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POLICE ORDINANCE SAN DIEGO

Started by 76 cadillac bob, January 20, 2018, 12:16:07 PM

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76 cadillac bob

I belong to Great Autos of Yesteryear as well as CLC. We have been showing in Hillcrest for the past 6-8 months with no hassle, a fun crowd, good turnout and very positive responses. The San Diego Police have informed us that once we are in the venue ( blocked off street) we cannot ingress or egress) our car keys must be confiscated by the event coordinator and we are held hostage until the hours of operation are over (1-4) sometimes people have to leave early. IF someone wants to leave early we have to shut the show down for the day....There is concern over pedestrian vs auto encounters....now the police want an officer present during the show. Has anyone ever heard of this before anywhere. We usually get between 20-30 cars no more than that and it is not like we race through the area, I for one would not want to hit a pedestrian, they might damage my car!!
Does anyone know of an ordinance regarding this in San Diego City or County? and has a precident been set somewhere?  Many questions to be answered. Our show is today (20th)  it may be very enlightening. Please if you respond please do so in a way I can cut and paste the response to the appropriate members of the Great Autos Club.
Regards
Bob Landre (cadillac Bob)

wearymicrobe

Since I live in SD I am not entirely surprised that you are seeing this. I have some more modern exotics and they did a the same thing at a local show we host. They also checked the gas gauges at one of the import shows lately to make sure everybody has less then a 1/4 of a tank before being able to show. This was for fully trailered in cars for the show and street cars.

They are a little out of control around here. They have also been busting up a lot of the local import car meets pretty aggressively even with no misbehavior and permission from the owner of the locations.

Mind you if you have seem some of the absolute carnage that has been happening up north in LA and orange county at some shows you would understand that they want to nip things in the bud here.

Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621

Quote from: wearymicrobe on January 20, 2018, 03:08:01 PM
They also checked the gas gauges at one of the import shows lately to make sure everybody has less then a 1/4 of a tank before being able to show. This was for fully trailered in cars for the show and street cars.

Are you saying no car is allowed to participate in the show if it has more than 1/4th of a tank of fuel or just cars that have been trailered to the show?
A Cadillac Motorcar is a Possession for which there is no Acceptable Substitute

e.mason

In all my years of being in the classic car hobby, and attending numerous shows as both an exhibitor and spectator.  I have never once heard of one time that the local police got involved with their own rules.
Eric Mason

nysdarkblue

George, I must have missed something in Bob's story, but what does pensions have to do with the police at a car show? Are you saying they are off duty working the gig for extra money? And if so, so what. I believe the subject matter is them being there at all and giving the show restrictions.
Bill Estes
1990 Cadillac Brougham
2008 Cadillac DTS
2015 SRX

The Tassie Devil(le)

The way I see it, the fact that a Police Officer is required to be in attendance means that an employed Police Officer, with the availability of Transport is required to maintain Law and Order, and this representation is paid for by the City.

It doesn't mean that it is a Security Guard, as in a "retired" Police Officer, but in most cases, Security Guards could be employed by the Organising Committee, as in what is done at CLC National Events.

As for the level of fuel in the tanks, it could be that they don't want people being able to drive very far, if the vehicle is stolen, especially if people leave the keys in their cars, but having to pass the keys in is a bit over the top.

One thing I have found at public car shows is that it is unfair for vehicles to depart the "show field" before the advertised closing time as the paying public aren't getting their moneys' worth.

I do know from experience that if trophies are awarded on the day, if they are given out well before the advertised end of the event, 90% of the vehicles leave as soon as the presentations are over.   No good staying if one doesn't win a prize.

Being a Police officer for 32 1/3 years, every Public Event, gets a mention at Read-out, and each event is treated on its' merits as to what coverage it receives.   Car events usually get a mention with regards to Traffic Police attention.

BUT, the biggest problem with any Public Event is INSURANCE.   The Insurance industry is making too many demands, trying to limit their payout, whilst increasing their financial receipts.

Bruce. >:D
'72 Eldorado Convertible (LHD)
'70 Ranchero Squire (RHD)
'74 Chris Craft Gull Wing (SH)
'02 VX Series II Holden Commodore SS Sedan
(Past President Modified Chapter)

Past Cars of significance - to me
1935 Ford 3 Window Coupe
1936 Ford 5 Window Coupe
1937 Chevrolet Sports Coupe
1955 Chevrolet Convertible
1959 Ford Fairlane Ranch Wagon
1960 Cadillac CDV
1972 Cadillac Eldorado Coupe

David Greenburg

Like all California municipalities, the San Diego municipal code should be available (and searchable) on line.  American Legal Publishing is the source for many of them.  Or you can probably access it from the city website.  And let’s leave the trashing of civil servants for other websites.
David Greenburg
'60 Eldorado Seville
'61 Fleetwood Sixty Special

"Cadillac Kid" Greg Surfas 15364

By now the car show event is over, but since allowing an event to block a city street is allowing bending the law regarding street usage, the jurisdiction having authority (San Diego Police) can require anything they think is necessary to maintain public safety.  I lived on Dove street in Hillcrest for a few years and it IS a quiet neighborhood.
Regarding the police presence, I was quite surprise when I moved to San Antonio in 1994.  There were uniformed police at every event, and at many tourist locations.   They are typically off duty PD paid by the event or locale, and in all the years I have been here there has never been any interference by the PD nor anyone causing problems.  In this day and age it is something that must be acce[pted as necessary for public safety.
Greg Surfas
Cadillac Kid-Greg Surfas
Director Modified Chapter CLC
CLC #15364
66 Coupe deVille (now gone to the UK)
72 Eldo Cpe  (now cruising the sands in Quatar)
73 Coupe deVille
75 Coupe deElegance
76 Coupe deVille
79 Coupe de ville with "Paris" (pick up) option and 472 motor
514 inch motor now in '73-

savemy67

Hello Bob,

Many municipalities have a process for events that involve public spaces.  I do not know what the process is in San Diego, or even if there is one.  As David suggested, becoming familiar with the San Diego municipal code (and your San Diego municipal officials), should allow your group to conduct events without running afoul of the San Diego municipal code.

I respectfully disagree with Greg, as many municipalities allow groups to block access to streets for block parties, rallies, parades, etc. via permit.  So no bending of the law occurs.

Hopefully, your group can determine what is OK in San Diego, and determine whether or not some of the apparently more draconian aspects of San Diego's finest are legitimate.  Good luck.

Respectfully submitted,
Christopher Winter
Christopher Winter
1967 Sedan DeVille hardtop

D.Smith

Simple solution.   Move the event off the Public street.     

Because you are on a public street they can require a Police Officer for security.     As for the 1/4 tank of gas it has nothing to do with car theft.   It has to do with fire.   They don't want a car fire to burn out of control long enough to set the streetside buildings, ie: businesses on fire.   

If you insist on having this event on a public street, contact the local store owners and see how much extra revenue the attendees are bring to them during the event.   Some places get extra customers from events, mostly restaurants.   Some suffer as their regular customers don't want parking hassles.   

But if you can convince enough business owners that your event brings in extra business to them, get the store owners to pay for the off-duty Police Officer to be there.

As for the gasoline rule..  another concern: all it takes is for one old car to have a leaky gas tank causing a spill and the local Fire Dept and Hazmat teams will go nuts.    They'd prefer a 1/4 tank of gas to spill than 20 to 27 gallons running down the storm drains.   

Car shows and cruise night on public streets open up a whole slew of scenarios that can cause the local authorities to have concern over safety or litigation.


TJ Hopland

Being on the public street is what I was thinking the 'problem' is.  I would imagine its completely up to the locals if they allow special use permits and what sort special conditions they wish to apply.   

I can see how the size of show in question could be tricky.   Its big enough that there are not likely to many independently owned and operated businesses that would be off hours at ideal show times that would have space for both the show cars and spectators.   Once you get to the space needed its likely going to me more of a corporate thing which could be harder to deal with than the city.

Any sort of fairgrounds in the area?   How about a 'farmers market'?  I have been places that seem to regularly have other stuff going on in the space since the market only operates mornings a couple days a week.   Ask club members if they are members of other clubs that may have space.   Maybe there is a steam threshers old engine group that has their own grounds in the area and a deal could be worked out?  They would already know what it takes cost and paperwork wise to do an event.     
StPaul/Mpls, MN USA

73 Eldo convert w/FiTech EFI
80 Eldo Diesel
90 CDV
And other assorted stuff I keep buying for some reason

76 cadillac bob

Great information all. some really good brainstorming and information some of it bizarre. Our show is so benign...we are a bunch of old farts....but have fun. Very low key lots of familys with kids and older people show up. I will gather your comments less names and share with my club division president as they are very valid.
Our show was a huge success, no police presence nothing more rowdy than a couple of homeless that were mumbling profanities under their breath, which is who the police should be going after.
We are keeping a low profile for now we love you folks
Bob

35-709

#12
Our once a month Monday night cruise-in is held in the large parking lot of the local T/A truck stop.  Other places to look at would be a Wal-Mart, K-mart, large shopping mall parking lot, etc., maybe even a restaurant with a parking lot large enough for your usual turnout plus their regular customers.  Many merchants like this sort of thing, old cars attract people and that brings them business --- especially if you hold your event at a time when the business would otherwise be slow.

We used to hold the cruise-in at a local Chick-Fil-A but it became so popular with car owners and customers that we overwhelmed their parking area and they reluctantly told us we would have to move.       
1935 Cadillac Sedan resto-mod "Big Red"
1973 Cadillac Caribou - Sold - but still in the family
1950 Jaguar Mark V Saloon resto-mod - Sold
1942 Cadillac 6269 - Sold
1968 Pontiac Bonneville Convertible - Sold
1950 Packard 2dr. Club Sedan
1935 Glenn Pray - Auburn Boattail Speedster, Gen. 2