News:

Due to a technical issue, some recently uploaded pictures have been lost. We are investigating why this happened but the issue has been resolved so that future uploads should be safe.  You can also Modify your post (MORE...) and re-upload the pictures in your post.

Main Menu

old car show "format" has never changed!

Started by Maynard Krebs, August 22, 2016, 12:03:03 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Maynard Krebs

Has anyone else contemplated the fact that old car shows have become passé... because the 'format' has never changed?   This is one reason for the popularity of weeknight cruises, instead.

I'm an "early Boomer"; but I'm embarrassed that so many of my 'generation' think only OF THEIR generation.   This is demonstrated by the dreadful, same ol', same ol', 1960s "teeney-bopper" MUSAK being misused to endlessly inflict various sorts of pain upon a captive audience.

I'm sick of it.   Why can't an "old CAR show" just have cars, owners, fans, conversations and just the quiet breeze in the background?

Maybe what REAL old car fans need are "by-invitation-only" events... with NO musak.. and NO DOGS!!!   If anyone cannot or will not attend an old car show withOUT musak.. or Fido being with them, please stay home.

"Shows" have been dying for a while.   There are reasons.   It remains incumbent upon old car show organizers to really "think outside the box" on this issue.

I say that shows need to change... or they will die off.

BTW, when's the last time you saw a "Pre-WW2" car at a show, other than a Model A Ford?   It's becoming a relative rarity... and that really is too bad.

I realize that many cannot appreciate stuff made before they were born.   I'm a '47 model, myself; but I like Packards, Pierce-Arrows, and Auburns... especially the "twelves".   Only six marques made such.   Can you name all six makes?

jdemerson

I've attended three shows this year, with the last one being the Annual Stowe, Vermont show. So it's interesting to reflect on the points made in this post.

All these shows had at least a few pre-WWII cars. The Stowe Show always has a lot of them, and for example had a beautiful 1936 Auburn and a 1939 Senior Packard. It also had a very nice 1924(?) Oldsmobile and a 1938 Buick. There were more, and some even older like a brass-era Rolls Royce. It was rainy this year, but in a good year we have classic Cadillacs, Chrysler Imperials, Cords, and even a Duesenberg. Although I like the 50s and 60s cars, I especially enjoy the variety at Stowe and learning about cars of other eras.

I agree about the music, especially if it is loud enough to interfere with good old-fashioned conversation. I haven't seen dogs as an issue, and here in Vermont I think there might be resistance to prohibiting dogs in large outdoor spaces at shows. Of course dogs should be on a leash and under the owner's control.

What I enjoy most about shows is talking with people about their cars and their experiences in acquiring them and restoring or upgrading them. I love to answer questions about my car and I love to ask questions and learn about other cars no matter what the era. I find that young people of both genders enjoy that aspect of show attendance just as much as people my age and older. At Stowe a week ago, I met and visited quite a while with a couple of young men and a young woman (all likely in their early 20s) from New Hampshire. They have started a restoration business, and they showed a beautifully-restored 1956 Ford Country Sedan (wagon). They are very interesting and knowledgable people. I hope they succeed as we do need restoration shops with talented young people mastering the trade and continuing the hobby.

Over the years, Stowe has been quite traditional, but they have added classes for modified cars. I think this can appeal to younger people, and I'd suggest having a section of the show field for them that is separated from the original and authentically-restored cars. Next year my 1992 Miata will be eligible as an antique -- just think about the Hondas, Toyotas, and Mazdas older than that which young people enjoy owning and working on. The Vermont Auto Enthusiasts have long supported teenagers enrolled in training programs for auto repair, maintenance, and restoration. They award prizes to recognize the contributions and talents of young people interested in this area.

I think that those involved in planning and putting on shows would do well to ask young people what appeals most to  them. Better still, get them involved in the planning process. And get them involved in the judging, There is more to life than cell phones and YouTube... We can all speculate but we may not know what really appeals to others. One activity I enjoy most is taking others (including younger people) for a ride in my 1952.

Yes, I can name the "twelves". Can you names the "sixteens"?  [-:)

John Emerson
Middlebury, VT
1952 Cadillac 6219X
John Emerson
Middlebury, Vermont
CLC member #26790
1952 Series 6219X
http://bit.ly/21AGnvn

Scot Minesinger

I think car shows or the antique car hobby is on the wane, not because of the music or dogs at car shows, but rather:

1.  Cars are becoming less important to young people than they were to older generations.
2.  The hobby takes money, and in general the wealth of the average American is less than it was a generation ago.
3.  The hobby takes time, if I bring my car to a show, it is an all day affair in that it has to be cleaned, driven there and back plus being at the show - a 10am to 3pm show is 8 hours minimum.
4.  Because the hobby takes time and money, I find the majority of the people who bring cars do not have children, or their children have grown and left the house.  Accordingly the hobby doe not get passed to next generation.  I'm a minority in my club, probably one of five out of 180 who regularly bring cars to shows and have children at home.

Golf suffers as well due to the time and money requirement.

For the record, I do not mind music, I think it is done so that people will attend more so than to retard attendance.  Also, I'm a dog person and always glad when people do bring dogs, because I cannot bring mine (leather seats/dog hair). 

To get younger people back into the hobby, expose them to your classics, give them a ride.  Also, be nice to the new people who show up in that convertible that is so bad.  I see young people drive up in a new classic and have a bunch of unkind club members bad mouth it right to the owner.  They don't return and then sell the car.
Fairfax Station, VA  22039 (Washington DC Sub)
1970 Cadillac DeVille Convertible
1970 Cadillac Sedan DeVille
1970 four door Convertible w/Cadillac Warranty

76eldo

#3
My biggest gripe with local shows is the inclusion of the almost new and in some cases brand new cars.  I think a 25 year rule is good to keep from having to view a row of new Vettes, Camaros, Mustangs, and Challengers. 

I try to participate in the regional CLC chows and tours but have also come to the realization that car shows are just too long.  Some guys like to get there early to get a good spot, but you are basically trapped there until 3:00 or so if you want to wait around for the awards.

Loud DJ music is another annoyance when it is too loud.  I'm no old , I'm a rock guitarist so I know what too loud means and if you are at a car show and cannot hold a conversation because of the music it's too loud.

The drive to and from the show is usually more enjoyable than the show although it is nice to hang out with your friends on a pleasant Saturday or Sunday.

Macungie Pa is my favorite show. It's huge, hasn't changed in the 35 years I've been going there, and there is no judging.

Brian
Brian Rachlin
Huntingdon Valley, Pa
I prefer email's not PM's rachlin@comcast.net

1960 62 Series Conv with Factory Tri Power
1970 DeVille Conv
1970 Eldo
1970 Caribu (?) "The Cadmino"
1973 Eldorado Conv Pace Car
1976 Eldorado Conv
1980 Eldorado H & E Conv
1993 Allante with Hardtop (X2)
2008 DTS
2012 CTS Coupe
2017 XT
1956 Thunderbird
1966 Olds Toronado

Big Apple Caddy

Quote from: Scot Minesinger on August 22, 2016, 08:24:03 AM
I think car shows or the antique car hobby is on the wane, not because of the music or dogs at car shows, but rather:

1.  Cars are becoming less important to young people than they were to older generations.
I think some of the stats regard youth interest in cars is misleading and/or inaccurate.   I also think that the internet has changed the landscape of participation not just for car shows or the car hobby but many different clubs, and especially with younger people.  So much is available online that physically going to shows or club meetings is less necessarily to enjoy or participate in various hobbies.    Many types of clubs have experienced a downturn in membership and/or attendance because so many instead go online for "free" to seek information, share interests, socialize, etc.


Quote from: Scot Minesinger on August 22, 2016, 08:24:03 AM
2.  The hobby takes money, and in general the wealth of the average American is less than it was a generation ago.
I think in many ways people live higher lifestyles today.  Look at how much larger the average home has become, how many TVs it has,  etc. etc.  Too much is about keeping up with the neighbors, friends, and colleagues.

As far as income goes, the median household income in the United States in 1975 was $11,800 which in current dollars is almost $53K or about the same as it is today if not a little lower.

marty55cdv

  Well the format maybe hasn't changed, but here in Utah it seems to be going strong. There were a minimum of 9 shows this past Saturday and a few on Sunday .  The show I attended Saturday was a fundraiser for the local Shriners hospital.  There were at last count, 275 cars there including a 33 Packard Roadster a 33 and 38 Buick and my 41 60s  with lots of other pre WW2 cars although mostly hot-rodded .  There are two different gentlemen competing in the area here that do weekend shows and Cruise nights from April til Halloween.   As Scott said shows are time consuming, and I know I didn't start in the hobby or had any interest in it until 10 years ago, with young kids and their activities,  money and time are tight.  And in my opinion the waning interest of young people in the hobby is due to the fact that when the car makers noticed the interest and auction prices of Hemi Cudas  Shelby Mustangs and Camaros they started building new versions with all the latest features and usually with more horsepower,  the average person in his thirties can by a new Mustang for a lot less than restoring one. 
Marty Smith
  CLC #22760
41 60 Special http://bit.ly/1Wm0GvT
55 CDV http://bit.ly/1G933IY
56 Fleetwood
1958 Extended Deck http://bit.ly/1NPYhGC
1959 Fleetwood  http://bit.ly/1OFsrOE
1960 Series 62 Coupe
1960 Sedan DeVille  4 window Flattop
63 Fleetwood http://bit.ly/1iSz17J
1964 Eldorado http://bit.ly/1Wm17GA  (Living in California now)
1988 EBC http://bit.ly/1iSACKz

76eldo

There are more car shows, cruise nights, and car related functions than ever.  More TV shows about cars each season.

The only thing from my perspective is the inclusion of almost new cars in these shows makes me less likely to participate.

Brian
Brian Rachlin
Huntingdon Valley, Pa
I prefer email's not PM's rachlin@comcast.net

1960 62 Series Conv with Factory Tri Power
1970 DeVille Conv
1970 Eldo
1970 Caribu (?) "The Cadmino"
1973 Eldorado Conv Pace Car
1976 Eldorado Conv
1980 Eldorado H & E Conv
1993 Allante with Hardtop (X2)
2008 DTS
2012 CTS Coupe
2017 XT
1956 Thunderbird
1966 Olds Toronado

oldcarguy

Agree with Brian, if I want to see new cars, I'll go to the dealership! Speaking of cars shows, I was just on an annual reunion with my kids/grand kids at Nags Head, N. C. and driving there, just happened to stop in New Bern for brunch, guess what? Downtown was covered in cars, old cars at that! TWO  beautiful Caddies, Mr. Kantes in a '39 coupe and Mr. Martinaro [please forgive spelling] in an absolutley georgeous '42 4 dr convertible. I felt very lucky spending time with these gentlemen and talking Cadillacs.
There were Packards, REO's, Stutz, brass cars aplenty! A real unexpected treat, sorry I couldn't stay the day.
Don Ford
Don Ford

1941 SERIES 6219D
2017 XTS
Others:
1949 Mercury coupe
1964 Pontiac LeMans
1959 Chevy Impala

Dan LeBlanc

Gentlemen, I couldn't agree more.  If I wanted the Fleetwood to be parked in a sea of pus, I'd go park it down at a dealership.  I usually just walk past the new cars at a car show.  I think, so what, you're in debt for the next 72 months on your car, so you're coming to tell everyone you are just by showing up.
Dan LeBlanc
1977 Lincoln Continental Town Car

mistertudball

I just stopped in at a car show yesterday in the Eldo (gorgeous day) and the parking dude practically begged me to show my car ... but I didn't have the whole day to spend so I politely declined.  What was there was a very cool Falcon convertible, an unrestored Corvair van, nice but presumably ersatz Cobra, and the rest were new Corvettes or Challengers, etc.   And "Hello, Mary Lou" was blasting on the PA.  Sound familiar?
David Bartosic CLC19619

tturley

Are there any ideas as to how to make today's car shows more appealing? The obvious answer is to get more attractive cars but is there anything beyond that.
Member # 28929
1940 Lasalle model 5019
2011 Escalade platinum Edition
1995 Ford F-150
2015 Buick Enclave

Glen

Well the young auto enthusiast around here take their cars out to an abandoned air field and see how long they can drive their car sideways.  The rumor is they go through 3 or 4 sets of tires in an evening.   
Not my cup of tea. 
Glen Houlton CLC #727 
CLCMRC benefactor #104

D.Smith

I was just having a similar conversation with a DJ at a local cruise night.   I asked him why he doesn't play any newer classics from the 70s or 80s?  Or newer if a real popular song.      He said he wished he could, but the club that was paying him restricts the music played to be from the 50s and 60s ONLY.

Plus I agree that at many shows the music is WAY too loud.    It kills conversations. And talking about the cars is what it is all about.   Not sitting quietly and having your ears blasted.

Also like many people have said,  WAY too many brand new cars being let in.   And many aren't even special interest cars.   A newer Infinity coupe was let in at the last cruise.   Plus a newer Chevy Trailer Blazer.  Really?   

But is this killing the car show?  No.  It is just hurting it.   That and the latest trend of putting stupid big aftermarket rims on every classic.    Ugh.

RobW

yeah the 50's music is getting to be a bit much. I enjoyed it back in the 70's and 80's on the radio but now the radio stations don't even play it. today's "oldies are 70's and 80's music.
car shows are either too restrictive or too open. I agree with the new cars being out of place. but then you have shows that state "pre-72 only". when I questioned one such show because just about every 72 shares a body with a 71 they said no it includes 72. so I explained that "pre" excludes whatever follows. same with "pre-64 shows" and so on.
a friend is having a cruise night here next week. started out as anything welcome. as the days wind down it became American cars only. then only hot rods, muscle cars, and customs. so what do most younger guys have? imports! and this friend is always promoting involving kids to continue the hobby!
so what's the answer? if you say 25 years or older what about cars that share the same basic body for 8 years? do they all get in because the oldest is 25?
that same friend told me to bring my 73 coupe to the "pre-72" show because he knew the guy at the gate. I declined because my car is nice enough on it's own. it doesn't need to beg or sneak in anywhere. There are plenty of shows that welcome it.
I think at a minimum it should have to be 10 years old unless it's some ultra rare limited production model that most people could never see in person.
Rob Wirsing

k8096

The original poster asked to name the 6 different makes of automobiles that made a 12 cylinder engine.   

For American built cars, we have

Cadillac - 1931-37
Packard  1932-39 and the earlier twin six made in the late teens/early 20's
Lincoln    model K 1932-39 and the smaller Zephyr/Continental 1936-48.
Franklin    1933-34 (air cooled)
Auburn     1932-34
Pierce Arrow  1932-38

There were also several pre war European marques with twelve cylinder power plants including Rolls Royce, Hispano Suiza, and Maybach.   

In addition, there were a couple odd ball teens cars with v 12 engines that only a handful of each were made.   
J Gehring

OK

I'm a "Generation X"-er, and for what it's worth, I don't think the format of car shows is a problem.  Some car shows, especially our local CLC events, have 50s music.  But I enjoy that.  It makes some sense to have period music to go along with period cars, and 50s music is probably a good sweet spot to hit (early enough that it's distinctive, but late enough that people know it).

I enjoy bringing my pre-war cars to local shows, and I  do so often.  But it's no surprise they're seen less and less.  Every year, as the number of postwar cars considered antiques grows, the proportion of antique cars that are pre-war falls.  Plus, they're harder to drive, and more costly to repair, so they're more difficult to own for the hobbyist who is likely to enjoy bringing a car to a local show.  I love pre-war cars, and I wish I saw more of them at local shows, but the trend makes some sense.
O. Kerr

Lexi

#16
Yes, so many spot on comments. Where I live some of the shows have become populated by late model-especially high performance vehicles. So much so, that a fellow enthusiast who attended asked me "Where are all the old cars"? One long row of late model Mustangs, another of rather new Corvettes. Have nothing against these cars but a cut off year is required. Some promoters at night's end go on the PA and ask the drivers not to do burn outs when exiting. As a parallel, in Antique shows when promoters fail to vet what the dealers bring, the quality of the show declines, (or certainly changes depending on your point of view). They all seem to go through a similar cycle.

Also, most of the car TV shows lead one to believe that the vast majority of "car guys" live for chopping and rodding any classic they can get their hands and zip cutters on. They would paint a mustache on the Mona Lisa! "Stock Sucks" is a term I have actually heard on one such show! There definitely is at least two factions at car shows; those who have more of an interest in the heritage of a vehicle and those who are more interested in their performance aspects; with little or no regard for the historical. Sure there is some cross-over, but basically there are the two camps. I don't usually take my car to a show that is heavily weighted to the later just like I would not expect to see Currier and Ives art at Comicon. Clay/Lexi

Lexi

Yes Steven, I agree. We are all products of our environment and young people today are growing up in a different era than the one most of us experienced. I think there will always be car shows at least as long as there are cars and individuals who love to drive and take care of them, but they will continue to evolve and change. While a well kept car should out live us, advancing vintage does not guarantee that we shall continue to see them on the show circuit for many of the reasons discussed in this thread. Heck, changes in fuel, oil & emissions legislation have already (and will continue) to take their toll on old cars; making it more difficult to keep them on the road. As a plus I also agree that it certainly does draw attention to our older vehicles when they make an appearance! Clay/Lexi

dochawk

#18
Quote from: OK on August 27, 2016, 01:52:58 PM
  It makes some sense to have period music to go along with period cars, and 50s music is probably a good sweet spot to hit (early enough that it's distinctive, but late enough that people know it).


I dunno.

I have a '72, and if an event was going to play Disco, I'd make sure I stayed on the far side of town, or even in the next state, or go to the dentist . . .

(and, yes, I'm serious.)

hawk
1972 Eldorado convertible,  1997 Eldorado ETC (now awaiting parts swap from '95 donor), 1993 Fleetwood but no 1926 (yet)

Chuck Patton



Hello Gerald

You are correct an open mind IS necessary for growth in the future.

I am a baby boomer but my favorite vehicles are LaSalle automobiles (Mentor Matt Larson).  I have also evolved to admire the Cadillac 90 Series and the 1959-60 Cadillac's.  Additionally I have an OPEN mind to accept and enjoy any automobile a millennial is driving.  The key girls & boys is an open mind....
Appraiser-Broker-Consultant
Past CLC National Board Director
Past CLCMRC Director
Past CLC Motor City Region President
CLC 1959-60 Cadillac Chapter Director
CLC Life Member #23147