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1968 El Dorado needs a good home

Started by m-mman, February 10, 2017, 06:10:53 PM

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m-mman

Classic story, 1968 El Dorado, original owner bought new in Beverly Hills Ca. He dies, the kids have no interest and the widow wants it to go to a good home.

I got the lead that she had an "old Cadillac" and went to investigate. Nice car. 58K miles. Garage kept. Started right up, she drives it around the block at least once a month. (or has her gardener drive it for her) Clean, straight has all the owners manuals, registrations, 1968 black California plates, etc.

The bad stuff (from a collector point of view)
It is NOT white. It is code 42 Sudan beige(!)  :-[  with a black top.
It has a lot of little things that need tinkering.  Windows are slow. The seat clicks but doesnt move. The door locks dont work. The leather is torn on the drivers backrest. She said the A/C doesn't work (just Freon? or likely the entire climate control?) The headlights are stuck open. A slow tire leak put the spare on the ground and the road tire in the trunk.
The under hood is dirty, but it is the type of dirty that comes from someone doing a lot of maintenance. The ALC compressor is attached with hose clamps.

The price: Her husband was locked into believing it was worth $20,000 and would not hear of taking a penny less.
I told her that (in its current condition) I could not see it bringing more than $10,000 max.  She eventually said that she would take $12,000

It is not anything I want or need.   She really wants it to go to a good home. (so do I)  Do you have interest? It is in the Los Angeles CA area.
Buying it will take the cash AND a story about how good of a home you will give it. I am not into trying to profit from it, I want to connect it with a forever home  ;)
PM me to discuss details.


I have no idea why the pictures are posting upside down???
1929 341B Town Sedan
1971 Miller-Meteor Lifeliner ambulance
Other non-Cadillac cars
Near Los Angeles, California

CLC #29634

Highwayman68

"I have no idea why the pictures are posting upside down???"

This made my day! My wife was walking by as I was looking at the picture with the trunk open (Enlarged) and she asked me "Does that person have his car hanging from the garage ceiling?" Well of course I had to reply with a straight face "Yes he does because he doesn't have enough room in the garage with the other cars to keep it on the floor." BLAH HA HA HA HA HA!!! This one is going to stick around for a very long time.
1968 Fleetwood Purchased in 1981

76eldo

I don't think she is being realistic with the price but it may be the rare factory prototype equipped with Anti-Gravity control and that would make it really special!

Brian
Brian Rachlin
Huntingdon Valley, Pa
I prefer email's not PM's rachlin@comcast.net

1960 62 Series Conv with Factory Tri Power
1970 DeVille Conv
1970 Eldo
1970 Caribu (?) "The Cadmino"
1973 Eldorado Conv Pace Car
1976 Eldorado Conv
1980 Eldorado H & E Conv
1993 Allante with Hardtop (X2)
2008 DTS
2012 CTS Coupe
2017 XT
1956 Thunderbird
1966 Olds Toronado

76eldo

I "fixed" your pics for you.

Brian
Brian Rachlin
Huntingdon Valley, Pa
I prefer email's not PM's rachlin@comcast.net

1960 62 Series Conv with Factory Tri Power
1970 DeVille Conv
1970 Eldo
1970 Caribu (?) "The Cadmino"
1973 Eldorado Conv Pace Car
1976 Eldorado Conv
1980 Eldorado H & E Conv
1993 Allante with Hardtop (X2)
2008 DTS
2012 CTS Coupe
2017 XT
1956 Thunderbird
1966 Olds Toronado

Jeff Rosansky CLC #28373

Actually you can get all the dirt out from under the seats if you turn it upside down.
Jeff
Jeff Rosansky
CLC #28373
1970 Coupe DeVille (Big Red)
1955 Series 62 (Baby Blue)
Dad's new 1979 Coupe DeVille

Bob Hoffmann CLC#96

I'm sure we all appreciate MMMan posting this. However... that car has at least 158K on it & had a rough life. Maybe worth $5K.
1968 Eldorado slick top ,white/red interior
2015 Holden Ute HSV Maloo red/black interior.
             
Too much fun is more than you can have.

Mike Baillargeon #15848

I have to agree with Bob on this one.

Mike  #15848
Mike
Baillargeon
#15848

m-mman

Uhhhh . . . . excuse me???  158,000 miles???
I have seen the car.
I have seen the paperwork.
I have seen the maintenance records.
I have been buying collector cars for 40+ years. The car truly does have only 58,000 miles.

You are currently how many miles from the car?
You have examined it how closely?

Ok maybe my photos were not the best, but on what factual information are you basing your opinion?

Maybe you think all 1968 Eldorados are only worth $5,000.
Maybe you think (for whatever reason) that this Eldorado is worth $5,000 (Yes, I know it is not worth the $20k her husband always wanted or even the $12K she currently is asking) but to make up 'fake news' to justify your opinion is not ethical.
Please explain . . .????

I am just trying to help the widow with finding an appreciative second owner. I an NOT profiting in any manner.  Her next step is to donate the car to a charity auction, is that the appropriate disposition?

How would YOU help this person find a caretaker for this car? (Isnt that what this collector stuff is all about?)

If you want to roast and denigrate a car you have never personally inspected, Post your opinions on the "Bring A Trailer" site.

1929 341B Town Sedan
1971 Miller-Meteor Lifeliner ambulance
Other non-Cadillac cars
Near Los Angeles, California

CLC #29634

The Tassie Devil(le)

I find it hard to believe that the damage to the front seat could have been done in just 58,000 miles of use.   Unless the owner drove it a mile every time, and got in and out of it every time.   Or, was wearing a holstered gun on his left side. ;)

Bruce. >:D
'72 Eldorado Convertible (LHD)
'70 Ranchero Squire (RHD)
'74 Chris Craft Gull Wing (SH)
'02 VX Series II Holden Commodore SS Sedan
(Past President Modified Chapter)

Past Cars of significance - to me
1935 Ford 3 Window Coupe
1936 Ford 5 Window Coupe
1937 Chevrolet Sports Coupe
1955 Chevrolet Convertible
1959 Ford Fairlane Ranch Wagon
1960 Cadillac CDV
1972 Cadillac Eldorado Coupe

76eldo

So it's better to donate the car than sell it and put $5000 or $7000 in your pocket?

Unless your accountant can work some magic with a deduction at the highest book price it makes no sense to me.

How about just putting the car on ebay with better pics and a starting price of $5000.00 and see where it goes.

Or do a $10,000 reserve?

Just a few ideas.

Brian
Brian Rachlin
Huntingdon Valley, Pa
I prefer email's not PM's rachlin@comcast.net

1960 62 Series Conv with Factory Tri Power
1970 DeVille Conv
1970 Eldo
1970 Caribu (?) "The Cadmino"
1973 Eldorado Conv Pace Car
1976 Eldorado Conv
1980 Eldorado H & E Conv
1993 Allante with Hardtop (X2)
2008 DTS
2012 CTS Coupe
2017 XT
1956 Thunderbird
1966 Olds Toronado

Steve Passmore

#10
Quote from: The Tassie Devil(le) on February 14, 2017, 06:04:36 PM
I find it hard to believe that the damage to the front seat could have been done in just 58,000 miles of use.   Unless the owner drove it a mile every time, and got in and out of it every time.   Or, was wearing a holstered gun on his left side. ;)

Bruce. >:D

I have to agree that if the mileage is correct something traumatic must have happened to that drivers seat. I have re-trimmed dozens of cars and they are usually well over 100,000 miles before that kind of wear.  Maybe he weighed 450 lbs? :o
Steve

Present
1937 60 convertible coupe
1941 62 convertible coupe
1941 62 coupe

Previous
1936 70 Sport coupe
1937 85 series V12 sedan
1938 60 coupe
1938 50 coupe
1939 60S
1940 62 coupe
1941 62 convertible coupe x2
1941 61 coupe
1941 61 sedan x2
1941 62 sedan x2
1947 62 sedan
1959 62 coupe

Carl Fielding

#11
If you look at the only pic showing any pedal at all , that and the light heel wear at the gas pedal / carpet transition, is indicative of WAY less than 100 k mi +. Seat damage is unusual , and confined to a relatively small area. No other high usage indications. Either some strange acrobatics on ingress or/and egress , perhaps some peculiar physique or posture priorities mitigated for stress inducing ergonomics. Or a one time accident which ripped the seat , reducing the structural integrity, etc. or any other thing. That damage is not concentrated normal wear. Something abnormal was taking place. Do not base miles on that. I am looking for other clues , and can see it as a 58,000 mile car? Yes , the car could use some TLC , languishing loveless in the garage. Also from the little I can see of the rubber seals they appear a bit cracked , but extremely dirty. This car has been denied affection for quite some time. Look , here is a potential solution: Laurent Lagineau will be arriving to L.A. in about ten days on a risky Cadillac hunt. How about selling it to him at the $5000 or $6000 figure percolating around. Charming French social worker who has devoted his career to helping those in need. Why not help him in getting this grand old Cadillac. He will treasure it and love it , and lavish inordinate TLC upon it. Help our friend out in his hour of need. It may save him heartache and/or an unpleasant experience in our Fair Land. Give him the hospitality he needs and deserves , and send them both back to The Continent avec amour. I am sure that Laurent would be delighted to host his benefactors to a truely marvelous time in the most friendly Eastern part of France. If you have not yet , please see the story unfolding by TheFrenchGuy under General Discussion. If further charity is deemed warranted, further contribution , distributed from the proceeds to any of a number of worthy causes would be welcome, I am sure. What do you say ?  - Carl

P.S. : Does M'damme speak French ? I picture a potentially delightful encounter.

jdemerson

As the owner of an older Cadillac with 66,000 miles. I'm inclined to think that Jim Crabtree, who has inspected this Eldorado and has seen maintenance records, has the mileage right at 58,000. There must be a story about the seat damage, which Jim has documented clearly in two photos posted. Possibly he can get that background from the widow.

I always enjoy Carl Fielding's posts. He's generally right about things, and my guess is that is the case with this one. We are likely to know, eventually, as the difference between 58,000 and 158,000 is something like 172%. Looked at slightly differently, 158,000 is 272% of 58,000. We're talking about substance, not minutia.

Jim, I hope you will weigh in again, especially if you can get more information on the seat damage, which is certainly NOT the typical high-mileage wear on the lower cushion. And let's all stay friends -- no-one is accusing anyone of fraud here.

John Emerson
Middlebury, VT
John Emerson
Middlebury, Vermont
CLC member #26790
1952 Series 6219X
http://bit.ly/21AGnvn

Jeff Rosansky CLC #28373

I hate to admit it, but my seats look like that-front and back.
50K miles but the car sat in the sun for years. Most things on the car indicate a true 50k but the sun did it's damage.
Don't judge the car on its seats alone.

By the way, if anybody has seats for a 70, let me know.
Jeff
Jeff Rosansky
CLC #28373
1970 Coupe DeVille (Big Red)
1955 Series 62 (Baby Blue)
Dad's new 1979 Coupe DeVille

TMoore - NTCLC

I have not seen the car in person, but I could easily see that kind of seat wear being the result of parking in a tight garage and not being able to fully open the door - ingress and egress could put considerable strain on that vertical portion of the seat back, unlike the typical seat cushion and bolster wear seen from many miles of the seat being occupied.  I am not saying I agree with the price, but I do believe that based on everything else people have pointed out, the mileage could easily be correct, and the seat wear could have a number of plausible explanations.

G Pennington

The NADA Classic Car Value Guide shows it to be worth $6850.  That's for the "Low Retail Value", which seems to fit according to the descriptions.  The NADA guide doesn't use mileage.  I would add a little more since it's a California car (rust free?).
Gary Pennington
   1953 6267X Convertible
   1941 6267D Convertible (2 door)

Carl Fielding

#16
Jim , by "NOT profiting in any manner" , you are a far better man than I . I'm a mean , nasty, greedy guy who always tries to squeeze a meal out of deals I facilitate. From both parties ! What a jerk , huh ? Any way , as I say , I see no reason to assume the indicated mileage has suffered previous turnover. And you gave an admirable , if justifiably emotional , defense. Don't take things so seriously on a forum. Communication shared this way is rather one dimensional, and lacks a certain "damping factor". Modulation ranging from strong , through subtle, to subliminal, is slim to none compared to verbal. So , as John asks (by the way , John , thank you for the kind words. I am very greatful to be able to provide enjoyable reading to those who endure my somewhat pompous prolix) , yes , please do chime in again here. I myself am a bit of a lonely old man , having now outlived over 1/2 of my very best , oldest friends. That is one reason I find these precious old car forums so satisfying. If you are old enough , and/or acculturated into the idiom of some of our wonderful, incredibly verbally gifted and creative dear brother and sister fellow countrymen and countrywomen , I call attention to the the following soothing truism : in the words of the late , great Joe Tex "One monkey don't stop no show".

Say , Jim if you are still passing by this forum from time to time , and have suffered my babbling thus far , could you please give me a call ? This long weekend would be great for me , as the workload is light. Of course , I welcome calls at any time from CLC members. Jim you and I are in the same time zone , and I love meeting Cadillac folk in person. I am pleased to report I am feeling considerably better after my latest trip to the E.R. The cardiologists took me off one of my meds , and voila ! I feel like a spry 80 year old again ! Looks like they are going to finally give me clearance to get back to 'Vegas and my '27 Cad so I can begin my trip home. I will be spending some time in my beloved past domicile, L.A. , and would like to meet any CLC members who can put up with me. Though some do recognize me for the self described jerk that I am , some suffer me gladly. And besides I enjoy giving 1927 Cadillac driving lessons. Ask anyone who has driven my '24 and/or '27. If any of you all will be along my re-entry path , let me know. 'Vegas - So Cal - up the Coast to Washington. Departure : before Nevada and Cal warm up , but after the deluge. ETA Wash : before my 73rd birthday , which coincidentally is Argentine Independence Day. I am also exactly 3 years older than Orinthal who should have found out many years ago that one monkey.          Thanks for letting me grandstand. I hope you enjoy it as much as I have. Thanks to John for inspiration.     Carl , 408-621-8261  - Please try 'til you get me

Carl Fielding

#17
STATUS UPDATE , PLEASE. I see we have had a fairly high view count here. I hope Jim is not upset. In fact I hope no one is upset. We don't deserve that. Please read my last piece of creative writing above , and I hope any brandished hatchets are now subterranean. CC

Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621

#18
Right at the outset, the car has a litany of issues already confessed; I can only imagine what other surprises lay in store for the next owner which could easily run to $10K by the time all's said and done as it is obvious the car has been out of service and neglected for some time. Of course none of this takes into account any cosmetics that need to be addressed.

What is high retail for the car completely sorted? On a good day perhaps $15K - $20K with every stretch of the imagination?

Mileage correct or not, I concur with Bob, I can see no more than $5K - $7K worth of property here as presented.

If the lady is sincere in her intentions to sell she should list it on eBay for $1 without reserve and let it rip. $12K is rather optimistic in my book but in auction land, almost anything can happen as we all know.

Incidentally I would NOT recommend this or any FWD Eldo for Laurent given his stated budgetary constraints.

A Cadillac Motorcar is a Possession for which there is no Acceptable Substitute

m-mman

#19
When buying or selling a car the “price” commonly involves more than just cash. EMOTION can often times be a HUGE part of the deal.

A new car dealer struggles to get a prospective buyer to ‘fall in love’ with the new model. They have to put the emotion into your heart before you part with the cash.

Do you want to acquire a very special car that somebody else loves very much and does not want to sell? First you need to emotionally convince the current owner that you will cherish the car as much as they do and that you are not interested in trying to flip it for a profit. Commonly this takes years of building a relationship with the owner. In the end transactions of this type commonly involve paying a cash price above “market value” to both pay off the emotional attachment that the current owner has, AND ensure that the buyer does not have a profit motive.

Sometimes the emotion attached to a car is negative (“I hate this thing!”) In those cases, the sales price will likely be very cheap and the ‘seller’ might even pay YOU to haul it away.

Emotion can also be a big part of a car deal when the car was attached to someone you love. In this situation this widow’s (second) husband bought the car new. It was a second marriage for her but they had still been together for 20+ years. Have you ever lost someone you love? After they die their possessions take on a ‘mantel of sacredness’. Questions race through your mind. Do you NEED to part with something? Do you HAVE to part with it? Should you even consider parting with it? Or should you keep it as a tender memory of them??? Her husband has only been gone about 10-11 months, her head is still spinning.

There is another element related to this particular car. He bought it new and during his ownership it became a ‘classic’. In the papers he had collected related to the car, were many magazine articles and books (with appropriate chapters marked) telling the tale of Cadillac’s entry into the personal luxury market in 1967 with the beautifully styled front wheel drive car, blah, blah, blah . . . You have all familiar with these pieces. Because of all this reporting, the dead husband came to believe (determine?) that his 1968 El Dorado was worth $20,000 minimum, guaranteed.

Throughout their entire marriage she had been repeatedly told that sitting in their garage was something that could at any time be quickly and easily traded for 200 $100 bills. The car was like money in the bank. A check that she could cash at any time. . . . 

Was this true? No! of course not. WE all know that this car is not worth $20,000 . . .  BUT for the last 20 years she has been told repeatedly that it is.

I met her in a grief group that I help facilitate. Sadness after a loss is easy to understand but the emotions of having to deal with ‘the stuff’ is commonly not understood or appreciated. One night during our discussions she mentioned that she had an “old Cadillac” that she wanted to sell. She thought it was a 1961. She knew it was a 2 door, but the words Coupe De Ville she did not recognize. When I said El Dorado her face lit up and said Yeah! That it!  A 61 El Dorado? She said that it wasn’t a convertible so what was it? That’s when I made arrangements to go to her house and took the pictures I posted.

I have no need or interest in a 1968 El Dorado. (but there is sure enough people around here who talk about them) I would like to BOTH help this widow honor her husband by finding a good home for his car and help a collector get a car that they might enjoy. As mentioned before I know that $20k is ridiculous. When I told her that $10,000 would be the absolute max that anybody would actually pay (and that would be stretching it) her face dropped. (yes I do know that the market value is closer to the $6000 - $7000 range) Remember she had been told for years that it was guaranteed to be worth $20,000.

She now had to try to decide. Was I telling her the truth OR was I a scoundrel trying to rip off an old widow?  Since I see her regularly in the grief group, I did NOT want to become a scoundrel to her. It took 20 or more minutes of struggle to reestablish myself as a knowledgeable car expert who was just trying to give her good information. I did not enjoy being the person to burst her bubble. I did not enjoy having to establish and justify my expertise in a negotiation over a car that I have no real interest in. (Yes, if it HAD been a 1961 El Dorado I would have bought it!)  This is when she came back with what SHE though was the giveaway price of $12,000. I made no other offer to her. Instead I came to this board to tell all of you about it in the hope that it can find a good home.

Might she eventually sell it for $6,000-$7,000? Probably. However, the last thing I want to do is be the person to do all the work to educate her on the car’s true value. I have done that before, don’t have time to do it again.  I do not want to be the one to “wear her down” to get a good deal.

I have been buying collector cars for 40+ years. I have experienced buying barn finds, I have experienced buying one owner cars from little old ladies. I have experienced getting the good deals, I do not need to do that again. (in 1978 I even got a FREE 1959 Cad series 62 convertible and drove it home 100 miles. It needed a replacement top and some upholstery work)

Ever see cars at a dealer or at an auction that are original one owner with all the papers? Ever see cars on ebay that are original owner, fully documented cars? Do you ever wish that YOU could be the person who made the virginal deal with the actual original owner?

My hope was that perhaps someone in the CLC world might like to buy an ‘original owner’ car from an ‘old lady’ and have the pleasure of getting to know her and negotiating with her and in the end having a great story to tell.

YES! IT WILL TAKE NEGOTIATION to buy the car at the market price!!

If your would rather just buy from a dealer, there is currently a 68 El Dorado on ebay for $10,000. The dealer says it has ‘just’ 95,000 miles. In case you can’t tell, THIS is what a 150,000-mile car looks like!
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1968-Cadillac-Eldorado-Runs-Drives-Body-Int-Good-472V8-3spd-auto-/391701473464?forcerrptr=true&hash=item5b333a28b8:g:PIAAAOSw4CFYngdQ&item=391701473464

YES! You might even have to pay a little above the market price to buy off her emotional interest in the car. But isn’t this what car collecting is all about? I always thought it was.

But I am becoming older, in my mind collector cars were not always about money, flipping and profit. But maybe the car hobby just isn’t what it was 20 to 30 years ago.
1929 341B Town Sedan
1971 Miller-Meteor Lifeliner ambulance
Other non-Cadillac cars
Near Los Angeles, California

CLC #29634