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Cadillac & LaSalle Club Forums => General Discussion => Topic started by: dulcidog on November 26, 2012, 09:18:41 PM

Title: Allante collectibility??
Post by: dulcidog on November 26, 2012, 09:18:41 PM
Wanted to get some thoughts,These seem to be bottoming out anyone like them? Will they be worth anything? Just looking for opinions
Thanks-Bill L
Title: Re: Allante collectibility??
Post by: Guidematic on November 27, 2012, 09:35:47 AM

No doubt they will. They posess all the attributes that make any car a collectible.

Mike
Title: Re: Allante collectibility??
Post by: D.Yaros on November 27, 2012, 10:49:09 AM
Owning a '92, needless to say, I like 'em!

Collectible?  Yes, most definitely.  However, just as definite, not in my lifetime (I am age 65)!

When one looks at what they sell for today, compared to original purchase price, one wants to cry!
Title: Re: Allante collectibility??
Post by: TJ Hopland on November 27, 2012, 12:59:47 PM
I have sort of looked at them too.   I have seen what appeared to be very nice clean examples for sale not much over typical clean used car prices.   If you have the space and money now may be a good time to buy. 
Title: Re: Allante collectibility??
Post by: okccadman on November 27, 2012, 01:21:24 PM
I think they have just about bottomed out in price.  Owning a 93, they are fun cars and still have a great style to them.  As always, look for the best untampered with examples.
Title: Re: Allante collectibility??
Post by: Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621 on November 27, 2012, 03:19:04 PM
Quote from: dulcidog on November 26, 2012, 09:18:41 PM
Wanted to get some thoughts,These seem to be bottoming out anyone like them? Will they be worth anything? Just looking for opinions
Thanks-Bill L

Have Allantes bottomed out in value? Possibly.

Will they be worth anything? Well, they're worth something right now. If you're asking whether the Allante with ever develop a strong enough following resulting in significant appreciation over the next couple of decades, that's another story. Personally, I don't see this happening in that time frame.

Bottom line is this: By all means buy yourself an Allante if you feel it's worth it to you because you are going to like and enjoy the car, which is all that matters in the final analysis. In making your selection, I'd strongly recommend you limit your search to the 1992 model and also that you buy the finest, low mileage, pristine example you can find. There are still many Allantes around in relatively good condition but only those in top-tier condition stand the best chance of future appreciation- if and when the day comes.   
Title: Re: Allante collectibility??
Post by: Guidematic on November 27, 2012, 03:30:53 PM

Allantes were never really regarded and an inexpensive car to operate. Even when new. And as such I agree with the '92 models. While the '93's with the Northstar engine are veritable hot rods, I am not convinced these early examples of the Northstar are good to own if you plan on driving the car regularly. They are a nightmare to repair, and they have certain tendencies like high oil consumption ( which was an issue for a long time), and oil leaks.

The 4.5 was a good solid dependible engine and relatively easy to work on, plus they had the lovely intake system I can stare at for hours.

I do have a couple of friends with Allantes and they love their cars, and really have had very little trouble with them, one uses his daily.

Mike
Title: Re: Allante collectibility??
Post by: TJ Hopland on November 27, 2012, 07:21:20 PM
Wasn't there an engine that it never got?   Was it skipped the 4.9?   It held the 4.5 till it got the Northstar?   They just never bothered to make a special version of the 4.9 because the Northstar was in the works?    Those cars had a special intake and multiport even back in the 4100 days didnt they?

What was the deal with the brakes?   Wasnt there something extra strange about the earlier ones?
Title: Re: Allante collectibility??
Post by: Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621 on November 27, 2012, 07:34:19 PM
Allante Engines.

1987-1988    HT 4100

1989-1992     4.5 Liter

1993              4.6 Liter DOHC (Northstar)
Title: Re: Allante collectibility??
Post by: TJ Hopland on November 27, 2012, 07:37:57 PM
The rest of the cars got the 4.9 in 91?
Title: Re: Allante collectibility??
Post by: The Tassie Devil(le) on November 27, 2012, 07:43:06 PM
If the 1988 DeVilles had the 4.5, why would the Allante's have still got the 4100?

Bruce. >:D
Title: Re: Allante collectibility??
Post by: Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621 on November 27, 2012, 07:46:32 PM
Quote from: The Tassie Devil(le) on November 27, 2012, 07:43:06 PM
If the 1988 DeVilles had the 4.5, why would the Allante's have still got the 4100?

Bruce. >:D

Because they're idiots.  :o

**Or at least most of GM was run by them in the '80s.   >:(
Title: Re: Allante collectibility??
Post by: Davidinhartford on November 27, 2012, 08:25:26 PM
1987 Cadillac Allante Commercial

http://youtu.be/CqUOUubitQE (http://youtu.be/CqUOUubitQE)

1989 Allante road test.

http://youtu.be/RIJJZIGTsDM  (http://youtu.be/RIJJZIGTsDM)
Title: Re: Allante collectibility??
Post by: 76eldo on November 27, 2012, 08:44:48 PM
I understand the thinking on the 92, but the Bosch brake system's potential for failure is a big  negative for me.  The 93's have a lot more horsepower, more comfortable seats, totally different suspension, and standard Eldorado brake, suspension, and radio components.

I have owned a 91, 1 92, and a super low mileage 93 and the 93 was by far the best one I had.  It's all subjective and opinion, but a low mileage 93 is the best bet and if you are thinking about potential to appreciate in value, the 93 has it.

That being said, the leading Allante experts, Tom, Dick, and Johnny all seem to favor the phase II cars (90.5, 91, and 92) for their personal rides, and they are the experts.

Right now, values are down, and there are a LOT of Allante's getting parted out which will make the survivors all worth a lot of money someday.  After all, it's a Cadillac, it's got an Italian built body, it's a two seater, and a convertible.

Name ANY car that is a two seater convertible, especially built by a high end carmaker that isn't worth money...

Corvette's, early T-Birds, Nash Healy, Kaiser Darrin, stuff like that.  Once shunned and low priced, now extremely valuable.

Allante's, long-term, are smart investments, in my opinion.

Brian
Title: Re: Allante collectibility??
Post by: Bill Hedge CLC 14424 on November 27, 2012, 09:20:11 PM
I suspect that Brian is right on this issue.  I have long thought these were beautiful cars.  After I purchased my 59, the Allante moved to the top of my "wish list".   I have purchased several cars since then, and, in spite of coming close, I never could seem to pull the trigger on the purchase of an Allante.  I did a lot of  reading and research, and for me, their reputations for poor reliability (whether right or not) and difficulty in obtaining certain parts always seemed to stop me from making a purchase.
Title: Re: Allante collectibility??
Post by: 76eldo on November 27, 2012, 10:09:13 PM
I neglected to mention that I no longer own an Allante, except for two 87's I am parting out.

I bought a 12,000 mile 93 a few years ago from someone on the board and I loved the car.  I flew out to Columbus Ohio and drove it back.  It was Pearl Red, Tan interior, chrome wheels, and purchased new by a Cadillac collector/enthusiast.

I never thought I would sell it, but when the 60 Convertible that I now own became available due to the death of a fellow Valley Forge region member, I was able to buy the car, but the Allante had to go because I needed the funds.

I sold the car 3 years ago for $18,000 and held it in my garage for a couple of months until the buyer in Northern California could line up transport.  It was top money for a mint 93 in a desirable color with a very hard to find hardtop (93 only).  I had no problem selling the car because it was so nice, so if you are thinking about buying an Allante, they are nice in any year or color, but buy the best one you can find so you don't have to dump tons of money into it.

Brian

Title: Re: Allante collectibility??
Post by: Alan Harris CLC#1513 on November 27, 2012, 11:54:36 PM
I owned a 1987 back in the early nineties. It was a lovely car except if you actually tried to use it.

In that case, it was an execrable piece of crap with barely enough reliability to make it to the next stoplight.
Title: Re: Allante collectibility??
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on November 28, 2012, 02:48:59 AM
To each his own; I don't like Allants. In my opinion, the stupid roof mechanism killed the car. Not all Cadillacs are collectible; I doubt that the Allante will be much appreciate in 20 or 30 years. It was a commercial flop; this fact has an impact about collectibility.
Title: Re: Allante collectibility??
Post by: Series75 on November 28, 2012, 06:52:24 AM
As a 1993 owner I have to agree with Brian, if you want to play with an Allante for a while and then shift it to a new owner the 93 has the widest buyer audience.  It's also the typical GM best of breed in its last year of production.  The 1992 lower production formula for collectivety puzzles me, the brake system is a big worry and I'm not sure people are lining up to buy 1942 model Cadillacs because of thier low production numbers.
By the way the Top mechanisim is a real loser.  It does keep my wife and kids out of the car though as they would never think of attempting to tackle it's stupid design.   Tom CLC#6866
Title: Re: Allante collectibility??
Post by: TJ Hopland on November 28, 2012, 09:09:11 AM
They came up with something more unique than the scissors top?
Title: Re: Allante collectibility??
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on November 28, 2012, 09:17:54 AM
Yes. It was mainly a manual top with a lever on the side to unlock it and an electric catch the close the rear, when you were lucky. Later, the front was also "electrified" but the whole thing was still a stupid construction. At the same time, Camaros and Firebirds had an motorized top.
Title: Re: Allante collectibility??
Post by: Guidematic on November 28, 2012, 10:25:45 AM

The convertible top really was a problem with these cars. They changed it almost every year as well, making specific parts even harder to find these days. In particular the seals were prone to leaking on the earlier models. That was an ongoing problem, they always seemed to be in the shop for waterleaks.

As far as the car being a bit of a commercial flop, that does not affect collectibility one bit. As a matter of fact, it can enhance it, particularly if the car becomes collectible for other reasons. Certainly 1969 Chevy II's with the 4-cylinder engine are not collectible because they made but a handful of them.

As I said earlier, the Allante possesses all the elements that will make it a collectible. But it still remains anyone's guess as to when values take off and to what heights they will go to.

Mike
Title: Re: Allante collectibility??
Post by: Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621 on November 28, 2012, 10:39:57 AM
Quote from: 76eldo on November 27, 2012, 08:44:48 PM



Name ANY car that is a two seater convertible, especially built by a high end carmaker that isn't worth money...

Allante's, long-term, are smart investments, in my opinion.



I don't want this to get into a debate about the virtues/disadvantages, collectibility/non-collectibility of Allante'. However here are a few of my own thoughts and points regarding future long-range Allante' collectibility.

Everything is worth some money. However, if you'd like an example of a two-seater, built by a luxury car manufacturer that has not fared well as a collector car for appreciation, I submit the 1972-1989 Mercedes SL series. For many years long after production ceased, this model enjoyed tremendous value retention or appreciation however, their marketplace performance had been rather lackluster over the last decade or more. I personally know a half dozen people who bought these things who lost their shirt on them, to say nothing of the exhorbitant maintenence costs ownership entailed.

Secondly, the Allante' was never particularly successful, much less lusted-after when new. Resale/trade-in value was so dreadful that GM took the unprecedented step of subsidizing trade-in values by kicking in an extra $10,000 to GM dealers trading in an Allante' just to prop up Allantes' image. Compared with the competition of the day, there were a host of cars that a serious car enthusiast would've far rather had at Allante's price. BMW M Series and offerings from Porsche and Mercedes come to mind. GM had completely missed the target. 

Thirdly, Allante' styling had always been consider bland, "a high-dollar car that looks as though it had been designed by a committee..." were the words of more than one critic. Personally I always thought the car looked like a Celebrity when viewed directly from the front. Not exactly a comparison one spending mega-bucks on a supercar likes to be made.

Fourth, the Allante' is FWD. This is a major problem as serious high performance cars are never designed in that configuration for a multitude of reasons. FWD is widely regarded as a compromise design among automotive experts and this further hampered Allante's image as a viable competitor in the high-end market while further underscoring the philosophy behind the entire machine- and that was one of engineering compromise. Furthermore, FWD linked the Allante' with far more pedestrian offerings. Again, a major detriment to Allante's image as a prestige machine. 

Sixth, many Allantes had been collected an mothballed as new cars, ala 1976 Eldorado convertible. Therefore, there's no shortage of quality examples to satisfy marketplace demand. This is not going to be helpful to long term appreciation. This is almost never the case with cars that have become highly desirable and sought-after.

Finally, consider the 59-60 Eldorado Brougham. Here's a car that had been built in truly limited quantity, without any thought of being put away since new without being driven. It was a far more expensive car than the Allante' in inflation-adjusted dollars and yet it's not a particularly valuable car compared to the far more common (by a factor of 4x) of the 57-58. The 57-58 Eldo Brougham was distinctive; the 59-60 was not. Clearly, distinction plays a major role in future collectibility, and the Allante is hardly distinctive. While many foreign car offerings arguably lack distinction themselves, they did excel in terms of performance.

Yes, the Allante is a roadster, however that in itself is not enough to compensate for the areas in which it lacks, vis-a-vis its contempories. Had the Allante' been built in 1965, just as it is, it would be a completely different story. One of the primary factors of long range collectibility/desirability is derived from how a car stacked up against the competition of the day. As one analyst said it, "What new car of its time would a young man buy if money were no object?" I suspect very few young men would have chosen an Allante' in 1987-1993.

That said, none of this is meant in any way to denigrate Allante', nor cause offence to any Alllante' owner nor any of its partisans and it undoubtedly has some fine attributes. It is simply to put into perspective some of the questions regarding potential long-term Allante collectibility, within the context of historical criteria in regards to long-term desirability- from one market observer of many years.

What the future will hold for Allante' is anybody's guess but based on the above, I just don't see it happening for many decades, if at all.

One man's opinion. 

Title: Re: Allante collectibility??
Post by: Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621 on November 28, 2012, 11:01:29 AM
One more thing I'd like to add is a short list of Cadillacs that I feel have not yet reached investment maturity potential:

1967 Eldorado

1980 Seville

1977-1980 Cadillac LeCabriolet (H & E Conversion)
Title: Re: Allante collectibility??
Post by: Guidematic on November 28, 2012, 11:28:26 AM

Logic does not always apply to the collector car market. An example of this is the 55-57 Chevrolet. They were pounded out like cultured bacteria (4.5 million over 3 years), they aren't particularly interesting in mechanical make-up. and they are not regarded as outstanding designs. They didn't exhibit exceptional, or even for the time, average quality. Yet they continue to demand big dollars.

Another would be the '65 Mustang. Thay made over 700,000 of them, they have very pedestrian mechanicals and aside from being "sporty" they are not particularly good designs.

The Allante is low production, high end, built by relatively exotic body builder. It has aesthetics that are quite tasteful and understated. However it may languish in the collector market for some time. But it has the potential. That is entirely dependent on the market and how it is perceived. No one can accurately predict it.

Time will tell.

Mike
Title: Re: Allante collectibility??
Post by: Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621 on November 28, 2012, 11:41:48 AM
Tri 5 Chevys and Mustangs were hot when they were new. The vast majority were pounded, used and discarded leaving a relatively small population to satisfy millions who remember them fondly. Completely different dynamic than with Allante having no bearing whatsoever on the cars' mechanical merit. And the cars were decisive commercial successes in their day. The Chevys and to a lesser extent, Mustangs were never intended as high end cars for consumption by a few affluent customers, only to be dreamed of by the rest.

The main reason Allante and 59-60 Eldo Brougham was subcontracted out to Pininfarina was to reduce production costs.

I respectfully disagree, there most decidedly is some logic to future collectibility just as there is to any investment.

As you say, time will tell....
Title: Re: Allante collectibility??
Post by: Guidematic on November 28, 2012, 12:16:41 PM

Not being of car buying age when the Chevies were built, I can't comment from an first hand obverver's view. However I have spent much time thinking about this very matter.

Essentially it's the same as what made the '32 Fords so hot, and even the Hondas of today. When they were new, they weren't particularly sigificant. Except that the '55 was such a drastic departure from the '54 and created a completely new image for the brand. However compared to their contemporaries, they weren't particularly interesting.

As they became used cars, they were cheap, readily available and easily modified. That crated a real following for them. Yes, they were pounded and used up in many cases, used up as everyday transportation, beat to death as race cars and such. However, there was such a huge pool of these cars that it took a very long time before you could even begin to consider them as hard to find.

I agree Mustangs were the hot ticket when they were new. They were cheap, looked quite sporty and easily modified. They remained the canvas for teenagers and later adults for many years to come. But mechanically they were merely Falcons.

Mass appeal certainly is a factor in a car becoming a high priced collectible. As it is, not a lot of people even know the Eldorado Brougham even exists, let alone the '59-'60 version.

But look at the Duesenberg J. Thare were a few more than 500 examples of these cars built. They can command millions. That may be in part because the cars are so well known by the public, which of coarse makes them even more desireable.

Perhaps the Allante may never get to any real values. It may peak at a point where it is still affordable by folk with smaller bank accounts.

In 1965, who would have ever thought that any 1959 Cadillac would have been worth anything?

Mike
Title: Re: Allante collectibility??
Post by: Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621 on November 28, 2012, 12:31:43 PM
Quote from: Guidematic on November 28, 2012, 12:16:41 PM


Mass appeal certainly is a factor in a car becoming a high priced collectible. As it is, not a lot of people even know the Eldorado Brougham even exists, let alone the '59-'60 version.


In 1965, who would have ever thought that any 1959 Cadillac would have been worth anything?

Mike

How many people even know about the Allante' today let alone 20-30 years from now? I have a few friends in their 30's who never even heard of it. In all honesty, it's very difficult to imagine many 20-30 somethings of today just having to get an Allante' decades from now. Some perhaps, but very few would be my guess.

A Dusenberg represented the outer limits of technological & styling limitations of its day. A zero compromise machine, bumper to bumper. The car was a legend from the second it was built. No matter who you were, what walk of life you came from, everybody knew what a Dusenberg was and what it represented. It's even the origin of the the expression, "It's a Dusey..."  An 18-25 year old would be turning handstands for one in 1930. 

As far as the '59 in 1965- answer to that is: My father! lol! He always said that was going to a hot car one day. (Gotta give the old man his due- he's always a knack for picking winners) He-he. :)
Title: Re: Allante collectibility??
Post by: Guidematic on November 28, 2012, 01:14:43 PM

Right. How many will know that the Allante even existed. But if there is some spark in the public eye on these cars that may bring the car out again, people may remember. There are a lot of forgotten cars out there that get rediscovered.

The Duesenberg was perhaps the pinnacle of the classic era. They were fast, every one carried custom coachwork, and they were stunning. There were others too that are much more scarce, more technically intriquing. An example would be the Mrmon V-16, and maybe even some examples of the Cadillac Series 452.

Indeed it would be nice to have reliable foresight to call future collectibles, particularly those that go to the top of the heap. If I could do that, I'd be a rich man.

Mike
Title: Re: Allante collectibility??
Post by: TJ Hopland on November 28, 2012, 01:52:06 PM
How about the Buick Reatta?   

That was the same period and similar in many ways, not actually physically but as to what it was meant to be and where it fit in the lineup.
Title: Re: Allante collectibility??
Post by: Guidematic on November 28, 2012, 01:57:24 PM

The Reatta was an interesting car. Certainly not on the same level as the Allante. But interesting nonetheless. And I think it fringes on one of those forgotten cars today.

Mike
Title: Re: Allante collectibility??
Post by: Walter Youshock on November 28, 2012, 02:51:31 PM
The Allante' was a neat car when new.  My college roommates liked them and I still preferred the Brougham, but the Allante' was on my list as well.  For as different as they were then, I prefer the XLR today.
Title: Re: Allante collectibility??
Post by: Guidematic on November 28, 2012, 02:57:57 PM

Yeah, they were pretty cool then. We looked at them from a differant perspective from what we see them today. They were quite advanced in the electronics dept if nothing else. They were the first cars to use multiplexing, something that is very commonplace today.

Mike
Title: Re: Allante collectibility??
Post by: D.Yaros on November 29, 2012, 09:59:12 PM
Is the "gas guzzler" tax, applied to purchases of the Allante still in effect today?

Yes the Allante was quite advanced in terms of electronics.  So advanced that there was not room on the instrument panel for separate right & left turn signal indicators on the dashboard!
Title: Re: Allante collectibility??
Post by: Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621 on November 30, 2012, 09:35:49 AM
Gas guzzler taxes only apply when a vehicle is sold new in the US. I doubt it would've applied to Allante' in any case. The tax did apply to the Brougham/Fleetwoods in the '90s I believe.
Title: Re: Allante collectibility??
Post by: 76eldo on November 30, 2012, 11:31:28 AM
There was a gas guzzler tax on 93's when new of $1700.00.

See pic below.  it's the window sticker from my 93.

Brian
Title: Re: Allante collectibility??
Post by: Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621 on November 30, 2012, 11:55:17 AM
No gas guzzler tax on this 1994 STS (with Northstar). Go figure... ???

http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/community-lounge-introductions-general-discussion/194236-post-your-original-window-sticker.html
Title: Re: Allante collectibility??
Post by: 76eldo on November 30, 2012, 12:58:23 PM
It may have had to also do with the price of the car.
Title: Re: Allante collectibility??
Post by: Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621 on November 30, 2012, 01:18:37 PM
That would be the luxury tax which is a seperate bill. At any rate, a Brougham cost considerably less than Allante' which was assessed the guzzler tax in the '90s. My guess is that the 1993's Allante's MPG rating dipped just below the threshold of what the government deemed a "guzzler". Possible performance enhancing mechanicals exclusive to the model? The '93 Allante' might be the only Northstar car to have been so penalized.

By way of interest, all trucks were exempt from the gas guzzler tax. Large SUVs, (ie: Suburban, Tahoe, Expedition etc) were also classified as "trucks" exempting them from the "guzzler" tax as well.
Title: Re: Allante collectibility??
Post by: D.Yaros on December 01, 2012, 10:44:02 AM
Quote from: ericdev on November 30, 2012, 09:35:49 AM
Gas guzzler taxes only apply when a vehicle is sold new in the US. I doubt it would've applied to Allante' in any case. The tax did apply to the Brougham/Fleetwoods in the '90s I believe.
It certainly did apply to Allantes sold new.
Title: Re: Allante collectibility??
Post by: David King (kz78hy) on December 02, 2012, 05:10:21 PM
Just a little fact on the Allante that surprised me when after our local CLC meeting happened a few months ago.  Being in Detroit, a lot of local members were very involved when some of these cars were in production.

The Allante is the 1st GM car with computer controlled components, meaning a LAN based system to operate everything.  So the electronics were a completely different than anything before and the 1st attempt at how the cars of today operate.  There is a specialist who works on these cars and won't touch it if the harness has been cut or altered.

I owned a '88 that I bought in '90.  Great car for ride and handling, but underpowered.  Lost my job and had to dump the car at a loss.

David
Title: Re: Allante collectibility??
Post by: Guidematic on December 02, 2012, 07:49:09 PM

Yes, like I said the first car that employed multiplexing. Essentially a bunch of computors that talk to one another over a LAN, or as it's called in the truck and bus world these days, the J-1939. One module, an input will tell another, an output, to turn on a device. It sounds complex, but it greatly simplifies wiring.

It's de rigeur amoung all vehicles these days.

Mike
Title: Re: Allante collectibility??
Post by: waterzap on December 03, 2012, 02:21:17 PM
Whats the deal with the brakes on these cars? For some reason they can be very expensive to fix?
Title: Re: Allante collectibility??
Post by: 76eldo on December 03, 2012, 09:05:36 PM
The 87-92 models used the Bosch III braking system.  It will stop on a dime and give you 9 cents change, but it consists of a master cylinder, an electric pump and some kind of a pressure reserve cylinder.  It's a complicated system and not a lot of mechanics understand it.  Dealers used to charge about $3000.00 to rebuild the entire system and many of them went bad.  it's recommended to flush the fluid every other year.  No one ever did this when the cars were fairly new, so many of the systems failed.

Allante Source in FL has all of the tech support and parts available to keep these going.

Brian
Title: Re: Allante collectibility??
Post by: Guidematic on December 04, 2012, 10:00:48 AM

It is a complex and expensive system. We called it the Teves system. There was no self diagnostic ability like in the later systems either, so diagnosing it could be an issue.

The main issue with them was the valve body would develop an internal leak causing a pressure loss. This would cause the pressure pump to run almost continuously causing it to burn out. Than bothe the valve body and the Powermaster unit would have to be replaced at great cost. This was an integral system, not like the later remote systems, so when the system went down, you had to repair it or you had very little braking ability.

And yes, it could cost $3,000 to properly repair. But sometimes you could get lucky and it would only be the accumulator or the power relay.

Another problem was the reluctor wheel on one of the front half shafts could split due to corrosion build up between the ring and the CV joint. This would literally cause the system to go into convulsions as soon as you touched the brake.

Mike
Title: Re: Allante collectibility??
Post by: Caddyjack on December 07, 2012, 06:03:35 PM
Quote from: D.Yaros on November 29, 2012, 09:59:12 PM


the Allante was quite advanced in terms of electronics.  So advanced that there was not room on the instrument panel for separate right & left turn signal indicators on the dashboard!
Actually, that's a Pininfarina thing. There's room for the separate signal indicators, but like the Alfa Romeo, they just indicate both at the same time when flashing. For whatever reason, the Italian half of this thought this was cool.

I have a pair of 'em...a black '91 and a white '92. They're BIG fun, and really do get a lot of looks and questions whenever I drive them. Yup, the top is a pain to some people. Takes me 20 seconds to raise or lower it. Once you know how to use it, it's easy, and folds into such a small space, the trunk in these things is HUGE.
Title: Re: Allante collectibility??
Post by: Greg Powers on December 08, 2012, 08:38:21 AM
I think that anything is collectible. Look at the people who collect Gremlins, Pacers, Pintos, and Vegas. It will never be a highly sought after Cadillac due to the many flaws that the car had from new. It's over the top electrical complexity and vehicle specifiic parts make it a very expensive Cadillac to repair. It also takes a mechanic trained by GM on the vehicle to make sure that the integrity of the systems remains intact. I probably paid for mine twice between the purchase price and expesive repairs (Bosch II brake system repairs with mjor components, top pull down mechanism, sound system failures, Speed Sensitive Strut system and several other less significant failures. Like with any Cadillac, Buy what you want and enjoy, that will bring you the greatest long term satisfaction. - Greg
Title: Re: Allante collectibility??
Post by: D.Yaros on December 08, 2012, 05:16:29 PM
There is something totally incongruous about any Cadillac having a manually operated top?  I say this as an Allante owner.  Yes, once one gets the hang of it, it is not that hard to put up/down, but still, it is a Cadillac.
Title: Re: Allante collectibility??
Post by: 76eldo on December 08, 2012, 05:28:55 PM
Two seat high end luxury cars have a real market, rich guys and their trophy wives.

As soon as the first trophy wife tried to lower the top on her Allante and broke a nail, it's all over.  Off the the Mercedes dealer to buy a one-button top lowering SL.

The tops on the 87-88's were horrible.  The next generation was marginally better.  90.5 through 93 was still manual with the silly  pulldowns that either didn't line up, stripped the gears, or half latched and then the top blows open at 60 mph.

If they were going to stick with a manual top, they should have copied the Corvette.

Title: Re: Allante collectibility??
Post by: D.Yaros on December 09, 2012, 07:56:00 AM
Quote from: 76eldo on December 08, 2012, 05:28:55 PM
Two seat high end luxury cars have a real market, rich guys and their trophy wives.
Hmm, how in the heck did I end up with one?  I am not rich and my wife is the same age as me!
Title: Re: Allante collectibility??
Post by: wcoates on December 09, 2012, 06:27:00 PM
Have owned three( phase 1,2 and 3 ) and have already seen comments in this thread that pretty much summarizes my experiences/thoughts.  Top was a nightmare.  If powered from day one they'd still be making the car.  The 4100 engine was under powered and needed close maintenance on coolant pellets.   The 4.5 was bullet proof.  The N* was also a nightmare as I had the dreaded headgasket problem. Bosch brakes in '87-'92 were expensive to fix if maintenance was not performed regularly. 

Collectable- not in my lifetime.  Having said that, I have to say I think the car is gorgeous and as a summer ride/fun factor it has more bang per dollar than any Vette-Camaro or others.  Get a well cared for car and drive the heck out of it.  Collectable=no!
Title: Re: Allante collectibility??
Post by: 76eldo on December 10, 2012, 08:42:27 AM
Dave,

I was referring to the cars when they were new... 8)

So many are getting parted out they will be a very rare car in ten years.

Brian
Title: Re: Allante collectibility??
Post by: APerrone on December 15, 2012, 11:58:21 AM
I had a '91 that is still running great.  It has 190,000 miles on it and I never had any problems with the brakes other than replacing the pads from time to time and a brake line from the master cylinder to the pump.  I changed the fluid a couple of times, but nowhere near every year.  I am on my second Allante, a '92 with 92,000 miles and same goes for the brakes.  The top is no problem at all.  I can raise it and latch it within a few seconds.  The problem is with the mini covers if you have them in, and I always do, because you have to go around to the other side to take the right one out. 
I also have a '64 Deville convertible and the top is a bear to latch.  It takes 2 men to pull it into the holes and tighten the latch.  I even broke the latch trying to lock it in place.  It takes what seems like forever to get the top out of the boot and up to the windshield.  Once, when my son was following me with the '64, it started to rain.  We pulled over to the side and started putting the tops up.  I had the Allante top up before there was 50 rain drops on the seats  and the '64 was just getting to the windshield.  We almost drowned before we got it latched.
I have had an Allante since 1994, it is my daily driver and I tow it behind a motor home all winter, and although I have had problems, they weren't any more than any other car I have owned.
Collectible?  It would probably be a nightmare if you let it sit for months at a time.  It needs to be driven.  As far as the wife is concerned, if she can't operate the top, she can't drive it.  You would be surprised how quickly they learn how to operate the top without breaking a nail or even scratching the nail polish!
Happy Motoring
Art Perrone
Sodus Point, NY
'64 Deville convertible
'92 Allante
'99 Deville d'elegance