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Transmission Compound Gearset names

Started by wbdeford, January 21, 2018, 08:52:09 AM

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wbdeford

I'm familiar with Simpson and Ravineaux and how those are put together, but are there names for the following?

The rear+reverse units of original and controlled coupling Hydramatics
The 4 speed+reverse such as in the 700R4.
others you may be familiar with
?

Thanks!
1958 Sedan de Ville

Past:
1956 Fleetwood 75 Sedan
1957 Fleetwood 60 Special
1958 Miller-Meteor Futura Landau Duplex
1960 Coupe de Ville
1966 De Ville Convertible
1970 De Ville Convertible
1971 Eldorado Convertible
1979 Sedan de Ville
1980 Seville

bcroe

#1
The first Generals 4 speed autos were like the previous 3 speeds, but with
an overdrive gear and a lock up torque converter placed in front, instead
of a full time torque converter.  Bruce Roe

TJ Hopland

Didn't Simpson have something to do with Ford?  And it was first used in the 'Turbo' which later became the 400?

Check out this series if you want to see how those things worked.   I think he may name the stuff too.   The same channel has lots of cool videos.   I found the ones on hybrid trans axles interesting.  In those they sometimes use the electric motors as 'brakes' where you may have previously used a band.   Some of the presenters are not as good as others.   The guy that did the video in the link below is the one I like the most.   For what appears to usually be a one man production they are really well done. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ygkRuwCpKxU
StPaul/Mpls, MN USA

73 Eldo convert w/FiTech EFI
80 Eldo Diesel
90 CDV
And other assorted stuff I keep buying for some reason

wbdeford

Quote from: bcroe on January 21, 2018, 12:21:47 PM
The first Generals 4 speed autos were like the previous 3 speeds, but with
an overdrive gear and a lock up torque converter placed in front, instead
of a full time torque converter.  Bruce Roe

The first 4 speeds were the 1940 Hydra-Matic.  All the Cadillac automatic transmissions were 4 speed, with the same setup (carrier of set 1 tied to sun of set 2 via a fluid coupling, and ring of set 2 tied to sun of set 3, and carriers of sets 2 and 3 tied to the output.)  Sets 2 and 3 are what I am hoping to find a name for--though maybe there isn't one.  They used this up until the TH400 in 1964. 

TH400 is a Simpson, and so is the Chrysler Torqueflite and probably .  Simpson is 2 sets with the sun gears tied together and the carrier of one unit tied to the ring gear of the other.  Then, as you describe, they use Simpson + an extra overdrive to get 4 speed.

700R4 is able to get overdrive with just the two sets. The ring of each set is tied to the carrier of the other.  This is the other one I'm looking for the name of.  I think my 1997 Subaru has a very similar configuration to 700R4.
1958 Sedan de Ville

Past:
1956 Fleetwood 75 Sedan
1957 Fleetwood 60 Special
1958 Miller-Meteor Futura Landau Duplex
1960 Coupe de Ville
1966 De Ville Convertible
1970 De Ville Convertible
1971 Eldorado Convertible
1979 Sedan de Ville
1980 Seville

wbdeford

Quote from: TJ Hopland on January 21, 2018, 03:58:00 PM
Didn't Simpson have something to do with Ford?  And it was first used in the 'Turbo' which later became the 400?

Check out this series if you want to see how those things worked.   I think he may name the stuff too.   The same channel has lots of cool videos.   I found the ones on hybrid trans axles interesting.  In those they sometimes use the electric motors as 'brakes' where you may have previously used a band.   Some of the presenters are not as good as others.   The guy that did the video in the link below is the one I like the most.   For what appears to usually be a one man production they are really well done. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ygkRuwCpKxU

That's a nice video from a little skimming.  He is describing the original Hydra-Matic design. Even though they changed them a lot for the Controlled Coupling, a.k.a, Jetaway, the general gearset design itself is the same.  The Controlled Coupling eliminates bands entirely as far as shifting goes, making it much, much smoother.  (It still has a band, but it is only used to lock the rear unit for engine braking when the shifter is on L.) 
1958 Sedan de Ville

Past:
1956 Fleetwood 75 Sedan
1957 Fleetwood 60 Special
1958 Miller-Meteor Futura Landau Duplex
1960 Coupe de Ville
1966 De Ville Convertible
1970 De Ville Convertible
1971 Eldorado Convertible
1979 Sedan de Ville
1980 Seville

bcroe

Quote from: wbdefordThe first 4 speeds were the 1940 Hydra-Matic. 
All the Cadillac automatic transmissions were 4 speed 

Right, I forgot to say those using a regular torque converter, overdrive
units introduced AFTER the original Hydro.  Bruce Roe

Roger Zimmermann

Very interesting videos, spoken in a very understandable English!
1956 Sedan de Ville (sold)
1956 Eldorado Biarritz
1957 Eldorado Brougham (sold)
1972 Coupe de Ville
2011 DTS
CLCMRC benefactor #101

TJ Hopland

I think Model T was the first mass produced use of a planetary gear set for a car transmission.  That didn't have any clutches just bands that were directly tensioned by the foot pedals.  Early repair manuals told you what type of saddle leather was best to make a replacement band and what size to cut it if you could not get a genuine part.  It would be interesting to see a manual written like that today.   Other than duct tape bet there isn't much laying around that could fix anything on a modern car. 

I first found that channel when I was looking up something on an Allison transmission.   They had a nice video clearly explaining the basic concepts of an auto trans that happened to use Allison guts because they are big and easy to see especially on camera.   There was a few things I didn't quite get till I found that video.  Even a 6 speed I think it was seemed pretty simple clamped in the vice. 

Another place where those gear sets are getting used all the time now is power tools and appliances.   Apparently creeping slow for a modern compact brushless motor is like 20k rpm.   If the head on your tool only turns in the 100's there is a lot of gearing going on and what they seem to do is stack up planetary sets.  5 or 6 stacks doesn't seem to be uncommon.   More amazing thing to me is there is almost no machining involved, its all a sintered process which isn't much more expensive than doing it in plastic and for the most part the things hold up. 
StPaul/Mpls, MN USA

73 Eldo convert w/FiTech EFI
80 Eldo Diesel
90 CDV
And other assorted stuff I keep buying for some reason

timer2

Excellent videos but I was always under the impression that the transmission serial number with the "C" stood for Cadillac and not the month, March.   T. Irvin

Roger Zimmermann

You are right. A-53 was for CC; the other makes, Pontiac and Olds had another letter, as well as those sold to Lincoln and other manufacturers. The teacher said also that this transmission was used on Buick which is not correct. Anyway, he did a fantastic job.
I found another thread discussing a 1957 transmission. The presentation and the way the man is speaking is like day and night, I looked for 3 minutes only.
1956 Sedan de Ville (sold)
1956 Eldorado Biarritz
1957 Eldorado Brougham (sold)
1972 Coupe de Ville
2011 DTS
CLCMRC benefactor #101