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Darkest before the dawn.

Started by e.mason, January 01, 2018, 05:47:39 PM

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Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621

Quote from: The Tassie Devil(le) on January 04, 2018, 03:51:21 PM
Subary never made a totally 2 wheel drive vehicle.

There were many FWD Subaru cars. (Not 4WD or AWD).
A Cadillac Motorcar is a Possession for which there is no Acceptable Substitute

Cape Cod Fleetwood

Quote from: Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621 on January 04, 2018, 03:31:56 PM
I wonder what today's new car prices would have been if GM had to scratch for itself without the benefit of multibillion dollar bailout.  ???

*BOOM*  <mic drop>
There are 2 kinds of cars in the world, Cadillac and everything else....

The Present -1970 Fleetwood Brougham

The Past -
1996 Deville Concours
1987 Sedan De Ville "Commonwealth Edition"
1981 Coupe De Ville (8-6-4)
1976 Sedan De Ville
1975 Sedan De Ville

The Daily Driver and work slave -
2008 GMC Acadia SLT *options/all

Big Apple Caddy

Quote from: Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621 on January 04, 2018, 03:31:56 PM
I wonder what today's new car prices would have been if GM had to scratch for itself without the benefit of multibillion dollar bailout.

Tough to say but prices had been dropping in the market, far beyond just GM, before their bailout and the company would've wanted to try to remain price competitive going forward with or without bailout monies.

Big Apple Caddy

Quote from: The Tassie Devil(le) on January 04, 2018, 03:51:21 PM
The modern SUV's came about to the cheapness to build, simply because they didn't have to meet the stringent requirements of passenger carrying vehicles, which were 2 wheel drive.

I don't quite get the specific 2 wheel drive versus 4 wheel drive relevancy as both SUVs and cars can be either 2 wheel drive or 4 wheel drive.  Also, as Eric mentioned, Subaru has made 2 wheel drive vehicles.

e.mason

Quote from: WTL on January 04, 2018, 03:49:08 PM
I have a question -

When a lot of people talk about Cadillac, and talk about the sedans, they are talking about I suppose the 50s and 60s. 

What about the pre-war cars and design language?  They had several different designs, some termed sedan, some phaeton - I have never been exactly clear on it all, but I always thought a sedan had a trunk, with the rear window positioned in front and above the trunk - but those 30s cars, dare I say it, you could design one with a tailgate like a crossover.  I don't know if they could incorporate cues from that era, given the radical differences in so much, including safety requirements, but I do wonder from time to time if a crossover that wasn't built like crap (like a pt cruiser), but that was graceful and had ample odes to the 30s cars would be a exciting direction,. 

How far is this car really, body wise, from a crossover?  http://www.happycarz.com/showroom/1934-cadillac-series-20-model-355-d-four-door-sedan/  Yeah ground clearance is less, but most people buying crossovers aren't really in it for 4wd anyway, they are using them as station-wagons - something the 50s and 60s had plenty of.

As I posted before.  Crossover, as defined by Buick, when they were introducing their Rendezvous, had the feeling and conveniences  of a sedan, van and a SUV.  There is no denying that today's SUV's and crossovers are really nothing more then updated station wagons.  Consumes have given up going for styling and looked for vehicles that were more practical.  By the way, we had two Rendezvous and loved them.  Probably would still have one, except for the fact they stopped making them.
Eric Mason

cadillacmike68

Quote from: Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621 on January 04, 2018, 01:08:19 PM
There's more to it than that. Punitive CAFE regulations played a significant role in effectively legislating full size cars out of existence while encouraging truck & truck-based vehicles to flourish because EPA regulations are different depending on how vehicles are classified.

This is exactly correct, and its why mfrs can make a significantly higher profit on the suburban uhttack vehicles as well. 

They don't have the same fuel economy requirements, because they are not "passenger cars"   ???

When is the epa going to correct its self inflicted case of cranial rectal inversion or what we in the Airborne community refer to has heaving one's head up their 4th point of contact?  >:D
Regards,
"Cadillac" Mike

e.mason

Quote from: cadillacmike68 on January 07, 2018, 12:37:49 PM
This is exactly correct, and its why mfrs can make a significantly higher profit on the suburban uhttack vehicles as well. 

They don't have the same fuel economy requirements, because they are not "passenger cars"   ???

When is the epa going to correct its self inflicted case of cranial rectal inversion or what we in the Airborne community refer to has heaving one's head up their 4th point of contact?  >:D

Yes the profits are higher with "trucks".  On the flip side.  Have you noticed the discounts on new Chevy trucks?  The discounts are more then the cost of a new Cadillac of the 70's!  Many of the newer mid size SUV's and Crossovers over fantastic fuel mileage.  2018 Buick Envision/MPG
Up to 22 city / 29 highway
Eric Mason

cadillacmike68

Quote from: e.mason on January 07, 2018, 01:55:50 PM
Yes the profits are higher with "trucks".  On the flip side.  Have you noticed the discounts on new Chevy trucks?  The discounts are more then the cost of a new Cadillac of the 70's!  Many of the newer mid size SUV's and Crossovers over fantastic fuel mileage.  2018 Buick Envision/MPG
Up to 22 city / 29 highway

But it's still not as high as the requirements for "cars"...
Regards,
"Cadillac" Mike

e.mason

Eric Mason

cadillacmike68

Worst on that chart is escalade. xt5 is worse than some of the sedans, better than a few, but that's the cars themselves, NOT the fed REQUIREMENTS.
Regards,
"Cadillac" Mike

e.mason

Quote from: cadillacmike68 on January 10, 2018, 10:45:05 PM
Worst on that chart is escalade. xt5 is worse than some of the sedans, better than a few, but that's the cars themselves, NOT the fed REQUIREMENTS.

Maybe this will help.  For many car experts, the difference between the two is simple: A crossover is based on a car's platform, while an SUV uses the chassis of a truck. The result is that crossovers use "unibody" architecture, meaning the body and frame are one piece, while SUVs use a "body on frame" design.
Eric Mason