Author Topic: Body # 1 1957 Cadillac Eldorado Brougham  (Read 1611 times)

Offline Bill Young

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Re: Body # 1 1957 Cadillac Eldorado Brougham
« Reply #20 on: August 29, 2017, 08:19:16 PM »
The body No 1 car has no evidence of an Autronic Eye at all anywhere.
1972 Cadillac Fleetwood Eldorado Convertible in Coronation Red , White top , White seats with Oxblood dash and carpet

Offline Dave Ventresca

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Re: Body # 1 1957 Cadillac Eldorado Brougham
« Reply #21 on: August 30, 2017, 02:05:43 PM »
Mr. Link and others, the database is correct. I saw body #1 with my own eyes in Arizona about 18 years. Black and dusty. I looked right at the data plate. maybe the blue car is same one but painted. Dave

Offline V63

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  • Name: W Link
Re: Body # 1 1957 Cadillac Eldorado Brougham
« Reply #22 on: August 30, 2017, 05:28:05 PM »
something is amiss?

The (blue)#1 data plate shown reads "BODY BY FISHER"

all the known brougham data plates I've seen read:

"BODY BY FLEETWOOD"

That said I went thru the data base and 2 earliest data plates shown 'appear' to have FLEETWOOD stamped over (I assume FISHER) (refer Brougham database  #19 and 22)

Ironically, this example was end delivered to FISHER body division!


Paint Code for black is 10 or 110, that does not match the body #1 data plate shown here, (#122?)

#1, per the black sabre wheel example per the data base, has an Autronic eye in mid dash?

Do you remember the interior color from 18yrs ago of the black car? A blue interior is not very 'common' combination of the period (with black) most were variations of black and white.

« Last Edit: August 31, 2017, 07:59:51 AM by V63 »

Offline V63

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Re: Body # 1 1957 Cadillac Eldorado Brougham
« Reply #23 on: August 30, 2017, 08:52:09 PM »
Data base reports, on yet another page, that body #1 as
paint #122? Matching the blue #1 data plate on this thread.
« Last Edit: August 30, 2017, 10:48:06 PM by V63 »

Offline Dave Ventresca

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Re: Body # 1 1957 Cadillac Eldorado Brougham
« Reply #24 on: August 30, 2017, 11:56:20 PM »
I don't remember the interior color, because there were so many unusual cars in the guy's warehouse that I just did a passing glance at the data plate, and he forbid me to take pix. I f I remember correctly he also had a repro Waldorf corvette nomad, and a pair of 53 eldorados. He owned a chevy dealership in the San Francisco bay area in the 70s. forgot his name. Dave

Offline Bill Young

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Re: Body # 1 1957 Cadillac Eldorado Brougham
« Reply #25 on: August 31, 2017, 12:52:53 PM »
I am 62 and have been into 50's and 60's Cadillac's since about the age of 7. I have had my head all around these cars most of my life and what I can say is that when I visited this car a few weeks ago other than a considerable amount of disassembly having been done the car looked to me to be the carcass of a Cadillac that had sat relatively undisturbed for decades. I have seen Cadillac's that have sat like that. I discovered a 1960 Eldorado Convertible in 1991 that had not been on the road since 1968 in any way and had not been a daily driver since 1962 and brokered the sale of that car for the second owner. The car was restored by the purchaser. Nothing about this car smacks of tampering with what the car was assembled with about it. I am purely interested from the standpoint of my Love for these cars and wanting to see them preserved and used as they were intended to be.
1972 Cadillac Fleetwood Eldorado Convertible in Coronation Red , White top , White seats with Oxblood dash and carpet

Offline V63

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Re: Body # 1 1957 Cadillac Eldorado Brougham
« Reply #26 on: August 31, 2017, 04:38:05 PM »
As owner of this #1 brougham,

 I would order the build sheet for $50!

I included the one (of six) I ordered (posted in this thread for #483).  That is of such a historical value!

Sometimes there are notes added that might explain the 18B? I hope that it would then be posted here and the data base?




Offline GKC

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  • Name: Grant Capes
Re: Body # 1 1957 Cadillac Eldorado Brougham
« Reply #27 on: September 02, 2017, 08:17:45 AM »
There was and is a control box for the eye in the trunk as should be.
I just spoke to the owner about this this past week. He informed me that some other GM models had the eye itself up in the front of the car near a an opening such as the grille....?? I'm looking over the front clip and forward inner fenderwells to see if I can see any evidence of it being mounted somewhere else.

This car was certainly always 122 Lake Placid Blue metallic because it has the matching blue interior and it shows now sign of EVER being black ANYWHERE.
Besides that though, One of the things the owner is very particular about is we get the color correct. He LOVES this car like a child.

I asked him about the eye,... did he remember when driving it did the lights dim automatically.
He told me strait out..... " Being #1 and the wiring changes and carburetor changes etc. that could have been done as experiments,  I deliberately didn't drive it at night"  I think I would have done the same.
 
About a build sheet. He was told he would get a bunch of paperwork for this car  which he never did receive from them.  Also if there were a build sheet placed in the car ,..... where might it be??? I have not removed the rear seat yet and was wondering if you all could tell me where I might look.???  I am VERY careful when disassembling things from this car because I don't want to miss a marking or anything else that may have historical value.

Bill has pictures of the untouched paper tag under the hood. I am also sure that that was NEVER removed because that is something else the owner is very clear about.  He'd really rather I don't remove it. It is hard to tell if it is just a single piece of paper because its under a plastic cover and held in place by 2 screws. I understand though that that paper was for the orig. owner. and it also states delivered to Fisher body division. The owner knew it was an important part of body#1 and never removed it.
I have just taken a few photos of that tag and will post as soon as possible.

Bill, if you have good photos of that tag you are welcome to post them.
I'm going to be looking very closely under the dash and all other possible places for a plug or wiring that may have to do with the eye itself. I have a decent wiring diagram in my repair manual BUT. just as some things are always omitted in books, This 57 58 manual I have only shows the belt driven air ride pump that was on the 58 ,..... there isn't even a picture of the electric pump that's mounted on top of the generator like this car has. I have seen the identical pump listed on Mastermind Inc. so I know its correct but my book completely omits this pump.

As for the door panels,..... There is a piece of metal horizontally in the door panels. Its about a 2 1/2 inch strip. From an earlier post am I to understand that the normal production cars had a larger metal covering at the bottom of the door?
Seems to me that they may have decided they needed something More substantial at the bottom of the door there fore changed that in the production model????

I am VERY happy to see all the intrest in this car and in working on it I continue to be astonished as I learn more about it. I know cars pretty well, I know that the Lincoln Mark II were also hand built,   But this car,,, WOW,  the amount of technical and electrical additions they made on theses cars for being 1956 and 57 is astonishing!.
I really appreciate all the info and questions all of you have brought to light so far AND, If there is something in particular that you would like to see a picture of please let me know and Ill do my best to provide it.  With that said,......
Bill, You have quite a few technical pictures if I remember right.  Feel free to share whatever you like and I cant thank you enough for your visit and all the information you are able to share.
You guys know the history of this car like I know the history of the Futura and Batmobile. Your knowledge of this car is of GREAT help to me and again,.... I REALLY appreciate all the input and inquires!
Thanks a bunch guys! Bill you have a standing invitation to see it whenever you like!
Grant Capes

Offline V63

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Re: Body # 1 1957 Cadillac Eldorado Brougham
« Reply #28 on: September 02, 2017, 03:33:44 PM »
The production (1957-8) broughams all had the electric air suspension pump. Only Std Cadillacs had the belt driven pump. The belt driven was the better choice it turns out.

The build sheet can be ORDERED from GM historical services. Just google it. You will get a sheet like I posted earlier on #483 for $50! Best money spent! It will also confirm by factory records, how it left the factory.

My 'guess' is the dash has been recovered post production and they simply removed the eye. The Autronic eye first appeared in 1951 as 6 volt. They were pretty much proven for 1957 models.  I've never seen one that early mounted outside...but Lincoln did mount on the fender. Ours still works 100%!

The aluminum door panels were below the steel upper door panels. They were used well into the 57 production...but the paint was peeling off them so bad they opted for cardboard and upholstered. The change was so late that many consider an upholstered panel with 1958 models.

If you can get to AZ I can show you 5 broughams between 2 close locations. We have 3 available, and some parts I've mentioned earlier in this thread.




« Last Edit: September 02, 2017, 03:38:01 PM by V63 »

Offline David King (kz78hy)

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Re: Body # 1 1957 Cadillac Eldorado Brougham
« Reply #29 on: September 18, 2017, 04:54:14 PM »
If the manual you are using only shows the belt driven pump, you are using the Std. Cadillac manual.  You need the Brougham supplient manual.  I have a few extra copies (OE versions).  The door panels caught my eye as the leather wrapped versions did not show up until body #200.

I will be happy to assist as I've messed with these cars for 10 years and have new and used parts.

David
 
David King
CLC 22014  (life)
1958 Eldorado Brougham 615
1959 Eldorado Brougham 56
1960 Eldorado Brougham 83
1998 Deville d'Elegance
2003 Deville gifted to daughter
1964 Studebaker Commander
1966 Pontiac GTO convertible
2012 Volt
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Director and Founder, Eldorado Brougham Chapter of the CLC
Past President, Motor City Region of the CLC

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Offline GKC

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  • Name: Grant Capes
Re: Body # 1 1957 Cadillac Eldorado Brougham
« Reply #30 on: September 19, 2017, 02:05:33 PM »
Thanks much! I'll write more when I can,
Still cleaning up from the hurricane
Thanks,, Grant

Offline GKC

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  • Name: Grant Capes
Re: Body # 1 1957 Cadillac Eldorado Brougham
« Reply #31 on: October 16, 2017, 11:23:36 AM »
Could it be that only one carpet (mouton?) was expected to be offered when body #1 was built?

The data plate itself is different and notice it has an extra hole on the right. I've seen this before but not on broughams.

Notice your stamped 7059-X vs 7059x

ACC 18B is very interesting too. Since the brougham had no 'accessories',

CHROME: We have a set of fresh rechromed wheels available too

Hello V63,
I am finally getting caught  up after the hurricane and other various projects ( actually getting a quote for a new roof today)

I have spoken to the owner and he has interest  in the set of wheels that you spoke of.
Here with the car I have 7 Brougham wheels, .... 3 pretty nice borderline usable, 4 not so nice in need of restoration.

Do you take in the wheels as cores toward the new set? 

I also have a question about the front main bumper........ When I spoke to space coast plating he told me that all the large(  full from side to side) lower bumpers hes ever seen were stamped, ....  This one is very obviously cast just like the corner bumpers front and rear.
Was this man mistaken or is this a one off bumper on body #1???  That bumper IS usable and I would just as soon use it as is if it is a one off piece????   

Thanks you again for all your help and I will be looking forward to hearing from you.

BTW, I would be interested in a set of re chromed bumpers as well if someone has some ready to go. I have 2 full sets here with the car except  for the front lower.

Thanks again,.... Grant

Offline Highwayman68

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Re: Body # 1 1957 Cadillac Eldorado Brougham
« Reply #32 on: October 16, 2017, 12:08:21 PM »
Grant and Bill, I will be going to the car show in Auburndale on Saturday the 28th and would like to meet up.

Offline Bill Young

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Re: Body # 1 1957 Cadillac Eldorado Brougham
« Reply #33 on: October 16, 2017, 09:37:25 PM »
Looks like I will be will be there too.
1972 Cadillac Fleetwood Eldorado Convertible in Coronation Red , White top , White seats with Oxblood dash and carpet

Offline GKC

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Re: Body # 1 1957 Cadillac Eldorado Brougham
« Reply #34 on: October 17, 2017, 01:40:21 PM »
I will try and make it but cant say for sure. Grant

Offline Quentin Hall

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Re: Body # 1 1957 Cadillac Eldorado Brougham
« Reply #35 on: October 17, 2017, 06:40:05 PM »
Brougham bumpers were cast aluminium, not stamped steel, and are notoriously difficult to rechrome.
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Offline David King (kz78hy)

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Re: Body # 1 1957 Cadillac Eldorado Brougham
« Reply #36 on: October 18, 2017, 09:22:13 AM »
Ok , listen up  , calling all 1957 and '58 Eldorado Brougham experts. I have visited 1957 Eldorado Brougham #1 and I have a question. On the Body Plate it states 7059X , Body 1 , TR 252 , PT. 122 . Obviously the car is Lake Placid Blue with Blue leather , however the manual states that the digit following the trim number calls out which of the two carpet selections were chosen. Note it says only 252. Second after ACC it states 18B , what is that about? Help. Engine number 5770000237.

My list has Body #1 with carpet being 1, so Karakul.  The rest of the numbers match up perfectly, with VIN, ext. color and interior color.  Not sure what the 18B would have been.  Maybe they were sorting out how to manage these special cars.  Since this was a GM owned car, it is hard telling what was done to it while in the companies possession.  Running changes are likely, so this car will likely be a little different than the later cars.

Like Quentin said, all the bumpers are cast aluminum.  In the '58's I have owned or messed with, the body number was scratched into the I/P on the underside of the LH corner.

David
David King
CLC 22014  (life)
1958 Eldorado Brougham 615
1959 Eldorado Brougham 56
1960 Eldorado Brougham 83
1998 Deville d'Elegance
2003 Deville gifted to daughter
1964 Studebaker Commander
1966 Pontiac GTO convertible
2012 Volt
CLCMRC benefactor 197

Director and Founder, Eldorado Brougham Chapter of the CLC
Past President, Motor City Region of the CLC

Rare Parts brand suspension parts Retailer

Offline Bill Young

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Re: Body # 1 1957 Cadillac Eldorado Brougham
« Reply #37 on: October 18, 2017, 10:43:56 AM »
David , Thank You for your help. We now have another piece of the puzzle.
1972 Cadillac Fleetwood Eldorado Convertible in Coronation Red , White top , White seats with Oxblood dash and carpet

Offline V63

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Re: Body # 1 1957 Cadillac Eldorado Brougham
« Reply #38 on: October 18, 2017, 04:56:39 PM »
I just negotiated a deal on the brougham wheels!

 in the event of non performance I will advise!

Also check out hemmings classic car dec 2017!
« Last Edit: October 18, 2017, 04:58:49 PM by V63 »

Offline GKC

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  • Name: Grant Capes
Re: Body # 1 1957 Cadillac Eldorado Brougham
« Reply #39 on: October 23, 2017, 08:39:14 AM »
Yes I heard about the article ,
any idea where I can pick up a copy locally?   Just a larger book store I would hope?
Thanks Grant