Author Topic: How is judging scored ?  (Read 204 times)

Offline Altamonte-26

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How is judging scored ?
« on: November 09, 2017, 10:35:53 PM »
Please don't laugh. This may be obvious to everyone, but as a newbie - I can't figure it out.  I've read over the CLC 2017 Judging manual - and ... well ...

I'm afraid to enter my car in a competition because I can see how it easily might have many points deducted - I do drive it a few hundred miles per year, but that might still be good enough to not be embarrassed depending on how the scoring works. It's actually in beautiful condition - but ... I don't understand how strict things are. It might actually be in better shape than it was originally delivered.

Does a car get scored starting with 100 points total, and gets counted down - thus a negative score is possible, or is it per category where on the judging sheet is it 115 points for the operations, 150 points engine compartment, etc. (there are 610 possible points for Class 22 and up) - and counted down from those values, which means zero is the minimum ? Or is it something else ? 

What is confusing is that the final scores seem to go to 100 - yet I can't get any of the above to add up in any meaningful way. I suppose they could normalize the 610 points to a range of 0-100, and thus each "point" is worth 0.16393 - and rounded to the nearest 1/100th - I could see how a car could have 6 "points" subtracted and still score a 99.




1969 DeVille Conv & 1972 Eldorado Conv

Offline Dan LeBlanc

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Re: How is judging scored ?
« Reply #1 on: November 10, 2017, 06:57:56 AM »
Each car starts out with a perfect score.  Point deductions are taken off the maximum allowable score for each item of concern found.  The total score is then divided by a factor (used to be 4 under the old rules) to arrive at a score out of 100.

If you're worried about points and what not, save yourself the worry, enter your car as display only, and enjoy the day meeting old friends, friends you haven't met yet, and relax.  I'm at that point now where I could care less.  My 70 is excellent, with some non authentic items, for example, so, when it finally appears at a Grand National, it will be display only so I can relax and enjoy.
Dan LeBlanc - CLC # 27657
1970 DeVille Convertible
1977 Continental Town Car

Offline Steve Passmore

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Re: How is judging scored ?
« Reply #2 on: November 10, 2017, 06:58:59 AM »
Second that Dan. :)
Steve

Offline gmurph

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Re: How is judging scored ?
« Reply #3 on: November 10, 2017, 07:05:55 AM »
I had the same concerns with my 72. I am just going to enter it for the past presidents award. It is an all original, one family car, but it is a driver.
Greg Murphy CLC#24416

1941 60S
1952 Dodge B3F
1972 Coupe de Ville

Offline Jeff Hansen

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Re: How is judging scored ?
« Reply #4 on: November 10, 2017, 07:46:51 AM »
If you have any questions about how judging and scoring work, don't hesitate to reach out to Chief Judge Bill Anderson via phone call (443-994-5455) or email (rivsrgr8@aol.com).  A phone call may be best (Bill is in the eastern time zone).  He can answer all of your questions as they pertain to judging.  Tell him I sent you.

Looking forward to seeing your car at an upcoming Grand National Meet regardless of whether you enter it for judging or for display!

Jeff
Jeff Hansen
1941 6019S Sixty Special
1942 7533 Imperial Sedan

Offline Altamonte-26

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Re: How is judging scored ?
« Reply #5 on: November 10, 2017, 07:54:49 AM »
Each car starts out with a perfect score.  Point deductions are taken off the maximum allowable score for each item of concern found.  The total score is then divided by a factor (used to be 4 under the old rules) to arrive at a score out of 100.

Got the answer out of your replies - thanks.  610 judging points possible, divide by 6.1 gets you to 100 points scoring possible.  Still formidable - eh ?

Seems you all are saying fu'ghed about judging and instead enjoy.  Good advice I believe I'll take.
1969 DeVille Conv & 1972 Eldorado Conv

Offline gary griffin

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Re: How is judging scored ?
« Reply #6 on: November 10, 2017, 10:54:48 AM »
Judging is a tough job.  I did it at Fall Festival in 2016 and had to take away points from the car I like the most and would rather own than the winner.  It is not a "favorite car"  choice but it is a "Authenticity and condition " choice.   Of the LaSalles in the group I judged there were a couple I would have chosen for my own car and not the winner by any means. Nothing against the winner, just not my "favorite model" although it was pristine and authentic and in fine shape and deserved first place for sure!
Gary Griffin

1940 LaSalle 5029 4 door convertible sedan
1942 Cadillac 6719 restoration almost complete?
1942 Cadillac 6719 (parts car) (Gone)
1957 Cadillac 60-special (Needs a little TLC)

Offline Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621

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Re: How is judging scored ?
« Reply #7 on: November 10, 2017, 11:12:36 AM »
I think all that is being said here is the obvious: If you enjoy participating in the process of having your car judged, then do so. Don't if you don't.

Pretty simple really. :)
A Cadillac Motorcar is a Possession for Which There is no Acceptable Substitute

Offline Dan LeBlanc

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Re: How is judging scored ?
« Reply #8 on: November 10, 2017, 11:16:07 AM »
I agree with Eric.  I've done the enter my car for judging thing.  Yeah, it was fun . . . sort of.  I don't regret the experience.  That was then with a different car.  New car, new approach.  I'm more about relaxation now.
Dan LeBlanc - CLC # 27657
1970 DeVille Convertible
1977 Continental Town Car

Offline gkhashem

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Re: How is judging scored ?
« Reply #9 on: November 10, 2017, 01:37:02 PM »
You read the judging manual multiple times and then honestly look at your car and see what needs to be corrected. The you decide what you are willing to correct. If your not willing to fix the issues then you lose points. At some point you decide if it's worth the effort.

That's it and that's what you need to do. After you learn what is expected you will know as much as the judges do and if you honestly judge your own car you will be close to what the car would score.

Then when in doubt ask others who have done as you. You will discover there is a lot of misinformation from people who do not do their homework. In some cases you may know more than the judge.

While someone will now say I am being critical. Blah blah blah you do not appreciate someone who volunteers to judge nothing could be further from the truth. The judge who volunteers needs to be prepared and the participant who enters needs to do the same. Do not volunteer or enter if your not willing to put forth the effort. That means work and effort.

Why? Well not everyone is the same or is as prepared or as informed.
1959 Cadillac Coupe Deville
1964 Oldsmobile 98 Town Sedan
1966 Cadillac Coupe Deville (Senior #861)
1970 GMC C/K 1500
1978 Cadillac Coupe Deville (Senior Crown #959)
1984 Oldsmobile Delta 88 Royal Brougham Coupe
1989 Buick Reatta
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1991 Cadillac Eldorado Biarritz (Senior #838)

Offline Mike Josephic CLC #3877

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Re: How is judging scored ?
« Reply #10 on: November 10, 2017, 04:05:11 PM »
To expand on what others have said, judging is hard work.  It requires dedication,
impartial objectivity and a good knowledge of (1) the Class you have volunteered
for and (2) the judging rules and standards.  This takes time, study and work.

I judged at about 25 Grand Nationals.  When you have a popular class to judge as I
did Class 15, (1954 - 1956) there may be up to 15 - 20 cars to do.  If you take
about 20 minutes with each car that adds up to almost 7 hours of hard work.  If
you're in say Texas, Kansas City, Florida or other "hot spot" in July / August walking
on the hot concrete, it can be quite tiring.  Getting down on the pavement to look at the chassis, under the dash, etc. gets tough as you get older.

Quite frankly, I quit doing it since I'm 68 and it was becoming difficult.  Yes, I much
enjoyed doing it and also liked helping fellow members to improve their cars.  That's
part of what judges are supposed to do -- help the owners with authenticity
questions and help them win the next time out.

Next GN you're at take a minute to thank the judges for doing your car and realize
that they are there to help you, not make life difficult!

Mike


« Last Edit: November 11, 2017, 04:30:26 PM by Mike Josephic CLC #3877 »
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1973 Cadillac Eldorado
1995 Cadillac Seville
2004 Escalade
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Online cadillacmike68

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Re: How is judging scored ?
« Reply #11 on: November 10, 2017, 11:54:17 PM »
And if you like chrome alternators, stainless steel braiding on your pressurized AC and PS lines, dual exhaust on a 1965 or later car, or radial tires for safety reasons pre 1973, don't have your car judged.
Regards,
"Cadillac" Mike
Current:
1968 DeVille Convertible
1996 Fleetwood Brougham
2009 STS NorthStar Platinum ed RWD
2011 CTS PRemiun ed Sedan RWD
Past:
2008 CTS Premium ed Sedan AWD
2005 CTS Hi-Feature Sedan RWD
2000 ElDorado ESC Hard Boot Convertible
1995 Fleetwood Brougham
1973 Sedan DeVille
1970 Fleetwood Brougham
1969 DeVille Convertible