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cadillac diesel

Started by DBDB, January 26, 2017, 05:38:25 PM

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DBDB

As i am in Belgium and in the early eighties i saw several diesels around town but they all seem to be gone .They had a no good reputation to say it softly .Its been long time since i saw one moving around here .Are there still diesels on the road in the US because now and then i see one in a members list .Just curious .Daniel

bcroe

The cars might still be around, minus the diesel engine.  A lot
of diesel engines got replaced with a small block Olds, making
a really great car.  In some cases the trans needed to be swapped
as well.  There are 3 such cars here.  Bruce Roe

TJ Hopland

There are a few still around, lots of Oldsmobiles too.  Cadillac and Olds were the divisions that pushed diesels the hardest so there were a lot more of them around originally so more survivors today.   Every once in a while I see something like a Chev Caprice but after that it gets pretty rare.   Almost never see a Buick, Pontiac, or pickups.   I think they sold a decent number of pickups but I just don't see or hear of them very often so they must have been converted or junked.   

I am a regular on several forums and do see a few of them pop up around the world so it seems to be a matter of how many were sold originally.    I have been fairly heavy into them for about the last 10 years.   When I started you could still find most of the parts pretty easily and the prices were decent but the last few years there are more and more things that sometimes you can't easily find at any price so its getting more expensive to keep one running.  I don't think anything has been re produced for them so we have been running on stuff that has just been on the shelf for 20+ years. 

I think there are more out there than most think.   I get privately contacted all the time with people asking for help or saying the are glad to see they are not the only ones.   I usually don't ask but it seems like some people don't want to admit they own an enjoy them.    I got my first one mostly because people hated them so much, I wanted to see what it was all about.   Before that I had very little diesel experience now my operational fleet has more diesels than gas. 

They did have some weak points in the design.  Some things they should have known better and other things they did get fixed after the first couple years.   Even if the design was better I don't think they would have been that much more successful.   At the time the infrastructure for the average person to run diesel just wasn't there.   At the time only part of the industrial and commercial stuff was diesel plus we still had a lot of fuel stations with leaky underground tanks so the fuel wasn't the best quality either.   Early 80's cars got EFI or at least basic computer controls along with the locking torque converters and overdrive and the fuel got more expensive so it just wasn't worth the hassle.   
StPaul/Mpls, MN USA

73 Eldo convert w/FiTech EFI
80 Eldo Diesel
90 CDV
And other assorted stuff I keep buying for some reason

bcroe

When I bought a diesel the fuel cost 20% than gasoline.  But
before long gasoline cost 20% less than diesel fuel, so what is
the use of a diesel? 

One of the problems with diesels is that they had identical
gearing to a gas car, which made them really slow.  I put switch
pitch transmissions behind diesel engines, which really improved
performance, and cured the tendency of those TH200s to blow up. 
Later 4 speeds probably did much better.  Bruce Roe

Scot Minesinger

My Dad loved his diesel GM products.  He took delivery of a brand new 1980 Buick Electra diesel (company paid for it, he picked it out), then in 1982 the company bought him a brand new 1982 Olds 98 diesel.  These cars got about 27mph highway at 70 mph and the diesel fuel was less cost than gasoline at the time.  The company changed management and my Dad had to buy his cars after that and kept the Olds 98 diesel until my sister crashed it with 148k miles.  At the time diesel was also supposed to be more durable than gasoline engines.  I did not agree with my Dad and thought the diesels were loud and underpowered, and preferred to drive my gasoline 4bbl V-8's of the day.

My gasoline powered Chevy Caprice with 305 V-8 was geared high and also was aerodynamic, and delivered 27 mpg at 70mph too, but was much faster than a diesel car.  It was driven past 300k miles on original engine, trans, diff and even ac.  By 1985 I would say the need for diesels was gone due to cars like this, plus GM early 1980's diesels had some durability/service issues.

Today it seems the main reason to buy diesels is for trucks primarily because they are now more durable than gasoline engines and have better low end torque.
Fairfax Station, VA  22039 (Washington DC Sub)
1970 Cadillac DeVille Convertible
1970 Cadillac Sedan DeVille
1970 four door Convertible w/Cadillac Warranty

Big Apple Caddy

Production of the Olds diesels peaked in 1981 but soon after the engine's reliability issues started to become more and more public and sales and resales started to sink.  Gasoline prices dropped too.  By the mid 1980s, resale values of diesel-equipped Cadillacs, Oldsmobiles, etc. were well below comparable gas engine models.  Many cars also had their original engines replaced with new "Target" diesels or were later converted to gas.

Diesels of this era are certainly still out there and come up for sale on sites like craigslist, eBay, etc.

D.Yaros

Back then I was a Cincinnati, OH BBB arbitrator with whom GM contracted to arbitrate lemon law claims.  I required GM to buy back more than a few diesel powered cars.
Dave Yaros
CLC #25195
55 Coupe de Ville
92 Allante
62 Olds  

You will find me on the web @:
http://GDYNets.atwebpages.com  -Dave's Den
http://graylady.atwebpages.com -'55 CDV site
http://www.freewebs.com/jeandaveyaros  -Saved 62 (Oldsmobile) Web Site
The home of Car Collector Chronicles.  A  monthly GDYNets newsletter focusing on classic car collecting.
http://www.scribd.com/D_Yaros/

TJ Hopland

Lots of tidbits about diesels, especially older GM ones. 

I will try and do headers so you can pick out what (if any) of my ramblings you wish to read.

-The 5.7 and GM's diesel program in general-

They worked in a bunch of improvements in 80 so the 81's were a a little more reliable and user friendly.   I think it was really the increasing cost of fuel and increased efficiency of the gas engines that killed the concept.   The diesel's MPG didn't really get much better with the OD transmissions and other improvements.   The gas engines in some cases darn near doubled in efficiency under some conditions.   Even if they were reliable they were still a hassle with the fuel and oils that was available at the time.  Originally the cost per mile was better enough to make up for the hassle but when that changed it just wans't worth it for most people.
 
-Production numbers that seem real or at least plausible-
81 was the peak year by quite a bit from what I have been able to research.  Cadillac numbers I have seen in multiple places and slightly different so I don't think they all came from the same source so they MAY be accurate are 81 42,000  82 20,000  83 5,000  84 2,500  85 1,000.    For those years I think Oldsmobile sold a similar number then Chev, Pontiac, Buick were a few more.

No one seems to have total numbers but what I see the most is something like this:

78 3,000  was only Seville and a couple Olds models
79 9,000  Both Olds and Cad added a couple models
80 40,000  I believe it was available on all Olds and Cadillac models and a few models for the others
81 90,000  Improved design and a V6 for some models available on most Buick, Pontiac, and Chev models.
82 50,000  I think was the introduction of the transverse V6 which was a much improved design.
83 12,000  working on a transverse V5 for the smaller FWD cars
84 6,000  new emissions for CA
85 2,000  new emissions for all and some other electronics to improve overall operation
86 0    but people in the parts biz at the time said many of the books listed them so they must have pulled the plug at the last minute and looking at the numbers you see why.

-The Oldsmobile diesel family-
The 5.7 V8 ran with fairly minor changes the whole run which was 78-85.  Was also available in the 1/2 ton 2wd pickups 78-81.  78-79 there was also a smaller bore 4.3 V8 that was available in some of the mid size Olds cars with a manual transmission.  The 4.3 turned out to be even more under powered than the 5.7 and didn't save any space or weight so supposedly there were never any replacement 4.3's.  IF / when they needed replacement they got replaced with 5.7's.    Since that turned out not to be such a good idea they did the chop 2 cylinders off thing for those mid size cars which made a 4.3 V6.   Those didn't seem to be too common I would imagine because those cars didn't last too long, the were replaced with transverse FWD cars.

The 4th engine was the interesting one.  It was still a 4.3 V6 but this time designed for transverse installation.  This meant a new block to accommodate the new mounting requirements and they tried to lighten it a bit.  They also designed a new head that used a better bolt pattern and more of them.   There were apparently some with aluminum heads to further cut down on weight.   Another weight cutting thing they tried was magnesium hoods along with other lighter materials up front.   

The size and weight problem was the reason for the last design which was a 2.5 liter V5.  Besides being overall smaller and lighter they further saved space by putting the fuel injection pump where the 6th cylinder would have been.   They built some prototypes, one of which is on display at the Oldsmobile museum.   It never went into production due to declining sales.

-Was the 5.7 a 'converted' gas engine?-
Short answer NO.  IF you know anything about the differences between gas and diesel engines you know that just isn't possible on many levels. 

The 5.7 did share a lot in common with the Oldsmobile gas engines which made a lot of sense since at the time practically every GM car was designed to fit an Oldsmobile V8.   It would have been pretty dumb to make something that had completely different mounting requirements.   Since it was to share those basic dimensions and be built on the same lines it also made sense for it to share other parts.   Why bother to make different valve covers?  Oil pan?  Water pump?  Exhaust manifolds?  That part was all great, common parts, a win for everyone.   

Where the biggest problem came in was that they decided to pretty much use the same head design right down to the actual head bolts, a design that worked decent for 10:1 now has to do 22:1 compression.  Diesels typically have at least 4 head bolts per cylinder, gas engines including the Olds share a pair of bolts between cylinders so each head got 10.   I have a 3 cylinder International tractor that has 14.   That was all made worse by their apparent presumably cost savings to decision to use the exact same bolts as the gas engine at first.  80/81 they went to a much stronger bolt that went deeper into the bock which helped a lot.  The also had similar issues on the bottom end with the main caps which they also fixed at the same time.  Those weakness coupled with low quality fuel and lack of experience on both the owners and service side are what gave it the reputation it had.

-GM and other diesels in the era-
Chevette and I think the first couple years of S10 (and maybe the Chev LUV?) had an option for a 1.8L Isuzu diesel.    It was apparently a decent motor, lots of stories of those with 100's of 1000's of miles.  Presumably a motor that was very common and popular in other parts of the world.   

International Scouts had an option for a Perkins diesel.   AMC had a couple cars with a Perkins diesel option.   Ford had a Mazda diesel option in the Escort.   Fairly late in the game they tried a Mercedes? or maybe it was a BMW diesel in the Cougar or Continental.   I actually test drove one a couple years ago and it was that style of car I just can't remember those little details.         

-the trucks-
78-81 you could get a 5.7 diesel in a C10 truck.  In 82 6.2 diesel came out for all the light trucks. C/K (2wd/4wd) 1/2 ton through 1 ton.  The 6.2 was built with help from Detroit Diesel which at the time was owned by GM.  It didn't really share anything in common with any other Detroit engine so I don't know what their contribution was to the design but they are generally credited with the design,  maybe only to make people think it was better than the Olds? 

Much like the 5.7 the 6.2 was built to easily fit in place of a gas motor, in this case the big block.  It has the same mounting points right down to the exhaust dump locations so there were not any major changes to the line required.   Being a 90 degree V8 with similar overall proportions is where the similarities ended.  It did initially use the same glow plug system and same basic injection pump as the 5.7.    Military bought a ton of em in the K5 Blazers.   Was also the engine the Humvee used.  92 they made it into a 6.5 and added a turbo.  94 they added full computer controls including electronically controlling the mechanical injection pump.  People that own those keep a spare pump driver module in the glove box, they are that reliable even 20 years later.  At $250-500 each it can be pretty annoying but is nothing compared to buying an injector for a newer common rail diesel or direct injection gas engine so I guess we (6.5 owners) should not complain.   Military never went to that design, they stayed fully mechanical.

-GM's original diesel concept-
GM never intended any of their diesels to be the ultimate power houses.   Their goal was always to give similar performance to the big gas engines with much better economy which is what they did.   Adding the turbo was a little help but by the mid 90's Ford and Dodge were taking sales away with their diesel trucks that actually were powerhouses.   In 2000 they introduced the Duramax which was designed by Isuzu and quit building the 6.5.   The Duramax did and still does compete with Dodge and Ford in the HD light truck market.   When GM stopped building the 6.5 AM General formed a division called General Engine Products and bought the design and tooling and I believe still builds the same engine today.   With the military phasing out the Humvee and not spending the money they used to I would guess they are not building a lot of them anymore.   Until the Duramax you could get a diesel in a 1/2 ton truck too.  The other makes only did it in at least the 3/4. 

-general thoughts on the subject of diesel and the future of automobiles-
Diesels are a no brainier if you need to regularly haul a load any sort of distance and for any sort of an application with a constant heavy load like a generator, locomotive, construction equipment.   

On the HD light truck front if you take a 3500 dually and throw say 10,000-15,000 pounds behind it and head cross country with a gas engine you will be lucky to see two digit mpg and are not going to just set the cruise and go, you will have to be proactive in the steep grades.   Take the same truck with the diesel you should be solid in the teens and can stay in the fast lane with the cruise on.   

On the car front the hybrids can do similar or even better mileage around town but the diesels still win on the highway, under some conditions by quite a bit.  On the highway you don't get any benefit from the electrics so you are just dragging around extra weight and running through a compromised drivetrain.   I don't see hybrids really taking over.  They may find a place for some applications but I think are just kinda an intermediate step that helps the development of various electric technologies.  My guess is we will end up with a straight electric drive like a Tesla.  They don't have a complex inefficient transmission to go through.  Fewer parts means less weight and cost.  Where we will get other than battery power from is the trick.   Will it be a gas or diesel engine running a generator locomotive style?  Maybe fueled by some sort of fuel cell?  Those questions are why we are for the most part stuck with battery only or the not the most elegant hybrid design for now. 

The direct injection gas engines look like they could give diesels some competition with a little more development.   What is has been hurting the diesels for the last 10 or so years on several fronts is emissions.  Most of the reliability and hassle issues are directly related to emissions components.  VW had their solution to the problem which served them well till recently.   Until 2014 most of their engines didn't have the components that were causing everyone else the headaches. 

I was doing some digging on EPA sites and soon gas engines are gong to have to deal with some of the emissions diesels have been dealing with for years.  From what I read at this point no one has a working design that even comes close to meeting the upcoming requirements that are not that far out so its going to get interesting.   You start digging into the EPA very deep on these subjects and you find out its everything you come to expect from government.
StPaul/Mpls, MN USA

73 Eldo convert w/FiTech EFI
80 Eldo Diesel
90 CDV
And other assorted stuff I keep buying for some reason

bcroe

What a diesel really loves is a turbocharger; real power and even
better economy I read.  However turbos were always hard to deal
with until there were electronic engine management systems. 

Some may remember the blowup over Chev engines in Olds cars. 
I figure the engine shortage occurred because an Olds line was
changed over to diesels.  While there are many differences between
an Olds gas 5.7L and a diesel 5.7L, there are far too many things
EXACTLY the same, to say that the diesel was a brand new design. 
Some have done a lot of experimenting swapping things like heads
and cranks between them, not to mention outright conversions.  I
always wondered if a converted diesel wouldn't be an ideal
candidate for an engine with SERIOUS boost?  Bruce Roe

Big Apple Caddy

Quote from: TJ Hopland on January 27, 2017, 10:37:31 PM86 0    but people in the parts biz at the time said many of the books listed them so they must have pulled the plug at the last minute and looking at the numbers you see why.
I believe GM had announced by late 1984 that they were discontinuing the diesels, well before the 1986 model year.
 

Quote from: TJ Hopland on January 27, 2017, 10:37:31 PM
AMC had a couple cars with a Perkins diesel option.
I didn't know any AMC cars had diesels, which ones?


Quote from: TJ Hopland on January 27, 2017, 10:37:31 PMFord had a Mazda diesel option in the Escort.
As well as the Mercury Lynx and Ford Tempo/Mercury Topaz.


Quote from: TJ Hopland on January 27, 2017, 10:37:31 PMFairly late in the game they tried a Mercedes? or maybe it was a BMW diesel in the Cougar or Continental.   I actually test drove one a couple years ago and it was that style of car I just can't remember those little details.
They were BMW turbo diesels offered in 1984 and 1985 Continentals and Mark VIIs.

TJ Hopland

The AMC that I actually saw was a Eagle which apparently was one of their big sellers at the time, that was a Perkins.  The Eagle was their 4x4 car.   I never really dug deep but I am pretty sure they also did some Jeeps.   I saw some mention of a Perkins but never anything firm like a sales brochure.   There is some mention about a Renault diesel in some models but I don't know if that was domestic or maybe export models?    I think AMC did have a partnership / part ownership deal with Renault near the end, they may have actually been building a model or two here so importing a few engines would seem possible.   I believe Renault was in just about as bad of shape at the time so it didn't really help. 

Thanks for cleaning up my memory on the BMW / Lincoln detail.   That seemed like an odd combination, did Ford have some history with BMW or did they just go out and look for the most reliable diesel that would fit?   I would guess the Courier pickups had a diesel option?  And it had to be a Mazda since that is what the truck was?   Basically the Ford version of the Chev Luv,  Pre S10 and Ranger.   

Turbos do work really well on diesels and really give them the 'pep' they tended to be missing in the early years.  Making a turbo work on a diesel is much easier than it was on a pre EFI gas engine, really the only trick was making things strong enough to hold together.   My guess is they did experiment with turbos on the Olds engines but things like the head bolt / gasket proved to be a weak point with the extra stress.  There were quite a few Mercedes diesels with turbos roaming around the USA at that time.   I don't think the VW's that were here in that era had turbos.   Volvo was using VW diesel engines so if you credit those to VW there were quite a few VW diesels here back then. 

There was a period where the Olds 5.7 diesel blocks were sought after by performance builders.  One reason was that they were heavier in some spots but the main reason was they used the larger main journals from the big Olds engines so you could drop a 425/455 crank in em and get a cheap stroker motor.   Similar to with the chev putting a 400 crank in a 350 block, you got the 383.   The Chev used the same bearings so it was easier in their case.   Proabbly one reason it was popular in the Olds was there was a time where you could get the diesel engines for free and cheap horsepower has always been popular.
StPaul/Mpls, MN USA

73 Eldo convert w/FiTech EFI
80 Eldo Diesel
90 CDV
And other assorted stuff I keep buying for some reason

bcroe

I found plenty of advantages from the diesel exercise, which are still
in effect here today.  That hydro boost brake system is just great; got
2 of them running.  In every car and half a dozen spare diesel alternators
are rebuilt for service here.  I service fuel tanks as a regular maintenance
item; 5 cars here have larger capacity diesel tanks with gas pickup
units.  There was no restrictor, so you could still put in leaded gas
before they stopped making it. 

Lots of engines at the scrap yard; I scavenged oil pans with a quart
more capacity that a RWD 403; also found a heavy duty oil pump on
some.  They used that 4" air cleaner. A big Toro air cleaner sat extra
low on the carb, so I used the lower half of one of those with a diesel
top to fit 4" air cleaners to my RWD cars.  And in time I realized none
of my diesel built cars would ever be called for emissions testing, one
less problem.  Bruce Roe

Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621

5.7 diesel option added approx 600 lb weight to the car. While it may have been possible be to convert a diesel engine to run on gasoline but I seriously doubt it could be done the other way around. Even at that, the power-to-weight ratio would have been at a serious disadvantage in the former scenario.

Just one clarification - not all 1980 (and later) Olds models were available with diesel, ie: Firenza, Omega, possibly others.

Limousines and Commercial Chassis not available.

Good diesel history by TJ.
A Cadillac Motorcar is a Possession for which there is no Acceptable Substitute

bcroe

I would like to see an accounting of the weight difference.  I see a
second battery, a super duty starter, and hydro boost; possibly 150 lb
added.  The engine is heavier, but it is NOT 300 lb heavier (please don't
make me go out and weigh mine).  Till 4 speeds came out diesels were
used with a TH200 trans and NO bucket of gravel cat converter; these
both were weight SAVINGS over a TH400.  The alternator difference is
a couple pounds, add in an extra quart of oil with the cooler lines and
extra fuel in the tank, what have I missed?  Bruce Roe

Big Apple Caddy

Quote from: TJ Hopland on January 28, 2017, 09:38:54 AMI think AMC did have a partnership / part ownership deal with Renault near the end, they may have actually been building a model or two here so importing a few engines would seem possible.   I believe Renault was in just about as bad of shape at the time so it didn't really help.
Renault did have partnerships with and eventually part ownership of AMC.


Quote from: TJ Hopland on January 28, 2017, 09:38:54 AMThanks for cleaning up my memory on the BMW / Lincoln detail.   That seemed like an odd combination, did Ford have some history with BMW or did they just go out and look for the most reliable diesel that would fit?   I would guess the Courier pickups had a diesel option?  And it had to be a Mazda since that is what the truck was?   Basically the Ford version of the Chev Luv,  Pre S10 and Ranger.
I am not aware of any partnerships at the time between Ford and BMW beyond the turbo diesel engines.    Sales of the turbo diesel Lincolns were far below expectations.

Depsite Mazda having diesel pickups, I don't think the Courier was offered with a diesel in the U.S.   The Ranger however did have an optional diesel.

TJ Hopland

Ya no way the engine itself weighs that much more unless you are comparing it to something especially light.  I suppose I could see an extra 600 for the whole car.   Bruce mentions several things that are just a little heavier and there were a lot of little things so they would all add up.    You got a little more in all the fluids, you got a bunch of sound insulation.   It ads up. 

I think a really tweaked 350 diesel block can get out to around 450 cuin.   That would be cool if it was like a Chev and the most you could normally do was a 400 without going to the big block which was a lot bigger and heavier than the small block.  Factory made a 455 so why try to build your own?   With an Olds the 'big' block was just a taller deck so you were only talking maybe an inch in height and a couple in width,  length was the same.   A stock 455 would be lighter and even today probably cheaper to build.   I think most people that went with the diesel blocks were doing some sort of boost and wanted the extra strength.  Roller lifters was something that came with the improvements in 80 so that was something some people may have wanted that had big plans.   They didn't do it to the 307 till 86 maybe. 

I thought there was one year Olds said every model but looking at the lists it does appear that there was always at least one exception similar to Cadillac.   The Omega is one that never seemed to have it.   When they switched to FWD the smaller ones didn't have an option either,  guess that was where the v5 was going to go.   

Just a quick look at 1981.   Looking at the basic models, not drilling into sub models so in the case of Cadillac that is Eldo, Seville, Deville, Fleetwood, and Commercial Chassis.   I'm sure with all the makes there are combinations that were or were not optional within each model. 
   
Cad 4 of 5.  Olds 8 of 9.  Buick  6 of 7.  Pontiac 4 of 8.  Chev  3 of 9

You would have thought some of the others had something in the works and after seeing GM's numbers in 81 would have come out with something in 82 or 83 thinking that it was catching on.   Escort didn't come out till 84 and I don't see anything from Chrysler in that era, if they did it had to be a very limited thing like AMC tried.    Seems odd since they all had some sort of relationships with Europeans that had diesel options and were more or less re badging European models in some cases.   VW and Mercedes diesels always seemed to have a following here, at least enough to make it worth them importing them.  Looking at ads I am amazed at how many 80's 300's and Rabbits are still around.   

In the 80's there was minimal emissions for diesel cars.   The requirements were apparently pretty lax till around 2005 which also happened to be a period where gas prices went up.  I remember that time well, I went out and bought a new Hemi then shortly after that the 80 Eldo so I could afford to drive anywhere.    That was also the same period where the hybrids really started to sell.  I bet a lot of manufacturers looked at diesel at that time but looked at the reliability and cost issues with the emissions and figured it wasn't worth it.   

By the time they sort of got some of the bugs out of the US systems gas was cheap again so no one cared.    I think it was around 2009 everyone that sold cars in the US other than Ford and Toyota for some reason was announcing upcoming US diesel models.  I remember reading an article in a motortrend type of place that said we were going to go from about 10 choices (all German) to like 20 the next year and like 40 the following year.  About 90% of them never came to be.   Most cases they were 'world' models so it was just a matter of dealing with the emissions, not a complete re design or re tooling so it seemed like it would actually happen.   2014 looked like things were ramping up again and there were more models announced but then VW happened and seemed to scare everyone away again.   

My current daily driving fleet is a 95 Suburban diesel,  81 Riviera diesel,  13 Jetta diesel.   In 2 weeks the VW is going back to VW.   The VW has been a great car, no complaints.  They are giving me $24k for a car I paid $28k for almost 4 years and 75k miles ago.   Can't pass up that deal even though I would have normally kept the car for another year.  I think I am going to replace it with basically the same car, dealers have 2015's still on the lot that it looks like they will finally be able to sell with the original full warranty plus the extension they are putting on the emissions related stuff.   I don't have firm numbers yet but basically it looks like I will have a new car and warranty for about a 1/4 the payment I am making now.   That may leave room in the budget for some fun stuff.  My 73 has been neglected the last several years.         


StPaul/Mpls, MN USA

73 Eldo convert w/FiTech EFI
80 Eldo Diesel
90 CDV
And other assorted stuff I keep buying for some reason

Big Apple Caddy

Quote from: TJ Hopland on January 29, 2017, 11:33:55 AM
You would have thought some of the others had something in the works and after seeing GM's numbers in 81 would have come out with something in 82 or 83 thinking that it was catching on.   Escort didn't come out till 84 and I don't see anything from Chrysler in that era, if they did it had to be a very limited thing like AMC tried.    Seems odd since they all had some sort of relationships with Europeans that had diesel options and were more or less re badging European models in some cases.
As already discussed, Ford used diesel engines from BMW and Mazda but Chrysler did also have similar plans.  They were going to buy diesel engines from Peugeot for their various FWD models but it never happened.


Quote from: TJ Hopland on January 29, 2017, 11:33:55 AMIn the 80's there was minimal emissions for diesel cars.   The requirements were apparently pretty lax till around 2005 which also happened to be a period where gas prices went up.       
When GM announced in late 1984 that they were discontinuing the diesels, one of the reasons they gave was the "more stringent emission standards" going into effect the next year.

bcroe

If there were 200 or 300 pounds of extra insulation, that could account
for the rest of 600 lb extra.  When my Delta was converted from diesel,
it was amazing how quiet it was.  Still have it, 320,000 miles.  Bruce Roe

TJ Hopland

Its interesting that Chrysler was looking at Peugeot.   You would have thought they would have used Mitsubishi but the little I can find on them looks like maybe they didn't have a diesel at the time.    Would have been interesting if they did, maybe the K platform (which was virtually every Chrysler product at the time) would have come with a diesel.   Would that have been what put them under or still have been a success?  That 2.2 they used wasn't exactly a great engine on many levels.

I wonder what the gas/diesel percentages were around the world at that time?  It sort of looks like maybe Asia wasn't big.   How big was Europe at the time?  Or was it mostly the Germans?   
StPaul/Mpls, MN USA

73 Eldo convert w/FiTech EFI
80 Eldo Diesel
90 CDV
And other assorted stuff I keep buying for some reason

Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621

#19
For whatever it may be worth, a 262 V6 diesel weighs 590 lbs while a 75/76 Cadillac 500 weighs just 5 lbs more at 595.

http://www.strokerengine.com/engineweights.html

So if a GM diesel weighs about the same as a gasoline engine twice its size, it should be fairly apparent a 5.7 diesel weighs significantly more than a 5.7 gasoline engine.

There is no way a bone-stock gasoline Olds 350 can be converted to diesel successfully.


A Cadillac Motorcar is a Possession for which there is no Acceptable Substitute