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Who has tried Hibernias nitrocellulose lacquer?

Started by Chip (CLC 21875), June 03, 2006, 09:38:23 AM

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Chip (CLC 21875)

Hibernia apparently sells nitrocellulose lacquer -- $100 for a gallon of black and $150 for a gallon of color.  Has anyone tried their paint?  If so, please reply.  THANKS!

Chip

Porter

Chip,

Lacquer is an old outdated product, breaks down with age. Why would you not want to use a urethane superior paint that will outlast lacquer and be durable ?

You can use urethane for a solid color and it will match lacquer, erspecially for black.

Ralph Messina refinished his 66 black Brougham with urethane and some clear added for durability, not much more cost if at all for urethane versus lacquer.

Porter



Chip (CLC 21875)

One word, Porter: Authenticity.  I fully realize the drawbacks, but I feel quite sure that the paint job will outlast me, IF I decide to go with nitrocellulose lacquer.  

The if in the above sentence means that I have not made up my mind.  Alternatively, I could go with Acrylic Enamel, Single-Stage Urethane or Basecoat/Clearcoat, so I very much appreciate your opinion.  

Speaking of Urethane, would you consider it best of the above alternatives?  Also, which manufacturer would you recommend?  Have you ever tried Color-ite (www.color-ite.com) in Connecticut?

Looking forward to your reply!


Chip

Porter

Chip,

I understand your thinking about authenticity but it can get extreme after awhile, for example, when refinishing a chassis (or the floorpans which will never be seen) original coatings are not a concern, or desirable for that matter if better newer products will preserve and protect the restoration better than the original factory finish products.

Not to be silly but original type grease, light bulbs etc. and tires are my favorite example, no such thing, why should paint be any different, especially when there are better more durable paints that can be used and will look the same ? Now, a basecoat / clearcoat will not look the same, too glossy.

You can spray a lacquer or urethane test panel, colorsand it and no one will be able to tell the difference with black paint, just solid color paint buffed to a gloss.

The big auto paint companies are PPG, Dupont, BASF, Sherwin Williams, etc. and the autobody shop will use whatever brand they prefer day in and day out for collision work, same for a resto shop.

I have used all but BASF, for an autobody hobby guy like me it comes down to local availablity.

Anymore questions fire away.

Porter


Doug Houston

Im a great one for authenticity, and thats why the modified crowd hates my intestines. HOWEVER, I do violate it myself. I never have my cars hudged, so I dont care.

In 1970, I restored my 41 Cadillac convertible coupe. I had the color (Monica Blue) mixed by a Rinshed-Mason dealer, to R-Ms formula. Authentic as Hell! The rest of the car was about 99percent authentic. If youre doing the car for yourself, with no intention of ever selling it, its a good cop-out.

But the car had water on it from a leaking roof, and got to looking like a junker. Had the conditions of storage been right, the Nitro lacquer would still have been good. The car is currently completely apart and being repainted. Im having him do it in color coat-clear(2 part) urethane. The reason is that its far more permanent than the Nitro lacquer could ever be. It will have a slightly different look, and I know it, but its more durable and resistant to stone chips, and possibly several other reasons. Ill have the car as long as I live, and if the next owner doesnt like it, let him repaint it. I wont be complaining.

By the way, authenticity be damned, if youre trophy-hungry, paint the thing red. You cant miss.

Ralph Messina CLC 4937

Hi Chip,
Let me add my 2 cents to the discussion. The chemistry and durability of new urethane paints are light years ahead of lacquer. I think urethanes get a bum rap because most people don’t take the time to block them smooth. I did my Brougham black BC / CC after looking at test panels comparing it to straight urethane color. If the clear is not applied too heavy, and it’s blocked out with 1500, 2000 and 3000, the finish is dead smooth and it takes a beautiful polish. I really couldn’t tell the difference compared to straight color.

I worked with lacquers for a long time, beginning when you could paint a car in your driveway for $100 worth of material. I thought it was the greatest until something better came along, namely urethane. However, the sophistication of equipment and the need to use one company’s paint system from the metal up means the paint needs to be applied in a shop. The body shop owner convinced me it would really be shame to put all the time and effort into metal working the body correctly only to put a less durable finish on it. The issue is that lacquer is very hard and non elastic. Temperature changes cause the metal and paint to expand at different rates leading to micro cracks in the finish. These cracks form the nodes from which the finish degrades. Urethane is more elastic and tougher. Your restoration will hold up a lot longer.

Unless there is something unusual or exotic about your car,  you may want to consider whether originality is worth the loss of durability. All the major marques and national clubs accept urethane as a suitable substitute of lacquer with no point deduction. Try a test panel of each to get a feel for the finishes. In the end, you’re the one that has to be satisfied.

HTH,
Ralph

Porter

Doug,

Have mercy, the modified guys love you, LOL

We dont advocate modifying good cars, only ones that are destined for the scrap yard or the parts bin, we prefer to see any restorable car restored, if modified only with modifications that can be reversed, without any cutting of steel, or only safety modifications, even a non factory paint color is a modification.

The need for preservation is respected by everyone, BTW, what to do with an HT 4100 car ? Hint: drop a 472/500/425/368 under the hood, RWD bolt in project, for the most part.

Lacquer is a joke in this day and age.

Porter

Lou CLC19028

Paint recommendations are tricky. For example, if  the best paint in the world was put in the hands of painter with no experience with that brand/type then you run the risk of having a poor paint job. The decision of type/brand of paint should be that of the shop/painter.
If you plan on doing the paint job yourself then we can recommend a proper finish, BUT only after we learn of your shop conditions. Things like what spray gun,compressor,ventilation and experience level will all play a major part in the best finish for you.

A very important thing to remember when spraying todays finishes. TAKE EVERYTHING YOU KNOW ABOUT LACQUER AND THROW IT OUT THE WINDOW. Using your lacquer techniques will certainly spell doom on a urethane paint job.  

Happy painting
Lou  

Chip (CLC 21875)

Hello, everyone,

and thank you for all your opinions and advice.  Porter, this should make you happy: I have decided to do this car in single-stage urethane from Color-Ite.  Their Monica Blue matched the original paint on my perfectly.

The other day, I saw a 1940 Oldsmobile with a recent (1999) lacquer paintjob.  The car looked GORGEOUS!  Still, my painter did not feel comfortable with lacquer (he had never used it) and whoever answered the telephone at Hibernia seemed utterly rude and did not know anything, so we decided on urethane.  I suppose I can always do the next car in lacquer.  

Again, thank you all for your input!


Clark
CLC 21875

Porter

You made a wise choice, I would recommend a minimum small order of that paint from them and spray a test panel, verify that it is the exact color match you desire and believe that it is.

I have no problem using any brand of paint but the painter needs to do his homework, I study the app. sheets carefully for proper mix ratios , correct hardeners and reducers.

Take your time and get the results you desire.

Good luck,

Porter