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Halogen headlights in older cars

Started by Sconnors, August 20, 2017, 09:16:05 AM

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Sconnors

I recently saw an article stating it wasn't the best idea to put halogen headlights in older vehicles. I have a 1968 Cadillac Sedan de Ville and it has the original headlights except for one which someone replaced with a halogen light. Is this safe to have these in an older car?
Thanks for any input
Scott
Scott Connors

cadillac ken

I can't see any drawbacks.  I have sealed beams in my '65 that are over the counter Halogen.  Have for years.  Also have converted my 1937 Cadillac OEM headlights (using the original buckets, lenses, trim rings and reflectors) to Halogen H-4 bulbs (it is now a 12volt system).  What exactly did the article say was the issue making it "not the best idea"? 

67_Eldo

I'm working on the electrical system of my 67 Eldorado right now. My goal is to augment 50-year-old wiring with another (shadow) electrical network that can distribute the greater power required by modern electrical devices (e.g. halogen headlights, higher-power audio, and maybe a few servos to replace things like vacuum-operated headlight doors and trunk openers).

If you plug halogen headlights into the original sealed-beam sockets, they'll probably work fine ... for a while. But halogens (and LED headlights) pull more amps through the wires and switches than their forefathers. That means that you can cook contact points more quickly in your headlight switch, for example.

The solution I'm going with is to add a headlight harness that uses relays to route power from the battery to the (new) headlights. You plug the existing switch into the proper connector in the harness which, in turn, uses the original switch to control the small amount of power running to the relays instead of the large amount of power that would otherwise be running through the switch. When the original switch controls the relays, that switch should last forever because of the reduced load.

The harness I ordered from Amazon for this job is "4-Headlight Relay Wiring Harness H4 Headlamp Light Bulb Ceramic Socket Plugs Set." It was $22. I have yet to install it so I can't tell you if it will fail right away. But for $22, it was cheap enough to save me the labor of getting the parts and assembling it myself. I've attached a picture of it below.

Beyond headlights, I'm also planning on installing a number of other power-consuming electronics in the near future. I could just tap into the fuse box, but it wouldn't be too long before I was either blowing fuses, melting wires, or frying ancient-and-expensive switches. So I'm working on a shadow distribution box that will allow me to go nuts with gadgetry without completely cooking the original Cadillac wiring harness.

And as someone who was finally able to remove the headlight switch from my Eldorado two days ago, I can say, without a doubt, that replacing switches -- or messing around anywhere under the dashboard at all -- is something you do *not* want to do unless it is absolutely necessary.

I added a pic of my first power-distribution prototype below. Moving from right to left, the black thing with the red buttons is a 100-amp circuit breaker. The lead from the battery will connect to the input of the circuit breaker. This will hopefully prevent any huge electrical shorts from destroying the car since this box will be mounted as close to the battery as possible.

Moving to the lower-center of the pic, the shiny cylinder sprouting four terminals is a 200-amp relay. (I'm not planning on pulling 100 or 200 amps, but what the heck.) The top two terminals on the relay will connect to the ACC option on the ignition switch. That means that all accessories that depend on this box for power will be shut off when the ignition key is in the Off position.

The smaller, rectangular block to the left of the big relay is a fuse box. The two purple things attached to the top of that block are 60-amp fuses. This is a typical aftermarket fuse setup used by the mega-car-audio crowd these days. 60-amp fuses are the *smallest* fuses available for this type of fuse box.

At the center-top of the pic is a conventional fuse box. Originally I was going to run one of the outputs from the other fuse box to this one to handle smaller distributions of juice. In my latest iteration of this setup, I had to remove the secondary fuse box because, with a lid on, it took up too much space. If I need it, I'll put it somewhere else.

I am 3D printing the bottom of the enclosure and the lid. The 3D filament I'm using is ApolloX ASA plastic. It should be able to stand up to the under-hood heat and abuse. (I printed a new cover for my windshield washer pump using ApolloX a month ago and it seems to be holding up well.)

I added an aluminum layer to the distribution-box chassis for added strength and as a potential heat sink for the big relay. I don't know how hot that relay will get, but the aluminum plate should be overkill.

That's my very long-winded way of saying that relays are good for controlling halogen headlights on older cars. :-)

TJ Hopland

Has anyone done a side by side comparison of the amp draw?   I keep forgetting to do it when I have both types handy.   It would be interesting to see actual numbers and seems odd that you never do.
StPaul/Mpls, MN USA

73 Eldo convert w/FiTech EFI
80 Eldo Diesel
90 CDV
And other assorted stuff I keep buying for some reason

67_Eldo

I agree. Lighting specs never *quite* match up. Thanks, marketers!

However, if you can find it, the wattage rating is the one I pay attention to (as far as electrical-system load goes).

I estimate that the original 1967 sealed beams (and I'm generally assuming this to be true up to 1978, when halogens were legalized in the USA), use about 35 to 40 watts each.

Halogens (or at least the ones that interest me) seem to start at about 55 watts and can run to 100W or more. LEDs are all over the place, wattage-wise.

Jumping from 40W to 55W probably isn't catastrophic, but I'd rather preserve what's left of my old system for as long as possible than to fry it all and start over. :-)

Sconnors

Do they sell non halogen headlights for these cars??
Scott Connors


Highwayman68

Quote from: 67_Eldo on August 20, 2017, 11:04:14 AM
I'm working on the electrical system of my 67 Eldorado right now. My goal is to augment 50-year-old wiring with another (shadow) electrical network that can distribute the greater power required by modern electrical devices (e.g. halogen headlights, higher-power audio, and maybe a few servos to replace things like vacuum-operated headlight doors and trunk openers).

If you plug halogen headlights into the original sealed-beam sockets, they'll probably work fine ... for a while. But halogens (and LED headlights) pull more amps through the wires and switches than their forefathers. That means that you can cook contact points more quickly in your headlight switch, for example.

The solution I'm going with is to add a headlight harness that uses relays to route power from the battery to the (new) headlights. You plug the existing switch into the proper connector in the harness which, in turn, uses the original switch to control the small amount of power running to the relays instead of the large amount of power that would otherwise be running through the switch. When the original switch controls the relays, that switch should last forever because of the reduced load.

The harness I ordered from Amazon for this job is "4-Headlight Relay Wiring Harness H4 Headlamp Light Bulb Ceramic Socket Plugs Set." It was $22. I have yet to install it so I can't tell you if it will fail right away. But for $22, it was cheap enough to save me the labor of getting the parts and assembling it myself. I've attached a picture of it below.

Beyond headlights, I'm also planning on installing a number of other power-consuming electronics in the near future. I could just tap into the fuse box, but it wouldn't be too long before I was either blowing fuses, melting wires, or frying ancient-and-expensive switches. So I'm working on a shadow distribution box that will allow me to go nuts with gadgetry without completely cooking the original Cadillac wiring harness.

And as someone who was finally able to remove the headlight switch from my Eldorado two days ago, I can say, without a doubt, that replacing switches -- or messing around anywhere under the dashboard at all -- is something you do *not* want to do unless it is absolutely necessary.

I added a pic of my first power-distribution prototype below. Moving from right to left, the black thing with the red buttons is a 100-amp circuit breaker. The lead from the battery will connect to the input of the circuit breaker. This will hopefully prevent any huge electrical shorts from destroying the car since this box will be mounted as close to the battery as possible.

Moving to the lower-center of the pic, the shiny cylinder sprouting four terminals is a 200-amp relay. (I'm not planning on pulling 100 or 200 amps, but what the heck.) The top two terminals on the relay will connect to the ACC option on the ignition switch. That means that all accessories that depend on this box for power will be shut off when the ignition key is in the Off position.

The smaller, rectangular block to the left of the big relay is a fuse box. The two purple things attached to the top of that block are 60-amp fuses. This is a typical aftermarket fuse setup used by the mega-car-audio crowd these days. 60-amp fuses are the *smallest* fuses available for this type of fuse box.

At the center-top of the pic is a conventional fuse box. Originally I was going to run one of the outputs from the other fuse box to this one to handle smaller distributions of juice. In my latest iteration of this setup, I had to remove the secondary fuse box because, with a lid on, it took up too much space. If I need it, I'll put it somewhere else.

I am 3D printing the bottom of the enclosure and the lid. The 3D filament I'm using is ApolloX ASA plastic. It should be able to stand up to the under-hood heat and abuse. (I printed a new cover for my windshield washer pump using ApolloX a month ago and it seems to be holding up well.)

I added an aluminum layer to the distribution-box chassis for added strength and as a potential heat sink for the big relay. I don't know how hot that relay will get, but the aluminum plate should be overkill.

That's my very long-winded way of saying that relays are good for controlling halogen headlights on older cars. :-)

I like your setup, it is very clean and should not be too noticeable once it is installed.
1968 Fleetwood Purchased in 1981

J. Gomez

Quote from: 67_Eldo on August 20, 2017, 11:39:51 AM
I agree. Lighting specs never *quite* match up. Thanks, marketers!

However, if you can find it, the wattage rating is the one I pay attention to (as far as electrical-system load goes).

I estimate that the original 1967 sealed beams (and I'm generally assuming this to be true up to 1978, when halogens were legalized in the USA), use about 35 to 40 watts each.

Halogens (or at least the ones that interest me) seem to start at about 55 watts and can run to 100W or more. LEDs are all over the place, wattage-wise.

Jumping from 40W to 55W probably isn't catastrophic, but I'd rather preserve what's left of my old system for as long as possible than to fry it all and start over. :-)

You can check most of the light bulb references here -> http://www.donsbulbs.com/

It shows the standard H5001 incandescent/halogen seal beam to be rated at 55W and the H5006 dual beam at 35W/35W.

If you take the H5001 rated at 55W the draw at 12V would be about 4.5A.

Most likely you existing wire gauge would be 16AWG ??? and the length may well be around 8ft-10ft give or take. At that length the voltage drop at the source would be about 0.2V which would increase your draw to 4.6A. The maximum length for the 16AWG with that load of 55W would be about 13ft. Again this is formulation when a new wire is in place, age wire tend to deteriorate depending on several factors so the formulation would change drastically.

Using a relay(s) closes to the load as you are in the process to do  8) , is the best option to safeguard two things the “old wire” and the “headlight switch” and it also off loads the headlight switch.

Good luck..! 
J. Gomez
CLC #23082

Glen

I’ve been running halogen headlights in my 68 ELDO since the late 80s with no ill effects.  But I use the Twilight Sentinel almost exclusively.  That bypasses the headlight switch. 
I have been thinking of installing relays on the headlights just to reduce the load on the wiring and boost the current to the lights.   
Glen Houlton CLC #727 
CLCMRC benefactor #104

The Tassie Devil(le)

I have been running Halogen globes on my cars, and use relays to increase the power to the lights, and to save the switch from being overloaded.

With the Fibre Optics, I carefully drilled a hole in the metal base, and inserted the brass ferrule into it, and everything works perfectly.

Bruce. >:D
'72 Eldorado Convertible (LHD)
'70 Ranchero Squire (RHD)
'74 Chris Craft Gull Wing (SH)
'02 VX Series II Holden Commodore SS Sedan
(Past President Modified Chapter)

Past Cars of significance - to me
1935 Ford 3 Window Coupe
1936 Ford 5 Window Coupe
1937 Chevrolet Sports Coupe
1955 Chevrolet Convertible
1959 Ford Fairlane Ranch Wagon
1960 Cadillac CDV
1972 Cadillac Eldorado Coupe

cadman56

Maybe I was lucky?  I ran halogens in my restored 67 Eldorado for years and did a lot of night driving with it.  Never got wires hot or melted.
When I restored my 56 convertible I made new harnesses front to rear and ran halogen headlights and 2057 tail lights.  Never had a problem.
Yes, if I were to do it again I would add the relays as that would be a very easy thing to do.
My current 56 Seville will be left with stock lights as it will not be driven at night.
Larry
1956 Cadillac Coupe deVille (sold)
1956 Cadillac Convertible (sold)
1956 Cadillac Eldorado Seville (sold)
1967 Cadillac Eldorado (sold)
1968 Cadillac Convertible (Sold)
1991 Cadillac Fleetwood Brougham dElegance
Larry Blanchard CLC #5820

bcroe

I don't believe the lights can be "too good".  Back when I drove the 62 about
40,000 miles a year, I tried a lot of stuff, not necessarily legal.  The aircraft
landing light is still here.  I found the MOST IMPORTANT things, are to have
the headlights accurately aimed, and quite clean. 

I changed everything to Halogens when they came out, nearly as good as
the best other things I had tried.  The current drain wasn't so high; with
short wire runs voltage drop wasn't a problem.  Better to check just where
the voltage regulator was set.  BUT connectors and switches get worse and
worse with age.  Using relays to unload precious (unobtainium) switches is
a good idea.  A lot of connectors got replaced with a solder joint and heat
shrink here.  Silicon grease surrounding contacts helps reduce oxidation. 

I see a lot of huge alternators installed, with a CONTINUOUS rating equal
to the peak draw of some low duty cycle items like audio.  In my opinion
this is a waste of effort, unless the vehicle spends a lot of time at idle. 
Bruce Roe

Highwayman68

Have you laid the new harness out in the car to see if it will reach all of the headlights yet?
1968 Fleetwood Purchased in 1981

67_Eldo

I have not. (I'm trying to work on too many things at once!)

Eyeballing it, I think the harness length will be OK.

However, if I decide to route the harness along a convoluted path, then I'll probably have to splice in some additional length. I've got plenty of fat wire on hand for just such emergencies. :-)

GBrown #8092

I used Cibie European headlights in my 81 Olds 98  from almost new, for over 10 years. Never had any problems.
However, for 96 B and C  (Fleetwood is a "C" body) bodies, many of those in my other club have experienced melted harnesses when trying to use higher wattage bulbs. If you are dealing with one of that vintage PM me and I'll try and find the tech article concerning how to deal with it on those newer cars

Glenn

Highwayman68

Quote from: 67_Eldo on August 27, 2017, 06:22:16 PM
I have not. (I'm trying to work on too many things at once!)

Eyeballing it, I think the harness length will be OK.

However, if I decide to route the harness along a convoluted path, then I'll probably have to splice in some additional length. I've got plenty of fat wire on hand for just such emergencies. :-)

Have you gotten around to installing the harness? How did it fit?
1968 Fleetwood Purchased in 1981

67_Eldo

I have not yet installed it. I got sidetracked when I hit the vinyl top problem that kept getting worse.

I did check it for length again and it seems sufficient if I run it along the upper radiator mounting lip. But if I decide to follow some crazy cable-routing plan (e.g. run the cable down along the bottom of the radiator) I'd have to make an extension.

For me these days, it is body work for the foreseeable future. Waaah!

Mike Josephic CLC #3877

Quote from: Highwayman68 on August 20, 2017, 06:24:35 PM
I like your setup, it is very clean and should not be too noticeable once it is installed.

I also like it.  Shows some creative and knowledgeable thinking.
Nice work!

Mike
1955 Cadillac Eldorado
1973 Cadillac Eldorado
1995 Cadillac Seville
2004 Escalade
1997 GMC Suburban 4X4, 454 engine, 3/4 ton
custom built by Santa Fe in Evansville, IN
2011 Buick Lucerne CX
-------------------------------------
CLCMRC Museum Benefactor #38
Past: VP International Affiliates, Museum Board Director, President / Director Pittsburgh Region

67_Eldo

Thanks, Mike!

I finally dug into the headlight wiring-harness specifics today. I had to pull the headlights to gain access to the bolts that fasten the bumper-jack hooks to the car so I figured I'd start the headlight (re)wiring process too.

The first pic attached is of the complete harness spread across the front of the car. There's a channel in front of the air-conditioning condenser where the existing wiring runs. I figure I'll use that for the new stuff as well, leaving the old wiring in place.

If I install the loom the way that I think the sellers intended, it would fit without modification. You'll have to squeeze the new passenger-side headlight sockets underneath the a/c plumbing and past the battery, but it can be done. However, as you can see in the second attached pic, that leaves the relays out in the open, directly exposed to the elements that will come rushing through the grille. If I was to mount the relays out here, I'd make another little box in front of the radiator to house them.

[The black metal thing to the left of the relays is the original bumper-jack hook I removed to copy so I could make one for the driver's side. The new hook was fabricated from a 3/8" metal plate. Those hooks are surprisingly painful to remove and replace!

Back to electronics!]

Since I'm trying to keep all my "modern" electrical-system modifications located in the space behind the battery, the existing headlight loom isn't long enough. The last attached pic shows (generally) where I want to put the headlight relays, which is out of harm's way behind the battery.

Therefore to put all the headlight pieces exactly where I want them, I'll have to extend every tendril of the original harness by at least six inches. I didn't complete the job today because I want to buy more new connectors and make it tidy. I'd also tape off, but not cut off, the old headlight connectors.

The answer you'll choose, then, boils down to how paranoid are you about electrical wiring. I am paranoid enough to think that a constant through-the-grille blast of the elements directed at those relays will cause those relays to age relatively quickly. How quickly is "relatively"? One year? Five years? I don't know. But since I want them to last forever, I'm going to tuck them away behind the battery and not worry about it.

Sorry it took so long to provide an answer!

Good luck!