Cadillac & LaSalle Club Discussion Forum

Cadillac & LaSalle Club Forums => General Discussion => Topic started by: Glen on December 18, 2017, 01:14:46 AM

Title: Legal question about the Self Starter
Post by: Glen on December 18, 2017, 01:14:46 AM
I have a collection of Self Starters dating from Feb. 1980 to present (maybe missing an issue or two) and due to the work of a few dedicated people who created the index of articles for the Self Starter my collection has become very much more valuable. 
The question has to do with the copyright.  It says “The Self Starter is copyright ……. The Cadillac & La Salle Club, Inc, all rights reserved.  Written permission must be granted to use or reproduce any part of this magazine, except for brief quotations.”
That would mean I can not scan in an article and post it on this web site. 
Would the CLC really complain about posting an article on the forum to help another poster?  Would it be possible to get blanket permission to post SS articles here to help others? 
Title: Re: Legal question about the Self Starter
Post by: BJM on December 18, 2017, 09:18:11 AM
That is a good question, hopefully someone can answer. 
Title: Re: Legal question about the Self Starter
Post by: David Greenburg on December 18, 2017, 11:58:03 AM
I hope so.  I have been asked a number of times to post a copy of an SS article I wrote.  I refer people to Google, as others have posted it elsewhere.
Title: Re: Legal question about the Self Starter
Post by: Art Director on December 20, 2017, 01:31:17 PM
Gents, I've discussed this with the editor and because it's a legal question, it will have to be responded to by CLC attorneys.
Title: Re: Legal question about the Self Starter
Post by: D.Yaros on December 20, 2017, 03:45:50 PM
Could not one be helped by making use of email?
Title: Re: Legal question about the Self Starter
Post by: The Tassie Devil(le) on December 20, 2017, 05:50:00 PM
If each CLC Member is an actual "owner" of the CLC, by being a registered Member, then wouldn't Members as such be classified as "owners" of the Self Starter, seeing as the Self Starter is owned by the CLC, and therefore not have to comply with the Copyrite provisions.

I would have thought the Copyrite provisions applied to outside interests trying to utilise the contained information.

Thoughts?

Bruce. >:D
Title: Re: Legal question about the Self Starter
Post by: gkhashem on December 20, 2017, 05:56:51 PM
I think the copyright issue may be you cannot reproduce the article for financial gain.

Although ignorance is not a defense, there are some exceptions to the copyright infringement laws. There is an exception called “fair use,” which is often associated with education. The concept is that if you are using a photo or an article for educational or non-commercial purposes, then you may be exempt from infringement.

So posting it here may be OK.  But we can leave it to the lawyers. If another magazine were copying articles and selling their magazine this would be a no no.
Title: Re: Legal question about the Self Starter
Post by: V63 on December 21, 2017, 03:25:16 AM
I was at a Mc-restaurant and noticed it was posted:

Visits limited to 30 min punishable by law.

The take here is it’s probably only enforced in egregious cases.

Your “question” if it’s legally answered, would probably to the letter of the law.

I would think that should you proceed as you indicated, and your actions rose to the level of legal attention...you would be formally asked to cease (initially), and continued activity after notice ‘could’ be cause for litigation.

Again, certainly many visits to a Mc-restaurant exceed the posted limit...but if you are a problem...you will be asked to leave.







Title: Re: Legal question about the Self Starter
Post by: Fred Pennington 25635 on December 21, 2017, 01:24:41 PM
Greetings, I have been in the awards industry for over 50 years.
We work with these questions daily.
The previous posts are confusing Copyright and Trademark.
Copyrights have nothing to do with whether someone profits or not.

If an item is Copyrighted you can not use any portion of it unless you have permission and in the case of quoting someone giving them credit.

The not so simple answer is the owner of the Copyright is not necessarily the Self Starter.
The author can hold the rights as well as the magazine.
Both entities can claim rights making this a slippery slope.

Copyrights can expire with death and other circumstances.
I am sure the legal eagles can elaborate.

The worst you would probably get is a "Cease and Desist" letter.

Good luck,


Title: Re: Legal question about the Self Starter
Post by: 59-in-pieces on December 21, 2017, 06:14:05 PM
Have the authors/contributors of the articles and photographs, charts and diagrams signed over the FULL rights of their Work Product to the magazine, with or without consideration.
Failing that, it seems reasonable that the aggrieved party might/would be the author/contributor, and not the magazine - insert CLC Museum..... Calendar.
And as we all may know, the opinion of the CLC attorney is not likely the last word- no disrespect intended.
After all, there are other attorneys who may/for sure have a contrary opinion, and that is why we have Courts.
I know the Court system is not over burdened by frivolous cases, and this is a burning question which needs to be litigated, sooner than later - LOL.
Or, would it be too much or too late to just use common sense.
Have fun,
Steve B.
Title: Re: Legal question about the Self Starter
Post by: Jason Edge on December 21, 2017, 09:17:04 PM
Quote from: Fred Pennington 25635 on December 21, 2017, 01:24:41 PM
The not so simple answer is the owner of the Copyright is not necessarily the Self Starter.
The author can hold the rights as well as the magazine.
Both entities can claim rights making this a slippery slope
I am in no way an expert on copyrights and publishing, however, when I read in the Self-Starter on page 3 that the Self-Starter is published by the Cadillac & LaSalle Club, Inc., and copyrighted by the Cadillac & LaSalle Club, Inc. with all rights reserved; I believe that means the Cadillac & LaSalle Club owns the copyright pure and simple, and it is completely up to their discretion to allow someone to reproduce any part of their published document.
This is why, when I posted the link to the May 1963 Self-Starter article "Two Weeks Behind the Wheel" I had scanned a week or so ago, I indicated I would gladly remove it if it was not appropriate for me to post it. My hope would be that since this is the CLC Forum, it would be OK with approval to post such content, but again if I were asked to remove it I would completely understand as I am not the publisher of the Self-Starter and definitely do not own the Copyright.
Title: Re: Legal question about the Self Starter
Post by: Art Director on December 29, 2017, 08:50:33 PM
The CLC attorneys have spoken, and Bob Crimmins, chair of the Publications Committee, has asked me to post the following concerning copyright of The Self-Starter:


There are reasons why we shouldn’t give anyone blanket permission to copy The Self-Starter articles:

First, some articles were written by professional authors, who have agreed that their work may appear in the The Self-Starter, but not necessarily in other places. If these articles appeared elsewhere by permission of the Club, but without consulting the author, we could be in violation of the initial agreement made with the author.

Second, if someone chose to post a portion of an The Self-Starter article, but not the whole article, the statements in the posted portion might be less than accurate if taken out of their original context.

Third, we have invested time and effort in creating an index to The Self-Starter articles, which permits anyone to locate a prior article on a given topic; and we have designated a club member to handle the sales of back issues, to make them available to persons who want to access their content.

Fourth, if anyone can post a The Self-Starter article on a website (which so far as I know has no copyright protection), what’s to stop a third party from republishing the article in another magazine without giving any credit to the The Self-Starter or the original author?
Title: Re: Legal question about the Self Starter
Post by: gkhashem on December 30, 2017, 04:47:34 PM
More reason to republish some oldies but goodies. There are not enough old copies of The Self Starter kicking around for many to buy.

Why not start a new feature and reprint some old articles for us to enjoy?

Of course giving full credit to the author and original publish date.
Title: Re: Legal question about the Self Starter
Post by: David Greenburg on December 30, 2017, 06:27:36 PM
George:

That is a great idea.  Perhaps chapters could be allowed to republish specialized articles relevant to their membership (like my pitman arm article, which could be of interest to the '59-'60 Chapter) that might be too narrowly-focused for the general readership.
Title: Re: Legal question about the Self Starter
Post by: Art Director on December 30, 2017, 09:44:12 PM
Quote from: gkhashem on December 30, 2017, 04:47:34 PM
More reason to republish some oldies but goodies. There are not enough old copies of The Self Starter kicking around for many to buy.

Why not start a new feature and reprint some old articles for us to enjoy?

Of course giving full credit to the author and original publish date.

George, Steve Stewart does not go on this Discussion Forum. You would get better results with your request if you wrote him directly at theself-starter@cadillaclasalleclub.org.

Tim