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The Magic Cadillac Ride: What made Cadillacs of yore ride so smooth?

Started by 64\/54Cadillacking, February 15, 2018, 10:42:09 PM

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64\/54Cadillacking

We know Cadillacs of the past, the last of the big ones, rode extremely well, and they’re a quite a few different reasons for this.

But what made Cadillacs ride better than say a Chevy Caprice or a full size Buick that had the exact same wheelbase and or similar dimension and suspension setup?

Different model years definitely matters, including seat comfort, and obviously the weight difference. But what I find amusing is if you look up at all the Cadillac brochures throughout the years, they always say the same thing “newly placed body mounts for a smoother ride”. Or something to that affect.

I mean how many times does Cadillac have to figure out where exactly to place body mounts to perfect ride quality? Even the wheelbases have been the same or similar sizes for like 30 years! If you count from the 50’s-76. The 4 link rear coil suspension is superior to leaf springs, and Caddy started using them in the late 50’s.

What else did Cadillac really have to do to honestly improve its ride quality which was perfected probably by the 70’s? Personally I think it’s all marketing hype to fool the customer into believing that many things were new, when technically they weren’t.

Other than that, it’s really impossible today to find a modern car that rides as smooth and serene like the old Full size Cads of the past. What’s even more amazing is how simple and basic the suspension is, yet it works so well. FWD cars will never ride like a RWD Cad, I think the only other car today that’s not priced over a $100,000 that comes somewhat close to the ride smoothness of the old giants, is the Chrysler 300.

What’s your guys thoughts?
Currently Rides:
1964 Sedan Deville
1954 Cadillac Fleetwood 60 Special
1979 Lincoln Mark V Cartier Designer Series
2007 Lexus LS 460L (extended wheelbase edition)

Previous Rides:
1987 Brougham D' Elegance
1994 Fleetwood Bro
1972 Sedan Deville
1968 Coupe Deville
1961 Lincoln Continental
1993 Lincoln Town Car Signature Series
1978 Lincoln Continental ( R.I.P.) 1978-2024 😞

Scot Minesinger

I have a Chrysler 300 and it is not as good riding as my 1970 Cadillac.  Of course the marketing about body mounts is hype.

You just cannot beat a 129" wheel base and 225" or so of length to produce a great ride.

There are some things shear size offers that cannot be duplicated no matter the technology.  For example the climate control system in my 1970 Cadillac is quiet because the ducts in the dash are large.  Modern cars do not have the space for large climate control ducts and you forever suffer hearing the objectionable air noise while driving.
Fairfax Station, VA  22039 (Washington DC Sub)
1970 Cadillac DeVille Convertible
1970 Cadillac Sedan DeVille
1970 four door Convertible w/Cadillac Warranty

Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621

I think body mounts definitely play some role- to what extent I cannot say.

I can say there is a subtle but noticeable difference in ride softness from 1977 to 1978 RWD models. The levels of interior noise are noticeably quieter in the early 1980s RWD models than it had been in the late '70s thanks to more generous use of sound deadening materials.

I do agree there is no comparison in the ride between Chrysler 300 and and most any of the full size Cadillac models.

Tire choice significantly influences ride quality as well.
A Cadillac Motorcar is a Possession for which there is no Acceptable Substitute

Big Apple Caddy

What's interesting is that the Chrysler 300 which is supposed to be the "luxury" fullsize Chrysler sedan can be had for thousands less than a Dodge Charger due to significant rebates/incentives on the 300 especially in some markets.  The entry 300 (300 Touring) is about $4K-$5K less than the entry Charger (Charger SXT).  Some darn cheap prices on new 300s out there if one is in the market for a fullsize sedan.

James Landi

Recall that Cadillac and GM specified that tires be run under 25 pounds of pressure... clearly a way to absorb road noise and bumps, especially with large bias ply tires.  Happy day, James

Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621

Need to be a bit more era-specific in this discussion. My opinion "Cadillac ride" reached its peak in 79-85 RWD models, possibly 1986. Broughams with standard (non d'Elegance) interior seemed not to ride as well from 1987 - 1989. Probably due the cheapened standard seating that appeared in 1987. (D'Elegance versions 87-89 were much softer riding so seat padding plays some role in overall ride quality.)

Ride noticeably stiffer in 1990-1992 Brougham - especially when equipped with 350 which was only available as a part of the HD trailering package. I always thought these cars rode better with the base 305 (91-92) & 307 (1990).
A Cadillac Motorcar is a Possession for which there is no Acceptable Substitute

64\/54Cadillacking

Quote from: Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621 on February 16, 2018, 11:33:08 AM
Need to be a bit more era-specific in this discussion. My opinion "Cadillac ride" reached its peak in 79-85 RWD models, possibly 1986. Broughams with standard (non d'Elegance) interior seemed not to ride as well from 1987 - 1989. Probably due the cheapened standard seating that appeared in 1987. (D'Elegance versions 87-89 were much softer riding so seat padding plays some role in overall ride quality.)

Ride noticeably stiffer in 1990-1992 Brougham - especially when equipped with 350 which was only available as a part of the HD trailering package. I always thought these cars rode better with the base 305 (91-92) & 307 (1990).

I would assume the ride would practically be the same from the late 70's all the way up until 92. I know seats makes a big difference, I wish Cadillac would have extended the huge pillow top cushion seats that are on the D'Elegance package Devilles all the way up to the 92 models. The softer the better for NVH reasons.

My 94 Fleetwood did not have the soft floaty ride of previous Caddy Broughams, but more of a firm one, and I think it was because Cadillac was focusing on handling more so with the redesign in 93. Times were changing, and it's possible that Cadillac heard from many of the buyers that they were getting tired of the "float".

Body mounts do make a huge difference as well, the thicker fatter the rubber, the better. In time, these mounts turn into brittle chunky pieces, and this is when the ride quality suffers.

The 300 will never ride like 70's Cadillac, but it has similar ride characteristics. Like a lot of wheel travel, and less jolting and bouncing around like you get in a FWD car.


Currently Rides:
1964 Sedan Deville
1954 Cadillac Fleetwood 60 Special
1979 Lincoln Mark V Cartier Designer Series
2007 Lexus LS 460L (extended wheelbase edition)

Previous Rides:
1987 Brougham D' Elegance
1994 Fleetwood Bro
1972 Sedan Deville
1968 Coupe Deville
1961 Lincoln Continental
1993 Lincoln Town Car Signature Series
1978 Lincoln Continental ( R.I.P.) 1978-2024 😞

cadillacmike68

Quote from: James Landi on February 16, 2018, 11:02:48 AM
Recall that Cadillac and GM specified that tires be run under 25 pounds of pressure... clearly a way to absorb road noise and bumps, especially with large bias ply tires.  Happy day, James

Not quite, my 1968 DeVille specified 26 PSI rear (but only 22 in front) The larger wide 9.00 (78 or 80 series) tires helped quite a bit.

Cadillacs of the late 60s and on had rubber bushings / isolaters on the coil springs. This made for a much quieter ride. The shocks were different. Level control - standard on all Fleetwood models (which included ElDorado from the mid  1960s on)also helped. Thicker glass and better glass surrounds, better door and floor noise insulation.  All these were built in to Cadillacs of yesteryear, but not most other marks.
Regards,
"Cadillac" Mike

Bill Young

Long wheelbase cars cannot be replaced with modern short wheelbase cars and expect to retain the Classic boulevard ride.

cadillacmike68

Regards,
"Cadillac" Mike

64\/54Cadillacking

Coil spring rate makes a huge difference too. Lots of wheel travel helps, and the old Cadillac's with the 129 and 133 inch wheelbases had a ton of it!

The more the wheels are allowed to move up and down, the better.

I was upset yesterday when I went to the tire shop to get new tires, and I couldn't get taller sidewall tires for my 17 Impala because the 235/50 is too short of a sidewall and you feel bumps and potholes too easy. I wanted a slightly taller tire, 235/55 on 18's, but because all modern cars these days have hardly any room in the fender well, stepping up in tire size will cause rubbing, so a bigger tire won't fit.

I hate the trend of low pro tires, almost rubber band size tires, and automakers expect their cars to still ride well? It just doesn't physically work and it sucks.

You wonder if automakers and it's individual executives of these companies actually test drive what they are producing. They should go over a street full of potholes and see what happens, the horrible vibrations entering the cabin, including tire and wheel damage!

I yearn for the day when fat tires make a comeback. :)
Currently Rides:
1964 Sedan Deville
1954 Cadillac Fleetwood 60 Special
1979 Lincoln Mark V Cartier Designer Series
2007 Lexus LS 460L (extended wheelbase edition)

Previous Rides:
1987 Brougham D' Elegance
1994 Fleetwood Bro
1972 Sedan Deville
1968 Coupe Deville
1961 Lincoln Continental
1993 Lincoln Town Car Signature Series
1978 Lincoln Continental ( R.I.P.) 1978-2024 😞

Jim Miller

My SRX rides better than the XTS I had, and I attribute to full profile tire. Also think the old cars with a full frame underneath rode better. A Chevy pickup with a long wheelbase, full frame, and higher profile tires rides better than most of today's cars.
Jim Miller

1941 6219
1949 6237X
1970 CDV
2021 XT6
Past:
1991 SDV
1999 DeElegence
2006 DTS
2013 XTS
2016 SRX

55 ledsled

I believe having the engine sit behind the front wheels on my 55 Cad helps a lot. Weight distribution is the key!

jdemerson

Quote from: Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621 on February 16, 2018, 11:33:08 AM

Ride noticeably stiffer in 1990-1992 Brougham - especially when equipped with 350 which was only available as a part of the HD trailering package. I always thought these cars rode better with the base 305 (91-92) & 307 (1990).

Eric, a small amendment:  Your statement is right for 1990 Brougham models. But in 1991 and 1992, the 350 engine was also available as a stand-alone option on the Brougham. I presume that in those years the ride would be the same as for 305 models, though surely not for those 91-92's with the trailering package.

John Emerson
1952 Cadillac Sedan 6219X
John Emerson
Middlebury, Vermont
CLC member #26790
1952 Series 6219X
http://bit.ly/21AGnvn

64\/54Cadillacking

Does anybody know how the 77-79 rode vs the 80’s and the 90-92 Broughams? Did they all ride the same or were they vastly different?

I am really considering one to buy, but I want the smoothest softest ride but the most reliable as well.
Currently Rides:
1964 Sedan Deville
1954 Cadillac Fleetwood 60 Special
1979 Lincoln Mark V Cartier Designer Series
2007 Lexus LS 460L (extended wheelbase edition)

Previous Rides:
1987 Brougham D' Elegance
1994 Fleetwood Bro
1972 Sedan Deville
1968 Coupe Deville
1961 Lincoln Continental
1993 Lincoln Town Car Signature Series
1978 Lincoln Continental ( R.I.P.) 1978-2024 😞

e.mason

It was all an illusion with smoke and mirrors.  For decades had the reputation of being the pinnacle of luxury, so anything they did was the best.  It should also be noted that the standards for a great ride has changed in the last few decades.  It became the in thing to give cars the stiff European ride.
Eric Mason

64\/54Cadillacking

Quote from: e.mason on February 22, 2018, 03:21:18 PM
It was all an illusion with smoke and mirrors.  For decades had the reputation of being the pinnacle of luxury, so anything they did was the best.  It should also be noted that the standards for a great ride has changed in the last few decades.  It became the in thing to give cars the stiff European ride.


I can’t stand a firm bouncy riding car, but unfortunately most mid size and full size cars today still ride too firm for my liking. The lack of wheel travel, and big wheels makes things even worse.
Currently Rides:
1964 Sedan Deville
1954 Cadillac Fleetwood 60 Special
1979 Lincoln Mark V Cartier Designer Series
2007 Lexus LS 460L (extended wheelbase edition)

Previous Rides:
1987 Brougham D' Elegance
1994 Fleetwood Bro
1972 Sedan Deville
1968 Coupe Deville
1961 Lincoln Continental
1993 Lincoln Town Car Signature Series
1978 Lincoln Continental ( R.I.P.) 1978-2024 😞

Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621

#17
Quote from: 64CaddieLacky on February 22, 2018, 03:06:15 PM
Does anybody know how the 77-79 rode vs the 80’s and the 90-92 Broughams? Did they all ride the same or were they vastly different?

I am really considering one to buy, but I want the smoothest softest ride but the most reliable as well.

For the best in ride and reliability, my opinion is 78-81 is best in both worlds. (78-80 if straight carburetor is preferred, w/o V8-6-4)

While I accept jdemerson's observation regarding the 350 Broughams of 1991 & 1992, nevertheless these cars do not have the same "Cadillac" ride of the earlier DeVille/Brougham. Again, my opinion.
A Cadillac Motorcar is a Possession for which there is no Acceptable Substitute

The Tassie Devil(le)

Yesterday, in preparation for the up-and-coming Australian GN in Renmark, South Australia, I decided to take my '72 for a short test drive to make sure that everything was ready for the event, so I decided to take my wife out to lunch.

Tyres (235x75x15 Maxxis Radials) were inflated to 30 Lbs at the front, and 25 Lbs at the rear, and headed off on a 150 Kilometer round trip, taking in twisty, hilly, but sealed roads, and the car ran beautifully.   At cruising speed, 10 Kph below the speed limit, everything was nice, and powering into corners was smooth and sweet, with no body roll, thanks to the newly fitted rear Sway Bar, and then up to the speed limit (100 Kph) when I felt like it was just as smooth.

AC on 75F, radio going, then the CD in when radio reception became distorted due to the terrain, it was a dream.

Got home and parked her in the garage, and all set for the rally, but will be increasing the rear tyre pressures to 30 Psi, as there will be a full trunk.

Bruce.   >:D
'72 Eldorado Convertible (LHD)
'70 Ranchero Squire (RHD)
'74 Chris Craft Gull Wing (SH)
'02 VX Series II Holden Commodore SS Sedan
(Past President Modified Chapter)

Past Cars of significance - to me
1935 Ford 3 Window Coupe
1936 Ford 5 Window Coupe
1937 Chevrolet Sports Coupe
1955 Chevrolet Convertible
1959 Ford Fairlane Ranch Wagon
1960 Cadillac CDV
1972 Cadillac Eldorado Coupe

64\/54Cadillacking

Quote from: Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621 on February 22, 2018, 03:59:24 PM
For the best in ride and reliability, my opinion is 78-81 is best in both worlds. (78-80 if straight carburetor is preferred, w/o V8-6-4)

While I accept jdemerson's observation regarding the 350 Broughams of 1991 & 1992, nevertheless these cars do not have the same "Cadillac" ride of the earlier DeVille/Brougham. Again, my opinion.


Thanks Eric! I do like 425 engine, and the D’Elegance package Devilles of the late 70’s with those huge pillow top seat cushions. The base model Cads seats seem too generic and lack the extra padding.

I also like the front grill a little better on 80’s-92 Broughams, but how do the interiors differ in terms of quality? Like the vinyl, leather and plastic durability? Also the exterior body quality metal work and fitting from the 77-79 and the 80-92?

I am finding a new love for these cars, something I could start up and drive everyday for pleasure with it’s more practical size. I miss the solid ride of my 94 Fleetwood, but I don’t feel like taking out the mammoth sized 78 Lincoln Continental for daily fun as that car is simply too big to park and fit in many places these days.
Currently Rides:
1964 Sedan Deville
1954 Cadillac Fleetwood 60 Special
1979 Lincoln Mark V Cartier Designer Series
2007 Lexus LS 460L (extended wheelbase edition)

Previous Rides:
1987 Brougham D' Elegance
1994 Fleetwood Bro
1972 Sedan Deville
1968 Coupe Deville
1961 Lincoln Continental
1993 Lincoln Town Car Signature Series
1978 Lincoln Continental ( R.I.P.) 1978-2024 😞