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1941 exterior door handle securing pin

Started by Don Wilson, March 08, 2017, 02:06:25 PM

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Don Wilson

About 5 days ago when I closed the driver's side door of my '41 Cadi, the exterior door handle came flying off on to my driveway. To make a long story short, I was unable to find it. I removed the passenger side exterior door handle to see what it was like. I was surprised  to discover that it wasn't of the standard set screw design I had expected, but was a taper pin with the end that was not tapered having the screw threads. The hole in the shaft was large enough to accommodate the taper but not large enough to allow it to pass all the way through, apparently designed for the tapered end of the pen to tighten into the non-threaded hole in the handle shaft; the threads were very worn, but would still tighten into whatever on the passenger side. I immediately tried to use the pin on the driver side to install the handle, but the screw would not tighten; apparently the threads on the driver side latch mechanism were stripped too much for the poor condition threads of the screw to catch and hold. I didn't try any more  to use the screw on the driver's side, but later re-installed it on the passenger side.

While inspecting the other doors, I noticed that one of the back door handles was secured very well with what looks to be a cross head countersunk sheet metal screw, with the head small enough to clear the access hole and allow the handle to turn and open the door. I attempted to remove the screw to see its size and see how it had been modified to properly do the job; unfortunately, it would not come out without applying more torque than what I thought advisable. I decided it was better to leave it alone.

I decided to try a modified sheet metal screw on the driver's side. I used a steel sheet metal screw with threads that would screw into the hole of the shaft and hold well, then cut its overall length to match the overall length of the passenger side taper pin; after this I filed the head down enough to pass through the access hole and filed what would otherwise be the threaded portion of the pin to a diameter less than the diameter of the threads. Unfortunately, when I tried this screw out, it wouldn't screw in far enough for the head to clear the access hole, so I kept shortening it until it would screw all the way in and allow the handle to turn and unlatch the door. I think that the original taper pin broke off in the threaded part of the latch mechanism is what caused me to have to keep shortening the pin. It seems to hold the door handle securely in the door, but because the screw is not tapered to a larger diameter at the head, it wiggles undesirably in the outer sheet metal hole of the door. I think this wiggle can be cured by removing this modified sheet metal screw and modifying it more by placing a hollowed cone over the screw near the head to tighten on the shaft hole as the screw is tightened by its threads. Short of getting a used taper pin and hoping the door latch threads will hold, does anyone know of a better solution. I keep thinking of the cross head screw I observed in the back door that seems to work very well. If anyone knows where such a taper pin can be bought, please let me know.

Thanks, Don Wilson
I am a happy owner of a beautiful 1941 Cadillac Series 63 which I purchased in 2009. I have visited your forum a few times this year and found some very useful technical information just by doing that, but still have questions unanswered. I have also read questions on the forum that for which I think I can provide answers, I also have some questions about the terminology used in this profile form.

Steve Passmore

Bobs Automobilia.

bobsautomobilia.com/handles-and-knobs/page-4/
Steve

Present
1937 60 convertible coupe
1941 62 convertible coupe
1941 62 coupe

Previous
1936 70 Sport coupe
1937 85 series V12 sedan
1938 60 coupe
1938 50 coupe
1939 60S
1940 62 coupe
1941 62 convertible coupe x2
1941 61 coupe
1941 61 sedan x2
1941 62 sedan x2
1947 62 sedan
1959 62 coupe

Don Wilson

Thanks very much, Steve. I will give that cite a try
I am a happy owner of a beautiful 1941 Cadillac Series 63 which I purchased in 2009. I have visited your forum a few times this year and found some very useful technical information just by doing that, but still have questions unanswered. I have also read questions on the forum that for which I think I can provide answers, I also have some questions about the terminology used in this profile form.

Jeff Hansen

#3
Don,

Try this link at Bob's:  http://bobsautomobilia.com/handles-and-knobs/outside-door-handle-retaining-screw-1933-49.-rs-339/

Also available at Restoration Specialties in PA.  Their part number 1071.  On page 187 of their online catalog:
http://www.restorationspecialties.com/2015Catalog/187.pdf

HTH,
Jeff

edit by Jeff: add additional link.
Jeff Hansen
1941 6019S Sixty Special
1942 7533 Imperial Sedan

Brad Ipsen CLC #737

Depending on the condition of the threaded brass piece in the latch you may want to starting looking for a good complete latch assemble.  For your info a 1940 will not work.  You would have thought since this was a new body in 1940 that Cadillac would not have changed the latch one year later but they did.  The lock linkage in it changed.  The drivers door is the one that get the wear so this is a problem finding a good one.
Brad Ipsen
1940 Cadillac 60S
1938 Cadillac 9039
1940 Cadillac 6267
1940 LaSalle 5227
1949 Cadillac 6237X
1940 Cadillac 60S Limo

Whit Otis, 1188

Restoration Specialties and Supply in Pennsylvania has the screws as well.  If you only need one I have an extra and you can have one free and avoid the shipping cost. Let me know
Whit
1188
Whit Otis -
1941 6219D Custom
1941 6219D
1940 7533F
1986 Mercedes Benz 560 SEL
1999 Bentley Arnage
2019 XT5
Drawing of AP Sloan Custom by Terry Wenger

Don Wilson

I want to thank all of you who took the time to offer your advice about this. Steve was first responder with the reference to bobsauto mobilia.com for the taper pin set screw; I went there and ordered right away, before seeing the other replies, but all of you were right on it with good advice very quickly.
    Bob Ipsen alerted me to the fact that the latch screw threads are brass and likely stripped out; he was right about that and is probably right that a driver's side latch with good screw threads would likely be hard to find. Therefore, after finding that even the new screws wouldn't hold, I decided to wait about trying to find a latch with good threads until after exhausting my own efforts with use of the modified sheet metal screw.
    With a little more effort, I was able to virtually eliminate the wiggle of the handle by tightening the shaft bezel in the door skin metal with a sturdy tape wrapped around bezel until it was secure, and the tape didn't show, either. I tested the hold of the sheet metal screw more severely this time. I think it is a safe solution if I periodically test and tighten.
    If anyone with this same problem would be so desperate, you should know that the screw needn't screw far into the latch part, but only be long enough to screw through the door handle securely. My modified screw only protrudes maybe .05 to .10 inch beyond the shaft hole to engage the part it is to turn with some force when the countersunk head also engages the shaft hole with some force on the other side, and clears the door access hole enough for the door handle to turn and retract the latch bolt.
    Note that the sheet metal screw can be mostly selected for tightening into the shaft hole, head filed down to fit through the access hole after it engages the shaft hole securely, and then shortened to what appears to be the right length to secure the end of the screw against the turning latch part. Note that shortening the screw is the last part of this process; to avoid damaging the threads while filing the head down, torque the screw through the hole of the shaft before shortening it, leaving enough length to file the head down as necessary for clearance through the access hole. Then torque the screw further until the taper of the modified head engages the shaft hole snuggly. At this point make the judgement if the head would clear the access hole enough to rotate clearly with the rotation of the handle. Then, with the screw securely in the handle hole, cut off the pointed end of the screw leaving about 0.10 inch protruding past the shaft hole and file that end to a point that will wedge into the hole of the latch part that turns to retract the latch bolt. Now remove the modified screw, insert the handle shaft into the door latch, and try anchoring it with the modified sheet metal screw. Most likely, the head of the screw will not clear the access hole enough for the handle to turn sufficiently. Remove the screw and shorten the pointed end (using the handle shaft hole to hold it while filing), and try again. Keep this shortening process up until you can retract the latch bolt sufficiently to open the door. If the handle seems secure enough, but wiggles, take the wiggle out by tightening the shaft bezel in the door skin using tape wrapped around it to hold it tightly in the hole and not show before installing the door handle again. It worked for me! Good luck if you try it.
               Don Wilson




I am a happy owner of a beautiful 1941 Cadillac Series 63 which I purchased in 2009. I have visited your forum a few times this year and found some very useful technical information just by doing that, but still have questions unanswered. I have also read questions on the forum that for which I think I can provide answers, I also have some questions about the terminology used in this profile form.

Paul Phillips

Don
Glad you solved your issue. FYI and for others, the tapered head screw should have an 8-32 thread to match to the tapped hole in the shaft for the handle. The taper head makes sure this snugs up in the boss of the latch assembly. Sometimes the screw will also seize in the shaft when you want to remove it.  In that situation you need a magic liquid like AeroKroil to try to get it free. Worst case, cut the door handle steel shaft with a die grinder or hacksaw so you can take the latch out and drill out the screw.  The handle shaft can then be welded back together an reused.

Paul
Paul Phillips CLC#27214
1941 60 Special (6019S)
1949 60 Special (6069X)
1937 Packard Super 8 Convertible Victoria
1910 Oakland Model 24 Runabout

z3skybolt

I just bought 8 of them!

Only wanted two. But they would not accept an order of less than $20.00. So I had to buy eight. Anyone needing a couple? I will give away 4 of them. Will send them postage free.  So much fun....these pre-war cars>

bob
1940 LaSalle 5227 Coupe(purchased May 2016)
1985 Lincoln Town Car Signature Series. Bought New.