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anti freeze flush/thermostat

Started by Cape Cod Fleetwood, February 17, 2018, 02:13:10 AM

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Mike Josephic CLC #3877

Hi Laurie:

Yes, keep the heater fully on and the AC on "ice".

That kind of Prestone is the so-called "universal coolant"
and is gold colored (usually).  It works just fine and lasts
longer than the old "green" stuff.   Those colorants are
just dyes, they do nothing but help identify the brand you
use.

You need nothing else despite what the manual says.  That
will do the trick.  A 50/50 mix with water will give you protection
to -20 degrees.  Tap water is fine, no need for distilled.

I think you're ready to go but if you have any more questions
just ask!

Good luck on your surgery this week.

Mike
1955 Cadillac Eldorado
1973 Cadillac Eldorado
1995 Cadillac Seville
2004 Escalade
1997 GMC Suburban 4X4, 454 engine, 3/4 ton
custom built by Santa Fe in Evansville, IN
2011 Buick Lucerne CX
-------------------------------------
CLCMRC Museum Benefactor #38
Past: VP International Affiliates, Museum Board Director, President / Director Pittsburgh Region

Maynard Krebs

#21
I have long held the belief that a 50/50 mix is "overkill"... unless it regularly goes below -20F where the car is.   I say that a one-third anti-freeze and two-thirds water is plenty sufficient.   Since a 50/50 mix is good to -34F, and plain water is only good to +32F, that's a 66-degree 'swing'.   While the freezing point vs. the percentage of anti-freeze is not perfectly 'linear' (and does favor the car owner a bit), a 33/67 percent mix should adequately cover down to -12F.   Is my math correct here?   

I'm old enough to remember when the anti-freeze makers place a chart on their containers.. and included temp. coverage BELOW 50% anti-freeze concentrations.   Later, they figured that such was bad for the anti-freeze business, and only printed a diagonal half of the chart, for concentrations of 50% and higher!   LOL

TJ Hopland

Overkill just cost wise?  Or is there some other downside to 50/50? 

I recently had to replace a frost plug heater and noticed the instructions said warranty was void if anything other than a 50/50 mix was used.   That seemed like an odd thing to mention for a heater, why would it care?
StPaul/Mpls, MN USA

73 Eldo convert w/FiTech EFI
80 Eldo Diesel
90 CDV
And other assorted stuff I keep buying for some reason

35-709

I always use a 50/50 mix even here in Florida.  The anti-freeze serves not only as freeze protection, it also serves as a water pump lubricant, corrosion inhibitor, AND it raises the boiling point of the coolant, which might sometimes be a good thing in the Florida summer heat.  Why dilute it further than 50/50 reducing your lubricating ability, lowering your boiling point, and further diluting the corrosion inhibitors?   A 50/50 mix is pretty much the standard no matter where you are.
1935 Cadillac Sedan resto-mod "Big Red"
1973 Cadillac Caribou - Sold - but still in the family
1950 Jaguar Mark V Saloon resto-mod - Sold
1942 Cadillac 6269 - Sold
1968 Pontiac Bonneville Convertible - Sold
1950 Packard 2dr. Club Sedan
1935 Glenn Pray - Auburn Boattail Speedster, Gen. 2

Mike Josephic CLC #3877

Quote from: 35-709 on February 19, 2018, 02:02:06 PM
I always use a 50/50 mix even here in Florida.  The anti-freeze serves not only as freeze protection, it also serves as a water pump lubricant, corrosion inhibitor, AND it raises the boiling point of the coolant, which might sometimes be a good thing in the Florida summer heat.  Why dilute it further than 50/50 reducing your lubricating ability, lowering your boiling point, and further diluting the corrosion inhibitors?   A 50/50 mix is pretty much the standard no matter where you are.

You're RIGHT.

Mike
1955 Cadillac Eldorado
1973 Cadillac Eldorado
1995 Cadillac Seville
2004 Escalade
1997 GMC Suburban 4X4, 454 engine, 3/4 ton
custom built by Santa Fe in Evansville, IN
2011 Buick Lucerne CX
-------------------------------------
CLCMRC Museum Benefactor #38
Past: VP International Affiliates, Museum Board Director, President / Director Pittsburgh Region

Chuck Swanson

Quote from: Cape Cod Fleetwood on February 18, 2018, 03:00:52 AM
Hey guys, thanks for all the follow ups.
As for not removing the block plugs, just a "pucker factor" thing. The risk/reward just not great enough.
The car has been driving, quite a bit, before I got it. And judging by the new hoses and bright green anti freeze, this is again probably a waste of time and money.. but I have no mntx records for the car and need a place to start.


I have not done on my Caddy engines, however, have done many times on others.  Here's where I would use a wire wheel around the brass plug to get super clean.  With a good wrench they come right out easily...a big ass good wrench :)  Chuck
CLC Lifetime
AACA Lifetime
Like 65-66 Club: www.facebook.com/6566Cadillac
66 DeVille Convertible-CLC Sr Wreath, (AACA 1st Jr 2021, Senior 2022, 1st GN 2022 Sr GN 2023), Audrain Concours '22 3rd in Class.
66 Sedan DeVille hdtp
66 Calais pillar sedan
66 Series 75 9-pass limo
65 Eldorado (vert w/bucket seats)
65 Fleetwood
07 DTS w/ Performance pkg.
67 Chevy II Nova (AACA Sr GN 2018)
69 Dodge Coronet R/T

Cape Cod Fleetwood

Quote from: Mike Josephic  CLC #3877 on February 19, 2018, 12:28:28 PM
Hi Laurie:

Yes, keep the heater fully on and the AC on "ice".

That kind of Prestone is the so-called "universal coolant"
and is gold colored (usually).  It works just fine and lasts
longer than the old "green" stuff.   Those colorants are
just dyes, they do nothing but help identify the brand you
use.

You need nothing else despite what the manual says.  That
will do the trick.  A 50/50 mix with water will give you protection
to -20 degrees.  Tap water is fine, no need for distilled.

I think you're ready to go but if you have any more questions
just ask!

Good luck on your surgery this week.

Mike

Thank you Mike, God bless!
\m/
Laurie!
There are 2 kinds of cars in the world, Cadillac and everything else....

The Present -1970 Fleetwood Brougham

The Past -
1996 Deville Concours
1987 Sedan De Ville "Commonwealth Edition"
1981 Coupe De Ville (8-6-4)
1976 Sedan De Ville
1975 Sedan De Ville

The Daily Driver and work slave -
2008 GMC Acadia SLT *options/all

Cape Cod Fleetwood

Quote from: Chuck Swanson on February 19, 2018, 08:05:58 PM
I have not done on my Caddy engines, however, have done many times on others.  Here's where I would use a wire wheel around the brass plug to get super clean.  With a good wrench they come right out easily...a big ass good wrench :)  Chuck

Another reason for me to avoid this Chuck, I have a small ass.  :P

\m/

Laurie!
There are 2 kinds of cars in the world, Cadillac and everything else....

The Present -1970 Fleetwood Brougham

The Past -
1996 Deville Concours
1987 Sedan De Ville "Commonwealth Edition"
1981 Coupe De Ville (8-6-4)
1976 Sedan De Ville
1975 Sedan De Ville

The Daily Driver and work slave -
2008 GMC Acadia SLT *options/all

raugusti

Has anyone tried one of those vacuum system testers/ fillers?
https://www.amazon.com/XtremepowerUS-Cooling-System-Vacuum-Refill/dp/B00LBM12YO/ref=sr_1_6?s=automotive&ie=UTF8&qid=1519334045&sr=1-6&keywords=vacuum+radiator+refill+kit

I have several cars including my two cads that need the flush and fill treatment and these seem like they'd make the last part of the job easier.

Scott
Scott Augustine
Colorado, USA
'58 Series 62 Conv.
'58 Eldorado Seville

TJ Hopland

Interesting,  I knew the dealers have had tools like that for several years now.   I never thought to look for low cost aftermarket stuff.   As long as you got a stock car that has the cap on the radiator and that is the high point of the system I don't think its really needed.   Starting in the 90's they really seemed to get away from that design and there are some cars that are incredibly difficult or maybe impossible to bleed without a tool like that. 

One question would be do you (anyone considering this) already own a vacuum pump?   If you do then this looks like a very reasonably priced package assuming it actually fits the cars you want to use it on.   If you also had to buy a vacuum pump which even used or 'import' can be $100 that drives the cost up.   I wonder if this a place where you could get away with one of the air powered vacuum pumps?   AC work they are no good since you want to vac down and hold it there for an extended period but here I would think a few minutes maybe would do it?

For those that have never seen such a thing the dealer ones have the specific fitting that fits the coolant filler on the car.   This one looks to have a sort of universal expansion bushing which hopefully fits.   You then hook up a vacuum pump and let it draw all the air out of the system.   I didn't look for the manual but presumably there is then valving involved where you disconnect the vacuum source and then open the valve to that clear hose which is in your fresh coolant bottle that is currently under ambient atmospheric pressure.   Coolant under positive pressure + cooling system at negative pressure = coolant should get 'pushed' into every nook and cranny of the cooling system.    You would want to make sure the pickup tube is at the bottom of your container and doesn't run low enough to suck any air.   
StPaul/Mpls, MN USA

73 Eldo convert w/FiTech EFI
80 Eldo Diesel
90 CDV
And other assorted stuff I keep buying for some reason

TJ Hopland

This is another option I have seen that I think could work well on older cars.   Its basically a big funnel with elbows and such to attach to the filler.  The sort of unique feature is its got a plug on a stick.   The idea is you connect this and fill the system, actually overfill so there is some in the funnel too.   You start it and let it warm up and it can burp air out through the coolant in the funnel without making a mess like it does with just the cap off.   When its happy you then install the plug to keep what is in the funnel from draining out when you disconnect.     They seem to cost about $40 and are available pretty much everywhere.  I have never seen one in stock at a parts store but I bet they can order them since they all seem to carry Lisle tools.

http://www.lislecorp.com/divisions/products/?product=777

 
StPaul/Mpls, MN USA

73 Eldo convert w/FiTech EFI
80 Eldo Diesel
90 CDV
And other assorted stuff I keep buying for some reason

TJ Hopland

On the vacuum systems has anyone found one with a manual or a good enough photo showing the vacuum connection?  Seems to be a conspiracy not to clearly show it.   I clicked on dozens of different sites 'click to enlarge' only to see a smaller photo than the original.   I'm assuming it would be a standard refrigerant threaded fitting?   I'm just thinking if it was me I would want to pick up a hose to go with it so you didn't have to risk getting coolant into your refrigerant servicing lines especially if you had a 3 line manifold set that shares the vac and charge line.

I did see several options that even down to the packaging layout look like the one in the original amazon link.  That was the least expensive,  some are pushing $200.   That expanding bushing thing seems to be a common design.  The other design looks like a cone sort of thing.   Only one I have ever seen up close was at a VW dealer and it was just a direct fitting that replaced the cap and came on its own cart that contained the pump and a big container of official coolant.   I'm sure that rig cost $1000's. 

I'm really interested in this concept,  hopefully someone has used one or will get one soon and let us know how it works.   
StPaul/Mpls, MN USA

73 Eldo convert w/FiTech EFI
80 Eldo Diesel
90 CDV
And other assorted stuff I keep buying for some reason

TJ Hopland

Another interesting idea worthy of some research is they apparently make combo kits that can do the pressure test and then do this vacuum purge/refill deal.    Last summer I bought a pressure test kit and its been really handy for finding leaks.   You can put the system under pressure even with no coolant if you want and listen for leaks or just see how long it will hold.

This stuff seems to be a real pain to search, they all seem to call them something slightly different and they don't fit an exact category in the automotive specialty sellers catalogs.

I should be out removing snow before the next wave hits but its way more fun to window shop tools.  Can we still call it window shopping?    There must be a modern term for doing that online? 
StPaul/Mpls, MN USA

73 Eldo convert w/FiTech EFI
80 Eldo Diesel
90 CDV
And other assorted stuff I keep buying for some reason

Cape Cod Fleetwood

Yeah I'm gonna stick with the 1970 shop manual for radiator flushing. Don't want to surprise that 48 year old system. Good things don't usually happen with surprises. JMHO.

Took a good look at the hoses today, all are new except the core hose, and its pretty mottled looking. I'll change that.

\m/
Laurie
There are 2 kinds of cars in the world, Cadillac and everything else....

The Present -1970 Fleetwood Brougham

The Past -
1996 Deville Concours
1987 Sedan De Ville "Commonwealth Edition"
1981 Coupe De Ville (8-6-4)
1976 Sedan De Ville
1975 Sedan De Ville

The Daily Driver and work slave -
2008 GMC Acadia SLT *options/all

TJ Hopland

Make sure you are checking the short piece of hose between the head and water control valve.   It seems many people miss that one for one reason or another.   Even on the Eldo where there is room between the back of the engine its not the easiest thing to access.   The 77+ RWD's are the worst. 
StPaul/Mpls, MN USA

73 Eldo convert w/FiTech EFI
80 Eldo Diesel
90 CDV
And other assorted stuff I keep buying for some reason

Cape Cod Fleetwood

And this evolution is officially bagged, I'll work with the mech at the body shop for this. Worked on the car today and noticed one of the bolts that holds the therm on is tight to the air compressor, I don't have the proper socket set up to get at it. More details on my post on the restoration thread they set up for me. Good idea to change that little hose too TJ, that's 2 hoses I found with the old style twisty clamp thingies on them, they're being replaced. That I can do.

\m/
Laurie!
There are 2 kinds of cars in the world, Cadillac and everything else....

The Present -1970 Fleetwood Brougham

The Past -
1996 Deville Concours
1987 Sedan De Ville "Commonwealth Edition"
1981 Coupe De Ville (8-6-4)
1976 Sedan De Ville
1975 Sedan De Ville

The Daily Driver and work slave -
2008 GMC Acadia SLT *options/all

Cape Cod Fleetwood

It took 6 (six) flushes to clean out the cooling system. This poor car. All the crud is out, used the bottom hose to drain since there's no petcock. Keeping it empty, replacing some hoses today. Including the ones in the resevoir which were nearly disintegrated. Might have been the DEAD MOUSE I found in there? Eewww... Its been bleached, now its in my sink soaking, so much crud on the bottom. I'll fill it back up with water when I'm done. Hyannis can change the therm and add the coolant when its there.

Filled up the master cylinder with fluid, no brakes going forward pumping of course, at least the EB works. Backing up pumping the brakes, got my brakes back, light went out. Chances of me driving this car are somewhere between 0 and -2%. I'll let the Gods at HVA find out what part failed and fix it properly first.

\m/
Laurie!

There are 2 kinds of cars in the world, Cadillac and everything else....

The Present -1970 Fleetwood Brougham

The Past -
1996 Deville Concours
1987 Sedan De Ville "Commonwealth Edition"
1981 Coupe De Ville (8-6-4)
1976 Sedan De Ville
1975 Sedan De Ville

The Daily Driver and work slave -
2008 GMC Acadia SLT *options/all

TJ Hopland

Cadillac seemed to use different proportioning valves than other makes.  Under light braking they seem to put most of the 'power' to the rear.  When manually bleeding you need to tell the pedal pusher to push hard or you don't get any action to the front.   I could see that if the rears were way out of whack it would take even more pressure to get something out of the front.  I would imagine that its the resistance in the rear that makes the valve operate especially under lighter braking.  If you hit em fast and hard it does seem to do a good job of getting most of the power in the front.   
StPaul/Mpls, MN USA

73 Eldo convert w/FiTech EFI
80 Eldo Diesel
90 CDV
And other assorted stuff I keep buying for some reason