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When did Cadillac stop making cars with the classic 'Cadillac' ride quality?

Started by TJ Hopland, December 30, 2011, 02:49:14 PM

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TJ Hopland

Recently came back from looking at new cars with a friend.   He just got a big promotion at work with a big bump in his expense account and can actually afford a new car in the class of a Caddy.  I cant so I dont even bother looking at the current models.  I will find out in maybe 10-15 years when I can afford one.   The newest Caddy I have personally owned was a 95 Deville.  I only had it for about 6 months.  It had a decent ride (for a transverse FWD) but too many other features that they for some reason left off the model that other cars in the class had at the time, It just did not make it a good fit for me at the time so I traded it in on something else but figured things would be improving and some day I would get a newer one that had everything I wanted.  We rode together on this shopping trip because he was actually thinking it would be possible that he could be driving a new car home, that is how serious he was.  My friend has owned several cars including a few Cads.   The last several years he has often had a lot of rental cars so he as got to experience quite a variety.   One thing we know we dont like is the Euro stiff sports like feel.  If we wanted that we would be looking at Benz or BMW.   Guess what every Cadillac feels like now?  Including the DTS which is apparently supposed to be the 'classic' Caddy....

I love the classic RWD land yacht feel that Cadillac had for so many years.   Even my 80 Eldo is a little stiffer than I would like but when compared to the current cars even that is a boat.   Everything now seems to have pretty stiff fancy suspension which is made more uncomfortable by the standard what 50? series tires?  Why even bother putting air in them if there is no side wall?   They might as well just wrap solid rubber around a 30" wheel.   

Next trip is going to be to go check out Lincoln but I suspect they are going to be similar.   Im really bummed now because when I have nothing to look forward to buying when they get old enough to get in my price range.   

My friend and I cant be the only 2 people that like that old land yacht ride are we?

Another thing we encountered was the Cadillac sales people practically tried to chase us off the lot.  Just because he gets a kick out of riding in it I drove my 80 Diesel Eldo which is in less than perfect condtion.  There was one older sales? guy that sort of smiled when he walked by and said you sure dont see many of those around anymore.  Im a working man so I dont have fancy clothes.  My friend normally wears a suit but is on vacation so he was dressed casual.   No one came up to us when we were walking around the lot but it looked like there were several people keeping a close eye on us.  When we went into the building a person met us and asked us why we were there.  He asked in a way that made us think that he would have rather said 'there is nothing for you here'.   I would have walked out but he really wanted to get a closer look so it took some talking to prove that he was serious and he did end up driving a few models and the sales person was very helpful and knew his product, too bad none of it seemed to be what he was looking for.  I remember getting the same treatment back in 05? when the SRX? came out.   A sales person didnt even seem to want get off his chair to come outside and open one for me to look at.  I even told him that I was not looking to drive one yet just wanted to see how the interior was arranged.  I was so mad I never even gave it a second chance, I ended up buying a loaded Dodge the next day for not a lot less than the base Cad I wanted to look at.    Anyway back to the recent trip, on the same day we also hit an Audi, VW, Subaru, and Buick/Chev dealers.  All of those we were treated like potential customers. 

Open to hear what others think of the recent / current line up or how they have been treated looking at new cars.
StPaul/Mpls, MN USA

73 Eldo convert w/FiTech EFI
80 Eldo Diesel
90 CDV
And other assorted stuff I keep buying for some reason

okccadman

Being in the Limo business, i get to drive lots of Cadillacs, Lincolns and other luxury makes.  The last truly smooth riding car in my mind is the Lincoln Town Car, which just ceased production.  The last Cadillac was my 1996 Fleetwood Brougham.  It is smooth powerful and still gets close to 25 mpg on the road.
Jim Jordan CLC# 5374
Oklahoma City, OK

55 Series 62 Sedan
56 Series 62 Coupe
56 Fleetwood 75 Derham Limo
59 Fleetwood Sixty Special
66 Fleetwood Brougham
66 Superior Hearse/Ambulance
67 Fleetwood Sixty Special
68 Fleetwood Eldorado
76 Coupe de Ville d'Elegance
90 Brougham
92 Fleetwood Coupe
93 Allante
94 Fleetwood Brougham
02 Eldorado Commemorative Edition

TJ Hopland

I suppose the Town Car maybe survived this long because it shared parts with the Marquis and Crown Vic?  And all those models combined made it worth the trouble to keep em in production?

Even the DTS didnt have much space in the back compared to what they used to be.   Cabs now days are a joke.  Even the mini van ones are usually a little tight. With 'Americans' getting bigger it seems that space in the cars is getting smaller. 
StPaul/Mpls, MN USA

73 Eldo convert w/FiTech EFI
80 Eldo Diesel
90 CDV
And other assorted stuff I keep buying for some reason

Dan LeBlanc

I bought a CTS three years ago. I sold it this spring and bought a VW that's how disappointed I was with it. You wouldn't catch me dead in a new Cadillac. The VW so far seems to have better all round quality than the Cadillac and is not all loose and rattly like the Cadillac was.

GM has lost my vote.
Dan LeBlanc
1977 Lincoln Continental Town Car

TJ Hopland

CTS wagon was one that we drove and both came away with the same impression, it didn't feel like a $40,000+ car.  Maybe 30 but we could not see paying 40 for it. The overall finish sort of had a cheap plastic feel to it.  It also did not have what we thought was a Cadillac ride.  Maybe that is the 'sport' part of the wagons?  And the Sedan would be softer?

I did drive an Eldo around 05 before I bought the 95 Deville.  I dont remember the year, it would have been in the 2000 range.  I do remember really liking it but at the time I needed more space.  I was driving a Roadmaster wagon at the time so dropping to a 2 door would have been too big a jump.  That Roadmaster was a great car, one of my favorite daily drivers ever.

When they first went to the letters didnt they have a models like SLS vs STS?  Wasnt that Luxury vs Touring? What was the difference?   Wasnt the touring a little stiffer?   

StPaul/Mpls, MN USA

73 Eldo convert w/FiTech EFI
80 Eldo Diesel
90 CDV
And other assorted stuff I keep buying for some reason

Alan Harris CLC#1513

Edsel Ford was once asked why the company stopped making the K serles senior Lincolns.

His answer was "We didn't stop making them. The customers stopped buying them".


Davidinhartford

I find the ride in my 2007 DTS is very comfy.   Several people I know said they wouldn't buy a DTS because it was too floaty!   

So I guess it is all about what you are comparing it to.

I've rented many many Town Cars over the past three years.   They are just boat like in comparison to my DTS.     I've also rented a few new CTSs.   Fine cars, but just too narrow to fit me and the shorter wheelbase sacrafices the ride in my opinion.     The DTS was just right.   

"Cadillac Kid" Greg Surfas 15364

No big mystery guys,
The "Cadillac ride" resulted from the stability that weight, power, adequate tires, and a long/wide wheel base provides.  The last (standard production) heavy cars were the 76's, and speaking from my personal experience, my 76 Coupe is rock solid and smooth.  When they started paring the cars down in 77 they reduced the weight and size in incremental steps.  At each "downsizing", compromises were made in the handling and ride "envelope" in an attempt to maintain a "luxury" ride.  When they got down to the current size platform, there is very little difference in physical dimensions between just about any vehicle.
Just to remind you that a '66 Cadillac weighed in at about 4800 pounds, while the same year Impala was about 3700. You know the difference in ride, and there is very little difference in the design of the suspension components.
The newer you get, the further you get from the "Cadillac Ride".
Greg Surfas
Cadillac Kid-Greg Surfas
Director Modified Chapter CLC
CLC #15364
66 Coupe deVille (now gone to the UK)
72 Eldo Cpe  (now cruising the sands in Quatar)
73 Coupe deVille
75 Coupe deElegance
76 Coupe deVille
79 Coupe de ville with "Paris" (pick up) option and 472 motor
514 inch motor now in '73-

Mike Josephic CLC #3877

The new "low profile" tires with the narrow sidewalls and 21 inch rims
may look really "cool" in the showroom -- but they make the ride very
harsh.

Like it or not, the tire is part of the overall ride package and this new
variety doesn't help.  There's very little sidewall to flex and cushion
the wheel.

Mike
1955 Cadillac Eldorado
1973 Cadillac Eldorado
1995 Cadillac Seville
2004 Escalade
1997 GMC Suburban 4X4, 454 engine, 3/4 ton
custom built by Santa Fe in Evansville, IN
2011 Buick Lucerne CX
-------------------------------------
CLCMRC Museum Benefactor #38
Past: VP International Affiliates, Museum Board Director, President / Director Pittsburgh Region

The Tassie Devil(le)

Maybe the new Cadillac "Ride" is the new Standard of the World?

But I suppose the next question is "When did Cadillac start making cars with the classic 'Cadillac' ride quality"?

Those very early cars must have been real bone breakers.   Big wheels with "O" Ring Tyres and buggy springs.

Bruce. >:D

'72 Eldorado Convertible (LHD)
'70 Ranchero Squire (RHD)
'74 Chris Craft Gull Wing (SH)
'02 VX Series II Holden Commodore SS Sedan
(Past President Modified Chapter)

Past Cars of significance - to me
1935 Ford 3 Window Coupe
1936 Ford 5 Window Coupe
1937 Chevrolet Sports Coupe
1955 Chevrolet Convertible
1959 Ford Fairlane Ranch Wagon
1960 Cadillac CDV
1972 Cadillac Eldorado Coupe

Dan LeBlanc

Putting ride quality aside and looking at build quality, like I said earlier, the build quality of my VW is far superior to that of my CTS.  The 2.0L turbo engine is much more responsive, the fit and finish, and quality of materials is far superior to that I found in my CTS.

So, the question should be, when did Cadillac stop making quality cars?  I've driven newer DTS's and the like and they're just not stacking up to their import counterparts.

The new commercial I saw not long ago stated, "we don't just build cars, we build Cadillacs."  My response was, "yeah, and?"  They're not what they used to be!!!!
Dan LeBlanc
1977 Lincoln Continental Town Car

"Cadillac Kid" Greg Surfas 15364

Cadillac Kid-Greg Surfas
Director Modified Chapter CLC
CLC #15364
66 Coupe deVille (now gone to the UK)
72 Eldo Cpe  (now cruising the sands in Quatar)
73 Coupe deVille
75 Coupe deElegance
76 Coupe deVille
79 Coupe de ville with "Paris" (pick up) option and 472 motor
514 inch motor now in '73-

Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621

Most Cadillacs ride pretty well. Here's my short list of Cadillacs which I personally found a bit disappointing- to various extents.

Seville '76-'79
Cimarron '82-'88
Brougham '87-'89 (non d'Elegance only)
DeVille '94-'96
Eldorado '92-'97
Seville '92-'97

The most comfortable car seat I've ever sat in- '79-'80 DeVille w/leather.


A Cadillac Motorcar is a Possession for which there is no Acceptable Substitute

Dan LeBlanc

I remember my dad fixing a 76-79 Seville frame that had rotted out when he had his body shop.  Rotted out completely over the rear wheels on the driver's side.
Dan LeBlanc
1977 Lincoln Continental Town Car

Rob Troxel

I have some Volkswagen headlights as well as some BMWs that were stuck the back of my  2011 CTS V wagon. Do you need them?  I have never owned a better faster greater handling car than the CTS V.  Times have changed, I still love my 68 Eldorado, but there are different levels of excitement.  GM is getting back to what it takes to gain market share.

Jason Edge

I have found the 1995 Fleetwood Brougham to be the Best Riding Car of any make, model or year that I have owned and would love to find another 95 or 96 Fleetwood. It was big enough to give you the Cadillac Float, but powerful, agile and handled like a dream. 

I've been into 63's and 64's the last 16 years and have all new suspension on my 64 CDV and it really rides great, but that 95 Fleetwood was out of this world.  At this point I love 'em Big and Powerful and guess that's why an Escalade is my daily driver.
Jason Edge
Lifetime Member
Executive Vice President
CLC 1963/64 Cadillac Chapter Director - www.6364Cadillac.com
CLC Carolina Region Webmaster - www.CRCLC.org
CLC MRC Benefactor
email - jasonedge64@outlook.com
1964 Coupe DeVille - Sierra Gold - http://bit.ly/1WnOQRX
2002 Escalade EXT - Black
2013 Escalade EXT Premium Edition - Xenon Blue
2022 XT5 Luxury Premium - Dark Moon Blue Metallic

INTMD8

I'll throw my opinion in on this. 

I think the demise of the "Cadillac" ride is due to magazine testing/etc.

I for one can appreciate, and enjoy, a classic Cadillac that floats down the road. I know, that for it to be able to ride like that there will be compromises in handling.

Problem is, with the magazine and various other "comparo's" they will take all the latest "luxury" cars and pit them against each other on a road course or similar.

Now, I've driven a lot. I mean a LOT of miles on the street and rarely witnessed anyone approaching the handling limits of their car's on an off-ramp.   Considering that, do I really care about an 07 DTS's time around VIR or the Nurburgring? Really, that's my deciding factor?

All the luxury car manufacturers want to brag about class leading handling because they forgot handling is not the priority in the class they are in.

Greg McDonnell

I have owned many Cadillacs in my lifetime...My '78 CDV D'Elegance was one of THE most comfortable cars I have ever driven.  Wish I  had it back...would like to have another one!  Good looking, plenty of power, quiet, and fun to drive!  I also currently own a '77 Seville with a mere 40k original miles.  Very comfortable car and no rot anywhere-rare color combination and almost fully loaded-turns heads everywhere I take it.  Also own a '98 SLS that is very nicely equipped and currently has 43,xxx original miles on it.  I like the way it handles but it doesn't have that big car feel like my '78 CDV had... My '66 Eldoado rides and handles nicely for a 46 year old convertible...It's fast and has a lot of torque and does have that big car feel and boulevard ride...nice and cushy. Just recently drove a low mileage '05 Lincoln Towncar on a 300 mile round trip.  VERY comfortable, quiet and pleny of power...reminded me of how Cadillacs USED to feel. 

Greg McDonnell
CLC #20841
Greg McDonnell
CLC #20841

Greg Powers

The real Cadillac ride disappeared when Cadillac retired the last of the Broughams and Fleetwood Broughams. The rear wheel drive combined with the weight and power of the cars gave them a smooth luxury ride. As was the fate of all of the automotive industry when they abandonded this ride in pursuit of "road feel". They left "Town and Country" in pursuit of "Road and Track". As has been previously stated as the wheels get larger and the sidewall of the tire shortens, the comfort of the ride is reduced. Perhaps some day a luxury ride will return, but I'm not holding my breath.
G.L. Powers>1954 Series 62 Sedan/1958 Fleetwood 60 Special-sold/1963 Series 62 Convertible-sold/1970 Fleetwood Brougham-sold/1994 Fleetwood Brougham/1971 Sedan Deville-sold/2000 Deville-sold/2001 DTS-sold/1976 Eldorado Convertible-sold/1983 Coupe Deville-sold/1990 Allante-sold/1990 and 1991 Brougham deElegance-sold/1992 Brougham-sold/Always looking!

TJ Hopland

Anyone know what killed the Brougham, Roadmaster, and Caprice?   I presume the sales were alright but that line maybe needed a major update to meet current standards and maybe an update in the manufacturing process to make it a more efficient build?   Those all put together just not enough possible sales or too big of a price jump to make it worth it?
StPaul/Mpls, MN USA

73 Eldo convert w/FiTech EFI
80 Eldo Diesel
90 CDV
And other assorted stuff I keep buying for some reason