Author Topic: Dual circuit master cylinder conversion kits for 1937-1949  (Read 2642 times)

Dual circuit master cylinder conversion kits for 1937-1949
« on: January 09, 2015, 04:46:12 PM »
I have conversion kits that will allow a modern, dual circuit master cylinder to be mounted to the frame of a 1937-1949 Cadillac for improved safety.  Ask someone who has had a total brake failure in an old car just how frightening it is.  These kits work like a charm with the stock drum brakes and use the stock pedal mechanism.  No holes have to be drilled in the car!


I sell the mounting hardware and related items for $175, including domestic shipping.  You buy the modern master (about $135) from a parts store like Summit Racing.


I am not an auto business, just a hobbyist like the rest of us.  But I when I designed this kit for my 49, I had a number of them manufactured for me to bring the unit cost down (as you know, making one of anything is expensive).


Email me at agardner@gardnergroff.com for more information.
Art Gardner


1955 S60 Fleetwood sedan

Offline Stinson

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Re: Dual circuit master cylinder conversion kits for 1937-1949
« Reply #1 on: January 09, 2015, 10:27:54 PM »
Hello Art, are you certain this could be used on a '37 Cadillac Series 75 (V8) or 85 (V12)?
Thank you, I'm interested.
Ty Stinson
Ty Stinson
'37 Cad 8519 Touring Sedan V12
CLC22330

Offline Rich Iannelli

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Re: Dual circuit master cylinder conversion kits for 1937-1949
« Reply #2 on: January 10, 2015, 01:20:12 AM »
Hello Art,
I also have a 1937 and was wondering if I could add a power booster to the mounting plate?

Thanks,
Rich Iannelli
Aim at nothing and you will hit nothing

Re: Dual circuit master cylinder conversion kits for 1937-1949
« Reply #3 on: January 12, 2015, 01:50:40 PM »
I don't think you could use my kit to add a power booster.  My kit works to mount a modern, unboosted master in place of the original master.  Attached is a picture of the type of original master that my kit allows you to replace with a modern master.  The second photo shows the modern dual master mounted to my special bracket.
Art Gardner


1955 S60 Fleetwood sedan

Re: Dual circuit master cylinder conversion kits for 1937-1949
« Reply #4 on: January 12, 2015, 01:55:00 PM »
Ty,


I am not certain about the Series 75 cars nor the V-12 cars from the late 30's.  My recollection is that some of the larger Cadillacs from that era had a different frame configuration.  On the regular 37-49 Cadillacs, I believe  that the master cylinder is held to the frame with two large bolts that extend laterally through decending legs (see the photo below of what I think such looks like).  My recollection is that on the V-12 and V-16 chassis, the master is end mounted, not bottom mounted, and has a triangular mounting flange.  For those applications, my kit of of no use.


Art
Art Gardner


1955 S60 Fleetwood sedan

Offline Stinson

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Re: Dual circuit master cylinder conversion kits for 1937-1949
« Reply #5 on: January 12, 2015, 03:03:15 PM »
Hello Art, it appears that you are correct. My unit has the triangular flange. Rats!
Ty Stinson
Ty Stinson
'37 Cad 8519 Touring Sedan V12
CLC22330

Offline Steve Passmore

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  • Name: Steve Passmore
Re: Dual circuit master cylinder conversion kits for 1937-1949
« Reply #6 on: January 12, 2015, 03:11:05 PM »
Its not just on the big series Art, my 1937 and 1938 60 series both have the triangular flange. The first year I have seen the two bolt arrangement is on my 41 meaning your kits will not fit these earlier years.
Steve

Re: Dual circuit master cylinder conversion kits for 1937-1949
« Reply #7 on: January 12, 2015, 03:24:40 PM »
I am rather sure that there are some 37-40 Cadillacs that have the two-bolt mounting.  I have sold some of these kits to folks who have actually installed them on 37, 38, 39, 40 cars.  I am guessing that it is the Series 61, 62, etc. cars.  I knew it wouldn't fit the larger chassis of that era.  I know it fits a 41 60S chassis -- I have sold several to those folks, including one to Paul Phillips right here in Georgia (and I have seen it actually installed on his 41 60S).

Bottom line is that if you have the triangular end mount, my kit won't help.  If you have the two legs secured by lateral bolts, my kit should do the trick.
Art Gardner


1955 S60 Fleetwood sedan

Re: Dual circuit master cylinder conversion kits for 1937-1949
« Reply #8 on: January 12, 2015, 03:27:52 PM »
Someone could easily design an adapter for the triangular end mount to work with this modern master cylinder.  It would be a much simpler design effort than what I faced with bottom mount.  Here is the skinny on what I think is the best master cylinder to use.

In the past I have used a Wilwood 260-7563 master cylinder kit which comes pre-configured for use with 4 wheel drum brakes.  Here is a link to the spec sheet for that master... http://wilwood.com/PDF/DataSheets/ds439.pdf  The Wilwood master is pre-configured for drum brakes (but can be re-set to disk/drum brakes easily) and I have found it to work very well. Personally, I would stick with the drum brakes (I didn't like the disc brakes that I installed on a 49 fastback several years ago).  For me, it was a waste of money and I eventually put the drum brakes back on the car.  My kit is designed to allow you to mount the dual circuit master without drilling any holes in the car or welding anything to the car.  It is completely reversible (if a subsequent owner doesn't want it on the car, things can be simply unbolted and leave no trace of my system).
 
 
Summit Racing sells the master cylinder for about $135.  Here is a link to that site... http://www.summitracing.com/parts/WIL-260-7563/
Art Gardner


1955 S60 Fleetwood sedan

Offline Steve Passmore

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  • Name: Steve Passmore
Re: Dual circuit master cylinder conversion kits for 1937-1949
« Reply #9 on: January 12, 2015, 03:52:50 PM »
I am rather sure that there are some 37-40 Cadillacs that have the two-bolt mounting.  I have sold some of these kits to folks who have actually installed them on 37, 38, 39, 40 cars.  I am guessing that it is the Series 61, 62, etc. cars.


Mmm, interesting. We need someone to confirm that who has fitted it to a 37 or 38 car as there are no 61 0r 62 series cars for those years and my manual for both years shows only the flange type fitting for all series.    On my 39 however it does have a two bolt fixing.
Steve

Offline Dan LeBlanc

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Re: Dual circuit master cylinder conversion kits for 1937-1949
« Reply #10 on: January 12, 2015, 04:14:25 PM »
It would be nice to do something like this on the '53.
Dan LeBlanc - CLC # 27657
1970 DeVille Convertible
1977 Continental Town Car

Offline curly

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  • Name: T Lewis
Re: Dual circuit master cylinder conversion kits for 1937-1949
« Reply #11 on: January 12, 2015, 06:43:39 PM »
Art, will this work on a 1950 s62?

T Lewis

Re: Dual circuit master cylinder conversion kits for 1937-1949
« Reply #12 on: January 13, 2015, 01:32:41 PM »
It doesn't fit the 50-53.  I once modified one of my brackets to fit on a 50 sedan I owned (best Cadillac I have ever had).  But it took a lot of engineering work and I didn't make copies of the design.  Sorry.  Here is a picture of that installation.
Art Gardner


1955 S60 Fleetwood sedan

Re: Dual circuit master cylinder conversion kits for 1937-1949
« Reply #13 on: January 13, 2015, 01:34:04 PM »
Here is another picture of the 50 installation.
Art Gardner


1955 S60 Fleetwood sedan

Re: Dual circuit master cylinder conversion kits for 1937-1949
« Reply #14 on: January 13, 2015, 01:37:51 PM »
Steve,


As for fitting the 37 and 38 cars, I sold some to owners of those years and the feedback I got back was that they fit.  But maybe I am mistaken or they were or both.  I have much more confidence in the application to 39 and up regular chassis cars...
Art Gardner


1955 S60 Fleetwood sedan

Re: Dual circuit master cylinder conversion kits for 1937-1949
« Reply #15 on: January 13, 2015, 01:46:33 PM »
A comment about plumbing.  The cars come with a main front-to-rear line that connects to the original big fitting on the front of the original master.  There is also a front line extending from that fitting and feeding the front brakes.  Finally, there is an hydraulically operated brake light switch that screws into that original fitting also. 

In my kit, I provide a special 3-way brass fitting that connects the front line to a short bit of line that you provide and then connect to the master.  The special 3-way fitting has a pipe thread in one of the outlets to accept the 1/8 NPT threads of the brake light switch.  I also provide a stubby 90-degree elbow that you connect to the end of the existing main front-to-rear line and then and a short length of new line bent into a U to couple the main front-to-rear line to the master.  See the photos I have uploaded.
Art Gardner


1955 S60 Fleetwood sedan

Re: Dual circuit master cylinder conversion kits for 1937-1949
« Reply #16 on: January 13, 2015, 04:55:27 PM »
Steve and others,


Looking online this afternoon, I see folks selling two different versions of master cylinders for 37, 38 Cadillacs.  One is the two-bolt style and the other is the triangular end flange style, with the difference being the heavier chassis cars seeming to take the triangular flange style.

Also, looking back through my sales, I see that at one point I sold a kit to a guy with a 1940 LaSalle and he reported that he had to modify it to make it work on his LaSalle.  I have not had any reports of needed modifications for fitment on regular 39 or 40 Cadillacs chassis.

Bottom line is that pre-1940 is hit or miss for my kit, depending upon the application.

I will contact the folks who purchased my kit for a pre-war car and build a chart of what it fits and what it doesn't fit....
« Last Edit: January 15, 2015, 03:35:15 PM by Art Gardner CLC 23021 »
Art Gardner


1955 S60 Fleetwood sedan

Re: Dual circuit master cylinder conversion kits for 1937-1949
« Reply #17 on: January 16, 2015, 02:57:25 PM »
I have been selling these kits for $175, including domestic shipping.  I think I am going to raise the price by about $15, as I am getting ready to buy some additional hardware that I'll include in each kit, simplifying the installation even further for the installer.  The additional hardware inclusion will eliminate the need for the purchaser to look for adapters or short bits of brake line.   It will also make the finished installation even cleaner and simpler than before, using fewer parts overall (but at higher cost to me).


Easier all the way around...
Art Gardner


1955 S60 Fleetwood sedan

Offline Stinson

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Re: Dual circuit master cylinder conversion kits for 1937-1949
« Reply #18 on: January 16, 2015, 04:35:26 PM »
Hello Art,
Could you provide contact information for the three bolt type, if you still have it? Wish you were making them.
Ty Stinson
Ty Stinson
'37 Cad 8519 Touring Sedan V12
CLC22330

Re: Dual circuit master cylinder conversion kits for 1937-1949
« Reply #19 on: January 16, 2015, 04:41:14 PM »
I don't know of anyone making an adapter for a three-bolt flange master.  If someone will send me a ratty old master cylinder of this type, I'll design a mounting plate to make the modern master cylinder work.  The design work should be pretty easy.  The plates probably wouldn't be ready for a couple of months (I am pretty busy right now)...
Art Gardner


1955 S60 Fleetwood sedan