1956 wonderbar aftermarket antenna

[Rob Leech]

 I'm trying to install a new antenna using the original antenna switch on the receiver. I want to test the switch to make sure it is sending voltage up and down when you turn the radio on and off. Here is what I know. There is voltage on the brown wire going into the switch whenever the key is on. The radio is working. I have seen the diagram of the switch from the 2010 antenna thread. I have voltage on one post of the switch (can't remember if it was the blue or the green) when I depress the button on the front of the switch. All grounds are good.  I thought I should see one post hot all the time and the other post hot when the radio is turned on. I can only see voltage on the blue and green wires when I push the button on the front of the switch. Can anybody explain the theory of what gets voltage to the green and blue wires. Thanks Rob.  J Gomez where are you???

If your trying to install an antenna and want to use an aftermarket, you should read the replies to this post, the new antenna is installed and working perfectly.  All the info you need has been supplied by these guys. Thanks to all.

[J. Gomez]

I'm trying to install a new antenna using the original antenna switch on the receiver. I want to test the switch to make sure it is sending voltage up and down when you turn the radio on and off. Here is what I know. There is voltage on the brown wire going into the switch whenever the key is on. The radio is working. I have seen the diagram of the switch from the 2010 antenna thread. I have voltage on one post of the switch (can't remember if it was the blue or the green) when I depress the button on the front of the switch. All grounds are good.  I thought I should see one post hot all the time and the other post hot when the radio is turned on. I can only see voltage on the blue and green wires when I push the button on the front of the switch. Can anybody explain the theory of what gets voltage to the green and blue wires. Thanks Rob.  J Gomez where are you???

Rob,

Lol present..!   

The antenna switch on the radio is a twostep pull and push in both it would send the +12V to the antenna motor to go forward or reverse. 

When you mention an aftermarket electric antenna those are a bit different wiring arrangements depending on the type, some have the +12V and ground hot all the time and the control lead to operate the motor with +12V to go up or open to go down. Older type have they need to reversed the polarity on the motor to go up or down.   

The original Delco motor have the two fields winding separate to operate in forward or reverse on +12V on either green or blue wire.

Good luck..!

[Rob Leech]

 I never knew that the antenna uses a push pull. Kind of like the convertible top switch I assume. Your right about the after market approach. I will have to find two hot sources. The ground is easy, the hot sources get tricky. The problem with the hot sources is that one of them will have to go off when the radio is switched off to drop the mast. Can't think of any place that happens. All the leads to the radio seem to stay hot all the time. Anybody know of an external hot spot that turns off when you switch off the radio?  What about something around the speaker? Thanks Rob

[J. Gomez]

Rob,
Hmm ok here is one thought..!

If your aftermarket antenna is the type that has to have the hot +12V and ground (red and black wires) and the control one (blue or green ) with +12V for the antenna to go up and when removed to go down.

You already have two wires from the radio going over to the antenna so you could use them to rig a toggle switch that on one position it puts +12V on the control lead and on the other position it removes it.

I believe the new antennas will open the +12V on the control lead once it reaches the top, you may need to test if yours functions the same.

There could be other alternative but with la lack of Merlo at hand brain cells are a bit lazy to go further..!   

Good luck..!

[Rich in Colorado]

Rob,
I ran into this problem with my '58.  When I bought it, it had a separate switch under the dash to operate the aftermarket antenna. I didn't like that extra switch.  I had to pull the radio to repair it anyway so I wired a power wire from the on/off switch in the radio. I used the existing antenna power wire from the fuse box to the radio to provide power all the time (when the car is on) to the antenna.  I tapped off the power switch, in the radio, to contol the antenna up and down.  Now when I turn on the radio, the antenna goes up.  When I turn the radio off, it goes down.  If I turn off the car while the radio is on, the antenna stays up.  I actually like this operation better than the original.  The antenna is up when you need it with no other action.
I'm out of town right now, but if you need more specific info let me know and I'll look at it this weekend. 
Good luck,
Rich

[J. Gomez]

Rob,
I ran into this problem with my '58.  When I bought it, it had a separate switch under the dash to operate the aftermarket antenna. I didn't like that extra switch.  I had to pull the radio to repair it anyway so I wired a power wire from the on/off switch in the radio. I used the existing antenna power wire from the fuse box to the radio to provide power all the time (when the car is on) to the antenna.  I tapped off the power switch, in the radio, to contol the antenna up and down.  Now when I turn on the radio, the antenna goes up.  When I turn the radio off, it goes down.  If I turn off the car while the radio is on, the antenna stays up.  I actually like this operation better than the original.  The antenna is up when you need it with no other action.
I'm out of town right now, but if you need more specific info let me know and I'll look at it this weekend. 
Good luck,
Rich

Rich,

Well since I’m not familiar with the type of antenna Rob have, but if he has the same style it sounds per your note above the control lead on the antenna would require to have the +12V all the time to operate and off to lower it.    <-tip thanks

Rob,

With that setup you could use one of the two wires in place now either the dark blue or dark green to supply the +12V always hot to the red wire (fuse it) for the antenna and the other wire can be used for the control lead.

You can tap the control lead at the switched power wire from the radio over to the amplifier, which is behind the radio via a blade terminal, this is control by the radio “on/off” switch.

When you turn the ignition switch to “ACC” or “IGN” you will have the +12V from the radio, turning the radio on will raised the antenna, turning the radio off or ignition switch off it would lower it.

Good luck..!

[carguyblack]

This interchange has been very interesting to me. Rob, does your new modern antenna use the original chrome recessed escutcheon and nut? What antenna did you decide to purchase, if I may ask?
Thanks,  Chuck

[Rob Leech]

 Everything is finished and working perfectly, I thank you all for your thoughts. I can shed a little more light on your questions. The antenna was from Auto zone. The set up had a black ground wire, one red wire (which is fused) for constant hot, and one blue wire for up operation. If power is taken off the blue wire, the antenna retracts. I used the ground where the original antenna was grounded to the cowl. I went thru the cowl with the red and blue wires. This was easily done because the new antenna wire is about half the diameter of the original. Once thru the firewall, I attached the red wire to a constant hot coming from the breaker by the left heater core. I ran the blue wire to the wire going to the amplifier from the radio. That wire is only hot when you turn on the radio. The antenna therefore stays down until you turn on the radio. If you turn off the radio it goes down, or if you turn off the ignition switch it goes down as well. I enclosed all my wiring on the engine side of the cowl with black plastic wire sheath. It is hardly noticeable. One more thing. The new chrome nut that holds the shaft and motor in place at the fender is strange. I did not have the original nut. It would probably have worked on the new shaft.  I could not find a socket in my box that would work. No socket would go deep enough into the chrome escutcheon to turn it anyway. I modified the new nut the way the factory did it with two small grooves in the nut using a wiz wheel. I took my smaller spark plug socket and cut it with a grind rock to fit the cuts in the nut. Worked perfectly. It looks exactly like the original antenna unless you crawl under the car to take a look, then all you see is the vacuum can unless you really look hard. All of the cars original wiring is still there except the antenna wire.  I actually heard an AM station today. That takes me back. 

[Lexi]

Rob very interesting project. I got some antenna work t do on my '56 next year. One question, is it possible to work on the antenna without removing (or pulling outward), the fender? Or must one at least partially remove the fender to access the antenna on this year of Caddy? Thanks, Clay/Lexi

[Roger Zimmermann]

If you can lift the car at the front high enough to go under the front fender, you will see that removing the antenna is easy.

[Lexi]

Roger thanks! That is encouraging. Would driving it up on ramps be high enough? Clay

[Roger Zimmermann]

As I wrote, il you can go under the front fender with your head/body, you are set. I would say yes to your question about the ramps.

[carguyblack]

A helper is always nice as some of the connection bolts tend to be a wee bit obstinate after 60 years. Undoing the bracket bolt from below and then trying to turn the recessed nut in the escutcheon while not have the whole thing spin or fall on the ground if and when it releases is a good time by yourself.
That nut in the escutcheon takes a special tool to drop into the 2 notches. I made one myself by grinding and old socket of that diameter.
It's an "easy" job in that you can see what has to be done, but actually doing it may be the challenge. But remember, time is of no concern when you're working on your Cadillac!
Chuck

[Lexi]

Thanks Roger and Chuck. Remember Chuck, nothing is easy with these cars, ('hunt and peck' as you once said). Also, please ensure that Jose gets his royalties for the use of his quotation! Clay/Lexi

[carguyblack]

Dear friend, Jose,  would be comfortably retired by now if even I alone would have given him a nickle everytime he gave me advice, photos, diagrams, manual excerpts, encouragement, quotes, instructions, drawings, pictures of the kids, etc etc.  That man is invaluable to me and those of us who own 56's. Please don't tell him he should be getting paid!
Chuck

[J. Gomez]

Thanks Roger and Chuck. Remember Chuck, nothing is easy with these cars, ('hunt and peck' as you once said). Also, please ensure that Jose gets his royalties for the use of his quotation! Clay/Lexi

Clay,

Much appreciated, always glad to help friends ...! 

Dear friend, Jose,  would be comfortably retired by now if even I alone would have given him a nickle everytime he gave me advice, photos, diagrams, manual excerpts, encouragement, quotes, instructions, drawings, pictures of the kids, etc etc.  That man is invaluable to me and those of us who own 56's. Please don't tell him he should be getting paid!
Chuck

Chuck,

Not to worry, I'm keeping tabs the case of Merlot bill will be coming shortly, remember I still own a few bottles to Johnny and his interest rate is huge on the payback..! 

[carguyblack]