Can't start my '79 Fleetwood...

[J.C.]

I'd appreciate any help you guys could offer!  Okay, here's my problem: sometimes I simply cannot get my '79 Fleetwood to start.  And when it won't start, it will not start at all without a jump even though the battery is almost new. 

This happened three times during the last two months.  I put the key in the ignition, turn the key and hear the car trying to turn over, sort of making that sound a whinnying horse makes, I pump the gas pedal a few times, and as I keep trying to get the car to turn over, that sound gets quitter and quieter until nothing happens when I turn the key.  Then the tow truck comes and the driver gets the car going.  I took it to one mechanic who did a tune up and said he couldn't find anything else wrong.  Couldn't get the car started again.  Tow truck comes again, gets it started.  Then it wouldn't start again.  I took the car to another mechanic who has had the car a week or two to fix this and other issues but he says the car always starts fine with him.  I go outside his shop, the car won't start.  He says "Hmm...  I'll work on it tomorrow."  Next day he says he went out and started it up, no problem.  So, these guys say there's nothing wrong, yet I'm not imagining that on all these occasions, I couldn't get it to start.

Maybe I'm flooding it, pumping the gas too much.

(1)  When you start a '79, should you pump the gas pedal?

(2)  If the car won't start when the gas pedal is being pumped, should you push the pedal all the way down and hold it there until the car turns over?

(3)  If you try to start the car without putting gas in and it won't turn it over, at what point do you start pumping gas in and how do you know how much to pump in without flooding it?

(4) I had a '79 Olds 98 that had a similar problem and I remember being told to pop the hood and put a screwdriver into the carburetor to hold the flap open - whenever I did that, the car would start, guaranteed.  Is that what I've got to do here?  My Dad had a '79 Sedan DeVille - I don't remember him needing to put a screwdriver in the carburetor to get the car started.  What's wrong here?

I would really appreciate some input!  Obviously I'm not a technical expert, so I'm frustrated.  Thanks!

[Jeff Rosansky CLC #28373]

Is it trying to start and just not quite firing or is nothing happening?
It could be the starter not engaging on you. The first question is, Is the engine itself spinning when you try to start it? I would assume it happens multiple times to you and it is when you are alone. If so, open the hood and go back in the car and hit the starter. You should be able to see the fan spinning. The starter will make a hi pitched whine if it spins but doesn't engage.
Jeff

[J.C.]

Yes, it tries to start but after several tries it just runs out of energy - then I just hear a single click when the key is turned and then nothing.

[smokuspollutus]

Take it to a mechanic that can properly diagnose and tune a quadrajet. You are killing the battery by cranking it too much and drastically shortening the life of your battery & starter.

[The Tassie Devil(le)]

A good battery should last more than a few attempts to start any engine.

Check all the battery terminals for cleanliness, plus the ground connections at the chassis, and chassis to starter.

Plus, a good Battery Shop will be able to "stress-check" the battery by loading it up.

Bruce.

[Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621]

If the engine is cranking at the normal speed, battery cables and connections are not the issue.

Are you pumping the accelerator while cranking? That is a big no no. 

If the engine is cold, depress and SLOWLY release the pedal twice and crank engine with foot OFF the pedal. If the engine does not fire up after 10 seconds, you may need to repeat this. 

If the engine is hot, the manual recommends depressing the pedal 1/3 of the way (DO NOT PUMP) while cranking.

If you suspect the engine if flooded (which is definitely the case if the smell of gas is noticed) depress the accelerator FULLY and hold down while cranking.

If you follow these procedures, you should have no trouble starting your car.

[V63]

Does the car have EFI? (Optional Fuel injection?)

[bcroe]

Your first problem is battery.  You should be able to crank the engine
A LOT before it runs down.  Likely the battery has lost most of its
capacity, can be checked.  Replace it with the largest capacity that
will fit in the car. 

I don't think its the connections, or it wouldn't crank at all.  But after
checking them, you might note the starter wiring, then crank.  After
a few seconds of that, do a finger test on all the connections.  Any hot
one is costing you energy. 

With good cranking, you can look into the carb.  For 70s EFI pumping
while cranking has no effect; enrichment pulses are inhibited.  But you
can turn on the key and pump it before cranking; my 79 Eldo Olds loves gas. 
good luck,
Bruce Roe

[TJ Hopland]

Eric's process is what I have always used and more or less what the owners manual says.    If that doesn't work you need some carb work.    His note about slowly releasing has not usually been an issue for me but I could see if you had some wear or sticky going on in the carb slowly would increase your chances of the choke and fast idle setting properly.   All that stuff pretty much works on gravity so it doesn't take a lot of wear or gum to make em not work well.    When I do it I don't think I take a little less than a full second on and then off so the whole process maybe is about a second and a half.    Slower for sure won't hurt. 

I am thinking the main issue here is carb related.    Secondary issue with battery/alternator may also be brewing.   The extended cranking due to the carb issues may be draining the battery more than usual and the alternator may be weak so its not always fully recharging charging the battery.  The reason it starts alright sometimes my be that that was a longer trip so more time to charge?  If the carb is worn and our gummy the choke and fast idle may not always be setting or the accelerator pump may not always be working so that could explain things being a little intermittent.   

[Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621]

JC reports the car seems to have no difficulty starting whenever someone else is doing it...so either he is doing something wrong or we have multiple coincidences going on here.

That is not to say there may not be some carb issues going on but things have to be pretty dreadful before the engine will not give the slightest sign of firing up. My guess is the engine getting flooded by whatever he's doing.   

[DeVille68]

Are you pumping the accelerator while cranking? That is a big no no. 

If you suspect the engine if flooded (which is definitely the case if the smell of gas is noticed) depress the accelerator FULLY and hold down while cranking.

If you follow these procedures, you should have no trouble starting your car.

I totally agree.  I always start my car like this and it starts all the time.
The quadrajet has a special tang on the choke mechanism that holds the choke flap open when you depress the accelerator fully. Helping you prevent a flooding situation.

[savemy67]

Hello J.C.,

From your post it looks as if three people other than yourself are able to start the car while you cannot.  This would suggest that what they are doing differs from what you do.  As TJ and Eric suggest, you may have problems with both the carburetor and the charging system (your post implies your car has a carburetor).

With a normally functioning carburetor, when the engine is cold, you should depress the gas pedal once to engage the choke and the car should start, provided the starting/charging/ignition systems are also functioning properly.  Your mechanic should check the functioning of the starting/charging/ignition systems, and then check to see if the operation of the carburetor's choke is working correctly.

Respectfully submitted,
Christopher Winter

[Glen]

The way I start a car with a carburetor is to press the throttle most of the way to the floor, which allows the choke to close which is where it needs to be when starting a cold engine.  I then release the pedal and turn the key. 
Pumping the pedal will flood the engine. 
This assumes the car has a carburetor.  If it is a fuel injected engine, that is a different story. 

[Roger Zimmermann]

With my '80 Olds Cutlass, I had a similar problem with  cold engine. Putting a screwdriver in the carb to open the choke was usually a good help. Those carbs have a device which open a bit the choke valve to avoid an over rich condition (don't remember the name of it). Your carb may have the same problem.