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what year did Cadillac go from 6 volt to 12 volt

Started by piperman, January 22, 2018, 07:36:02 PM

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piperman

I have a 1949 would like to convert it from 6 to  12 volt
D John Anderson

bcroe

#1
Quote from: piperman
I have a 1949 would like to convert it from 6 to 12 volt 

Your original system will support the original car functions when
maintained.  A lot less trouble than a conversion.  Some reasons
owners have changed to a 12V neg ground alternator are

New heavier loads (air cond, lights)
Need to operate 12V neg ground equipment (audio)
Increased output at idle (discharge idling at night)
Elimination of mechanical regulator and wiring
Reduced maintenance
Reduce radio interference

good luck, Bruce Roe

Barry M Wheeler #2189

The year was 1953 that they switched to 12 volts.
Barry M. Wheeler #2189


1981 Cadillac Seville
1991 Cadillac Seville

cadillacmike68

Regards,
"Cadillac" Mike

Caddy Wizard

I have had countless 1949 to 1956 Cadillac's.  Obviously, the 1949 to 1952 cars started out as 6v cars.  I have kept all of them 6v, except one (for AC and fuel injection).  If you are going to run air conditioning, you need 12v.  Otherwise, the 6v system can be made to work extremely well in your car.  Making the 6v system work well is a whole lot easier than switching to 12v.  As I said elsewhere on this forum, my two best operating Cadillac's were both 6v (a 1950 sedan and a 1951 sedan).


Actually, the 6v system in 1949 isn't as much of a problem as is the brittle cloth-covered electrical wire in your car.  Whenever possible, replace the wiring sub-assemblies (smaller wiring harnesses) with new ones from Rhode Island Wiring Service.  Their harnesses have the outer cloth sheath, but an inner sheath of polymer for safety.  Great product.
Art Gardner


1955 S60 Fleetwood sedan (now under resto -- has been in paint shop since June 2022!)
1955 S62 Coupe (future show car? 2/3 done)
1958 Eldo Seville (2/3 done)

Dan LeBlanc

I would ask why also.  Perhaps Art is trying to gather information on an issue with his electrical system to offer helpful advice that may be easier to fix than a 12v conversion.
Dan LeBlanc
1977 Lincoln Continental Town Car

EAM 17806

Ev Marabian

1976 Cadillac Coupe DeVille, 1989 Chevrolet Caprice Classic, 1990 Pontiac Bonneville and 1996 Buick Skylark

Caddy Wizard

We don't need to know why an owner wants to do something to his car.  Maybe he needs to do it for a radio that he desperately wants. Maybe for AC.  Maybe for brighter headlights and taillights.  Maybe for perceived improvement in starting.  Really, I don't mind if someone wants to change to 12v.  As the other Art has said, it is his car and the owner can do whatever he wants with it.  And it is not for me to be judgmental about that.

On the other hand, I have lots of experience with making 6v work well and also have experience switching over to 12v.  It really is easier to make 6v work well compared to switching to 12v. 

If one wants to convert to 12v, the process is pretty straight-forward.  Biggest issue is the gauges.  One thing that folks often do that they don't need to have done is to replace the 6v starter with a 12v unit -- don't.  The 6v starter will be just fine with the extra juice.  Yes, a small bit of service life will be cut off, but you can rebuild the starter if and when that happens.

Really, this topic should not be controversial...
Art Gardner


1955 S60 Fleetwood sedan (now under resto -- has been in paint shop since June 2022!)
1955 S62 Coupe (future show car? 2/3 done)
1958 Eldo Seville (2/3 done)

cadillacmike68

Quote from: 49er on January 23, 2018, 04:53:22 PM
Art, i disagree at all. I just asked the man, why he wanted to do it. Could be for some of the reasons you cited and more. He can do like anybody else what ever he WANTS to do, im not questioning that. I only asked why. So far everybody has an answer to WHY the poster wants to do it. All I did was ask the poster , why. What , i mean is wrong with that. As far as I know the OP hasnt answered but every body else has.

But you put multiple ??s and this:

   ???

in your post. 

That's not merely asking. It's more like implying "why would you desecrate the car like that?"

I'm kind of that way when it comes to replacing the P&C ignition with an electronic one. Bit in the case of P&C replacement if you have a properly maintained ignition your car will start in 1/10 of a second, thus making the electronic "upgrade" completely unneeded. A 6 to 12V change on the other hand has many valid reasons for the change, along with a few unneeded reasons.

Regards,
"Cadillac" Mike

Brett S

Quote from: Barry M Wheeler #2189 on January 22, 2018, 09:17:25 PM
The year was 1953 that they switched to 12 volts.

Bringing this thread back..... are ALL 1953 Cadillac's 12v? I just picked up a '53 series 62 that's been in a barn for a very long time, and I'm trying to figure out if it's 6v or 12v....
Thanks in advance
Brett Samanns

Maynard Krebs

#10
1.  I was wondering the same thing as Brett was:  were ALL 1953s twelve-volts?

2.  An alternative to changing a six-volt car to a twelve-volt one is using an 8-volt golf cart battery... assuming one can be had that's big enough capacity.   The only change needed was to adjust the voltage regulator.   

3.  There at least used to be a supplier of a twelve-volt battery with a solenoid or relay on the top.   This design allowed staring on twelve volts and then running on six volts.   When I was in the ready-mixed concrete business, we had mixers with such a system:  the wiring allowed for 24-volt starting and then 12 volts for running those big Diesels.

But, frankly, I'm with Art Gardner on this question... even though I don't have personal experience with this situation.

Bob Hoffmann CLC#96

1968 Eldorado slick top ,white/red interior
2015 Holden Ute HSV Maloo red/black interior.
             
Too much fun is more than you can have.

Jay Friedman

Quote from: Maynard Krebs on September 23, 2019, 09:50:49 PM
1.  I was wondering the same thing as Brett was:  were ALL 1953s twelve-volts?

2.  An alternative to changing a six-volt car to a twelve-volt one is using an 8-volt golf cart battery... assuming one can be had that's big enough capacity.   The only change needed was to adjust the voltage regulator.   

3.  There at least used to be a supplier of a twelve-volt battery with a solenoid or relay on the top.   This design allowed staring on twelve volts and then running on six volts.   When I was in the ready-mixed concrete business, we had mixers with such a system:  the wiring allowed for 24-volt starting and then 12 volts for running those big Diesels.

But, frankly, I'm with Art Gardner on this question... even though I don't have personal experience with this situation.

1. As Bob Hoffman said, all '53s were 12 volts, no exceptions;

2. Years ago I switched a daily driven '51 Oldsmobile from 6 to 8 volts using a battery from Antique Battery Co.  Everything worked well with one exception: the sealed beam headlight bulbs.  They would only last a few months before they'd burn out.  I installed better battery cables, went back to 6v and all problems were solved;

3.  Some years later, I installed on my '49 Cadillac a combination 6/12 volt battery with an Orpin Series-Parallel switch on top from the Antique Battery Co.  It worked well too, but also with one exception: the voltage regulator.  It would only last a few months before burning out.  I never learned the cause, but I'm guessing somehow current from the 12v starting circuit leaked into the regulator which eventually ate up the windings.  Again, upgraded my battery cable and went back to 6v only.
1949 Cadillac 6107 Club Coupe
1932 Ford V8 Phaeton (restored, not a rod).  Sold
Decatur, Georgia
CLC # 3210, since 1984
"If it won't work, get a bigger hammer."

Oliver Betker

I still drive my 6V-System, because I want to keep her as far as possible original. But I still not solved the start problems with 6V.
The starter works outside the car with 6V very weak, but inside the car it is too weak to turn the enguine.
The solenoid don't close the big circuit properly. It seems the pull coil has not enough force.
I got a second 6V Starter and cleaned it, checked it and the same problem again.
Both works fine with 12V, but I can't bring them to work with the 6V.
So I insert a 12V Starter circuit in the car, but its not my taste.
Are there any advices or expiriences with similar topics?
Batterycable are nice, Battery new and strong. I prosume the solenoid has  a fault. How can I check it, it is cast in. Are there any resistance test or other methods to check the coil?

I don`t want to convert the whole car to 12V to make it weekly driveable.
1946 Cadillac Series 61 Coupe
1958 Chevrolet Bel Air 4door Sedan
1958 Wartburg 311 4door Sedan 900
1961 Wartburg 311 4door Sedan 1000
1963 Trabant 500 2door Sedan
1989 Trabant 601 2door Sedan
1966 Bulldozer T 100 MGP
1968 Bulldozer T 100 MGP
1998 Nissan Pickup Navara
2015 Ford Ranger Pickup
1978 MZ T 250/1
1992 Harley Davidson Fat boy

Jay Friedman

Oliver, It may be your starter and the second starter are not grounded properly.  Make sure there is no paint on the surface of the motor the starter bolts to as well as on the front surface of the starter.  Make sure also, the small ground strap from the back of the motor to the firewall (dash) is clean with no paint and that the surfaces it attaches to are also clean.  I don't know 1946 Cadillacs very well, but I think there is a ground strap on one or both of the motor mounts, so make sure it is clean too.   If the positive battery cable is nice as you wrote, but is for a 12 volt car and too thin it will not carry sufficient amperes for a 6 volt starter.  Make sure it is thick 0/0 or 2/0 gauge. 

I hope this helps.
1949 Cadillac 6107 Club Coupe
1932 Ford V8 Phaeton (restored, not a rod).  Sold
Decatur, Georgia
CLC # 3210, since 1984
"If it won't work, get a bigger hammer."

busboys

I own a few Cadillacs. My 1951 is 6 volt. It works flawless, every time, cold or hot. What makes it work well? A good charging system, proper sized cables, good battery, a starter that is in good condition, a nice clean ground connection  :)and a good engine. Pretty simple formula. What one person thinks is a good starter may not be. Just because a starter spins on the bench doesn't mean it is a good one. I have a couple 70 caddys. My Fleetwood 75 has a very slow starter when hot. Does it need a proper rebuild or should I convert the car to 24 volt? :)

jdemerson

Quote from: Jay Friedman on September 24, 2019, 06:08:14 AM
Oliver, It may be your starter and the second starter are not grounded properly.  Make sure there is no paint on the surface of the motor the starter bolts too as well as on the front surface of the starter.  Make sure also, the small ground strap from the back of the motor to the firewall (dash) is clean with no paint and that the surfaces it attaches to are also clean.  I don't know 1946 Cadillacs very well, but I think there is a ground strap on one or both of the motor mounts, so make sure it is clean too.   If the positive battery cable is nice as you wrote, but is for a 12 volt car and too thin it will not carry sufficient amperes for a 6 volt starter.  Make sure it is thick 0/0 or 2/0 gauge. 

I hope this helps.

As Jay has advised (here and over the years) the most important issues are the ground cable and clean connections. My 6-volt system works fine every time, even with a nine-year-old battery (not a misprint!). My air conditioner is controlled by small cranks near the front edge of the front doors, so it doesn't require a 12-volt system. I would only convert (and have to confront a lot of little issues like the gauges) if I NEEDED to have 12 volts -- for a big air conditioner, major lighting upgrade, new sound system, whatever. But for me, Jay's advise years ago has served me very well. See also Art Gardner's suggestions based on first-hand experience. This forum has helped me a LOT, and where I can I try to return the favor...

Good luck!

John Emerson
1952 Cadillac Sedan 6219X
John Emerson
Middlebury, Vermont
CLC member #26790
1952 Series 6219X
http://bit.ly/21AGnvn

Jim Miller

My 1941 and my 1949 are both 6 volt and operate fine. Once a year I check my grounds that they are tight and clean. I did convert the generator on my 1941 to a GenerNator. Was expensive, but provides consistent power at night. But it's still 6 volt, positive ground. Of course, one can do whatever they wish with their car, but I have learned a great deal and good advice on this forum. Also saved me from some expensive mistakes.
Jim Miller

1941 6219
1949 6237X
1970 CDV
2021 XT6
Past:
1991 SDV
1999 DeElegence
2006 DTS
2013 XTS
2016 SRX

savemy67

Quote from: Brett S on September 23, 2019, 08:30:53 PM
... and I'm trying to figure out if it's 6v or 12v....

Hello Brett,

If you can see the top of the battery in your car, you can tell if it is a 6 or 12 volt battery by the number of caps that allow the cells to be refilled (if it is a vintage style battery).  A typical wet cell battery produces about 2.2 volts per cell, so 3 caps means 3 cells, which means 6.6 volts, aka a 6 volt battery.  6 caps means 6 cells, which means  13.2 volts, aka a 12 volt battery.

If your car has a 6 volt battery, as indicated by 3 caps, you probably don't have a '53, as 12 volts is the correct system for '53.

Respectfully submitted,

Christopher Winter

Christopher Winter
1967 Sedan DeVille hardtop