Cadillac & LaSalle Club Discussion Forum

Cadillac & LaSalle Club Forums => General Discussion => Topic started by: Brian Laurance on November 21, 2006, 11:54:06 AM

Title: Ordering the New Motorama Book
Post by: Brian Laurance on November 21, 2006, 11:54:06 AM
Im hoping that Charles Barnette and others will see and reply to this topic.  I may be somewhat pre-mature in posing the question, but am looking ahead to purchase some Christmas gifts.

Is it possible to pre-order the new Motorama book?  Any information regarding pricing, availability, and ordering would be appreciated.

Thanks in advance for your replies.  Im sure that many of us are eagerly awaiting this book.
Title: Re: Ordering the New Motorama Book
Post by: Charles D. Barnette #1465 on November 21, 2006, 12:48:12 PM
Thanks for the opportunity to repond. As you know I did some volunteer research work for this book on the Cadillac section. It covers all Motorama vehicles, and I can give it a thumbs up on every aspect of a published book well written by a dedicated author. It can be pre-ordered through Amazon.com, Motorbooks.com, BarnesandNoble.com, or any other major book retailers website. Motorbooks International is the publisher, and it should be on the shelves by December 7, 2006, or a few days later. The exact title is "GMs Motorama-The Glamorous Show Cars of a Cultural Phenomena" by David Temple. This will make the best Christmas gift ever for those that love cars! It is the Bible of Motorama! Charles D. Barnette
Title: Shop Around
Post by: Tommy L on November 21, 2006, 01:15:34 PM
Amazon has the best price with a lowest price guarantee.  Ive asked my local Library to order.
 
GMs Motorama: The Glamorous Show Cars of a Cultural Phenomenon by David Temple, Chuck Jordan, Dennis Adler, and David E. Davis (Hardcover - Dec 15, 2006)
 
Buy new:  $26.40
Available for Pre-order
 

Web Wombat Books
GMs Motorama: The Glamorous Show Cars of a Cultural Phenomenon
Type:   By David Temple & Dennis Adler $70.95  
Title: Motorama Book
Post by: Brian Laurance on November 21, 2006, 01:34:28 PM
Thank you for the replies.  Ive placed my order!
Title: Re: Ordering the New Motorama Book
Post by: Jim Jordan CLC # 5374 on November 21, 2006, 09:09:53 PM
I am anxiously awaiting my copy.  I was priveledged enough to see a pre published copy and, wow was I  impressed!  This book delves deep into the cars and their stories like nothing before.  I was a volunteer contributor with very minor contributions and got to see how hard David worked on this book with the help of other experts like our own Charles Barnette, the unrivaled expert of experts on the 1953 LeMans.  This is a book any car guy or gal will pick up and not want to put back down!
Title: Re: Ordering the New Motorama Book
Post by: Jim Jordan on November 28, 2006, 07:33:32 PM
Got my copy today and I must sau it is INCREDIBLE.  This book is great.  It has many never before seen photos and lots and lots of details.  Applause goes to CLC member David Temple for his hard work and dedication to this project.  This is a great Christmas present for any car person.  Now we just need to get to work on the 2nd edition by discovering the show cars like the 53 Orleans, 4th 53 LeMans, Park avenue, etc.  This book is an absolute must have!
Title: GREAT New Motorama Book
Post by: Ralph Messina CLC 4937 on November 29, 2006, 04:40:08 PM
I second Jim’s comments. It’s a beautiful book with many heretofore unseen photos. The sad note is that GM didn’t think enough of the Dreamcars to take a lot more color photos documenting them. Thank you, David Temple for a great book and Charles Barnett for bringing it to our attention.

Ralph
Title: Reflections on LeMans Research
Post by: Charles D. Barnette #1465 on November 29, 2006, 06:37:38 PM
As a volunteer researcher on this book, I have many rewards in seeing the book finally making it into print. Working with the author was a dream come true as we worked together as a well oiled machine especially with the research on the 1953 LeMans. Now that the book is published let me list the many items we uncovered during this time which are now in the book. First of all in talking with John Crowell it was established that the Barris car was indeed LeMans No.one when Johns bill of sale showed serial number 02. This was a shouting moment. Unfortunately this was the Motorama LeMans that burned in 1985 and is no more. Next in regard to the black LeMans No. two, it led us from the Glidden Tour in Ohio to Oklahoma City where we met fellow CLC member Jim Jordan. We nicknamed the car "Raven" to help us keep the 4 LeMans straight. We were given the picture of "Raven" in front of a building with no dome, and from the flagpole David made a quantum leap to Oklahoma City where "Raven" apperaed in the Oil Progress Parade and at Greenlease-Moore dealership and then literally fell off the face of the earth after November of 1953. In regard to LeMans No. three we always suspected it to be the Floyd Akers LeMans, but had no proof. We nicknamed it "Wallflower", because it has led such a secretive life for the most part. When David and I uncovered the Washington DC certificate of title listing the car as serial No 04 that meant we had our proof that the Akers car was indeed LeMans No 3-another shouting moment! Finally all writers ahead of David had mentioned a road test for the LeMans to be found in Motor Trend but none ever gave where in Motor Trend. Usually one can find links to all Road Tests conducted by Motor Trend but none could ever be found for LeMans. Out of sheer frustration we ordered every monthly issue of the 1953 Motor Trend and found same in the October issue. However the test was done by Detroit Auto Dealers and not by Motor Trend. Motor Trend was simply reporting on what the dealers found not something Motor Trend was doing. This is why we could never find a reference to a Motor Trend test. This was another shouting moment! Charles D. Barnette    
Title: Re: Motor Trend Correction
Post by: Charlea D. Barnette on November 30, 2006, 10:39:24 AM
The LeMans was made available for driving to Detroit newsmen (not car dealers) at the GM Proving Ground as stated in the regular monthly series entitled "Spotlight on Detroit". See page 11 of the October 1953 Motor Trend issue. Can you imagine letting a bunch of newsmen behind the wheel of a masterpiece? Additional high shouting moments in our research occurred when we found the actual, physical location of Wallflower-LeMans No. Three- although we are unable to disclose the exact location at this time per the owners wishes. She is alive and well and perhaps the last remaining near stock version of LeMans. I predict that it is only a matter of time as to when Wallflower will shed her cocoon and burst onto the national automotive scene. Also we were able to find precious dash parts from LeMans Number one that had mistakenly been left behind after the sale of LeMans No. one to Mr. Crowell and therefore did not go through the fatal fire. Mr. Crowell still weeps to this day over the loss of this vehicle. We have Greg Wallace of GM to thank for GM to now own LeMans No four with its custom fins done by the factory in 1959. Why all the fuss over LeMans? It is because LeMans in my opinion was the first true "Dream Car" of Cadillac and not merely a fancy exercise done on a production Cadillac. Charles D. Barnette
Title: Re: Motor Trend Correction
Post by: Yann Saunders, CLC #12588 on November 30, 2006, 02:35:06 PM
I have some interesting (factory?) photos of a Le Mans taken on May 8, 1953. Could this be the GM Motorama Le Mans? The San Franciso venue had ended May 7, then the car was off to Dallas to be shown there, with others, as of May 16.

Considering the current hype about these four cars, and in view of the fact that David Temples "GM Motorama" book is now available (I just got mine from Amazon - superb book) perhaps they might be shown in a future edition of the Self Starter.  

I took these pics at the Design Studio, twelve years ago, in difficult lighting conditions (no flash and no "professional" equipment other than a tripod, a table and my old Minolta 35mm reflex.
Title: Re: Hocking
Post by: Charles D. Barnette on December 04, 2006, 06:14:48 PM
Yanns pictures contained the word "Hocking" inscribed on two of them and on one the date following this word as 5-8-53? What relevance if any does this word have with GM? Is it an emploee, a manufacturing plant name, a photographer, a building, or something else? If you know please advise.
Title: Re: Hocking
Post by: David Temple, #22317 on December 04, 2006, 07:18:22 PM
Hocking is very likely the last name of the photographer with GM Photographic Services who took the photos. I have not run across his name in the past - at least not that I can recall - although I do commonly find names on original GM archival photos.
Title: Production Car Displays at the Motoramas
Post by: Brian Laurance on December 04, 2006, 08:34:27 PM
I received my copy of the book today, and it is truly spectacular.  I cannot wait for the opportunity to sit down and read it cover to cover.  

David, I realize that the focus of this project was the various, non-production show cars.  Im curious whether, during the course of your research, you located many photos of the standard production car displays at the various Motoramas.  The book includes a few, overall photos of some of the Motoramas.  I have a particular interest in the 1959 Motoramas, and would love to find photos showing the various passenger car displays (for all divisions), styling dioramas, and the cars displayed on the "grasshopper" arms.  Do you know if such photos exist?  
Title: Re: Selling?
Post by: Bruce Reynolds # 18992 on December 04, 2006, 10:50:21 PM
Could it be a reference to GM Selling something?

Hocking is another name for Selling.

Bruce,
The Tassie Devil(le),
60 CDV
Title: Re: Production Car Displays at the Motoramas
Post by: David Temple, #22317 on December 04, 2006, 11:02:42 PM
Bruce Berghoff probably has some the photos of the production cars at the 1959 Motorama. Several such photos appear in his book, "The GM Motorama" published in 1995. GM Media Archive likely has some as well. -- David
Title: Re: Production Car Displays at the Motoramas
Post by: Yann Saunders, CLC #12588 on December 05, 2006, 07:42:57 AM
Ive been scouring Cadillac archives for a half century and only ever came across a couple of (color) pics of the 1959 productions cars from the GM Motorama (Boston venue, I believe).  I got copies of them from my Swiss buddy and fellow CLC member, J.-M. Roux. I put them in the Cadillac Database some time back: www.car-nection.com/yann/Dbas_txt/FACTM-P.HTM

The cars of GMs five brands that were displayed on the grasshopper, all appear to have been white (you can see them in the video about the Motoramas).  There is a white car in the pics to which Im referring, but it is not on one of the grasshopper arms. The models seem to be a Georgian Blue or Argyle Blue "Series 62" convertible, a black "Series 60 Special" sedan and a white "DeVille" model (you cant tell from the angle at which the photos were snapped if its a coupe or a sedan)
Title: Re: Hocking
Post by: Yann Saunders, CLC #12588 on December 05, 2006, 07:48:59 AM
Basing my conclusion on the fact that all factory photos I have of Cadillacs carry a name (in block letters) and the date when the photo was taken, I assume that "Hocking" was another Cadillac staff photographer in the 50s, as were also "LaRue" and "Madler" (the latter two names appear frequently on Cadillac photos).
Title: Re: Production Car Displays at the Motoramas
Post by: Brian Laurance on December 05, 2006, 12:07:25 PM
David and Yann, thank you both for your replies and information.
Title: Re: Shop Around
Post by: Richard Goulden on December 08, 2006, 01:03:55 AM
Thanks for the tip guys, my Amazon ordered copy arrived in my mailbox here in New Zealand this morning, great read.
Title: Re: Grasshopper Arms
Post by: Jack McClow CLC #15840 on December 08, 2006, 11:08:58 AM
Just wanted to make sure everybody who might be interested has seen the video of the 1955 Motorama I had mentioned in a post in early October.  It can be found on the www.youtube.com  site..... once there, go to the search function (top right corner of the screen) and type in 1955 GM Motorama .......... it is a five minute video with a minute or so of the cars being displayed on the grasshopper arms mentioned earlier in this string.  Make sure your speakers are turned on.
Title: RUN do not walk to get this book!
Post by: Lucas F. CLC #15674 on December 26, 2006, 07:50:09 PM
I just finished flipping through this book (which was a Christmas present to myself since no one in my family has the imagination to get this book).

It is absolutely fabulous! I have not read a word of text except Chuck Jordans foreword (Mr. Jordan is one of my automotive idols since he designed my beautiful 1963 Cadillac). The pictures alone, many of which I have never seen before, are more than worth the price of the book. Caadillac is prominently featured but I aalso enjoyed the sections on all the other GM lines including the GMC Truck Division.

Anyone who is interested in the "Dreamcars" and in the incredible imagination and optimism that characterized car design and General Motors in the late 1940s and 50s must add this book to their automotive library. I am very pleased with this book!

Happy New Year to everyone!

Lucas F. CLC #15674
1963 Series 62 convertible
Title: Re: Motorama Book
Post by: Mike Josephic #3877 on December 26, 2006, 08:18:35 PM
The book is now available -- Ive had my copy for several weeks.
Just log on to Amazon.com and you can have it shipped today.  Mike
Title: Re: Reflections on LeMans Research
Post by: Pat on January 26, 2007, 12:04:39 PM
I recently saw the Buddy Holly story with Gary Busey.  In the movie, he is sitting in a front bench seat Cadillac convertible with no rear seat and a tonneau cover in a NY Cadillac dealership with a 57/58 Eldorado Brougham in the background, any idea what Cadillac model it was?
Title: Re: Reflections on LeMans Research
Post by: Yann Saunders, CLC #12588 on January 26, 2007, 01:32:08 PM
The car you saw in the movie is the Goodman "Le Mans". I believe it is currently in the Cadillac Historical Collection.
Title: Re: Reflections on LeMans Research
Post by: Charles D. Barnette #1465 on January 27, 2007, 01:19:48 PM
I agree with Yann, it is indeed the Cadillac LeMans number 4 which had a factory remake in 1959 with quad headlights and fins. It is the "poster child" for the four LeMans made. Charles D. Barnette
Title: Question for Yann?
Post by: Charles D. Barnette #1465 on January 27, 2007, 01:26:47 PM
Yann on the Cadillac website you have several pictures of wheelcovers. One of them under "Custom Wheels for Show Cars" is the center disc for the Cadillac LeMans. Did this disc come off one of the LeMans and if so which one? What is the origin of the wheel disc picture of LeMans on our website? Thanks, Charles D. Barnette
Title: Re: Shop Around on AMAZON
Post by: mark maron on January 27, 2007, 02:15:03 PM
Just got it new for 19.88 on amazon
Title: Re: Reflections on LeMans Research
Post by: David Temple on January 27, 2007, 05:43:24 PM
The car in that movie was number four of four 1953 Cadillac Le Mans show cars built. Le Mans number four was originally built for James Goodman who headed Fisher Body. The car was updated in late 1958/early 1959 with a 1959 Cadillac 390 and had several cosmetic changes done to it. This Le Mans is now part of the GM Heritage Center collection. At the time the movie about Buddy Holly was made, the car was owned by James Goodmans son, Jack.
Title: Re: Question for Yann?
Post by: Yann Saunders, CLC #12588 on January 27, 2007, 07:34:35 PM
To be quite honest, Charles, I dont rememember. There are some 40,000 images in my archives, its hard to memorize them all.  Its certainly been cropped (by me) from another document but I cant remember which one, nor when.  I suspect it may be from the Goodman car.
Title: Re: Reflections on LeMans Research
Post by: Pat on January 31, 2007, 07:51:03 AM
Is it still considered a 53 Cadillac with a 53 VIN and body tag?

Pat


Quote from: David TempleThe car in that movie was number four of four 1953 Cadillac Le Mans show cars built. Le Mans number four was originally built for James Goodman who headed Fisher Body. The car was updated in late 1958/early 1959 with a 1959 Cadillac 390 and had several cosmetic changes done to it. This Le Mans is now part of the GM Heritage Center collection. At the time the movie about Buddy Holly was made, the car was owned by James Goodmans son, Jack.
Title: Re: Reflections on LeMans Research
Post by: David Temple #22,317 on January 31, 2007, 03:01:15 PM
Thats an interesting question. The original engine number for the fourth Le Mans was 5300 91300. To my knowledge there was no VIN tag on the body. According to the owner of the third Le Mans, there isnt one on his car so I can only assume none did. The original engine of Le Mans number four was changed to a 1959 390. Would the replacement engine have the original engine number stamped on it? Since the car must have been registered with its engine number, I guess a blank service block would have been used and the original number stamped on it. Thats my guess. Maybe Yann or someone else can tell us what would have been done in this case. When I began researching the history of the Le Mans I wondered the same thing. In fact, I once considered the possibility that only three were built rather than the reported four. My theory was that since the last Le Mans was upgraded with a new engine it might have been reserialed hence four serial numbers but only three cars. However, my research accounted for four actually being built.  David
Title: Re: Reflections on LeMans Research
Post by: Pat on January 31, 2007, 08:51:36 PM
Interesting!  Similar issue seems to exist with 57/58 Eldorado Broughams.  Were there 703 or 704 built.  See excerpts from Yanns Database.

1957 Eldorado Brougham
Car #2 was the THIRD Brougham built [chassis #5770-035764]. It was painted bright primrose yellow, a special color [code #0 on the original body tag] that was not included in either the regular color palette for 1957 nor on the special color palette for the new Brougham models. The late Cy Strickler, first President of the Brougham Owners Association (BOA) said the car was used for some time in Cadillacs Engineering Department (possibly as a second test car); it had a fuel injected engine. It appears to have been re-worked, re-painted black and mounted on 1958 chassis #58P-014243, to be sold in 1958 as Brougham #475.  Cy also listed it as belonging, in the late seventies, to Larry Muckey of Muskegon, MI.  At that time, it was reported to be still in fine condition. Larry owned also car #471 (he was of great help to me in piecing together the story of the 1956 Eldorado Brougham town car, special, Motorama model). Late Extra [8/2002] I got this message in the Cadillac Database "Visitors Book" from enthusiast Glen Durmisevich: I owned this car from 1978 to 1984. In addition to Cy Stricklers info, Body #2 had a 1958 VIN #58P014243. Door panels were labeled #475 [which fits the 1958 chassis number]. Previous owners include Francis J. Novak, Larry Muckey [noted above], Dr. Rick Zeiger, and myself. The car rode on springs. I sold it in 1984 to Fred Collins in California. I have photos after I painted this car and used it for my wedding. It would be great if you could send us a couple of them, Glen.


1958 Eldorado Brougham
Car #475 of the 1958 production began life as car #2 of the 1957 production run [see that entry].  This was as the THIRD Brougham built [chassis #5770-035764]. It was painted bright yellow, a special color [code #0 on the original body tag] that was not included in either the regular color palette for 1957 or the special color palette for the new Brougham models. It appears to have been re-worked, re-painted black and mounted on 1958 chassis #58P-014243, to be sold in 1958 as Brougham #475.  Cy also listed it as belonging, in the late seventies, to Larry Muckey of Muskegon, MI.  At that time, it was reported to be still in fine condition. Larry owned also car #471 (he was of great help to me in piecing together the story of the 1956 Eldorado Brougham town car, special, Motorama model). Late Extra [8/2002] I got this message in the Cadillac Database "Visitors Book" from enthusiast Glen Durmisevich: I owned this car from 1978 to 1984. In addition to Cy Stricklers info, Body #2 had a 1958 VIN #58P014243. Door panels were labeled #475 [which fits the 1958 chassis number]. Previous owners include Francis J. Novak, Larry Muckey [noted above], Dr. Rick Zeiger, and myself. The car rode on springs. I sold it in 1984 to Fred Collins in California. I have photos after I painted this car and used it for my wedding. It would be great if you could send us a couple of them, Glen.


Title: Re: Reflections on LeMans Research
Post by: Yann Saunders, CLC #12588 on February 01, 2007, 06:18:25 AM
A couple of 1957-58 Eldorado Brougham models have been modernised by their owners and retro-fitted with Cadillacs "Northstar" power plant. IMHO, these cars still are considered to be 1957 or 1958 Eldorado Broughams and (I assume) they still carry their original body tag. If sold however, the original VIN (engine number) could  NOT be listed on the title; that document would have to reflect the number of the actual engine in the car. I dont believe that US title documents ever include information taken from a cars body ID plate.

Considering Davids extensive and laudable research for the Motorama book [which is a MUST, guys] it seems obvious that FOUR "Le Mans" were built, not three.  Indeed, we have four VINs (engine numbers) from 1953, not three. The fact that Goodmans car was retro-fitted with a 59 power plant does not alter the fact that its a 53 "Le Mans".

Ive never had a close encounter with any "Le Mans" so I cant tell you if they carried a consecutively numbered body tag or not. Cadillac logic dictates that they SHOULD have been individually tagged if more than one were built.  Unfortunately, I am not privvy to the companys internal policy as regards the numbering of bodies of prototypes and show cars of this caliber.

Another thing to be factored in is that Mr. Earl appears to have had pretty much of a free rein when it came to building "custom" and "special custom" bodies for himself and his close associates. Nevertheless, any "running" car needs a power plant and ALL Cadillac engines are serial-numbered so that, ultimately, ANY "running" Cadillac has an individual VIN.

Initially, however, not ALL four "le Mans" were "running" cars although each one was assigned en engine number. So where does that leave us?