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Where did the 53 Eldo post go?

Started by Quentin Hall, December 29, 2017, 11:16:44 PM

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The Tassie Devil(le)

G'day Quentin,

In response to your last post, which I again removed, i did email you regarding the initial deletion this morning as soon as I deleted it.

If you did not receive the email, then you are using a different email address than the one posted against your profile.

A link to a 1 1/4 hour video of Jackson Pollock has nothing to do with the subject of the '53 Eldo in question.

Bruce. >:D
'72 Eldorado Convertible (LHD)
'70 Ranchero Squire (RHD)
'74 Chris Craft Gull Wing (SH)
'02 VX Series II Holden Commodore SS Sedan
(Past President Modified Chapter)

Past Cars of significance - to me
1935 Ford 3 Window Coupe
1936 Ford 5 Window Coupe
1937 Chevrolet Sports Coupe
1955 Chevrolet Convertible
1959 Ford Fairlane Ranch Wagon
1960 Cadillac CDV
1972 Cadillac Eldorado Coupe

johnregrus

Quote from: David King  (kz78hy) on December 31, 2017, 03:40:16 PM
I think it is cool he thought of our organization as good place to expose the available car.  The selling process was just starting after all.  A '53 Eldorado is an upper eshelon car in the whole hobby, not just the Cadillac world.

The collector crowd for this car will understand what it is and how hard they are to do and most likely not their first or 10th car restored.  So a smart and well to do pool of people will determine what the value of it is, and most likely very quietely so we won't know unless they are our close friends.

Unknown '53 Eldo's come out of darkness once every 2 years or so and with each one, the likelihood of another gets a lot smaller.

These cars have a long track record in the collector world and I agree with Quentin that they are very undervalued.  So the long view would be these cars have good legs from an investment perpective.

The initial pricing seemed high to me as well, but what do I know about '53 Eldo's other than they are in the same league as the Eldorado Brougham's and I do follow those pretty close.  Maybe that complete car with rust is not a 97k car, but it could be 85k car...  Whatever the number, it will be most likely be higher than the entire car cost and restoration budget for the majority of cars discussed here.

The national CLC provides this site and the least we should do is promote the club to potential new members with a positive experience.

David King

Noted collector Neil DeAtley passed away this past late summer and his 1953 Eldorado is going to be auctioned at Barrett Jackson in Arizona later this month. A very nice car that as I understand it has never been taken apart and has absolutely no rust. I'm anxious to see what it brings.
1958 Series 62
1956 Eldorado Biarritz

Quentin Hall

#22
Bruce, I respectfully disagree and point to the parallels brought up in the video which is all about the perceived value of a previously unknown artwork.
That is why I thought it prudent to post so that my friends could share in it.
Perhaps you should watch the first 5 mins and then report back as to whether you agree or disagree with what I said. It has everything to do with a previously unknown 53 Eldorado.
Here is the link once more.
https://youtu.be/7Zxqj2gjigU
53 Eldo #319
53 Eldo #412.
53 Eldo #433
57 Biarritz
53 series 62 conv
39 Sixty Special Custom
57 Biarritz

Quentin Hall

Here is my current email.
53eldorado.qhemail addresses not permitted
Ps if everybody looks really hard, at 2.11 there is a 59 Biarritz in the cabinet window.
53 Eldo #319
53 Eldo #412.
53 Eldo #433
57 Biarritz
53 series 62 conv
39 Sixty Special Custom
57 Biarritz

chrisntam

Quote from: Quentin Hall on December 31, 2017, 09:42:47 PM
Here is my current email.
53eldorado.qhemail addresses not permitted
Ps if everybody looks really hard, at 2.11 there is a 59 Biarritz in the cabinet window.

Clearly, Cadillac related!

;)
1970 Deville Convertible 
Dallas, Texas

Quentin Hall

Some randoms  from my phone to keep you all entertained. Note the prototype with flat belt line and Carson top.
53 Eldo #319
53 Eldo #412.
53 Eldo #433
57 Biarritz
53 series 62 conv
39 Sixty Special Custom
57 Biarritz

Quentin Hall

#26
A few nice period pics surfaced on Facebook this week that I haven’t seen previously.
53 Eldo #319
53 Eldo #412.
53 Eldo #433
57 Biarritz
53 series 62 conv
39 Sixty Special Custom
57 Biarritz

Duncan Fox

#27
Quote from: gouldsom on December 30, 2017, 02:48:16 AM
I was really enjoying that post, the classic dilemma, buy and restore or buy one that is original  or done at a much higher price.
I don't care what anyone says including Quentin, but the price of those cars is slowly coming down to earth, while the price of restoration just keeps going up.

I like Richard and Quentin was enjoying that post and waiting to see where it went. I didn’t expect it to disappear though.
It was a healthy discussion on why what I thought was a fire damaged  53 Eldo that had been left out in the junk yard unprotected to rot then “saved “ by someone who obviously never loved it enough to repair it, but now thought it to be worth almost a 100k. Things have moved on as Richard has eluded to. The prices of these cars and indeed  most 50’s Eldos in general has remained static as mentioned by Quentin. However parts exclusive to them have  reached new heights further adding to the restoration costs of basket cases as presented on this thread. The high end of the price range quoted is a 100 point concours car, and to turn our subject vehicle into that would require IMO at least $250 K resulting in a $350 investment. So even the average resto would gobble up $150K and the figures again just don’t work at $97K purchase. An average car isn’t worth $250K in todays market it would seem
For years a good quality American collector car that fell into the  rule of thumb of low production , expensive when new, sporty,  first of series  last of series etc performed well at about 10% per annum gain. I haven’t seen that for some time now.  NCRS quality mid year Corvettes struggle to get what they did 10 years ago. The US domestic collector car market in general has flattened off. Indeed it appears that the whole market has changed drastically of late. The big money is being invested elsewhere. European exotics ,  one off resto rods with late running gear are commanding prices way above their stock restored siblings Many older private collections have been broken up and scattered around ,combine that with cars that were once thought of as parts cars being  rebuilt and flipped on because the huge aftermarket parts  structure supplies everything to achieve that and you create a watered down marketplace and prices go soft.
So every 53 Eldo that comes out of the woodwork and is rebuilt by craftsman like Quentin further erodes into that particular market, and as a result it continues to remain flat or slowly sink as it has for at least the last 5 years with the exception of a spike in 2016 if there are more cars than buyers, and there are always 53 Eldos for sale. 59 Eldorado’s haven’t performed well lately either IMO despite all the hype around them they appear to have  flattened out  also.
My 28 Model A roadster is another example , today it is not worth restoring, I would invest almost twice its current value into it  and over capitalise it  . I’m better of just keeping it running without altering its patina In fact restored cars have become so cheap they are being used as donor cars for bodywork for a younger generation of Hot Rodders filling the void left by older owners.  There are running restored complete chassis all over the internet  that almost cant be given away. I mentioned Patina there is another trend appearing across the whole spectrum due to rising restoration costs. We see this in the Cadillac world, once that was unheard of.
Look at the 53 Corvette  as an example,  Americas first sports car. Why would a heavily disguised  6 cylinder powerglide 53 Chevy sedan  be worth $100k more than a concours 53 Eldorado ? Americas finest car.  Because the market perceives it differently than us. An Eldo isn’t exciting it doesn’t look like a sports car, it was always an older or wealthy mans car in period.  Their production figures were similar, so are their survivor rates but the Corvette has always been the better performer financially.
Then throw in all the late model muscle, offerings the “collector this and collector that” Corvettes Mopars Mustangs and even Cadillacs and a whole other chunk of potential collector car investment dollar is sucked up.
So….IMO, the market place is changing , restoration costs are climbing by the day, and a badly rotted but otherwise not too bad  53 Eldo just isn’t worth $97K , especially when we don’t even know if it had all its parts with it. A hundred thousand dollars buys an awful lot of restored car nowadays.
It used to be it didn’t matter what you spent , it was recoverable eventually. I don’t believe that to be the case any more.  Like Richard’s 59 Biarritz which I sold him years ago  you have got to love and want  the car so much that it doesn’t really matter about the money......or does it? 
1930 V16 roadster
2005 CTSV

Quentin Hall

I sometimes look at my body and calculate that I’ve spent $450 000 on food and alcohol over my lifetime  to get it to this point and “ this is how it looks” ?!?
Gym membership  and the time alone to repair my body would surely cost more than the likely chance of anyone wanting to spend their valuable time to spend the rest of their days with me. I’m spent.
I should have fasted and had I put that same money into bit coins a mere 18 months ago I would now own all the money in the world. Hindsight.
53 Eldo #319
53 Eldo #412.
53 Eldo #433
57 Biarritz
53 series 62 conv
39 Sixty Special Custom
57 Biarritz

Bobby B

Duncan,
A nicely written and logical piece. Parts prices for my '47 will also give you heart failure. It's a shame, because the car isn't worth 1/2 of what it was  less than 10 years ago. Just have to enjoy it and forget about the rest. And I also don't get the Resto-Mod thing, but to each his own. There were so many ships I could have jumped on years ago, but just thought they were fads, including "Bitcoins". Man, I'm just always last to the party   ::)
                                         Bobby
1947 Cadillac Series 62 Convertible Coupe
1968 Mustang Convertible
1973 Mustang Convertible
1969 Jaguar E-Type Roadster
1971 Datsun 240Z
1979 H-D FLH

Duncan Fox

Quote from: Quentin Hall on January 04, 2018, 05:05:02 PM
I sometimes look at my body and calculate that I’ve spent $450 000 on food and alcohol over my lifetime  to get it to this point and “ this is how it looks” ?!?
Gym membership  and the time alone to repair my body would surely cost more than the likely chance of anyone wanting to spend their valuable time to spend the rest of their days with me. I’m spent.
I should have fasted and had I put that same money into bit coins a mere 18 months ago I would now own all the money in the world. Hindsight.
Only Quentin Hall could have come up with that reply.... :)
1930 V16 roadster
2005 CTSV

Bobby B

Quote from: Duncan Fox on January 04, 2018, 05:44:12 PM
Only Quentin Hall could have come up with that reply.... :)

Yes, of course.... >:D
                        Bobby
1947 Cadillac Series 62 Convertible Coupe
1968 Mustang Convertible
1973 Mustang Convertible
1969 Jaguar E-Type Roadster
1971 Datsun 240Z
1979 H-D FLH

Quentin Hall

I don’t have to worry anymore. This just got this texted to me. I don’t even remember buying them. How lucky am I ?
My deposit on the Eldorado!!!
53 Eldo #319
53 Eldo #412.
53 Eldo #433
57 Biarritz
53 series 62 conv
39 Sixty Special Custom
57 Biarritz