy) on September 16, 2012, 08:14:07 PM
The trim looks like the markings on my Eldorado Brougham interior pieces on the B-side.  Those were noted by body number on the EB's and I would assume your car as well.  The markings on your car were for a SO car in my opinion, but the body should also be that same number.  That is how they are tracked for assembly.  These are stall built cars, they do not go down the assembly line, so the production body tag does not really work here (554).  The unique bits came from a SO/show car build.  Not sure how to square the that production body number mixed in with a custom/show car.  That is not how the system works inside GM.  I work there today, and some of the processes are the same as 50 years ago, so that production body tag is a real mystery.

David
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: David King (kz78hy) on September 16, 2012, 08:23:03 PM
If your search comes back with a standard car, then you might want to order another one using that number on the interior.  XP-50110 in front of the numerical sequence was a format used for a long time, so the five digits after XP might be a way to get a hit and I used yours here as starting point.

The service that deals with the research is working with retail sales records, so a true experimental car would probably not show up there, but what the heck, you might get lucky.

Cool car none the less.

Good luck
David
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: Quentin Hall on September 16, 2012, 08:40:43 PM
   David,  I can't see the issue with the car being a regular production body number and the data tag not being represented by a SO code. It's obviously never been rebodied. The condition and milage and patina point to a little used original car. Obviously it was pulled from the line at some stage of production and mods were carried out in house on the interior and exterior. It shares the generic body of regular production cars as it is a mild custom not a one off body like for eg the Brougham Town car, El Camino or La Espada etc.
    Nadeen, I'd be trying to preserve this car rather than restore/renew. The overused term"barn find" is probably best shown on this car. Once you replace all the trim and paint and patina it would no doubt be stunning but there is something wonderful about seeing Hudsons name on the wheelcover . . . how do you emulate that?   Q 
PS Walter Hagan was a member of Traverse City Golf and Country Club. He also lived at the Book Cadillac Hotel in Detroit. He was probably in the country club "in crowd" with Harley and Bill . Those were the days.
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: N Kahn on September 16, 2012, 08:45:23 PM
Quote from: David King  (kz78hy) on September 16, 2012, 08:23:03 PM
If your search comes back with a standard car, then you might want to order another one using that number on the interior.  XP-50110 in front of the numerical sequence was a format used for a long time, so the five digits after XP might be a way to get a hit and I used yours here as starting point.

The service that deals with the research is working with retail sales records, so a true experimental car would probably not show up there, but what the heck, you might get lucky.

Cool car none the less.

Good luck
David

Having never owned a one off car and only my second Cadillac ever, I have no clue about the where and what of these things. The car isn't an absolute distinct show car like the Pontiac Club De Mer, but I have no doubt it is the 1962 Chicago Auto Show car, it seems really implausible that the one off pieces would be reattached to another chassis but I guess anything's possible. I really hope GM can help shed some light on to what it is I own.
All I know that today's short drive brought the memories of my 61 Sedan De Ville from 1986, a car I drove on a whim to New Orleans from Florida for my FIRST honeymoon.
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: David King (kz78hy) on September 16, 2012, 09:23:54 PM
Quentin,

That is whole reason why a production number does not make sense.  Those are are built at the production assembly plant and that body when through the normal ordering system of a dealer ordered car.  A special car might have a plant built body, but that would be considered a buck or non production car and handled with special paper work to get it shipped to the studio, proving grounds, pre-production operations, somewhere.  With that, it would be tracked under a special number, basically the account charged for the work/body.  So the body tag would be the unique number the job was ordered under and all the special parts tracked with it.  50110 was that number.

Back in the day, behind the scenes stuff happened and if that job (554) was a special custom ordered car prepared for the best golfer in the day, and to make it happen, the car had to appear at a show or two, then I could see that happening.  There should be a SO tag though to note that, and that is why this is a mystery to me.

The build sheet will be interesting to see on this.

Still confused, but that is OK.

David
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: Bob Hoffmann CLC#96 on September 16, 2012, 09:40:18 PM
David & others,
You keep referring to a "build sheet". Can someone please tell us what it is? A picture would be REAL nice. After I receive an answer, I'll post more on my take of Nadeems car.
Thanks, Bob
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: N Kahn on September 16, 2012, 09:45:35 PM
Quote from: Quentin Hall on September 16, 2012, 08:40:43 PM
   David,  I can't see the issue with the car being a regular production body number and the data tag not being represented by a SO code. It's obviously never been rebodied. The condition and milage and patina point to a little used original car. Obviously it was pulled from the line at some stage of production and mods were carried out in house on the interior and exterior. It shares the generic body of regular production cars as it is a mild custom not a one off body like for eg the Brougham Town car, El Camino or La Espada etc.
    Nadeen, I'd be trying to preserve this car rather than restore/renew. The overused term"barn find" is probably best shown on this car. Once you replace all the trim and paint and patina it would no doubt be stunning but there is something wonderful about seeing Hudsons name on the wheelcover . . . how do you emulate that?   Q 
PS Walter Hagan was a member of Traverse City Golf and Country Club. He also lived at the Book Cadillac Hotel in Detroit. He was probably in the country club "in crowd" with Harley and Bill . Those were the days.


My friend Brian, whose family owe a Corvette restoration shop is of the same opinion as you and and I. Obviously there are areas that are too damaged to be ignored but I think we I can fix those areas and still preserve the character of the car. I always gravitate towards the original cars at car shows, they are my favorite like the lines on a beautiful woman's face.
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: N Kahn on September 16, 2012, 09:51:49 PM
Dave, I don't think the car was built for Walter Hagen, I think he acquired it somehow, if indeed he ever did. Supposedly he donated it to his church before he died and that's where the previous owner got it. That's the story I got, I'll scan the paperwork and post it here.
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: 76eldo on September 16, 2012, 11:45:22 PM
I agree and retract my earlier post.  Cleaned up pretty well and if you can fix a few little things and keep the original patina it makes a lot of sense.

Really cool find there.

Brian
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: Guidematic on September 17, 2012, 12:53:55 AM

All I can say is WOW!

Mike
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: wrefakis on September 17, 2012, 09:13:36 AM
back in the day a a car like this could have been customized for a high profile client thru the zone,in this case detroit,then shown at the auto show prior to delivery to the customer,cars done at the plant has a shop order with an "so" code on the vehicle,if it was done at the plant that would be the case,done at an putside vendor thru the zone,your hidden numbers could be anything from an ro number to a stock number,see shop order for 59 eldo produced with custom paint for gm engineering use
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: N Kahn on September 17, 2012, 09:14:04 AM
Took this picture of her last night, that's water on the ground coming out of the water pump which I'll yank tonight and send off to get rebuilt.

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Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: Walter Youshock on September 17, 2012, 09:34:15 AM
I've been following this story since day one and I really am amazed by the whole thing!  This car is truly a treasure.

I notice it looks like it has 4 fog lights and the whole front end is 1962.  The seat design really looks like the 1962 Sixty Special-series "75" broadcloth pattern.

While the car did appear at the Chicago Auto Show, with photographic proof, I wonder if it wasn't originally intended to be a Show Car but could it have been a one-off for A Cadillac or GM executive (ala LeSabre) and the car was "borrowed" for the show circuit?  Tracing it back to the factory is only part of the story.  Finding the first titled state/owner might shed far more light on the history of this magnificent automobile.  Unfortunately, title searches aren't as easy today as they were years ago.  I was able to get a copy of the original title for my '57 through PA DMV but I'm not sure they still provide that service anymore.  Each state would be different.

I have a group of photos of a '57 convertible with cloth/leather interior and the Eldorado Brougham glove box and Eldorado hard boot.  The car was called "Allegre'" but I've never found anything else about it.
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: N Kahn on September 17, 2012, 10:10:29 AM
Quote from: Walter Youshock on September 17, 2012, 09:34:15 AM
I've been following this story since day one and I really am amazed by the whole thing!  This car is truly a treasure.

I notice it looks like it has 4 fog lights and the whole front end is 1962.  The seat design really looks like the 1962 Sixty Special-series "75" broadcloth pattern.

While the car did appear at the Chicago Auto Show, with photographic proof, I wonder if it wasn't originally intended to be a Show Car but could it have been a one-off for A Cadillac or GM executive (ala LeSabre) and the car was "borrowed" for the show circuit?  Tracing it back to the factory is only part of the story.  Finding the first titled state/owner might shed far more light on the history of this magnificent automobile.  Unfortunately, title searches aren't as easy today as they were years ago.  I was able to get a copy of the original title for my '57 through PA DMV but I'm not sure they still provide that service anymore.  Each state would be different.

I have a group of photos of a '57 convertible with cloth/leather interior and the Eldorado Brougham glove box and Eldorado hard boot.  The car was called "Allegre'" but I've never found anything else about it.

The front end is very reminiscent of the yet to be released 1962 but it actually isn't, the bumper and grille are unique and the hood is fiberglass laminated to the steel inner structure but it's more like a 1963 hood not a 1962. The steering wheel IS a 1962 put on the car 10 months before being put on the production models.

It's an odd specimen, that's for sure.
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621 on September 17, 2012, 10:12:15 AM
Quote from: Bob Hoffmann CLC#96 on September 16, 2012, 09:40:18 PM
David & others,
You keep referring to a "build sheet". Can someone please tell us what it is? A picture would be REAL nice. After I receive an answer, I'll post more on my take of Nadeems car.
Thanks, Bob

Here you are Bob. It's the build sheet for my '62 Coupe deVille.
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621 on September 17, 2012, 10:16:13 AM
Quote from: N Kahn on September 17, 2012, 10:10:29 AM
The steering wheel IS a 1962 put on the car 10 months before being put on the production models.

It's an odd specimen, that's for sure.

That's right, however the center hub medallion is unique and not used on any other production model as far as I can tell.

Hope that damn build sheet comes soon. I'm burning up with anticipation myself.

BTW- Thanks for posting all these other pics, Nadeem.
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: N Kahn on September 17, 2012, 10:29:52 AM
I've been waiting a long time, I don't know what's up.
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: Bob Hoffmann CLC#96 on September 17, 2012, 05:25:36 PM
Reply to Eric and others,
Thanks for posting. It's exactly what I expected. It's called a cars built sheet like  it says  right at the  top. The cars built sheet started out as a full sheet with about 26 cars listed in order by engine serial #. Now it's been reduced to one line & they even redacted the key #'s. Build sheet is Corvette speak. That's what comes to mind when someone has obtained the information. You've seen their reaction on the board. I just paid  $50 to AV for this??? And I can't understand the outlet code?? When build sheet is mentioned, people expect a LOT more than one line. Most of my research has been on 41 & earlier cars where you get a full invoice that tells everything.
I'm still unclear on exactly what you get from GMH & what does it cost?
HTH, Bob
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: N Kahn on September 17, 2012, 06:14:20 PM
Quote from: Bob Hoffmann CLC#96 on September 17, 2012, 05:25:36 PM
Reply to Eric and others,
Thanks for posting. It's exactly what I expected. It's called a cars built sheet like  it says  right at the  top. The cars built sheet started out as a full sheet with about 26 cars listed in order by engine serial #. Now it's been reduced to one line & they even redacted the key #'s. Build sheet is Corvette speak. That's what comes to mind when someone has obtained the information. You've seen their reaction on the board. I just paid  $50 to AV for this??? And I can't understand the outlet code?? When build sheet is mentioned, people expect a LOT more than one line. Most of my research has been on 41 & earlier cars where you get a full invoice that tells everything.
I'm still unclear on exactly what you get from GMH & what does it cost?
HTH, Bob


Well I paid 'em $50 and so far I've received absolutely nothing. I'm looking at the build sheets you guys posted up and I'm still bewildered.
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: Bob Hoffmann CLC#96 on September 17, 2012, 07:17:24 PM
Hi Nadeem,
I want to say that you have a wonderful car. I agree it is the show car. Please understand that we've seen a # of questionable cars including 59/60 Luvdg special being passed off as stying exercises or  Earl & Mitchell approved cars etc.
So... we're with you on waiting for the info to arrive. You've done a great job posting  pictures & sharing the car.
I just wanted to make you aware of the document you might get from AV. Let's hope it's a LOT more like the document Bill Rafakis posted.
HTH, Bob
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: N Kahn on September 17, 2012, 07:55:15 PM
I'm here to learn, what's the Luvdg Special, never seen that one?
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: Guidematic on September 17, 2012, 08:55:49 PM

That's the one with the TV in the dash, right?

Mike
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: Bob Hoffmann CLC#96 on September 17, 2012, 09:26:56 PM
Type LUVDG in the search box. Plenty of good reading .
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: gouldsom on September 17, 2012, 11:24:49 PM
Hi Guys
Following this unfolding story, with great interest here in New Zealand.
I'm glad I got the build sheet for my car, before all that privacy stuff. In those days they just gave you the whole page, I took the key numbers to my local locksmith, and he cut me the missing glovebox /trunk key, took em home and they worked perfectly, I was impressed.
Bill Refarkis even told me that the 59 Biarritz, that was ahead of mine still exists, said it was on his secret list, and Quentin Hall almost bought the Biarritz after mine one time.
Keep up the sleuthing, its a good story with some great photos, past and present.
Gee I wish someone could tell me who the first owner of my car was, I have a feeling it may be James Arness ( From Gunsmoke).
I do know it was originally owned by a semi famous "Western Star".
Richard
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: wrefakis on September 18, 2012, 09:41:27 AM
were i rsearching this car,the first thing i would do would be to try to get a copy of the auto show program,
next, i would look at the seat patterns,and lower trim and compare to other gm makes,the seat style and lower body trim look like 63 buick at quick glance,

next build record,sorry,what you will recieve will be EXACTLY whay you already have on your body tag; the example that i posted has a body tag with no paint or interior codes,just "SO 171" were you to see tis car,you would have no hope of knowing how it was produced

i am of the casual opinion that this was a zone or distric office custom done for a special client and shown at the show,cadillac factory display cars would have been noted as such in program literature,and factoory photos would exist
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: N Kahn on September 18, 2012, 10:47:19 AM
Just read the LUVDG saga, yipes, Florida has a lot of things to be held accountable for.
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621 on September 18, 2012, 01:24:47 PM
Quote from: Bob Hoffmann CLC#96 on September 17, 2012, 05:25:36 PM
Reply to Eric and others,
Thanks for posting. It's exactly what I expected. It's called a cars built sheet like  it says  right at the  top. The cars built sheet started out as a full sheet with about 26 cars listed in order by engine serial #. Now it's been reduced to one line & they even redacted the key #'s. Build sheet is Corvette speak. That's what comes to mind when someone has obtained the information. You've seen their reaction on the board. I just paid  $50 to AV for this??? And I can't understand the outlet code?? When build sheet is mentioned, people expect a LOT more than one line. Most of my research has been on 41 & earlier cars where you get a full invoice that tells everything.
I'm still unclear on exactly what you get from GMH & what does it cost?
HTH, Bob

Just to clarify Bob, the document that I had posted is a "Cars Built" sheet as opposed to a "Build Sheet"? And is there any way of obtaining the proper "Build Sheet"? I am assuming the Build Sheet is specific to a given vehicle.

Thanks, Eric
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: Eldorado Tex on September 18, 2012, 03:45:33 PM
Amazing what turns up on c-list
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: Richard Sills - CLC #936 on September 18, 2012, 04:32:04 PM
Here is my understanding of the "SO" or other special designations:

If the car is basically a standard car but has a non-standard trim feature, such as a paint color or interior trim, you will have a regular factory body plate, but the designation for the non-standard feature will indicate that it is non-standard.  For example, I saw a 1941 Cadillac with a factory special-order paint color, and the data plate said "SO" in the place where it would usually have a one or two-digit number to indicate the paint code.  I owned a 1967 Cadillac with a special-order interior, and its data plate said "000" in the place where you would ordinarily see a two-digit code for interior trim.   

But if the car is a special order car created by the GM styling studio, it would have another separate tag under the hood, on the firewall, in addition to the standard body tag.  This separate tag would have the "S.O." designation followed by the sequential number of the job and the date of the job.  I have such a car built in 1960, and the tag added by the Styling Studio says "S.O. 90681", followed by the date.   I have also seen a similar tag (identical to mine except for the numbers and the date) on a 1956 Motorama Cadillac that was one-of-a-kind.  If you look at the website "carofthecentury.com", you will see S.O. numbers of other special cars built by GM.

In the realm of one-of-a-kind cars, it is difficult to assert that they "always" did it a certain way, because it is possible that there were inconsistencies from time to time, depending on who was in charge of a particular project.  But in any event, I wanted to share the knowledge that I have picked up over the years on this subject.

Richard

Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: N Kahn on September 18, 2012, 04:43:50 PM
Great website, lots of amazing pictures. thanks Richard.

Unless I'm missing something I've found no other tags on the cowl, under the hood or anywhere, just that SO- 50551, that's it, if it exists it's either gone or it's very elusive.
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621 on September 18, 2012, 05:25:04 PM
Quote from: Richard Sills - CLC #936 on September 18, 2012, 04:32:04 PM
In the realm of one-of-a-kind cars, it is difficult to assert that they "always" did it a certain way, because it is possible that there were inconsistencies from time to time, depending on who was in charge of a particular project.

Richard

Excellent point Richard.
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: N Kahn on September 18, 2012, 08:16:39 PM
Here's the picture I got yesterday with the National Cherry Queen sitting in the car from an unknown year, note the US Royal dual whitewalls are still on the car as is the parade boot.
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Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: N Kahn on September 18, 2012, 08:18:57 PM
I can't get the picture any bigger
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Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: Davidinhartford on September 18, 2012, 08:31:22 PM
Well, it has a Michigan bicentennial (1976) license plate on it.  Plus that appears to be a 1977 GM B-body sedan behind it.
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: Bob Hoffmann CLC#96 on September 19, 2012, 12:34:32 AM
Reply to Eric & others,
I just Googled  Corvette build sheet. I don't think Cadillac had something like this in the 50's or 60's. It would be nice if Cadillac did have  them.
They did start leaving the small broadcast sheets in the cars starting in about 69. They are sort of a build sheet but not really. Maybe some one has  an earlier  one.
Again, I just don't want anyone getting disappointed in what they get from AV & searching for paperwork that doesn't exist.
HTH, Bob
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621 on September 19, 2012, 10:07:59 AM
I have found paper broadcast - build(?) sheet under the left rear carpet behind the front seat in another '62 I had owned. When I get a chance I'll check my present '62. Unfortunately they're difficult to remove without destroying them.
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: N Kahn on September 21, 2012, 10:19:13 AM
Here's scans of some paperwork that I got with the car. If any of you know any more about the Walter Hagen and Bing Crosby connection I'd love to hear about it.

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Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: Brian Laurance on September 21, 2012, 01:58:23 PM
Fascinating information!

While most aspects of the information included in the paperwork seem possible, the comments about 10-inch extensions to both the front fenders / hood and rear fenders leave me curious.  The side profile images of the car do not persuade me that the car is any longer than a standard '61 Eldorado.  Do you agree?
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: N Kahn on September 21, 2012, 02:27:58 PM
I think that a lot of the info is incorrect, it certainly isn't the first convertible with air conditioning. The front fenders do appear to be a smidge longer than stock, I wish I had a regular Caddy to compare it to, but the back end for sure isn't any longer.

Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621 on September 21, 2012, 03:13:03 PM
As far as I can see, the only difference in the front fenders is that the "skeg" begins much closer to the wheel opening than on stock 61/62 fenders. Obviously this had been done to provide to "break" between upper & lower part of the skeg for the special lower side trim. There is no way the fenders, or even the entire car is 10" longer than a stock 1961/1962 Cadillac. That would mean the car is 232" overall or 1" longer than a standard 1976 Cadillac.

*If you wish I could measure my front fenders- when I get it back. (It's out for upper control arm bushings)
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: N Kahn on September 21, 2012, 05:02:07 PM
Quote from: ericdev on September 21, 2012, 03:13:03 PM
As far as I can see, the only difference in the front fenders is that the "skeg" begins much closer to the wheel opening than on stock 61/62 fenders. Obviously this had been done to provide to "break" between upper & lower part of the skeg for the special lower side trim. There is no way the fenders, or even the entire car is 10" longer than a stock 1961/1962 Cadillac. That would mean the car is 232" overall or 1" longer than a standard 1976 Cadillac.

*If you wish I could measure my front fenders- when I get it back. (It's out for upper control arm bushings)

That would be great, thanks. I'm gonna go home and rebuild the front end on my El Camino, I'm putting dropped spindles and disc brakes on it too.
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: 76eldo on September 21, 2012, 06:02:32 PM
Just curious, What is a "regular" 61 Eldorado convertible worth in decent driver condition.  Nice interior, decent chrome, weak paint, running car.

Brian
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: N Kahn on September 21, 2012, 06:38:14 PM
I dunno, $20-30 Gs, there weren't many made, I think 1450 or so but there really isn't much difference between it and a series 62.
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621 on September 22, 2012, 09:44:04 AM
Quote from: 76eldo on September 21, 2012, 06:02:32 PM
Just curious, What is a "regular" 61 Eldorado convertible worth in decent driver condition.  Nice interior, decent chrome, weak paint, running car.

Brian

OCPG puts a #4 '61 Biarritz at $8,200; #3 at $18,450. A member of another Cadillac webpage paid $10K for a #4 '62 Biarritz last year.
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: N Kahn on September 26, 2012, 09:35:21 AM
I repaired the aluminum rocker molding that was bent, I also touched up the areas where the paint was blistering on the wheel arches. It looks pretty good and blends well with the rest of the car. It isn't perfect by any means but it's what needed to be done for what's in store for the car.
I'm waiting on my water pump so I can really drive her.

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Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: Series75 on September 26, 2012, 05:26:57 PM
Nice work!  Say looking at the pics a little closer, are those lower skegs on the front fenders bolted on?  They look like the ones on my 1961 Limo.  Second, has the steering wheel been painted gold with wear off on the facing edge.  Just curious how this cool car was put together.   BTW, those aluminium lower panels look similar to ones that were installed by Hearse / Flower car producers like Superior, M&M etc.  Maybe the source for new panels for you.  Thanks for the constant updates, we've not seen something like this before.  Tom CLC#6866
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: N Kahn on September 26, 2012, 06:19:32 PM
Quote from: Series75 on September 26, 2012, 05:26:57 PM
Nice work!  Say looking at the pics a little closer, are those lower skegs on the front fenders bolted on?  They look like the ones on my 1961 Limo.  Second, has the steering wheel been painted gold with wear off on the facing edge.  Just curious how this cool car was put together.   BTW, those aluminium lower panels look similar to ones that were installed by Hearse / Flower car producers like Superior, M&M etc.  Maybe the source for new panels for you.  Thanks for the constant updates, we've not seen something like this before.  Tom CLC#6866

I don't the skegs are bolted on, there's no way of knowing unless I pull the aluminum panels off, I don't think those panels were screwed on either, I think that was done in later years, it looks terrible, there must be some sort of clip holding them on from behind. The flower cars and hearses all had longer wheelbases, right? I think they're made just for this car.

Does anyone know where I can get a pattern made for the under fender moldings to cast a new pair in aluminum? I have the passenger side only, it's rough but there's enough left to build it up with bondo and use it as a mold, but I'm stumped as to how to make a left side from that.
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: Series75 on September 27, 2012, 03:44:08 AM
Exactly my point, maybe if you reach to the Professional Car Society club they can locate aluminum panels (nos?) which would certainly be longer for CC vehicles but could be cut down to fit.
As far as those lower front fender fins, is there a line between the fin (skeg) and the fender, could you slip a piece of paper in between?  Curiious  thx  Tom CLC#6866
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: Glen on September 28, 2012, 02:38:06 AM
I remember a ‘61 in the junkyard many years ago that was a Fleetwood or 75 series that had 1960 front fenders and the skeg was bolted on like the poster above is asking about.  Looked like they had too many 60 fenders left over and used them on the big car series.   
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621 on September 28, 2012, 09:46:07 AM
I'm a bit confused. Skegs cannot be unbolted and the only 1960 Cadillac that has them is the Eldorado Brougham. Exactly what part is being referred to here?
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: N Kahn on September 28, 2012, 11:01:05 AM
The skegs aren't bolted on, they are part of the fender, they have been extended to the very end of the fender to accommodate the aluminum trim.
I've never seen trim like this on a professional car, I looked at many photos on the web.
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621 on September 28, 2012, 11:17:40 AM
That's correct- those fenders are unique to that car. The forward location of the skegs was one of the first things I noticed about it. I assuming the others were confusing the term "skeg" with the lower body side trim which of course, is removable.
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: rwchatham CLC 21892 on September 28, 2012, 01:09:02 PM
So did the build sheet come back with any special designation?
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: N Kahn on September 28, 2012, 02:30:06 PM
Way more than that Ray, it is the factory car, I just got pics from GM, it was originally designated the Le Mans, later changed to Eldorado, it had a different grille, more like a 1961 then it was changed for the Chicago show, it also had single whitewall tires.
I'm beyond ecstatic.
I'm trying to convert the PDF files into jpeg to show you definitive proof about what car # 50115 is and its place in Cadillac history. I have much more to share but it will have to wait.
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Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: rwchatham CLC 21892 on September 28, 2012, 02:44:00 PM
Wow that is amazing! A little confused why the numbers were not used in the body tag though. Does the time frame match up for when car 554 was built and when they made the lemans?
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: N Kahn on September 28, 2012, 02:50:26 PM
The car was built in November, modified thereafter and shown in February of 1962.
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621 on September 28, 2012, 02:55:26 PM
 I take it the GM Heritage inquiry bore fruit in abundance. Truly remarkable. Looking forward to hearing the entire report.
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: N Kahn on September 28, 2012, 03:03:42 PM
The info came via someone who is connected, not GM, they have been of no help to me personally, it was all this gentleman's doing and I thank him enormously.
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: N Kahn on September 28, 2012, 03:32:56 PM
I hope this quiets the naysayers.
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The car # is 50110

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Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: Walter Youshock on September 28, 2012, 03:43:36 PM
Love to know what else is hidden in the GM archives.  I'd like to find out more about the '57 Allegre' convertible I have photos of.  Could you pass that on to your contact?

Wonder what the '62 Fleetwood Brougham would have been--possibly a vinyl topped 60 Special?

As for this example--no doubt it's the real deal.  Although the original design is great, those wheel covers are something I'd have changed to the stock version as well.

You are a very lucky man to have found such a treasure!
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: rwchatham CLC 21892 on September 28, 2012, 03:47:20 PM
Dont want to be a naysayers and do not get offended but that only proves some of the parts are from the so car. It still does not explain the so numbers not being on the tag. I think until you have documentation direct from GM explaining the tag there will always be doubts.
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: N Kahn on September 28, 2012, 03:49:41 PM
Quote from: rwchatham CLC 21892 on September 28, 2012, 03:47:20 PM
Dont want to be a naysayers and do not get offended but that only proves some of the parts are from the so car. It still does not explain the so numbers not being on the tag. I think until you have documentation direct from GM explaining the tag there will always be doubts.

In your mind, perhaps, but not mine.
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: rwchatham CLC 21892 on September 28, 2012, 04:00:45 PM
So would you mind showing what the build sheet from GM showed?
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: Ralph Messina CLC 4937 on September 28, 2012, 05:17:25 PM
Nadeem,

Those sheets are the "Holy Grail" of GM documents. They have been described, talked and argued about numerous times on this board, but not seen before. Each of the numbers represents a car or job that was built off line â€" not the assembly line - in a styling or engineering studio. One level below thse documents would be the specifics of each job in painful detail because it documents project expenses for the finance depart, who in turnneed to explain expenditures to auditors (company as well as IRS). If your friend at GM had anything to do with, or can authenticate the car, I would have him document what he knows and have it notarized. It will be a valuable addition to the car’s provenance. I believe you have enough documentation to say that the car is the real deal.

On a personal note I want to add to Walter’s comments. I’d love to see pics of some of the special styling of regular production cars like the ’62 Fleetwood Brougham…….I imagine a vinyl roof, writing trays and the broadcloth biscuit style interior. Can you convince him to run an ebay auction for 2 hours in his archives?

Ralph
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: rwchatham CLC 21892 on September 28, 2012, 05:33:52 PM
It would be more convincing if you had documentation from gm showing that car 554 was used to build 50110. A very interesting situation.
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: Walter Youshock on September 28, 2012, 05:36:14 PM
What also fascinates me is that this documentation covers several YEARS of cars.  The '63 Eldorado listed is probably the one Roy Schneider included a photo of in "Cadillacs of the Sixties".

Again, might some of these, outside of the styling bucks, gone into hands of GM execs and eventually the general public?  The streets of Detroit must have been an incredible sight--especially Clark!

I would doubt the '62 Brougham would have had the interior accents of the '66-'67.  Most likely the broadcloth interior--my personal favorite.  It probably had just a vinyl top to gauge the feeling of the public to offer it on the '63 Fleetwood and coupes.  Funny how it took until '65 for the vinyl-topped Sixty Special to be called "Brougham".

This car has not begun to reveal all its secrets.  Gives hope that there may be even more Special Editions out there.
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: 62droptop on September 28, 2012, 05:51:13 PM
Quote from: rwchatham CLC 21892 on September 28, 2012, 03:47:20 PM
Dont want to be a naysayers and do not get offended but that only proves some of the parts are from the so car. It still does not explain the so numbers not being on the tag. I think until you have documentation direct from GM explaining the tag there will always be doubts.

just give up already
why cant you just take it for what it is
we are not talking about apollo 13 here


for many cars 50 yrs old, unless you find someone that actually worked on it back then and kept photos etc, you may never get the documents that you are looking
i think he has enough proof and is very happy with the very special car he purchased
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: g27g28 on September 28, 2012, 07:03:41 PM
Nadeem
Looking forward to what other information you have received.   I have made up my mind and it is obviously the show car.  The Lake Mirror Classic car show is Oct 19th and 20th in Lakeland FL.  Any chance you will show the car there?
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: 76eldo on September 28, 2012, 07:35:07 PM
I think you have done a great job of uncovering the necessary info to show that the car is indeed a factory custom used in shows for Cadillac.  Great that the car has survived.  Stabilizing the condition of the car was a wise choice.

Good luck with the car and keep piling up the paperwork.

Brian
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: N Kahn on September 28, 2012, 07:38:06 PM
Thank you all very much for your support.
Greg, I won't be showing it at Lake Mirror but I will bring her out soon. I'll be going to the show, I never miss it, it's wonderful.
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: rwchatham CLC 21892 on September 28, 2012, 09:44:05 PM
Quote from: 62droptop on September 28, 2012, 05:51:13 PM
just give up already
why cant you just take it for what it is
we are not talking about apollo 13 here


for many cars 50 yrs old, unless you find someone that actually worked on it back then and kept photos etc, you may never get the documents that you are looking
i think he has enough proof and is very happy with the very special car he purchased
Give what up ? If this car came up for auction at 100 K with this paper trail would you put your money on it with the paperwork that has been shown. A signed paper by someone  with many mistakes, 10 inches longer 1st car with ac. etc. Or documents from someone connected but not GM. It would not be enough for me. What does the GM build sheet show ? I would like to see the connection between the show car and body 554, thats all plain and simple. Do some research on other gm styling cars and you will see, the so codes on the cars, on the build sheets etc. I once bought a cadillac that had a elvis 45record in the trunk, that does not mean it was elvis's car.
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: N Kahn on September 28, 2012, 10:26:53 PM
This is my last word to you Ray, the two sheets above came from researchers at GM, I couldn't get anything from GM, that's what I meant to say, it took someone who knows people there to get the job done, I have their names and email addresses. I myself took no stock in the information I was given with the car and none of it has panned out. I feel you're upset because I turned down your $30,000 offer to buy the car, why would you have wanted the car then when there was very little documentation and now that there's a ton it's some sort of fake?

I really don't want to dignify you further with any comments, good day.
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: rwchatham CLC 21892 on September 29, 2012, 07:07:02 AM
Why are you having an attitude? All I would like to see is some proof connecting the so car to body 554. Why is that wrong?  Until I see that I will be a non believer. Big dea no need to get upset that is the American way. Maybe I'll just order the build sheet myself and take a look since you don't seem to want to post it.  Thank you.
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: Davidinhartford on September 29, 2012, 07:57:25 AM
There is no reason to doubt this cars authenticity.     First of all, why would Cadillac build two of them?  They wouldn't.

Secondly, nobody is going to the great expense to recreate a little known showcar.   There was no reason to.   

I find it very plausable that this car was gifted to someone after it was no longer a significant styling display car.   I'm sure by the time the 1964 models were out this car was is storage somewhere.

I'd like to thank Nadeem for sharing these photos with us and the progress of his research and restoration.


Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: N Kahn on September 29, 2012, 08:09:52 AM
I have attempted to get a build sheet from GM and I have had no success whatsoever, if and when I get it I'll gladly put it up here.

OK, I gotta get out to the garage and work on my 59 El Camino, the Turkey Run is coming up soon and these disc brakes ain't gonna install themselves.

Have a good day everyone.
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: Barry on September 29, 2012, 09:41:07 AM
This is getting really silly ! This gentleman has purchased a legitimate show car, and is kind and generous to share details and photographs with us ! Why on earth do some keep pounding for more paperwork ?? Can we not admit this IS the show car , and allow him to freely share his wonderful find with us without all the nit picking ? I'm as happy over him finding this car as if I had done so !It's by far the most interesting thread I've seen in years ! As the owner of a 61 Biarritz, I look forward to any posts and information he is willing to share ! Barry
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: Guidematic on September 29, 2012, 09:57:47 AM

Exactly. I've been enjoying treading this thread. It's been both fascinating and educational to me. Let's continue it within this scope and not ruin it.

Mike
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: Walter Youshock on September 29, 2012, 11:51:56 AM
And make me 3.  This car has been off the grid for 50+ years and Nadeem has generously shared his experience wit everyone.  Furthermore, he has been able to produce AND POST documents and photos seen by very few people ever.

It's far easier to prove than disprove THIS IS THE CAR! 

I think a lot of us would like to figure out where it's been and who owned it over the last half century.

Or should we waste 50 years trying to find the "real" one--the other one with the same SO number written on the interior pieces in the same color and same interior and same unique trim and unskirted fenders as the photos of the car that was at the Chicago show.
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: Eldovert on September 29, 2012, 11:59:28 AM
Ray,
After seeing your behavior on here I am glad I didn't tell you the location of the two '53 Eldorado's...they are now in the hands of happy owners.

Mr Kahn,
Your car is awesome. Congratulations on your purchase .
Cheers,Pat MacPhail
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: N Kahn on September 29, 2012, 12:06:58 PM
Thank you for your support, gentlemen.

There are two holes next to the cowl plate which may or may not indicate the presence of an SO tag at one time, if there are owners of 1961-62 Cadillacs that could verify whether these holes are on production cars I'd appreciate it.

(https://forums.cadillaclasalle.club/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi42.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fe327%2FRumblernads%2Fcaddytag.jpg&hash=b30456ccb45c738aaed32d1abec3a2d5646a494f)
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621 on September 29, 2012, 12:15:38 PM
My '62 doesn't have them for whatever it's worth. It's sure looking looking more and more convincing, from where I stand. The documentation & numbers 50110 recorded on the car is the most convincing evidence to date, beyond the car itself and the period photos of the Chicago Motorama. As far as I'm concerned, everything else is just the proverbial icing on the cake. Obviously any  document directly connecting body 554 with order 50110 would turn that icing into cast iron.

I'm convinced at any rate. 
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: rwchatham CLC 21892 on September 29, 2012, 02:09:17 PM
Quote from: Eldovert on September 29, 2012, 11:59:28 AM
Ray,
After seeing your behavior on here I am glad I didn't tell you the location of the two '53 Eldorado's...they are now in the hands of happy owners.

Mr Kahn,
Your car is awesome. Congratulations on your purchase .
Cheers,Pat MacPhail
Pat I have never said a discouraging word about this car or Nadeem so I have no idea what you are talking about. In fact I have said it is a cool car many times. It must be some type of crime to have the opinion of wanting to see the so car connected to body 554. That is just my opinion, big deal.And about the eldos you new about, I talked to the owners of the cars and they were pretty ratty cars so no prize lost there. One was made with a coupe. so please keep your comments about me to yourself.
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: wrefakis on September 29, 2012, 07:48:15 PM
I would like to know more about that list from gm,as a long time researcher of  "SO" cars,the date and origin of a list like this is quite a find,but when and why would it have been compiled if it includes cars of multiple years ?

the extra holes on the cowl may well have been from a second body tag, I have seen these once or twice if memory serves they were on commercial cars put on by the body builder,as this car had custom body features,that may have been the case

the real killer doc would be the actual car spec sheet like the ones I have on the 59"s, the build sheet that is the source of so much interest will show only what is on the body tag,99% chance this car was a standard production car modified after initial production,and it may well have been done by GM as all the modifications are body and trim,a completed unit would be sent to the trim and body works to be restyled as shown
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: Bob Hoffmann CLC#96 on September 29, 2012, 08:28:36 PM
Bill,
I totally agree. You have a lot more experience with SO cars of that era. I'd sure like to see a list like that covering  prewar cars. I can dream ,right?
Bob
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: 76eldo on September 30, 2012, 12:20:23 AM
The list could be from a vendor that supplied parts common to all of the vehicles on the list, or just a list of one off vehicles used for experimental styling.

Looks like Nadeem has plenty of paperwork to substantiate the validity of the custom work on the car.  He had me as a believer with the one-off custom Parade boot.

Brian
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: N Kahn on September 30, 2012, 08:32:14 AM
The parade boot was one of the things I saw through the gap behind the seat sitting in the trunk when I went to look at the car, the trunk key was missing so I could only see in there with a flashlight. The owner said they were fender skirts, I told him, "no, those are parade boots for the top, this car never had fender skirts"
Through all those years of ownership I don't think anyone in the family knew what the car was, but they certainly cared enough to keep it in dry storage and covered otherwise I can't imagine the damage it might have suffered.
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: wrefakis on September 30, 2012, 09:43:58 AM
I have no doubt that this car was built as a show car,all the modifications are GM period correct,the interior patterns, (63 riviera) open wheel wells (64 Eldo), lower body side trim,( many full size gm,63 electra,etc) these were the hot styling cues of the day

the additional body tag would be the killer item to go with the car, looking at the standard tag,you will see surface rust right at the edge of the tag,the same exact rust is on the area where the second tag lip would be,and the area beyond that is clean and original.
this tag has not been gone that long,I would search every inch of this car,it may well be somewhere in the car, as a post assembly line gm custom that tag would have been the one that referenced the custom work

this is why body tag # 1 will only show the pre-modification configuration,this does not mean that this car was not done by GM, as a completed unit sent out for custom work,it would have had a second tag indicating the specs,or codes( no clue what this tag would have contained,would vary by shop and internal codes)

















Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: blue68deville on September 30, 2012, 11:29:47 AM
Love it, I'm following this on the HAMB as well. Congrats on finding a rare survivor.

I bet you can't wait to drive it more.

I have to say, I like the car best in the configuration from post 156. Clean!
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: N Kahn on September 30, 2012, 11:34:30 AM
Agreed, so much cleaner
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: David King (kz78hy) on September 30, 2012, 12:06:02 PM
Nadeem,

Finding those holes next to the body tag has now convinced me that is the car. 

I shared Ray's skepticism about how that production body ended up being used as special build/converted show car. I thought I remembered seeing a history sheet from the GM Heritage Center, but I could not find it in the thread any longer.  I was remembering it came in showing a standard car with no mention of any GM ownership.  I must have imaged seeing that.

The shots of the car from the GM design patio and Chicago auto show clearly show a car without rocker moldings, so those were added later, maybe to cover up some rust?  When looking at your photos on the other site, the close up of the door bottom shows the repaint has a more gold color than the original, or at least that is how it looks to me.

The 2 holes next to the body tag are where the XP tag would have been placed.  To bad that is missing.  The car must have been ordered as a company car and then modified.  The XP sheets you acquired show 50110 as a running car, which is not normally the case with show/studio car development and that would help understand why a production car was used as a starting point.

I am attaching a reference shot of the additional tag that was mounted on the 59/60 Eldorado Brougham's.  These cars bodies were made in Italy and assembled to chassis' that were made in Detroit and shipped to Italy.  The body has an extra tag to the inboard side of the body tag.  So in your case, the XP tag would have been in that same location (as the Eldorado Brougham"s) as the witness marks indicates.

I had the though that the tag was removed when the car was retailed.  Again, normally these cars are not made available for sale, but are destroyed. The witness mark though would indicate the tag was there for awhile, so I think it remained for some time before someone removed it. 

Great looking car and when you get it looking like the factory shots, you will really have something special. 

Well done.

David
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: jagbuxx #12944 on September 30, 2012, 12:06:16 PM
Hello-
Just wanted to post in about my '61 Coupe deVille, regarding the 2 holes adjacent to the trim tag-mine has them as well. My car was an "SO" car also with full leather interior delivered to 870111, Los Angeles.
The door panels also had the writing pictured, "Special 1274"
Not sure if they(the 2 holes) were of any significance but on the tag itself are the 2 staples that I think had a supplemental paper listing the special order.
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: David King (kz78hy) on September 30, 2012, 12:18:57 PM
I wanted to note that the Brougham's extra tag was because of the body being made in Italy and your tag was because it was the GM assest tag for the special use.  All prototype cars have tags/numbers.

David
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: rwchatham CLC 21892 on September 30, 2012, 12:40:23 PM
I have got to say I was very skeptical but those 2 extra holes for the so tag and with big bill w. saying its the real deal I am now a believer. Congrats on a fantastic find.
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: N Kahn on September 30, 2012, 12:45:58 PM
David King, the pictures are not reproduced very well here, but if I could show you the pictures I have, you can see the rocker moldings are there, clear as day. I'll try and blow them up and repost.

I'll search through the car again but I'm pretty sure I'm not going to find the tag.
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: N Kahn on September 30, 2012, 12:58:47 PM
Well, I tried, I'm just not computer savvy enough to do it, if anyone knows how to blow them up, this picture shows the rocker moldings best. You can see the line shadows by the front wheel where the area is in light.

(https://forums.cadillaclasalle.club/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi42.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fe327%2FRumblernads%2F61-6-1.jpg&hash=1eeb203d25d6852356d100c62a21094436b0148c)
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: David King (kz78hy) on September 30, 2012, 01:34:35 PM
Quote from: N Kahn on September 11, 2012, 01:08:04 PM
Finally got the pics scanned from the book, The Greatest Auto Show On Earth.

Here you can clearly see the double whitewall tires exactly like the one in the trunk and these are hubcaps for sure, albeit custom ones that would be very difficult to duplicate.
(https://forums.cadillaclasalle.club/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi42.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fe327%2FRumblernads%2F1962caddy.png&hash=e015e364ad70b8e502e87b02d5a4bdae1e237c3f)

Here's a picture from the 1963 show showing a similarly mildly customized Eldorado with opened up rear wheelwells and real wire wheels, but not your typical Kelsey Hayes, these are much finer looking.
(https://forums.cadillaclasalle.club/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi42.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fe327%2FRumblernads%2F1963caddy.png&hash=ad7718d6da04096193f4289a1ee0894a778ef242)

I urge all of you to buy this book, it's terrific.

In the GM Design patio photo of the side, I don't see any rocker/door molding in that photo.  I see a bit of reflection off the chrome trim on the fender feature line.  There would be some reflection if the trim was there, broken up due to the ridges in it.  The faint lines on the lower corner must be a reflection off of something in the background, wheel cover, or photo setup.  The door cut lines where it fits the body would also indicate the presence of a molding.

The side/frontal shot of the auto show also does not reflect anything and it appears to be body color.  The shot of the next year  you can see reflection off the rocker molding.

In the beauty queen photos, the rocker molding really stands out when taken from the front/side angle, so to my eye, that molding was done later. 

Another thing would be if done at GM, there likely would not be exposed fasteners holding the trim on.  They would be hidden and not exposed.

But hey, that's my opinion of looking at the photos and the early photos look better to me than the later ones.

It's all good stuff.

David
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621 on September 30, 2012, 01:51:50 PM
After carefully studying the courtyard pic, there appears to be indications of the ribbed texture of the special rocker trim. It's very difficult to make out but I believe it's there. They should've painted the damn car black is all I can say. lol!  ;D
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: INTMD8 on September 30, 2012, 03:24:08 PM
To me it looks like the aluminum extruded lower trim is there in both pics.

The side view you can see the ribbing in the aluminum, especially where the sun is hitting the lower front fender.

In the front 3/4 view I cannot see enough detail that would show the ribbing but IMO it looks to be the color of aluminum rather than the glossy painted surface above it. It's most certainly a different color than the rest of the body, with less reflectivity.

Also, not sure if it was mentioned, or if it's significant but the side view shows a hole in the front fender for the power antenna.

Great car!
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: N Kahn on September 30, 2012, 04:00:49 PM
The screws were put in later by whoever owned it after they became loose from driving, there's no way they were installed with those ugly things at GM, but I assure you the ribbed molding is there, I have no doubt about it.
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: Series75 on October 02, 2012, 07:04:37 AM
Nadeem,
regarding my earlier suggestion to seek replacement ribbed lower rocker mouldings from the Professional Car Society.  Check out Walter M.P. McCall's publication "80 years of Cadillac LaSalle" Page 334 (1959),  page 339 (1960), page 346 (1962), page 362 (1965).  The Hearses and Flower cars were fitted with "Note the ribbed lower rear fender applique ...."   These were commonly used to contrast against the black cars and draw the eye to reduce the bulky look of these vehicles.  Tom CLC#6866
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: N Kahn on October 02, 2012, 12:22:04 PM
Will have to look out for that book, thanks Tom.
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: g27g28 on October 02, 2012, 06:00:50 PM
Nadeem,
There is an article in the October issue of the Self Starter which is the monthly magazine for the CLC which is entitled All in the family: A Cadillac journey written by Jerry Brochstein.  He was in the Cadillac design studio starting in the early 60's.  I did a search on here and did not find him as a member on here but he is a member of the CLC living in Detroit.  Perhaps you could contact him and ask him about your car.  Maybe someone on here has his contact information. 
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: R Schroeder on October 03, 2012, 07:49:58 AM
I saved the pictures , of the side view of the car , to a folder on my computer. I then opened it , and with my mouse wheel I can make them bigger. There is something there on the lower rocker panels that is ribbed.
You also can use the PAINT program to enlarge. It comes out the same either way.
Roy
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: N Kahn on October 04, 2012, 09:14:24 AM
The antenna is on the same spot on my car, are they in the same place on all 61-62 Caddies?

Here's the built sheet kindly cropped by South-Paw over at the 1961-62 Caddy Group he also found this photo from the Michigan University Archives, there is one big difference though, this car has no autronic eye on the dashboard.

(https://forums.cadillaclasalle.club/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi42.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fe327%2FRumblernads%2F1961sheetcrop_zps1db43ee6.png&hash=90480dcbd06a2311f75b1a9da30bdd9d95e2d2a3)

(https://forums.cadillaclasalle.club/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi42.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fe327%2FRumblernads%2Fcoffeycaddy_zps4e70640e.jpg&hash=55a6ee573fe7034f18a2e04af616395be26cd2c9)


I rebuilt my eyebrow molding enough to get a mold from, I've got to get the opposite side made from a quick prototype 3D scanner and get them cast in brass.

(https://forums.cadillaclasalle.club/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi42.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fe327%2FRumblernads%2Fmolding2_zps05ff056b.jpg&hash=c3b617d77b256999c47c808ed9bd58744d3df499)
(https://forums.cadillaclasalle.club/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi42.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fe327%2FRumblernads%2Fmolding3_zpse43b065d.jpg&hash=b3758307df6c8146c3a045837b3e7ce075a94ca1)
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: Barry on October 04, 2012, 12:45:50 PM
This is the most interesting and exciting thread EVER !
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: N Kahn on October 04, 2012, 03:01:51 PM
Thank you Barry.

I finally got my paper build sheet and it's completely unreadable, the email copy is clearer.
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: N Kahn on October 06, 2012, 09:35:32 AM
My son and I went out to get gas this morning, her first real drive in who knows how long.

(https://forums.cadillaclasalle.club/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi42.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fe327%2FRumblernads%2Fcaddydrive_zps252eec0f.jpg&hash=62063203500ef7065802074a5f58f71e549238f7)

(https://forums.cadillaclasalle.club/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi42.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fe327%2FRumblernads%2Fcaddydrive2_zps372a150c.jpg&hash=b158aeb2e31b4822489c7bf7533717f8cdbfaf5d)
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: blue68deville on October 06, 2012, 10:50:40 PM
Nice to see it out & about. It would be hard for me to keep it in the garage too.
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: Barry on October 07, 2012, 11:49:41 AM
Great to see her out and driven ! How did the drive go ?
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: N Kahn on October 07, 2012, 06:36:06 PM
Quote from: Barry on October 07, 2012, 11:49:41 AM
Great to see her out and driven ! How did the drive go ?

Just took her out again with my best friend, our kids, and our chihuahua, Gomez, the car really runs nice, remarkably so, having been laid up for so long I would expect sticky valves, dead lifters and leaks, but so far she's been great, I'm worried she's gonna blow up.
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: R Schroeder on October 07, 2012, 08:20:04 PM
I like all the different license plates. Any of them legal..................ha
Roy
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: Davidinhartford on October 09, 2012, 10:52:05 PM
Quote from: Roy Schroeder on October 07, 2012, 08:20:04 PM
I like all the different license plates. Any of them legal..................ha
Roy

That's not very nice.   Nadeem has been very upfront with us with the documentation and restoration photos.  A fascinating read for us.   How often does a lost showcar surface?    And some of you have been less than polite here.

Gentlemen please be gentlemen.   
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: N Kahn on October 10, 2012, 06:03:34 AM
Quote from: David Smith on October 09, 2012, 10:52:05 PM
That's not very nice.   Nadeem has been very upfront with us with the documentation and restoration photos.  A fascinating read for us.   How often does a lost showcar surface?    And some of you have been less than polite here.

Gentlemen please be gentlemen.   

I think Roy was joking, I took it as one.

Got a quote back on getting the moldings re-made, $2,000...........yikes! Can this be in the ballpark? Has anyone had pieces made that were unavailable before? It's $1,000 just for the 3D quick prototype to make the driver's side one. And then there's the cost of getting them chromed.
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: 76eldo on October 11, 2012, 07:33:01 PM
Saw this today:

http://psautomobilist.blogspot.com/2011/08/biarritz-for-bill.html
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: Matt CLC#18621 on October 11, 2012, 08:51:11 PM
Quote from: Barry on October 04, 2012, 12:45:50 PM
This is the most interesting and exciting thread EVER !

ABSOLUTELY agree, I spent 2hours reading entire thread last night.

Matt
CLC# 18621
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: N Kahn on October 12, 2012, 06:49:45 AM
It seems the mystery of where the original Le Mans hubcaps is solved, on page 86 of James Howell's Cadillac Eldorado book they appear on the top right mock up of the new 67 Eldorado. I highly doubt that GM would have remade a six year old cap, I wish I could get a high quality scan of this picture.
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: Davidinhartford on October 12, 2012, 07:19:48 AM
So the stylist kept the wheelcovers to reuse on future projects.  Then they just slapped back on the stock wheelcovers when the car was sold.    Very interesting!
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: R Schroeder on October 12, 2012, 07:39:41 AM
Yes, I was kidding about the license plates. Lets not get so serious.
Nice car and a very interesting story.
Roy

Even I run an illegal plate on the front of my car. 1978 plate.
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: N Kahn on October 12, 2012, 09:26:57 AM
As of yesterday, she's legal, Hagerty wouldn't give me the coverage I was asking for, it's still a hefty amount, but I'm going to get her appraised next week and see if I can't get it increased.

I was feeling a bit down yesterday, so I snuck out and took her for a ride under the stars, first night time drive. It was wonderful, just magical...........but the instrument panel lights don't work, ha ha.
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: Davidinhartford on October 12, 2012, 10:24:54 PM
Quote from: N Kahn on October 12, 2012, 06:49:45 AM
It seems the mystery of where the original Le Mans hubcaps is solved, on page 86 of James Howell's Cadillac Eldorado book they appear on the top right mock up of the new 67 Eldorado. I highly doubt that GM would have remade a six year old cap, I wish I could get a high quality scan of this picture.

I found more pics in the December 1991 issue of Collectible automobile. 

This one (below)  from February of 1962 has one of your wheelcovers on the front and a stock one on the rear.
(https://forums.cadillaclasalle.club/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm9.staticflickr.com%2F8333%2F8081494439_3e8423470e_o.jpg&hash=6376c2d931580bd7a8d63b518d5f67ebabe277cf)

Here are more of the one you mentioned.   It was from November 1963 and was called the Stallion".   
(https://forums.cadillaclasalle.club/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm9.staticflickr.com%2F8055%2F8081494571_58dae014f6_o.jpg&hash=bb36ae3df474d6305cac109ec6a3710251b36ea9)
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: N Kahn on October 12, 2012, 10:31:37 PM
Thank you so much, David. The crazy thing is the wheel is deeply dished and wouldn't have worked on the FWD platform which was finalized by then, how could the cap have fit in this wheel? Has it been cut down?

Curious.
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: N Kahn on October 12, 2012, 10:32:43 PM
BTW, 24 is the pic from the Cadillac Eldorado book.
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: Davidinhartford on October 12, 2012, 10:42:06 PM
I think those were non functional clay mock ups.   Probably no need to make the wheelcovers appropriate for FWD or RWD at that time.

I have the Howell book on the Eldorados too.    The photo in the December 91 Collectible Automobile magazine is the same photo, but a larger image.     I saved that issue as it had a nice feature on the Eldorados.

Th original B&W studio photo must exist.    Perhaps Jeff can get a better copy from his sources?
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: N Kahn on October 15, 2012, 03:06:00 PM
I'm going to make the moldings for my fenders from sheet steel, I've done it before and they came out beautifully. I made card templates and transferred them to sheet steel and now I have to weld them together. To make the opposite side all you have to do is flip the pieces, it's really easy. I was getting quotes upwards of $2,000 to cast these pieces. Watch this space for progress.

(https://forums.cadillaclasalle.club/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi42.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fe327%2FRumblernads%2Fmoldingpieces2_zps0fa1fb6c.jpg&hash=cd0451241066d163b0a70c3637102a2b8288f87c)
(https://forums.cadillaclasalle.club/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi42.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fe327%2FRumblernads%2Fmoldingpieces_zps1cb76170.jpg&hash=3d18214ef0a10d56309ceac975441d2920e45f8d)


Pieces I've made before from scratch

(https://forums.cadillaclasalle.club/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi42.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fe327%2FRumblernads%2Felcamino534.jpg&hash=830358e459ba1585422daeeee113793bb29611a9)
(https://forums.cadillaclasalle.club/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi42.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fe327%2FRumblernads%2Felcamino535.jpg&hash=3b64d8c8b0d680c8a8440554ab513a58e23b777e)
(https://forums.cadillaclasalle.club/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi42.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fe327%2FRumblernads%2Felcamino536.jpg&hash=1aab81e17fafcb8732e23148c50cab5ab3047548)

And after they were chrome plated by Spacecoast Plating

(https://forums.cadillaclasalle.club/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi42.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fe327%2FRumblernads%2Fgrillepieces2.jpg&hash=1fe7eb3ff9a2295ada79423eb1231f610ee03b33)
(https://forums.cadillaclasalle.club/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi42.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fe327%2FRumblernads%2Fgrillepieces1.jpg&hash=152ed33474dbef05371f630532e6925de41dc875)
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: Barry on October 15, 2012, 03:15:31 PM
If I haven't said it enough, I Love This Thread ! Thanks so such for sharing your journey ! Barry
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: R Schroeder on October 15, 2012, 04:32:57 PM
Sir, you are one handy guy. Parts look beautiful. The car couldnt be in better hands.
Roy
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: kevinanderson on October 15, 2012, 08:04:06 PM
First. Great find. Now as to the two additional holes next to the data plate......  When I was in college(mid 80's), I went to the area salvage yards. There was a particular yard in Sioux City, Iowa that specialized in older vehicles. In that yard was a '63 Fleetwood. I remember looking at it every time I went there. The car was loaded, including a canvas roof. And heavily stripped. And one of the most rusted out cars I've ever seen. It was a very light tan with the matching canvas roof and matching leather interior. On the cowl in board of  the data plate, was a placard attatched with two screws. It was  white plastic with a blue facing that reminded me of denim weaving. The sides were beveled to reveal a boarder of the white plastic. And embossed into the placard, down to the white plastic, it stated "1964 Cadillac Firemist Saddle".  I removed it and have it somewhere. I remembered thinking what a beautiful car, and  perhaps it had been a demonstrator. It disappeared shortly after that.
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: N Kahn on October 15, 2012, 10:16:17 PM
Wow, cool story, I'll have to find info on that car.

Well the attempt to make the pieces out of sheet steel failed, there was no way to weld the inside of the curve with satisfactory results, it looks like I'll have to shell out cash money.
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: INTMD8 on October 16, 2012, 12:33:35 AM
Do you have a picture of the area you were having trouble with?
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621 on October 16, 2012, 03:31:47 PM
Sorry to hear that. Still, it takes tremendous talent to accomplish what you have been able thus far. My hat is off to you Nadeem!
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: N Kahn on October 24, 2012, 12:27:10 PM
Hold the phones.

Success, off to the platers.

After looking at the passenger side molding I realized that it can be welded up so I took it to Badger Welding and they fixed it up for $40. I ground it smooth and it's ready to get plated. I took another shot at making the driver's side molding and instead of using brake line to make the inside curve I formed it with plain sheet metal, it came out pretty darn good, there's a divot or two in the area where the molding is painted but the area that gets chrome is really nice..........this piece cost nothing, well I did run out of shielding gas, that was $52.



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Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: The Tassie Devil(le) on October 24, 2012, 07:05:25 PM
Congratulations, that is a piece of art.

Bruce. >:D
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: Barry on October 24, 2012, 10:21:11 PM
Really enjoy keeping up with the progress !! Thanks for sharing it with us !!
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: N Kahn on October 25, 2012, 08:37:36 AM
Took her out for a drive on Sunday, the tires are well and truly shot, the car was shaking like mad, pretty sure the treads are separating, no more driving until I get new tires which I ordered from Coker.
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: N Kahn on November 16, 2012, 04:50:58 PM
Not much to report on the Caddy. I got my grille bar back from Spacecoast Platers, they are so good I've never had to return a piece because I was unhappy.
Gonna get my tires from Coker next weekend and I'll fix my wheel cylinders and master cylinder whilst I have the wheels off.

Before

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After

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Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621 on November 16, 2012, 05:12:45 PM
Looks beautiful. Excellent craftsmanship.
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: Barry on November 16, 2012, 06:58:42 PM
AMAZING ! Please keep us posted ! This is such an interesting thread to me and I thank you for sharing it !
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: Davidinhartford on November 16, 2012, 09:54:03 PM
Nadeem,

    This photo just popped up on Facebook.   This four door 61 Fleetwood has its tailights on the rear fins deleted like on your Biarritz.     From the same time as your car was made?

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Dave Smith
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: N Kahn on November 17, 2012, 08:51:48 AM
Incredible, David, one month later than my car, it actually looks kinda good, I imagine it might have been a bit floppy though. Can you imagine it turning up out of the blue?
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: Ralph Messina CLC 4937 on November 17, 2012, 10:25:14 AM
David,

Very interesting photo. Sometime during 1960 there was a functioning prototype ’60 Fleetwood four door convertible built as a possible answer to the ’61 Continental convertible. There’s no record of that prototype other than a few pictures. Legend says it was scrapped. I wonder if Cadillac continued pursuing it by modifying the ’60 prototype with ’61 sheet metal? Was Cadillac serious enough about the four door convertible idea to invest in a second prototype?

Ralph
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: N Kahn on November 17, 2012, 03:04:40 PM
The wheels on the car look like Buick Skylark wires and those spotlights are really incongruous, they look like 1940s jobs, maybe Cadillac was going for a 30s-40s style look.
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: Quentin Hall on November 17, 2012, 05:08:04 PM
       I remember reading an article ( Collectible Automobile ?) on the 60 prototype 4 door conv saying that it was a small in house design team  ( I never said "skunkworks" hehe) that had come up with a new scissor mechanism allowing the top to fold into the small space left in the parcel shelf.  They built the prototype sure that they had a winner to rival Lincoln.  It got knocked on the head by management ( but then they obviously had another try a year later).  I must admit that having lifted my kids into their child restraint seats in both my old 57 and 59 Biarritzs that it was a lesson in contortionism to clamber in with the top up. I still put my bad back down to this.
        There was definately a culture of homage paid by the designers on many of the cars that eminated from the studios. Just as the 53 Eldo mimmicks the 31 roadster, and as the 71 Eldo mimmicks the 53 Eldo. The spotlights do look incongruous but there was a time in the early fifties where every custom car carried a pair.
        You Americans probably won't get the joke , but a 4 door convertible just screams Sydney Wedding Car to me. !!!! ;D  Q   
 
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: The Tassie Devil(le) on November 17, 2012, 06:47:35 PM
Quote from: Quentin Hall on November 17, 2012, 05:08:04 PM
       You Americans probably won't get the joke , but a 4 door convertible just screams Sydney Wedding Car to me. !!!! ;D  Q     
Exactly.

Bruce. >:D
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: Ralph Messina CLC 4937 on November 17, 2012, 08:37:46 PM
Quentin & Bruce,

Okay, I’ll ask. Other than garish 50 foot stretched sedans and SUV’s what is the defining characteristic of a “Sydney Wedding “ ?

Ralph
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: Quentin Hall on November 17, 2012, 11:26:34 PM
G'day Ralph,
             Ok here goes. . .  so you go to the Lakemba Bunnings hardware store in your 4 door Cadillac sedan and you buy a cheap Chinese hacksaw. You cut the roof off your sedan in the carpark  :-[ meanwhile a storm is brewing  ??? but luckily there is an Annaconda camping store next to the Bunnings :) . So you buy the most incongruous  :o(there's that word again) tent/awning/overhang/ thingy and drape it over your car :P and call it "a roof". Then before you can leave the carpark a dozen Greek/Croatian/Masedonian  brides-to-be  :-* have cornered you to do their wedding in Parramatta next weekend matee.
      If I've left out anything I am sure that Bruce >:D will add it.  Q ;D
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: Ralph Messina CLC 4937 on November 17, 2012, 11:46:28 PM
Quentin,

Hillarious! :) And here I thought strange behavior was only indigenous to the USA where the bigger the "Limo" the gaudier the bridal party.

Ralph
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: The Tassie Devil(le) on November 18, 2012, 12:02:01 AM
Good description Quentin.   Saw that once here with a '59 Chev 4 door Sedan, but before he cut the roof off, he plastered the roof with Fibreglass to make himself a roof.   There was some planning in this convertabilisation.

I actually saw the results of a similar happening whilst driving in Canada in British Columbia in '02.   There was a '77 Eldorado at the Gas Station where I was filling up my own car, and I thought it funny it being a Convertible.

When I asked the driver about the car, he said "it was a Coupe this morning, but as we were going to the party tonight, and the weather was nice, a quick go with the Saws-all, and now I have a Convertible".

To his credit, he did fill cover the jagged edges with foam using the pressure-pack contact cement.

Bruce. >:D
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: N Kahn on November 18, 2012, 08:22:55 AM
Similar things were done in England too, but there was particular love for turning everything into a pick up truck.
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: R Schroeder on November 18, 2012, 09:41:22 AM
I guess they like to make pickups all over the world.

Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: veesixteen on November 20, 2012, 10:50:23 AM
Now I see where the Japanese  toy manufacturer (Bandai) got the idea for his 1:12th scale tinplate "Golden Cadillac Convertible" of 1960+1963!
[ source:  Cadillac Database - http://cadillacdatabase.com/Dbas_txt/photoy60.htm ]
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: 76eldo on November 20, 2012, 11:25:25 AM
It has a Pinin Farina badge on the front fenders.  Interesting.

Brian
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: Davidinhartford on November 20, 2012, 11:50:33 AM
Quote from: 76eldo on November 20, 2012, 11:25:25 AM
It has a Pinin Farina badge on the front fenders.  Interesting.

Brian

But all 61 Fleetwood Sixty specials has that emblem on their front fenders.

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Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: 76eldo on November 20, 2012, 12:03:43 PM
Did not know that.  I don't know a lot about the 61-62 stuff.  Way different than the 1960.  Huge differences between 60 and 61.

Brian
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: Ralph Messina CLC 4937 on November 20, 2012, 12:19:13 PM
The Fleetwood picture with Eldorado trim I referred to earlier is on page 24 of Schneider’s Cadillac of the Sixties and it was a 1960 styling study. I believe the “Pinninfarina” badge mentioned above says “Brougham” as used on ’59 and ’60 Broughams. The badge on ’60 through ’62 Sixty Specials is nearly identical but says “Fleetwood”.

Ralph
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: Ralph Messina CLC 4937 on November 20, 2012, 03:09:47 PM
Oops!. I just realized I confused two posting topics. My first sentence above about the Eldorado trim was meant for the “’59 Eldorado 6W” topic, not this one. The badge comments were meant for this topic……Instead of foolin’ around on the computer, I should probably do something constructive like work on my car.

Ralph
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: N Kahn on November 28, 2012, 07:12:03 AM
We had a wonderful thanksgiving, my daughter was here from Brooklyn, she's 22, graduated from SAIC in Chicago and has a real job for the first time, she took a photography class and is pretty good at it so she took some good pictures of the Caddy........finally, I thought I'd share them with you. I hope you all had a good thanksgiving too.

(https://forums.cadillaclasalle.club/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi42.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fe327%2FRumblernads%2FIMGP7309.jpg&hash=c92ec2d6962e528edd399969c7f80f10e3d66412)
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Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: okccadman on November 28, 2012, 08:23:25 AM
Great photos of a great car!  Im so glad that car has found a good home.  Keep up the good work!
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: Bill Hedge CLC 14424 on November 28, 2012, 08:36:24 AM
Very nice photos.  Your daughter has talent!

Bill Hedge
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: 76eldo on November 28, 2012, 08:43:21 AM
Nice work.  I just noticed that the tail lights were deleted from the fin and filled in.  You really found a great car.

Brian
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: N Kahn on December 02, 2012, 08:22:53 AM
The 8.20-15 US Royal bias ply narrow whitewalls are on, the car drives like a dream now, and looks a zillion times better too.
(https://forums.cadillaclasalle.club/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi42.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fe327%2FRumblernads%2Fcaddywhitewalls.jpg&hash=4f36d281cdd94cd78ce3eda331a07adf8a269bf8)
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: Barry on December 02, 2012, 10:09:48 AM
Looks GREAT with the new tires !
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: N Kahn on December 02, 2012, 01:54:23 PM
Here's a couple of pics of the neato back up lights, they come when the gear lever is in reverse whether the ignition is on or not.

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Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: Barry on December 02, 2012, 03:25:14 PM
Absolutely love this car , and your willingness to share it with us !
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: veesixteen on December 02, 2012, 06:23:25 PM
Nadeem, might I ask if the car is equipped with automatic door locks? The 1959 and 1960 cars already had that option. In 1959 they were operated by an electric motor and there was a small "lightning bolt" decorating the top surface of the door knobs. In 1960 the locks were vacuum operated (my 1960 Eldorado had that option).  Lovely car!
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: N Kahn on December 03, 2012, 07:08:51 AM
Veesixteen, yes it has power door locks, they don't work, I think they're vacuum operated, there's no lightning bolt on the switch.
Title: window sticker price label or Monroney Label window sticker
Post by: LA213 on December 07, 2012, 02:26:40 AM
hi ...need help :( ..  i love the one you made for your car .... can you help me get one for my car ...window sticker price label  or a Monroney Label window sticker  ... please let  me  know  thanks  Albert Rios ....anything you can get me  will be helpful thank you (626) 672-8462 cell pone or email back thanks or  at least lead me in the right direction do do it my self  or if  you can do it  i would really appreciate it .. thanks .. 1990  Cadillac Sedan DeVille
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: N Kahn on December 08, 2012, 07:12:31 PM
LA123, I think you posted this on the wrong thread

Progress as of today, I hope Spacecoast can get my bumper plated quickly

I removed the front bumper to fix the split in it, I also found a rust hole in it, the brackets to hold side lights in place are rotted out but they'll be easy to replicate. The fiberglass lower bumper needs a lot of work, I have to strengthen the bonded in steel mounts and fix many cracks from being hit.
The grille will have to be removed and taken apart completely to straighten in, it's pretty complicated but I think it's repairable.
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Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: N Kahn on December 11, 2012, 06:50:42 PM
Got my eyebrow moldings back from Spacecoast Plating, they look pretty good even the one I made from scratch, there's a couple of divots and blemishes, but they're in the areas that are gonna be painted so I can prime and putty them smooth.

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They picked up my bumper too, I worked on the fiberglass lower bumper, I fiberglassed all the damaged areas, the old chrome peeled right off but it was sharp like a razor blade, I got lots of cuts, I shoulda worn gloves.


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This bumper's off to Paul's Chrome in Pa, they do plastic and fiberglass, I don't how this process works, I'd love to know.
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: Ralph Messina CLC 4937 on December 11, 2012, 09:31:02 PM
Nadeen,

Most likely they use some variation of vapor metal deposition  (aluminum?). Much like what’s done for the chrome parts on plastic model cars and plastic interior trim in newer cars.  I suspect there are additional steps afterwards to protect the surface.

I sent  several pot metal pieces to Spacecoast for repair and plating. They sound like an upstanding operation…….I’ll know more when the parts return. Thanks for the contact information.

Ralph
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: N Kahn on December 12, 2012, 07:39:08 AM
Ralph, you won't be sorry, they are top notch.

The copper on the bumper is very thick, as thick as an aluminum can, at one time I'm sure that it was firmly adhered to the fiberglass, which appears to have just plain primer on it. I think when the bumper was hit water and water vapor worked its way up underneath the copper making it easy to peel off in sheets, you can see green tell tale copper corrosion veins all over. I'm hoping it comes back looking good, I have never used Paul's before but they have a solid reputation and one of only a few places in the US that will tackle fiberglass.

I'm dreading the quote from Spacecoast for the upper bumper, man it's huge.
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: N Kahn on December 13, 2012, 01:55:11 PM
This car's like an archeological dig, I removed the outer headlight buckets, both of which are damaged and when I looked at the bulb retaining ring I found that SO# stamped on the backside 50110, yup this is fer sure that car.
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You can see how crudely constructed the backs of the buckets are, there's holes everywhere, there's no specific hardware it's all, whatever was laying around was used. The right side bucket had its bottom part broken off but luckily it was in the trunk of the car, I've started fixing all the pieces then I'll send them off to get rechromed, the inner buckets and all four rings are in perfect condition.
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Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621 on December 13, 2012, 02:14:01 PM
Nadeem- if I ever decide to play the lottery, I'm using the numbers 5-0-1-1-0!  ;D
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: 76eldo on December 13, 2012, 05:01:56 PM
Judging by the work you are doing and what you are posting, it really seems like this gem fell into some very capable hands.

Really doing a great job.  This should be a feature in the Self Starter.

Brian
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: N Kahn on December 15, 2012, 03:47:09 PM
Headlight buckets are repaired and ready to be shipped to Paul's Chrome,  these were a pain, I got all new studs welded on, I hope they come out looking good, I still don't know how they chrome fiberglass. The grille is a real mess, the vertical bars are so thin they're bending, I think I'm going to have sacrifice them and come up with a plan to put thicker bars at the back of the grille to tie everything together.
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Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: N Kahn on December 17, 2012, 09:49:07 AM
Seeing as how I have the front end apart I decided I might as well fix the two small rusted ares in the front fender tips, I'm just going to blend the paint it shouldn't be very noticeable repair because of where it is.



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Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: N Kahn on December 19, 2012, 03:18:00 PM
On to the grill, I cut the bar down the center but not all the way through and had it welded back to it's right contour. Now it will fit the center support properly. Note how bent and tweaked the vertical bars are, there's 17 of them total, I'm thinking of making them in stainless steel so they're stronger than soft aluminum.
Look at how the bars were kept in place by cross drilling across the horizontal bars and driving a pin in the hole. All complicated stuff.
There's another aluminum strip in a brushed finish that goes over the center bar, the hammer marks will be covered up.

Wish me luck with this piece.

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Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: The Tassie Devil(le) on December 19, 2012, 06:18:45 PM
G'day Nadeem,

This vehicle is surely in the best hands available.

These "one-off" constructions saw the builders doing a lot of different things, and looking deeper into the way they did these things, one can only appreciate what lengths they went to to create these masterpieces.

They were never designed to be repaired, as in normal repair practices, and you are proving to be the master of alternative repairing.

Bruce. >:D

Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: N Kahn on December 20, 2012, 02:50:36 PM
Thank you Bruce for having more confidence in me than I have in myself.

Today's work so far

I made one vertical bar out of stainless steel, I've gotta make 16 more exactly the same. It actually went easier than I thought, I'm gonna clamp several strips together and cut the slits with my chopsaw.

(https://forums.cadillaclasalle.club/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi42.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fe327%2FRumblernads%2Fgrillepieces_zps05f502e7.jpg&hash=14813a1644d8069b399f01478acc4c1a85d9c4de)
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Marked with Roman numerals so I can remember how they go back together after I sand each bar to get rid of the corrosion.
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: Walter Youshock on December 20, 2012, 06:20:05 PM
Incredible work you have done so far.  If that grille is anodized aluminum like the standard cars, you don't want to sand it.
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: N Kahn on December 20, 2012, 07:14:09 PM
I'm pleased to say it's not anodized, Walter, I've polished some of the pieces, the leading edges of the horizontal bars were polished with a brushed finish along the tops, knowing the car was likely not going to be sold to the public there was no protection given to the aluminum trim. It's a real pain to remove anodizing and even harder to get it re-anodized properly.

I'm wondering if you folks have had any luck with any protective waxes or coatings for polished aluminum?
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: N Kahn on December 20, 2012, 07:55:25 PM
I stacked all the stainless strips I cut from a sheet bought for $7 from my favorite store, Skycraft Military Surplus, and welded them together along the bottom with the template at the front, now all I have to do is cut the slits on my chopsaw, grind away the weld and sand and polish the pieces. It's a lot of work but it's easier than cutting each piece individually.

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Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: The Tassie Devil(le) on December 20, 2012, 08:28:46 PM
G'day Nadeen,

I would be making a very solid backing place to cut against so there can be no chance of the thin pieces chattering.

By Solid, I am talking up to 3/8".

Bruce. >:D
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: N Kahn on December 21, 2012, 07:05:12 AM
The clamp in my chopsaw is super sturdy, it should be ok, I'll go slow and be very careful.
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: INTMD8 on December 21, 2012, 11:03:36 AM
That is a lot of work. Just a thought but you could always take/send a pattern out and have those pieces cut out on a water jet. Not too expensive and they would end up identical to one another.
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: Walter Youshock on December 21, 2012, 11:21:17 AM
Odd that it wasn't originally anodized as every other '62.  The extrusion was done before the anodizing, then the pieces were cut and/or bent to shape.

I really hope I get to see this magnificent automobile in person one day!  The taillight treatment should have been STANDARD for the regular Cadillac line.
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: N Kahn on December 23, 2012, 02:55:40 PM
The vertical strips were a failure, I'm having them professionally cut on a waterjet.
I took the fender signal housings off because they were really nasty inside, of course many studs broke, but I got em apart.
They are very heavy cast pieces and they're in great condition, I'll give em a good polish. The SO number is cast into the back, I can't imagine the dollars that were spent on this car.


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Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: N Kahn on December 24, 2012, 09:58:48 AM
I polished the housings, they came out nice. The grille was never anodized so it was easy to polish but now I've got to protect the aluminum does anyone know of a good product?
The lenses for the fender signals are not molded they are built like a Lucite purse from the 50s in sheets glued together, a lot of work for sure.

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Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: Walter Youshock on December 24, 2012, 10:30:44 AM
WOW! Are you using Eastwood's buffing kit?  Multiple compounds or just the white rouge?

All I can think of is a good clear paint to protect it.  Or some clear dipping process?  You don't want that to corrode again.

I've GOT to see this car!
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: N Kahn on December 24, 2012, 10:38:48 AM
I bought some compounds from The Chrome Shop up in Wildwood, I have an ancient Baldor buffer I bought at a garage sale, it's a great old machine, but it uses those jewelers buffs that go on a spiral spindle and they're kinda hard to find, I really need a new set.
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: Walter Youshock on December 24, 2012, 12:56:15 PM
I use a bench grinder with buffing wheels.  Works great for stainless.  Small areas get the Dremel treatment.

Keep up the great work!
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: N Kahn on December 25, 2012, 04:40:15 PM
Merry Christmas everyone, I'm having a great day with my family but I couldn't resist going outside and getting some work done.
I painted the hood bar too, it came out nice.
I masked, sanded and painted the moldings that go under the front fenders and hood, the one on the right is the one I made from scratch, waiting for them to dry so I can bolt them in.
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Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: The Tassie Devil(le) on December 25, 2012, 05:27:55 PM
Quote from: N Kahn on December 25, 2012, 04:40:15 PM
Merry Christmas everyone, I'm having a great day with my family but I couldn't resist going outside and getting some work done.
Merry Christmas Nadeem.

I know the feeling.   Just can't get away from doing nothing on Christmas Day.

Bruce. >:D
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: N Kahn on December 25, 2012, 06:31:42 PM
Now I'm gonna go watch Mr. Bean with my young un.

Here's the hood bar done, I installed everything, it's too dark to take pics, I'll post some tomorrow.
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Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: N Kahn on December 26, 2012, 07:03:34 PM





Took the front turn signals apart to clean out 51 years of grime and to polish the plastic lenses, more usage of the Special Order # 50110 was found, these things are really beautifully made and have remained almost perfect.
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Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: N Kahn on December 28, 2012, 10:08:01 AM
I polished the lenses and reassembled my turn signals, now they're shiny and look like jewelry.
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Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: Quentin Hall on December 28, 2012, 04:47:01 PM
G'day Nadeem,  I bet there came a point around Dec 24 when your wife said in exasperation, "No Nadeem, you cannot hang those bloody parklights from the Christmas tree, despite the fact that you think they look like baubles." hehe I was trying to work out how they were made. Are they a pressed metal or cast? either way an expensive item to make for "one of ". Development cost would have been interesting/phenomenal. I wonder if the accountants kept the build costs related to each SO car, now that would be an eye opener.
     Let me apolgise for mis-spelling your name with an N on the end in one or two of my posts.  I should know better to get it right as I often get Quinton , Quinten, Quonton, heck I even got Guentin recently from the electricity dept. Just don't call me late for dinner.
      Trying to get motivated to pull the engine and box from my 57 Biarritz today, looks like a scorcher already. Q u e n t i n .
       
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: David King (kz78hy) on December 28, 2012, 04:56:32 PM
Q,

The costs were, and are tracked today.  Probably better today.  That is why the SO 50110 is assigned so the project cost is accounted for.

All one off cars are very expensive to produce.  Even the preproduction cars today can cost 250k and those are built in the hundreds.  The show cars go way up from there.

David
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: wrench on December 31, 2012, 01:01:59 AM
We use Xzilon on the brightwork (polished aluminum) of our aircraft.

http://www.granitizeaviation.com/Product.aspx?ItemNo=9
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: N Kahn on January 06, 2013, 05:27:45 PM
Got a lot done this weekend, I cleaned some wire terminals and got the antenna to work. I started assembling the grille which was a real chore, I'm waiting on the vertical pieces which are being made by a waterjet.

Here's the hood and fender moldings installed, the one I made is the driver's side, the passenger one is the original, neither fit particularly well, I don't think they ever did, you should see the wallered out holes and hand made fabrication on this car, I guess it's evidence that it really was hand made.
My friend restored a Jensen, you should have seen the work on this beast, the frame rails were made from heavy walled water pipe. Some of the fiberglass body was an inch thick in some places and tree bark thin in others.
(https://forums.cadillaclasalle.club/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi42.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fe327%2FRumblernads%2Fhoodmoldingright_zps00dd9985.jpg&hash=c5542437901c59cc775116611fce6cfff11be5d3)
(https://forums.cadillaclasalle.club/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi42.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fe327%2FRumblernads%2Fhoodmoldingright_zps71259aba.jpg&hash=7e3e3810db51aae284649685c21f1f99528c4afc)
The hood molding was incredibly rough, I can't believe the job Spacecoast Plating did on it, all the edges are still sharp and not polished round, I can't say enough about their work.
(https://forums.cadillaclasalle.club/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi42.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fe327%2FRumblernads%2Fhoodmoldinginstalled_zps081b5f00.jpg&hash=b20913b89cf6e41252cabcca6e2455487c38dffe)
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: Davidinhartford on January 06, 2013, 08:52:01 PM
Fantastic!   :D
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: N Kahn on January 07, 2013, 08:36:27 AM
The radiator support panel will get some love, rust holes fixed and painted before the grille is hung back on.
I'm eagerly awaiting the return of my bumpers and headlight pods so I can drive here to the grocery store again.
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: Guidematic on January 07, 2013, 11:08:11 AM

What model of Jensen? That was an interesting company, not known for quality or reliability, especially given the price of the cars. But they were high performers with the Chrysler sourced engines. However bad it was, the Interceptor FF was a pioneer in that it offered all wheel drive and anti-lock brakes in 1966.

Mike
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car
Post by: Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621 on January 07, 2013, 12:42:14 PM
Wonderful progress as usual Nadeem and your perseverance is to be envied.

*What began as a thread about this car being for sale has long since become about the car's authenticity, history and restoration processes therefore "...For Sale" has been removed from the end of thread title. Content remains unchanged.

Carry on...
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car
Post by: N Kahn on January 07, 2013, 01:35:15 PM
Look at this gem I found.

I bought this original photo on ebay, it's from 1961 for the Chicago Auto Show, it's hard to tell but there are ribbed aluminum moldings across the bottom just like on my car, but the skeg's not extended to the ends of the fenders, interesting car. I wish I could scan a better copy and blow it up.

Guidematic, I don't what year it was, it must have been early 60s, it had quad canted headlights and pontoons over the fenders like a Mercedez Benz 300SL, it had a big block Chrysler and it was right hand drive. I loved it.

(https://forums.cadillaclasalle.club/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi42.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fe327%2FRumblernads%2Fcaddycarshow_zps3a23a609.jpg&hash=7a5e8e697a1c5ee74142e9986481078e75f785e5)
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car
Post by: Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621 on January 07, 2013, 02:13:50 PM
The main difference I notice between the car in the pic and your car is that your car has the full wheel cutouts; this one has the rear fender skirts.

Interesting photo all the same. A great addition to your archive.

*Also, it looks as if the front bumper might be all chrome unlike the chrome/fiberglass bumper on your car.
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car
Post by: cadimec on January 07, 2013, 03:10:18 PM
Firstly, congratulations on a wonderful find, and bravo for your work to date.   (was up reading through the threads & links till the wee small hours...)  A couple of thoughts to offer:  the factory photo with the roof up & passenger door open (non-GuideMatic dash) - is it possible that car was the twin - i.e. the "Bing Crosby" car?   If, as it appears so far, they merely customised regular production cars, perhaps some options were random.   I note that your car doesn't appear to have the power pulldown - which I understood was standard on the Eldorados - so was that a "random deletion" perhaps?   I have photos of an experimental Riviera convertible - with GuideMatic & wondered why they would bother with options which weren't central to the design experiment at hand....and when most of these were reputedly crushed afterwards.  (this goes to accounting/expenses of creating such cars).   The second comment concerns your factory Auto Show photo of the production car - again with the extruded aluminium trim (later also on Riviera Gran Sports of 1965).  They appear to have added an emblem as well.   I have noticed that the captions on factory photos were (necessarily) brief, and the "mauve mouton carpet" may have been but one of a host of custom-features on that car; it would be interesting if any more photos of it exist, to compare to yours.   Oh - and a final thought on the "missing plate" - is it possible that it was removed, BY Cadillac, once the car(s) were to be sold to the public?   One presumes it would have been taken "out of the accounting/off the company books", and if the main purpose of that plate was ostensibly accounting-related, this could explain it.   The car doesn't seem to be too tampered with, so its absence is very curious.   

It's hard to tell from the photos, but I see wood veneer where the dash radio speaker should be - was this moved perhaps to the upper front part of the console? 

Keep up the good work,
Tim Stephens
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car
Post by: N Kahn on January 07, 2013, 08:37:29 PM
What is a power pull down?
The clear old photo of the interior clearly doesn't have an Autronic Eye on the dashboard, it's a real mystery, maybe there were two but surely some documentation has to exist.
Also on the date provided from GM states the car to have an INFORA, which I believe was an acronym for an infolding roof as was tried on the Buick Riviera experimental but this car has a stock top.
The car in the 1961 auto show pic also has a parade boot.
I can post pics of my carpet tomorrow, maybe someone can tell me if it's Mouton, it doesn't look like regular carpet.

Thanks for all the info Tim.
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car
Post by: David King (kz78hy) on January 07, 2013, 10:10:41 PM
If mouton, it is sheep skin fur, sewn together.  This was a standard choice on the Brougham's and very hard to find today.  I am searching again to find a supplier of pelts to make a carpet for my car.

David
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car
Post by: 76eldo on January 07, 2013, 10:31:22 PM
Power pull down refers to a motorized trunk latch.  You close the trunk gently and a latch grabs and pulls the trunk down to the fully closed position.  Pretty useless gadget and most fail at some point.

Brian
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car
Post by: Glen on January 08, 2013, 12:29:41 AM
The pull down is a neat option; wish I had one on my Eldo. 

Most of them fail because they were not made to withstand slamming the trunk closed like most people are accustomed to.   
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car
Post by: The Tassie Devil(le) on January 08, 2013, 01:56:22 AM
I like the option, as one doesn't have to slam the trunk.

Wish there was one on the hood.

Bruce. >:D
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car
Post by: N Kahn on January 08, 2013, 07:37:02 AM
50110 does have a power pull down.
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car
Post by: N Kahn on January 08, 2013, 07:37:47 AM
and it works smooth as silk.
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car
Post by: Guidematic on January 08, 2013, 09:17:43 AM

I love the pull downs, and they work great if they are not abused, like slamming the lid down. And it's a great source of fascination for folk that have never seen one.

Mike
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car
Post by: 76eldo on January 08, 2013, 09:52:03 AM
I think the later ones fail more than the early beefier ones but most of the late 70's and 80's cads that I have owned have failed.  Even the one on my 99 failed and I have it adjusted and locked down and unplugged and the trunk closes easily.

All the Allantes use these to pull down the back of the convertible and hold it to the rear deck. Most of them fail.

They are neat when they work, but a bit silly, I mean the release is functional and useful but I can do without the pull down and associated repairs.
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car
Post by: cadimec on January 08, 2013, 03:01:19 PM
Concerning the mouton carpets: a fellow in the Danish Cadillac Club mentioned an Eldorado Brougham owner nearby "having the Mouton carpets made" - the THOUGHT that was costing $ 5000!!  I have a similar bind with my '74 Talisman - for the robe and pillow - I got the pillow, but not the robe which according to the data book was "Medici crushed velour lined with Mouton fur" - they probably killed a whole herd of acrylics to make those!   Doubtless, the 1950's/60's "mouton" was real sheepskin whereas the 70's version was synthetic material - like the clothes worn by the Mod Squad.

I'm surprised at the power pull-down remarks.  This option is The Way and The Light of our Church.  It is endlessly entertaining ($5.00 if you watch, $ 10.00 if you close the trunk yourself).  Unfortunately, the 1977 & later plastic-housing units are weak, under-engineered and, occasionally psychotic.  (anyone seen the ones which go up, then down but never latch in the closed position, taking the trunk lid up & down with them?)   I'm not a fan of the  1962-73 mechanical pull-down systems - no theatre in those.  No, there's nothing quite like the scream of the nylon gears in the 1974-76 (Eld 77 & 78 as well) pull-downs - they mean business.  Mercedes were so impressed, they stole the idea for the S-class passenger doors as well.   Do-it-yourself-trunk-closing is for people who drive...Chevrolets & things like that.
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car
Post by: cadimec on January 08, 2013, 03:02:02 PM
Forgot my monker:

Tim Stephens
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car
Post by: N Kahn on January 08, 2013, 05:10:15 PM
Quote from: cadimec on January 08, 2013, 03:02:02 PM
Forgot my monker:

Tim Stephens

Monker?

My car had no trunk key, still doesn't but I took out the barrel and I'm finally getting it made. I put a battery in her and pushed that button in the glove box having no idea what it did and the trunk popped open, wow!
Every time a new person sees the trunk in operation they are amazed that such a thing existed in 1961.
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car
Post by: cadimec on January 08, 2013, 05:49:47 PM
Sorry - that should have read "moniker" = Australian vernacular for "signature".   Yes - Cadillac had the remote release/power pull-down in 1956 (standard on Eldorados).  Required the ignition "ON" from 1977 onwards.   Fog lights were also standard on Eldorados - including the 1961 model.  I was looking at your turn/park lamps, and noticed also a ring behind the headlight knob.  On Cadillacs with fog lights these years, that ring had 2 positions - rotating left or right.  With the headlight knob at the 1st stop (parking lights position), turning the ring left lit the park lamps, right lit the fog lamps (or the other way around).  If the car doesn't have an integral fog light switch in the headlight switch, this ring is just an ornament, and doesn't rotate to give the 2 detent positions.   Since you have 2 lamps per side in these custom-made lamps, I was wondering if one pair might be for fog light operation?  Wiring colours for front fog lights were purple, turn signals light and dark blue, and park lamps white.  My guess is that if one pair (inboard or outboard) has purple wires and the one next to it has a blue wire, then the idea was one pair are fog lamps.  (I would presume all 4 have the white wire for the 5w parking filaments in the globes).  Just a curious detail...

Tim Stephens
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car
Post by: N Kahn on January 08, 2013, 07:28:11 PM
Tim, I'll check that but both lamps come on with the turn signals and they're just regular dual filament 1157s.
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car
Post by: Guidematic on January 09, 2013, 09:35:59 AM

I have had very little trouble with the later plastic pull downs. They have worked fine. The sole exception was the one on my '88 Eldorado. It was the switch that was defective, that little thing with the paddle on it. I took it apart, cleaned the contacts and put it back together. It has worked flawlessly since. That was 5 1/2 years ago.

The one on my '70 has worked great since I bought the car in 1993. And I had a '75 CDV where it didn't work when I got the car. I replaced it with one I bought from the wreckers and it worked great, but that one was really noisy compared to the others (the '70 is completely silent) but it did mean business. If anything got caught in there it would crush it.

Anyway, back to our regularly scheduler program....

Mike
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car
Post by: N Kahn on January 16, 2013, 05:17:15 PM
I got the grille all finished, I had the vertical pieces waterjetted. It's all straight now, it was a real mess, it looks great now, not perfect though, just like the rest of the car.


Before
(https://forums.cadillaclasalle.club/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi42.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fe327%2FRumblernads%2Fcaddybumper9.jpg&hash=7c924a7ec7f789bad3ac286559c565e8e6b987ef)
(https://forums.cadillaclasalle.club/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi42.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fe327%2FRumblernads%2Fcaddybumper10.jpg&hash=5b6517bf2e938861d7a1e06126594efbe4f0c177)
Almost flat from being hit.
(https://forums.cadillaclasalle.club/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi42.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fe327%2FRumblernads%2Fcaddydrive2_zps372a150c.jpg&hash=b158aeb2e31b4822489c7bf7533717f8cdbfaf5d)
After


(https://forums.cadillaclasalle.club/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi42.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fe327%2FRumblernads%2Fcaddygrillefinished2_zps09dc0c0d.jpg&hash=5ffbb597fba6a5a786d04a1f601b7a5146373c10)
(https://forums.cadillaclasalle.club/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi42.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fe327%2FRumblernads%2Fcaddygrillefinished3_zps8aff102f.jpg&hash=61bd608b28a919e4c1ca82aafaf16e80236b03b7)
(https://forums.cadillaclasalle.club/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi42.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fe327%2FRumblernads%2Fcaddygrillefinished_zpsf3c7cf6e.jpg&hash=28045f04a6498ac1bbdfd9121311a61894d906e5)
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car
Post by: Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621 on January 16, 2013, 05:22:48 PM
Incredible work Nadeem. That car is going to shine at Amelia Island.
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car
Post by: Barry on January 17, 2013, 12:27:38 AM
I so appreciate this being shared with us !
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car
Post by: Walter Youshock on January 17, 2013, 09:18:29 AM
Simply GORGEOUS!  I wish you'd bring this car to Boston for the Grand National.  It would be the highlight of the show.
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car
Post by: N Kahn on January 17, 2013, 02:40:48 PM
I found this neat model kit on ebay.
Found this rad kit, I've never seen one
(https://forums.cadillaclasalle.club/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi42.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fe327%2FRumblernads%2Fcaddykit_zpsf83cb6e8.jpg&hash=730b292474e85ec5dc7ea34d4942a4bf93d23a50)
(https://forums.cadillaclasalle.club/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi42.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fe327%2FRumblernads%2Fcaddykit2_zps1ad06d8d.jpg&hash=300a098bd4f425515ef2b1b399bae3e7ffb08453)
(https://forums.cadillaclasalle.club/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi42.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fe327%2FRumblernads%2Fcaddykit3_zps7c74420d.jpg&hash=514988c4f95da973fc1b86563204a60024ea1023)
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car
Post by: Jerry Puma on January 17, 2013, 08:29:47 PM
Palmer also made a 1964 Eldorado model.
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car
Post by: veesixteen on January 18, 2013, 03:28:30 PM
Both of these replicas (1961 and 1964) were part of my former collection of "all-Cadillac-LaSalle" replicas,  scale models and toys,  begun in 1964 and sold in 1989. They could be built up as "stock" or "custom" versions, like many 1/25 scale models from Jo-Han, a well-known plastic lit manufacturer  of that period.  The Palmer products were not the best quality plastic kits, nor very true to scale ... but they were still worthy of a spot in any Cadillac toy collection.  BTW. this entry has no real  bearing on the one concerning your rare, custom 1961-62 Cadillac Eldorado.
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car
Post by: Barry on January 18, 2013, 07:39:57 PM
Sorry to veer off topic, but here is my 61 Continental kit by the same company!
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car
Post by: N Kahn on January 19, 2013, 03:46:46 PM
That's a neat model, has the same ridiculous graphics as the Caddy one, thanks Barry.


Here's a video, a jarring one, of the Caddy's first drive in years under its in power, this was a week after Labor Day 2012.
http://static.ak.fbcdn.net/rsrc.php/v1/y2/r/5l8_EVv_jyW.swf?v=4611197192563&ev=0
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car
Post by: R Schroeder on January 19, 2013, 06:50:39 PM
All I got was log in or sign up.........ha
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car
Post by: N Kahn on January 19, 2013, 06:53:43 PM
Sorry, I think you have to be on facebook to be able to see it, I'll see if I can put it on youtube.
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car
Post by: R Schroeder on January 19, 2013, 07:01:20 PM
Sorry, I could have done that. I didn't see the Facebook image in the corner of the screen.
Roy
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car
Post by: N Kahn on January 19, 2013, 07:06:38 PM
got the grille installed, it looks great and it fits great, all straight.
(https://forums.cadillaclasalle.club/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi42.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fe327%2FRumblernads%2Fgrilleinstalled3_zps69adebee.jpg&hash=e844af3764e91cf8c76a6739f3c80c6ce653d3a2)
(https://forums.cadillaclasalle.club/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi42.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fe327%2FRumblernads%2Fgrilleinstalled2_zps4b61067e.jpg&hash=1c56bb1959180e41b49aece1e8e43a4d1fcf68b5)
(https://forums.cadillaclasalle.club/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi42.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fe327%2FRumblernads%2Fgrilleinstalled_zpsa64b94a6.jpg&hash=68f7db61479e0c007e486a16fc50af98711e84a7)
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car
Post by: R Schroeder on January 19, 2013, 07:14:11 PM
If you had not used the waterjet for cutting them out, it probably wouldn't have looked so nice. Much straighter.
Quite a car.
Roy
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car
Post by: N Kahn on January 20, 2013, 08:54:35 AM
Quote from: Roy Schroeder on January 19, 2013, 07:14:11 PM
If you had not used the waterjet for cutting them out, it probably wouldn't have looked so nice. Much straighter.
Quite a car.
Roy
No doubt, my home made attempt was a failure, the grille could not have been straightened without taking it apart, it was a daunting task, but it got done.
You can really see how damaged it was before in this pic.
(https://forums.cadillaclasalle.club/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi42.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fe327%2FRumblernads%2FGEDC0001.jpg&hash=8e197d9bdc2a12d9a77e197046626fc508139b06)
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car
Post by: R Schroeder on January 20, 2013, 09:19:52 AM
With a car like that, you want to take your time and do it right. It is coming out real nice.
Roy
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car
Post by: 76eldo on January 20, 2013, 11:16:56 AM
You have really done a lot of work and improving on this car is a short period of time.

Seems like a great future article for the Self Starter.

Brian
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car
Post by: N Kahn on January 21, 2013, 05:00:00 PM
Thanks for all your kind words.

Quote from: s55mercury66;8554260You do nice work Nads.

Thank you.

Here's the trunk half polished so you can see the difference a little bit of sweat and labor can do. It ain't perfect but it looks presentable.

And here's the taillight bezels all taken apart and polished, these pieces are all unique to this car, everything shined up really nicely, all the metal pieces are handmade from brass and beautifully chromed.
This piece has "for Rodgers" engraved on the backside as well as the 50110 SO number






Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car
Post by: Davidinhartford on January 21, 2013, 08:46:32 PM
Looking good!     
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car
Post by: Walter Youshock on January 22, 2013, 09:59:23 AM
Shame that wasn't adopted as the standard '61 taillight setup.  They REALLY make a difference.  Love the backup lamp between the stop lamps.
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car
Post by: N Kahn on January 22, 2013, 10:23:38 AM
The little reflectors in the middle of the tail lamp trim are stock Stimsonite pieces. I had a heck of a time getting the lenses out of the buckets, I don't think they were ever taken out. I'm gonna clean out the housings and install them today, I think they'll look so much better.
I really need to get the car up on a lift and pressure was the decades of mud and dirt off the underside, it's got what looks like clay on everything, is there clay in the Traverse City Michigan area?
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car
Post by: N Kahn on January 22, 2013, 08:20:09 PM
Here the lenses are all polished up and installed, not bad for 4 hours work and zero dollar expenditure.
(https://forums.cadillaclasalle.club/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi42.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fe327%2FRumblernads%2Fcaddyhousings_zpsc18d4d1b.jpg&hash=a1ee8f7d19e23fdeba14edbb9cdb3a44f8afd858)
(https://forums.cadillaclasalle.club/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi42.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fe327%2FRumblernads%2Fcaddylenses_zps295c6d5a.jpg&hash=602565d428ff071f5b952d62da5d95ada5952427)
(https://forums.cadillaclasalle.club/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi42.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fe327%2FRumblernads%2Fcaddybutt_zps61bf3c68.jpg&hash=6b69512ef689b87fc239a6c817b0a626f7a90a05)
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car
Post by: Davidinhartford on January 22, 2013, 09:45:00 PM
WOW!     Looks like new!    :D
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car
Post by: dadscad on January 23, 2013, 08:57:18 AM
I'll repeat what David Smith said.....WOW!!... A stunning improvement. That is one lucky car, to have fallen into your possession. Amazing what a little TLC will do.  ;)

Thank you so much, for sharing with us.

David
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car
Post by: DeVille68 on January 23, 2013, 02:00:36 PM
That's exactly what I always say. The old-car-hobby essentially is: take things apart, clean it and put it back together!   ;)

By the way: nice chrome! What product do you use?

Here in Switzerland, I use a product called "Mellerud" (www.mellerud.de). It works very well. I use a old fine cotton cloth to massage the compound into the surface, and then just wipe it of with a clean cotton cloth.
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car
Post by: N Kahn on January 23, 2013, 04:30:12 PM
Quote from: DeVille68 on January 23, 2013, 02:00:36 PM
That's exactly what I always say. The old-car-hobby essentially is: take things apart, clean it and put it back together!   ;)

By the way: nice chrome! What product do you use?

Here in Switzerland, I use a product called "Mellerud" (www.mellerud.de). It works very well. I use a old fine cotton cloth to massage the compound into the surface, and then just wipe it of with a clean cotton cloth.




It was all machine buffed and then sealed with wax.
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car
Post by: N Kahn on January 26, 2013, 05:54:00 PM
I don't know if I shoulda done this but I did, too late now. I took a good look at the cracked lacquer on the wood and realized that it was actually pretty good underneath, no splitting or anything, well one little chunk missing out of the passenger side.
The lacquer dissolved really easily with lacquer thinner and after a slight sanding I masked it up and painted it with Deft nitrocellulose lacquer which you can still get at Lowes.
I think it came out pretty good, I know it's not original anymore but would you not do an easy fix like this?
Check out the door pulls, man are they gorgeous.

(https://forums.cadillaclasalle.club/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi42.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fe327%2FRumblernads%2Fwoodrepaired2.jpg&hash=5ea54605af4b783e9634324919ebfc4d733b5ba0)
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Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car
Post by: N Kahn on January 29, 2013, 10:46:50 AM
I just picked up my bumper from Spacecoast Plating, as usual their work is impeccable.

(https://forums.cadillaclasalle.club/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi42.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fe327%2FRumblernads%2Fcaddybumper8.jpg&hash=18029d5463f50492e8e4161698b773ecaefe9526)
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Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car
Post by: Walter Youshock on January 29, 2013, 12:32:24 PM
GORGEOUS!  Good turn-around time, too.  Would you be willing to share about how much they charged?  It's been a long time since I had any chrome work done and doubt I could even afford it today.

One thing about plating--once you start, it's very hard to stop!  One new piece like that and everything else may seem out of place.  This being as custom as it is, it looks like the original plating was done to even higher than normal Cadillac standards.  Your taillights look perfect.
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car
Post by: N Kahn on January 29, 2013, 12:39:25 PM
$750, which is only about $100 more than they charged for my much smaller and lighter one piece California 59 Chevy.
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car
Post by: Walter Youshock on January 29, 2013, 12:51:09 PM
That's fairly reasonable.  I think I paid around $800 for the entire 4-piece bumper on my '57 and that was a good 15 years ago.  And it had a dent that needed to be repaired as well. 

Can't wait to see this car in person someday.
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car
Post by: N Kahn on January 29, 2013, 01:22:00 PM
I'm sure it woulda been double that if they had to fix the rust holes and the crack. They trust my work but most of the time they won't plate outside repairs.
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car
Post by: INTMD8 on January 29, 2013, 08:13:00 PM
Looks awesome! Chrome work appears to be excellent. I can see no waves or grinding marks, just looks liquid :-)
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car
Post by: Barry on January 29, 2013, 10:05:58 PM
Beautiful work ! I look forward to every new progress report !
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car
Post by: N Kahn on January 30, 2013, 09:13:01 AM
My friend Eric who runs Paragon Customs in Orlando made these stainless cones which are the basis for replicating the original hubcaps that were on my Caddy when it was first built, he did it from nothing but a foam core model and a simple drawing, he is quite skilled.


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Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car
Post by: N Kahn on January 30, 2013, 09:57:33 AM
I was up until 11:30 last night detailing and getting all the lights to work, it was worth it, this car hasn't been this shiny and tarnish free in 30 years. All the wood is relacquered and protected. I wish I had time to get the top redone but I don't and it's not something I want to tackle myself.
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Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car
Post by: R Schroeder on January 30, 2013, 04:38:00 PM
Man that car cleans up nice.
Very nice work.
Roy
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car
Post by: Doug Houston on February 01, 2013, 03:56:33 PM
I once had a '61 DeV convertible for a daily driver. It was Tunis beige, looking like this color, but surely a similar special color.

On the rear skegs, David Holls once told me that the tail lights were originally intended to be part of the skeg. As can be easily seen, a piece of bumper stock terminated that feature in production cars.

There was another interesting story about Walter Hagen and a 1030 Vi6 roadster that my father related. He knew Hagen. Won't tell about it now.
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car
Post by: N Kahn on February 01, 2013, 04:01:44 PM
Quote from: Doug Houston on February 01, 2013, 03:56:33 PM
I once had a '61 DeV convertible for a daily driver. It was Tunis beige, looking like this color, but surely a similar special color.

On the rear skegs, David Holls once told me that the tail lights were originally intended to be part of the skeg. As can be easily seen, a piece of bumper stock terminated that feature in production cars.

There was another interesting story about Walter Hagen and a 1030 Vi6 roadster that my father related. He knew Hagen. Won't tell about it now.

If you have any information about this car maybe having been Walter Hagen's I would love to know, I'm still coming up zip.
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car
Post by: N Kahn on February 07, 2013, 09:59:32 AM
Here's the start of the hubcaps, I got all the pieces waterjetted. I have to drill tap and polish each of these 56 ribs as well as polish and drill 12 rings. I gotta run a decorative rib down the center of each blade and then assemble everything to the stock hubcaps.
I've got my work cut out for me but I really wanna have a decent replica of the original caps fitted to this unique car.
(https://forums.cadillaclasalle.club/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi42.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fe327%2FRumblernads%2Fhubcaps_zps4f47fe79.jpg&hash=a2d262e4ffb39e4f131379065a60c95307cca01e)
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car
Post by: Quentin Hall on February 07, 2013, 05:38:52 PM
Nadeem, Are you gonna put jagged extendable axle shafts ala James Bond (and Wacky Racers) to eliminate any rival competitions tires on the judging field ? I still can't quite believe how well preserved this car is despite the apparent lack of knowledge of it's important history by the previous owner .
         I know this was one of the first discussions you had with the car, restore or preserve. Well you are doing both. I am so glad you are doing it this way because there are elements that would be lost forever with a show car 100 point resto.
         Hope to see the car in the metal one day. Regards. Q     
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car
Post by: veesixteen on February 08, 2013, 05:15:53 AM
Great work, Nadeem.  What are you using as a model for the missing wheel covers?  Do you have good photos of the originals? Are they anything like the selection of "Custom wheels from Show Cars" illustrated at the end of  the "Cadillac Database" - http://www.cadillacdatabase.org/Dbas_txt/mascotsg.htm ?
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car
Post by: N Kahn on February 08, 2013, 09:59:30 AM
Here are pic of the original caps.
Save the images and blow them up you can make out the details fairly well.

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Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car
Post by: INTMD8 on February 08, 2013, 10:57:51 AM
This car will be even more epic if you can get those hubcaps put together! Looking forward to the results.
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car
Post by: Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621 on February 08, 2013, 11:31:24 AM
The pics of the car in the famous GM courtyard are fascinating. I had only seen the one full broadside pic before. 

Nevertheless, it will be no small achievement if you can replicate the original design of those show hubcaps. Your ingenuity and steadfast dedication are truly inspirational. 

*Just out of curiosity, what do you think about the show caps, appearance wise? 
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car
Post by: N Kahn on February 08, 2013, 04:09:13 PM
Here's one built not screwed to the original cap or polished yet. they lack the delicacy and finesse of the originals and they are heavy. What am I gonna do?

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Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car
Post by: Quentin Hall on February 08, 2013, 05:31:11 PM
 N        They will look sensational once done but I think instead of watercut alum for the uprights, you should be folding out of .75 or even .55 mirror stainless to keep the look and also to keep the weight down. The  shape will be quite rigid and especially so once riveted together. If you are going to polish and chrome the alum then they will be heavier still , plus the cost and labour intensive. If you made a temp off the alum and fold it out you would carefully cut them by hand with tinsnips. Your sheemetal shop would easily fold them.
           There are nice steps in the design to fold inward tabs to get screw fixings into the inner ring and also to hide raw cut edges. Never easy but a good start. I probably wouldn't do 80mph down the turnpike with them on though regardless. No windtunnel tests were done on those babies I am sure.  I made a bunch of the  little SS fins for my old 59 Eldo caps which are held in with PK screws. If I wasn't so far away I'd say send me over a inner and outer ring and let me have a go. Does someone in the club own a Lear jet like Wayne Corrini's friends all seem to have ?? Q
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car
Post by: N Kahn on February 09, 2013, 08:10:44 AM
For sure that's the way to do it,  should have taken weight into account but I didn't, they'll will have to be static displays until I can make another set. I can reuse the rings and cones.
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car
Post by: N Kahn on February 09, 2013, 11:39:08 AM
I know they're only kinda close but they'll work, I'm going to screw them through the center of the original caps so that they can be removed and installed instantly for show display, they really are too heavy to run. Now I've got to polish and assemble them all, I'm in for some serious work.
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[IMG]http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e327/Rumblernads/hubcapsjt_zps770024b8.jpg[/IMG
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car
Post by: N Kahn on February 14, 2013, 03:11:13 PM
I slapped them on the car to see how they look, and they look alright, but even now with only 7 blades instead of 14 they still weigh about 4 lbs. I have A friend who does stainless kitchens and he's looking into making the blades out of 20GA stainless, this will knock the weight right down plus I can weld the pieces together and cut out all the hardware.

The hubcaps do need a 4th ring at the very back and upon closer inspection of the GM factory pictures I can see that they had one originally

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Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car
Post by: N Kahn on February 15, 2013, 09:06:34 AM
They didn't stick out this far, I admit failure, back to the drawing board.

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Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car
Post by: The Tassie Devil(le) on February 15, 2013, 07:42:45 PM
Quote from: N Kahn on February 15, 2013, 09:06:34 AM
They didn't stick out this far, I admit failure, back to the drawing board. 

Not a failure, but a "design compilation", and "Hub Cap Mark 1".

You will get it right by Mark 9. ;)

Bruce. >:D
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car
Post by: N Kahn on February 16, 2013, 09:38:36 AM
Quote from: The Tassie Devil(le) on February 15, 2013, 07:42:45 PM
Not a failure, but a "design compilation", and "Hub Cap Mark 1".

You will get it right by Mark 9. ;)

Bruce. >:D

Bruce, I hope it goes no further than Mk2 otherwise I'm headed for the loony bin.
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: Louis Smith on February 16, 2013, 12:46:15 PM
Quote from: David Smith on October 09, 2012, 10:52:05 PM
That's not very nice.   Nadeem has been very upfront with us with the documentation and restoration photos.  A fascinating read for us.   How often does a lost showcar surface?    And some of you have been less than polite here.

Gentlemen please be gentlemen.   

I am half way through reading this most interesting thread, and have a couple of comments and one question.

-It is with amusement that I have noticed some very minor bickering among some posters.  Suffice it to say, this is very common on most, if not all message boards and forums.  This is due mostly because of the lack of "emotion" being shown with the post.  I am sure that if people were sitting around a table with their favorite beverage, the bickering would be non existent.

-With all the unbelievable and superb posts, concerning this car, I think the nation would be in great appreciation if everyone form a task force to study the Kennedy assassination.  There has been more accurate and documented on this car, in the last 4 months, then in the last 50 years of the Kennedy assassination!  Might I suggest a meeting at the grassy knoll?

-When this piece of history is finally ready for showing and judging, what class will it be in?  The modified class?
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: Louis Smith on February 16, 2013, 12:51:57 PM
Quote from: Roy Schroeder on October 12, 2012, 07:39:41 AM
Yes, I was kidding about the license plates. Lets not get so serious.
Nice car and a very interesting story.
Roy

Even I run an illegal plate on the front of my car. 1978 plate.

Illegal license plate?  I think it might depend on what state you are in, and I don't mean the state of confusion.  Many states that have only a rear license plate, don't really care what is on the front license plate.  Many times you will see, what appears to be a real license plate, but really isn't.

Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: Louis Smith on February 16, 2013, 12:58:07 PM
Quote from: Roy Schroeder on November 18, 2012, 09:41:22 AM
I guess they like to make pickups all over the world.

Cuba?
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: Louis Smith on February 16, 2013, 01:07:09 PM
Quote from: N Kahn on December 25, 2012, 06:31:42 PM
Now I'm gonna go watch Mr. Bean with my young un.

Here's the hood bar done, I installed everything, it's too dark to take pics, I'll post some tomorrow.
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Ah Mister Bean.  A jolly fellow, that always had a solution for cars.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zavsd6etz_Q
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car
Post by: Louis Smith on February 16, 2013, 01:13:15 PM
Quote from: 76eldo on January 07, 2013, 10:31:22 PM
Power pull down refers to a motorized trunk latch.  You close the trunk gently and a latch grabs and pulls the trunk down to the fully closed position.  Pretty useless gadget and most fail at some point.

Brian

Useless?  I don't think so.  It greatly avoids the loud slamming sound and the minor vibration caused by zealous "slammers".  Remember this is a Cadillac, where convenience and comfort is paramount.  I would imagine, that like most of Cadillacs conveniences in the early years, there was a high percentage of failure.  I know of many Cadillacs in the 30-35 year range, when properly maintained, most of the convenience features still work.
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car
Post by: Louis Smith on February 16, 2013, 01:18:53 PM
Quote from: cadimec on January 08, 2013, 03:02:02 PM
Forgot my monker:

Tim Stephens

Its always a good idea to never forget ones monkey.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ee3L9BQQ4Gs
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car
Post by: Louis Smith on February 16, 2013, 01:24:47 PM
Quote from: N Kahn on January 26, 2013, 05:54:00 PM
I don't know if I shoulda done this but I did, too late now. I took a good look at the cracked lacquer on the wood and realized that it was actually pretty good underneath, no splitting or anything, well one little chunk missing out of the passenger side.
The lacquer dissolved really easily with lacquer thinner and after a slight sanding I masked it up and painted it with Deft nitrocellulose lacquer which you can still get at Lowes.
I think it came out pretty good, I know it's not original anymore but would you not do an easy fix like this?
Check out the door pulls, man are they gorgeous.

(https://forums.cadillaclasalle.club/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi42.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fe327%2FRumblernads%2Fwoodrepaired2.jpg&hash=5ea54605af4b783e9634324919ebfc4d733b5ba0)
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I like the little "badge" directly in front of the steering wheel saying "Eldorado".  A subtle reminder that you are driving the best that GM and Cadillac had to offer.  When Cadillac reinstated hood ornaments with the '71 Eldorado, I used to comment to my friends,that they were there as a constant reminder to them, that they were riding in a Cadillac.
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car
Post by: Louis Smith on February 16, 2013, 01:32:47 PM
Finally got through reading the entire thread, and besides being very interesting, found it very informative.  I definitely see a book deal here.  With all the documentation and pictures, it is an invaluable resource for anyone contemplating a complete restoration of their find.  It has been my observation that many times, and individual finds a reasonably nice looking and somewhat running classic and sort of thinks all they have to do is run to Pep Boys for some cleaner and waxes, followed by a trip to Earl Scheib.  Anyone that has done any degree of restoration, knows there is much more work and capital required, just to get the project looking pretty and running safely.
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car
Post by: N Kahn on February 18, 2013, 09:45:03 AM
OK, I cut about an inch from the bottom of the cones, I constructed a new blade from card stock, it took me a really long time to figure out where to make the slots for the rings and accurate spacing.

The blades will sit in the flat part of the stock hubcap, it's 13" in diameter.

I'm going to weld the blades to the cones and the hubcaps and then cut out the central portion of the caps, which will either become hats, woks or sconces.

After that the rings will be welded on. My friend Josh is going to laser cut the rings and blades for me.

This will work, I'm sure of it.
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This is a steel mock up in 22 GA just to see if it'll be rigid enough and light.
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Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car
Post by: N Kahn on February 23, 2013, 02:11:33 PM
I found this matchbook under the seat when I took the bottoms out to clean them, I also found another SO 50110 number as well as another DuPont comb, this makes 3 combs so far. Was this Walter Hagen's car? The only info I got back from the State of Michigan title search was info I already had. Somebody has to know definitively.
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Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car
Post by: Walter Youshock on February 23, 2013, 02:21:30 PM
Great that you are photographing every piece that has that number on it.  This is one lucky automobile. 

As for finding things:  my '57 had about 10 old Winston cigarette butts under the seat and about half a book of Green Stamps.  Would have been nice to find some vintage silver coins. 
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car
Post by: N Kahn on February 24, 2013, 08:57:00 AM
All the ashtrays had cigarette butts in them, everyone smoked back then.
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car
Post by: Blade on February 24, 2013, 11:14:05 AM
LOL I also just found that out in my new 59 Caddy, every place you sit has it's own ashtray with its own cigarette lighter ...   ???
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car
Post by: Blade on February 24, 2013, 11:30:02 AM
Quote from: Walter Youshock on February 23, 2013, 02:21:30 PM
Great that you are photographing every piece that has that number on it.  This is one lucky automobile. 

As for finding things:  my '57 had about 10 old Winston cigarette butts under the seat and about half a book of Green Stamps.  Would have been nice to find some vintage silver coins.

I actually found an official document from Cadillac Motors in the glove box dated June 1978, unfortunately the right half of it has been chewed up by mice - and I didn't yet have time to read the rest - but what I got out of it so far was what it seems an official service recall or something of that nature. I'll be starting to work on the car next weekend so I'll know more then.

Looks like you're having all kinds of fun with that car Nadeem. Congrats in getting it!
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car
Post by: N Kahn on February 24, 2013, 05:54:31 PM
My bumper ought to be coming back from Paul's chroming, I've got my work cut out for me.
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car
Post by: Barry on February 25, 2013, 08:05:41 AM
They actually had a recall issued on 59-62 Cadillacs concerning the cruise control around that time. I received one for my 60 Eldorado !
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car
Post by: N Kahn on February 25, 2013, 09:19:58 AM
What color is your cruise control knob, Barry?
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car
Post by: N Kahn on February 25, 2013, 01:45:04 PM
The bumpers and headlight buckets are back from Paul's Chroming, on schedule and utterly superb, the rest of the car is going to look rather shabby up against these pieces, to say I'm impressed would be an understatement. You get what you pay for and I'm glad I put some American people to work, this isn't spray on chrome rubbish, it's the real deal.

I did a great deal of repair work to these pieces, if I had them done outside the cost would have been even more, I'll go ahead and pat myself on the back, I think I deserve it.

(https://forums.cadillaclasalle.club/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi42.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fe327%2FRumblernads%2Fbumperpauls_zps82dcbc3a.jpg&hash=039387cf7316decdea95cc9de1f1488dbe963242)
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Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car
Post by: Walter Youshock on February 25, 2013, 02:02:21 PM
You deserve MORE than a pat on the back for what you've done for this car.  Now you're committed.  Before you know it, EVERYTHING will have new chrome...
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car
Post by: N Kahn on February 25, 2013, 02:08:29 PM
Quote from: Walter Youshock on February 25, 2013, 02:02:21 PM
You deserve MORE than a pat on the back for what you've done for this car.  Now you're committed.  Before you know it, EVERYTHING will have new chrome...

It was a tough call, the bumper had been hit multiple times, it was crumbling apart and the one headlight bucket was broken in two. I've been thinking about this car a lot and I think if time, money and patience permit I'd like to bring her back to the Le Mans time in her history. The grille and trunklid can be removed and saved, a new grille and a Le Mans badge would have to be made and a repaint in the correct light gold color, all doable, we'll see.
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car
Post by: Barry on February 25, 2013, 07:52:23 PM
The Cruise Control knob is chromed on my 61 Biarritz.
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car
Post by: veesixteen on February 26, 2013, 08:17:38 AM
I had a scary "incident" (but ONLY one) with our 1960 Eldorado Seville, around 1972. I thought the "Cruise Control" was a nifty little gadget; it avoided my having to worry about my speed, in areas were a limit was posted ... like in town! I was driving from Geneva airport into the city one day when the "Cruise Control" malfunctioned. Suddenly it seemed to take over full control of the car. It went into (or simply stayed) in the acceleration mode; no amount of braking would stop it from accelerating. I finally had to cut the engine to regain control of the vehicle. I never used the "CC" in town again!
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car
Post by: N Kahn on February 26, 2013, 08:28:17 AM
Quote from: Barry on February 25, 2013, 07:52:23 PM
The Cruise Control knob is chromed on my 61 Biarritz.

Mine's bright orange.
Quote from: veesixteen on February 26, 2013, 08:17:38 AM
I had a scary "incident" (but ONLY one) with our 1960 Eldorado Seville, around 1972. I thought the "Cruise Control" was a nifty little gadget; it avoided my having to worry about my speed, in areas were a limit was posted ... like in town! I was driving from Geneva airport into the city one day when the "Cruise Control" malfunctioned. Suddenly it seemed to take over full control of the car. It went into (or simply stayed) in the acceleration mode; no amount of braking would stop it from accelerating. I finally had to cut the engine to regain control of the vehicle. I never used the "CC" in town again!
Oh man, terrifying!!!!
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car
Post by: Blade on February 26, 2013, 12:12:52 PM
Quote from: Barry on February 25, 2013, 08:05:41 AM
They actually had a recall issued on 59-62 Cadillacs concerning the cruise control around that time. I received one for my 60 Eldorado !

Now I'm curious, I'll check it tonight see what I can make out of it ... it was the time the previous owner purchased it.
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car
Post by: Dan LeBlanc on February 26, 2013, 03:31:16 PM
Quote from: Barry on February 25, 2013, 08:05:41 AM
They actually had a recall issued on 59-62 Cadillacs concerning the cruise control around that time. I received one for my 60 Eldorado !

I believe it was a fix to add a plastic tie to tie the cables to the inner fender to stop them from chafing on either the exhaust or steering shaft - I can't remember which.

I have it downloaded somewhere.  I just hope it wasn't on my laptop that the HD crashed in.
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car
Post by: Dan LeBlanc on February 26, 2013, 06:47:35 PM
Found them.  Two topics covered in the Serviceman Bulletins relating to 1961 Cruise Control

Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car
Post by: Blade on February 26, 2013, 11:26:43 PM
OK, I pulled out that document, it is a recall for the pitman arm for the 59 and 60 models. There is one and a half paragraph completely surviving in which they state 'It is estimated that parts will be available at General Motors Parts Division by June 12, 1978 and that they will be available at your dealer within seven days after receipt of this order'.

Here is what got me really curious though. Just today noticed on the pillar there is a tag dated 1978 August 2 for lubrication and the mileage reads 74,906! Now my odometer reads 78,998 right now. And the fact that the only thing in the glove compartment was this one document from 1978. Was this car only driven 4000 miles since 1978? I haven't driven the car yet so I don't know if the odometer is working or not but assuming yes. Finding more mysteries every day  ???

Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car
Post by: Jeff Wilk on February 27, 2013, 06:24:04 AM
Dont ignore that recall. Part is readily available and easy to change

Jeff
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car
Post by: Blade on February 27, 2013, 08:15:34 AM
Quote from: Jeff Wilk on February 27, 2013, 06:24:04 AM
Dont ignore that recall. Part is readily available and easy to change

Jeff
LOL ... yeah probably still waiting for this car for 35 years now   :). Maybe I should take it into a dealership and see what they say ... :)
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car
Post by: N Kahn on February 27, 2013, 09:18:36 AM
No recalls for 61s?
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car
Post by: Dan LeBlanc on February 27, 2013, 04:02:21 PM
Nope. Just the two fixes for the cruise that I could find.
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car
Post by: N Kahn on February 27, 2013, 08:05:57 PM
It wasn't any fun putting the DA to this bumper
It's such a shame to do this, but I masked and sanded about 90% of the fresh chrome on the bumper for paint as it was done from the factory. I'll paint and install it this weekend if all goes well.
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In etch primer to help the paint stick.
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Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car
Post by: N Kahn on March 01, 2013, 07:55:49 PM
I started welding up the new stainless caps, they're much narrower and shallower than the first ones, not to mention much, much lighter, they still have to be ground and polished.

They will also sit about an inch further in once the centers of the original caps are cut out.
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Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car
Post by: N Kahn on March 02, 2013, 02:42:09 PM
The bumper came out really nice, I'm waiting for it to dry so I can put it on and it's chilly today.
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Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car
Post by: N Kahn on March 03, 2013, 08:31:21 PM
I've been working really hard today and with the help of my pal JT we got the bumper installed, there's no pictures because it's dark, I've been at it since 8 am.
I got two caps polished, not as well as I'd like, but I'm running out of time. I welded them to the original centers and I think they look pretty good.
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Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car
Post by: The Tassie Devil(le) on March 03, 2013, 10:01:42 PM
Man, you are getting it to the point where it is hard to tell the difference between the old and the new pictures.   If it wasn't for the 1961 date, one would say they were all taken now, in Black and White, and the rest Colour.

Bruce. >:D
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car
Post by: Davidinhartford on March 04, 2013, 06:28:21 AM
Wow!   Great work
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car
Post by: R Schroeder on March 04, 2013, 07:21:55 AM
I have to agree with Bruce. Its looking the same as it did years ago.
Very nice job on the caps too.
Roy
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car
Post by: N Kahn on March 04, 2013, 09:45:56 AM
There is a 4th ring missing from the caps, I had them cut wrong and I don't have the time to have them made right now, it will be done at a later date.
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car
Post by: Barry on March 04, 2013, 10:50:42 AM
You are doing an awesome job with the wheel covers and the entire project ! I look forward to every update ! I'm so happy you and this great car found each other !
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car
Post by: Series75 on March 05, 2013, 06:43:04 AM
Nadeem,
Found this on ebay total of three copies available!   

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Cadillac-1962-Detroit-Exhibit-Car-Show-8-x-10-Photograph-/350732047133?pt=Art_Photo_Images&hash=item51a942531d

Shows your car at the 1962 Detroit Auto Show on the turntable.   - Tom CLC#6866
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car
Post by: N Kahn on March 05, 2013, 07:00:30 AM
The bumper is hung, all lights installed, everything's working.
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Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car
Post by: N Kahn on March 05, 2013, 07:02:55 AM
Tom that picture is not from Detroit, it's Chicago, it's the same pic as my avatar, the guy who's selling it is misinformed.
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car
Post by: Davidinhartford on March 05, 2013, 07:21:15 AM
Looks great Nadeem!

Next stop Amelia Island? 
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car
Post by: Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621 on March 05, 2013, 08:31:13 AM
The talent & expertise in the preservation of this historic car is simply beyond words. The wheel cover replication and bumper restoration are incredible. I eagerly look forward to seeing this special car one day.
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car
Post by: N Kahn on March 05, 2013, 09:05:36 AM
Quote from: David Smith on March 05, 2013, 07:21:15 AM
Looks great Nadeem!

Next stop Amelia Island? 


Yes David, I'm very nervous, I've never had a car in a show this prestigious, I hope the car holds its own amongst the others. I'm very excited, so are my wife and kids. I'll take lots of pictures.
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car
Post by: Davidinhartford on March 05, 2013, 10:20:37 AM
Quote from: N Kahn on March 05, 2013, 09:05:36 AM
Yes David, I'm very nervous, I've never had a car in a show this prestigious, I hope the car holds its own amongst the others. I'm very excited, so are my wife and kids. I'll take lots of pictures.

No worries.  Joe Bortz is bringing his unrestored 1955 LaSalle II sedan.  So you don't need to have a 100 point car to be there. 

Your Lemans will look like a Million dollars there.
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car
Post by: N Kahn on March 05, 2013, 01:31:45 PM
I can't wait to meet Joe, I've only talked to him on the phone. I'm excited to see the La Salle move under its own power for the first time ever.
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car
Post by: Quentin Hall on March 05, 2013, 06:13:28 PM
Wow Nadeem,
          What can I say about the car?. . . Nothing! 13500 odd views says it all.
           Hopefully about 1.30 pm on show day you might finally get a minute to sit back and relax. Initially you may have been damn lucky but everything after that has been your hard work. Have fun. I wish I could be there. I figure my Aussie mate Martyn (technically he's a Kiwi) will be there with the maroon Tucker. Say hello for me. Q
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car
Post by: Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621 on March 05, 2013, 07:02:12 PM
Quote from: N Kahn on March 05, 2013, 09:05:36 AM
Yes David, I'm very nervous, I've never had a car in a show this prestigious, I hope the car holds its own amongst the others. I'm very excited, so are my wife and kids. I'll take lots of pictures.

It is they who ought to be nervous!  ;D
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car
Post by: N Kahn on March 06, 2013, 03:19:59 PM
I bought these wreaths on ebay, they're for an 80s Cadillac wire wheel but they look just like the ones that were in the original caps, I made a center cap and put them in the center of the hubcap, they look great.
(https://forums.cadillaclasalle.club/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi42.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fe327%2FRumblernads%2Fcadillacwreath2_zps9bf30ef7.jpg&hash=fe734197d5eabda861f6eb0ef45b7809001de3be)
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Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car
Post by: Blade on March 06, 2013, 08:29:54 PM
More interesting pictures from the 1962 Chicago show:

http://www.chicagoautoshow.com/show_history/default.aspx?d=1960&y=1962
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car
Post by: N Kahn on March 12, 2013, 09:19:46 AM
I'm home, I was placed right next to the 1959 Cadillac Cyclone which was the inspiration for the double fins which first appeared on the 1960 Cadillac Eldorado Brougham and then all 1961 Caddies. This, my friends, was an honor I can't adequately put into words.
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My whole family got to drive up and down A1A in the bright sunshine after the show was done, it was truly unbelievable.
Things on the agenda now are to fix this front end shimmy, the tranny leak and rebuild the carburetor before I get to really drive her a good long way.

I have lots more pics to sort through. I met Yann Saunders, Steve Plunkett and many other Caddy aficionados. The Cadillac people were really good to us. I doubt there will ever be a display of this many Caddy one offs in one place ever again.
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car
Post by: R Schroeder on March 12, 2013, 10:14:33 AM
The car looks fantastic.
Roy
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car
Post by: N Kahn on March 12, 2013, 10:22:43 AM
Thank you Roy


More pics
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The interior of the 56 Cadillac Eldorado Brougham town car
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The whole family and my wife and daughter
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Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car
Post by: R Schroeder on March 12, 2013, 10:31:11 AM
Very nice. The proud owner ,with a beautiful family and a beautiful car.
Looks like the weather was right in there too.
Roy
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car
Post by: Barry on March 12, 2013, 10:37:57 PM
Your pics make me so happy ! Did you by chance see the top work on the Blue 58 Raindrop Car ?
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car
Post by: N Kahn on March 13, 2013, 10:18:36 AM
Quote from: Barry on March 12, 2013, 10:37:57 PM
Your pics make me so happy ! Did you by chance see the top work on the Blue 58 Raindrop Car ?

It doesn't work, there's a plain stainless cover over where the sensor was, some of the mechanisms remain but I think it would be difficult to make it operable again, the car is nevertheless stunning with its bucket seats and console, I wish I had taken more pictures but I was swamped answering questions.
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car
Post by: Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621 on March 13, 2013, 11:57:20 AM
I'll bet you were being one of the most recent concept cars to come to light. Looks like a great time all around and for your family.

And to think - this whole tale began as a result of a search for a stock '61 Sedan.   ;D
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car
Post by: Blade on April 02, 2013, 01:58:20 AM
Congrats Nadeem! Matter of fact I was also just going to tell you that I was browsing the net today for more pics on the '59s and came across the Cyclone with your car next to it! I said: hey, I recognize that person and car, that's Nadeem with his 61 show car!   :)  So happy for you!!

Also want to congratulate on the beautiful work you have done so far to that car. Keep up the good work!
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: cadillacmike68 on April 02, 2013, 07:46:31 AM
Quote from: N Kahn on September 28, 2012, 10:26:53 PM
This is my last word to you Ray, the two sheets above came from researchers at GM, I couldn't get anything from GM, that's what I meant to say, it took someone who knows people there to get the job done, I have their names and email addresses. I myself took no stock in the information I was given with the car and none of it has panned out. I feel you're upset because I turned down your $30,000 offer to buy the car, why would you have wanted the car then when there was very little documentation and now that there's a ton it's some sort of fake?

I really don't want to dignify you further with any comments, good day.

I'm still going through this thread. As Spock would say; Fascinating...

Well said Nadeem! some folks can't give it a rest. (like my wife - ohhh i'm gonna get it for that one for sure  :o ).
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car
Post by: N Kahn on April 02, 2013, 09:04:20 AM
I've been enjoying driving it, this front end problem is nagging though. I can't see anything visibly loose on it. The car drives fine until everything's gets warm and then the shimmy starts, heat related maybe? I need to dig deeper and fix it, I don't want to replace everything if it only needs some parts and I'd like to drive her a good long distance.
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car
Post by: cadillacmike68 on April 02, 2013, 10:51:23 AM
Quote from: N Kahn on April 02, 2013, 09:04:20 AM
I've been enjoying driving it, this front end problem is nagging though. I can't see anything visibly loose on it. The car drives fine until everything's gets warm and then the shimmy starts, heat related maybe? I need to dig deeper and fix it, I don't want to replace everything if it only needs some parts and I'd like to drive her a good long distance.

Check your control arm bushings. They can look tight but move under strain. Strange handling if they are not good, sort of like Mr Toad's wild ride! Could be the steering gears as well.

Ar you in or near Orlando? I'm over by Tampa - when I'm home.

What you have done in such a short time is absolutely amazing.  Your varied and accomplished skills are unsurpassed. Are / were you a master body finisher & welder?  I've not seen someone do that much on something that quickly.


Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: cadillacmike68 on April 02, 2013, 11:55:41 AM
Quote from: N Kahn on September 07, 2012, 12:44:53 PM
Trust me, I am more than capable of restoring this car, including repairing the front bumper, I have taken a 56 Chevy wagon three piece bumper welded it into a one piece, closed the bumper bolt holes and had it chromed by Spacecoast Plating, who are the best.
I cannot do the top or upholstery.
I've been doing this stuff for a long time and I'm not letting it out my hands and into a shop. 

Looking back at this statement, you were absolutely correct in your assessment of your capabilities and of the car's potential!  :)
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: N Kahn on April 02, 2013, 03:14:17 PM
Quote from: cadillacmike68 on April 02, 2013, 11:55:41 AM
Looking back at this statement, you were absolutely correct in your assessment of your capabilities and of the car's potential!  :)

I'm no pro, I'm very enthusiastic, I have basic tools only. I strive to be better than I am but i'll never be as good as the ones I truly admire.
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car
Post by: okccadman on April 02, 2013, 06:23:08 PM
Nadeem, you have done more work in less time than a lot of us ever dream of being able to do!  On top of that your work is great quality as well!  I think you greatly underestimate your skill.  I don't know anyone who could take a barn find like that and have it one of the stars in a Concours in such a short period of time.  Hopefully its place among its concept car cousins has helped squash any doubts some folks had abouts its true provenance.  Keep up the good work and keep inspiring the rest of us.
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car
Post by: N Kahn on April 03, 2013, 11:01:12 AM
Quote from: cadillacmike68 on April 02, 2013, 10:51:23 AM
Check your control arm bushings. They can look tight but move under strain. Strange handling if they are not good, sort of like Mr Toad's wild ride! Could be the steering gears as well.

Ar you in or near Orlando? I'm over by Tampa - when I'm home.

What you have done in such a short time is absolutely amazing.  Your varied and accomplished skills are unsurpassed. Are / were you a master body finisher & welder?  I've not seen someone do that much on something that quickly.

I'm in Orlando, if you are near by, stop in, this goes for any and all members here.
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car
Post by: cadillacmike68 on April 03, 2013, 01:44:20 PM
OK - when i get back home.

We'd like to have you in the regional chapter of the CLC as well. Let me see if i can get someone to write to you via here.
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car
Post by: N Kahn on April 03, 2013, 04:49:24 PM
Sure, my email is nuk@k2services.com
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car
Post by: 76eldo on April 04, 2013, 09:22:52 AM
Since this whole topic was moved into the restoration area I have not been keeping up. 

I just caught up and saw the photos of the car at the show.

From finding this car on Craig's list and the original photos, the transformation of this special car in such a short time period is amazing.  You really did an amazing job and should be very proud.

Any chance you might have the car at the Boston National?

Brian
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car
Post by: N Kahn on April 04, 2013, 12:28:27 PM
Quote from: 76eldo on April 04, 2013, 09:22:52 AM
Since this whole topic was moved into the restoration area I have not been keeping up. 

I just caught up and saw the photos of the car at the show.

From finding this car on Craig's list and the original photos, the transformation of this special car in such a short time period is amazing.  You really did an amazing job and should be very proud.

Any chance you might have the car at the Boston National?

Brian


I wish Brian, but I just can't swing it this year, I'd like to go since I've never been to Boston.
Title: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car for Sale
Post by: J.C. on March 26, 2016, 04:25:58 PM
Quote from: N Kahn on September 28, 2012, 02:30:06 PMit was originally designated the Le Mans(https://forums.cadillaclasalle.club/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi42.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fe327%2FRumblernads%2F61-3.jpg&hash=197c096aec4a7de539f1c1af6c0f4acd94ee7852)

I've seen a picture dated May 19, 1961 of this car with a "Le Mans" script plate on the rear just to the left of the passenger's-side taillight.  So, I'm not doubting that someone at Cadillac thought, for some reason, to call this car a Le Mans.  But Cadillac didn't mass produce a car in the 1960s called Le Mans that I'm aware of.  Does anyone have any information about discussions among - or plans made by - Cadillac's people to build a test model, a show car, a concept car, or a car for general production called "Le Mans?" 

Google searching through the 'Net I found references to Cadillac's Le Mans concept car of 1953, but I could find nothing about a Cadillac Le Mans during the 1960s.  Furthermore, according to Wikipedia, Pontiac offered a Le Mans trim package in 1961 and then added a convertible version in 1962, eventually making a separate Le Mans model in 1963.  So, given these circumstances, can anyone suggest why anyone at Cadillac may have thought to call Nadeem's car a Le Mans?  It seems to me that doing so would be like, today, seeing Cadillac coming up with a car with design elements it wanted to test and show and calling that car a Cadillac LaCrosse, even though, as we know, Buick already sells a model with that name...
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car
Post by: J.C. on March 26, 2016, 04:38:24 PM
Perhaps the 1961 Pontiac was well into production and the Le Mans name was attached to it very late - once this happened, Cadillac dropped the Le Mans name from the test car but left the script Le Mans plate on it up to or even after May of 1961, just making sure to remove it by the time the car was shown at the Chicago Auto Show in 1962.  It just seems odd to me that anyone would've thought to call the car anything other than an Eldorado...
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car
Post by: 65riviera on March 27, 2016, 12:06:10 AM
Just read the most (I'll admit to some skimming) thread over a couple days.

LeMans name replaced "The Solid Gold Cadillac" that some of the builders had named this and one other just like it - according to one unreliable(?) source that the owner shared.

A more reasonable explanation is that GM did this sort of regularly with their concepts and prototypes.  If memory serves, Cadillac also had an El Camino and I would guess there were various name switches here and there between GM designs.


And a comment on this ancient thread- I'm new to the forum, but this was an excellent read.  I appreciated the praise and criticism the owner received and believe both contributed to an excellent preservation/restoration.  I'm quite envious of the owner but am glad its being well taken care of.
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car
Post by: N Kahn on April 22, 2016, 09:11:15 AM
I think the Le Mans name will remain a mystery. There were many fanciful names bandied about for concepts and one offs, names were changed, colors were changed. The whole realm is fascinating as well as confounding, that's what makes it so much fun.


Thanks J.C for the pictures you took and the time you spent.
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car
Post by: 2manycars on June 04, 2016, 05:35:56 PM
I'm fairly new here too, and haven't checked in in a while. I found this thread, and it was an incredibly fascinating read.

Nadeem, I must compliment you on the fine work you did to preserve this car. It's a lot more than I could have done, and I've been playing around with cars for most of my life. I think the car wound up with just the right owner for it.

Have you done anything else with it since, or are you just enjoying the car now?
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car
Post by: Jon S on June 05, 2016, 10:49:51 AM
Just found this thread. 

Besides the Lemans (Pontiac) name discussion did anyone else notice the corregated britework on the rockers is precisely what Pontiac used on the 1966 Grand Prix and Bonneville?

Also, the shift knob/button is the same as the 1966 Pontiac Grand Prix and the center console very similar.
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car
Post by: N Kahn on July 12, 2016, 12:52:32 PM
Quote from: 2manycars on June 04, 2016, 05:35:56 PM
I'm fairly new here too, and haven't checked in in a while. I found this thread, and it was an incredibly fascinating read.

Nadeem, I must compliment you on the fine work you did to preserve this car. It's a lot more than I could have done, and I've been playing around with cars for most of my life. I think the car wound up with just the right owner for it.

Have you done anything else with it since, or are you just enjoying the car now?

Just enjoying it, she gets regular use, just pottering around town.
Title: Re: 1961 Eldorado Concept Motorama Show Car
Post by: Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621 on July 12, 2016, 03:26:11 PM
I just scanned through this entire thread all over again. What started as a Craigslist ad for a "1961 Eldorado Convertible" needing restoration soon turned into a roller coaster ride of twists and turns ultimately resulting in an Amelia Island feature car.

As it's just under 4 years since this thread began, how about a fresh set of photos of 50110 as it appears today Nadeem.  8) 

I hope you will be able to show it at next years' GN in Washington DC.