Cadillac & LaSalle Club Message Forum

Cadillac & LaSalle Club Forums => Restoration Corner => Topic started by: Cape Cod Fleetwood on December 18, 2017, 02:46:02 AM

Title: Laurie's 1970 Fleetwood Brougham Restoration
Post by: Cape Cod Fleetwood on December 18, 2017, 02:46:02 AM
I've had several Caddy's in my day, all daily drivers. 1975 and 1976 Sedan DeVilles, 81 Coupe de Ville with an 8-6-4 that actually worked, 1987 Sedan de Ville (yes the head gasket failed), and 1996 Concours that was my pride and joy. My dad (RIP) had several Caddy's, 1970-1975. Life changes and you need an SUV for work, I'm a contractor. But I was just blessed with a 1970 Fleetwood Brougham that looks just like my dads! It was my Christmas present to me! 96K and really in great shape, I wish I looked that good at 47 but I digress... Any way, I want to restore this car to the best of my financial ability, I have a great mech for the hard stuff, he's on a funny car crew. So please be prepared for a lot of 'stupid' questions, I'm a chick after all.  :P

Really looking forward to great answers and great advice here. Merry Christmas!
Title: Re: Laurie's 1970 Fleetwood Brougham Restoration
Post by: chrisntam on December 18, 2017, 07:04:01 AM
Welcome aboard Laurie!

The '70 FB is my "wish" car, always looking for one, but really have no place to put it, nor do I "need" it.  Congrats on the acquisition!  I bet your dad would be proud of you for jumping in the fray of getting an "old" car and making it new again!

There are lots of '70 owners on the boards here, feel free to pepper us with questions.

Be sure to post some pics of that beast!  We love pics!

Chris.
Title: Re: Laurie's 1970 Fleetwood Brougham Restoration
Post by: Barry M Wheeler #2189 on December 18, 2017, 07:29:23 AM
I haven't seen anything as yet except a well written note with all the facts correctly set down. My wife of 56 years used to refer to things under the hood as "greasy round black things" but that was usually when they'd been sitting in the kitchen sink for a day or two. She keeps complaining that I need to fix the heating system on her 160K 1979 Fleetwood or sell it. She has struggled though driving some 50 Cadillacs of all different vintages and condition through snow and ice for a quarter century back and forth to work, so don't you worry about asking "chick" questions.

We had a 1970 Fleetwood that we drove while the kids were in college. I think we paid $150 for it. Very nice comfortable car, even though the doghouse was red primer. Welcome to the Forum. (We were at Ft. Devens during the first few months of our marriage in the winter of 1959/60.)
Title: Re: Laurie's 1970 Fleetwood Brougham Restoration
Post by: Tpicks55 on December 18, 2017, 07:45:25 AM
Welcome L, you will find most of your answer here as there are people that will blow your mind on their knowledge.  Everyone is willing to share freely.  There are no dumb  questions here or I would have been banned. lol   have fun with your car.  BTW pictures say 1000 words ;) Tony
Title: Re: Laurie's 1970 Fleetwood Brougham Restoration
Post by: BJM on December 18, 2017, 08:17:04 AM
Photos!  There are a lot of post war fans on here (and pre war).  I am 53 so I am close to your age.  During the 70's I grew up admiring what many call the boats.  I just posted a 69 Fleetwood on the Buy/Sell.

I was going to ask a question of the knowledgeable crowd here and spotted your post. Maybe in your photos you could add "Fleetwood and Fleetwood Beougham" specific adds to the Cadillac?

For the larger audience - what constituted a 1966 to 1970ish Fleetwood and Fleetwood Brougham? 
Title: Re: Laurie's 1970 Fleetwood Brougham Restoration
Post by: cadillacmike68 on December 18, 2017, 08:40:29 AM
Fleetwood Brougham had a padded roof with a smaller wreath and crest on the C pillar, Inside it had fold down footrests for the back seat and individually adjustable and switched reading lights.
Title: Re: Laurie's 1970 Fleetwood Brougham Restoration
Post by: 59-in-pieces on December 18, 2017, 09:58:33 AM
Laurie,
Welcome,
Don't get me wrong, I am not the poster boy for membership, but become a member of the CLC.
Get yourself a Shop Manual and an Authenticity Manual, they can each be very helpful on your restoration journey.
By the way, I am not one of those 70's gurus, I'm caught in the Fifties - kinda guys.
Have fun,
Steve B.
Title: Re: Laurie's 1970 Fleetwood Brougham Restoration
Post by: 35-709 on December 18, 2017, 10:10:29 AM
Laurie,
Welcome,
" .... but become a member of the CLC.
Get yourself a Shop Manual and an Authenticity Manual, they can each be very helpful on your restoration journey.

Have fun,
Steve B.

I concur 100% and DO get the Cadillac Shop manual for your mechanic and tell him NOT to think Chevrolet when working on your car and it's engine.  They both have internal combustion engines, yes, but there are many differences and different ways of doing things between Cadillac and Chevy that have taken many Chevy-oriented owners and mechanics by surprise.

Shop manual ---
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1970-CADILLAC-SHOP-MANUAL-ALL-SERIES-A-NICE-FACTORY-ORIGINAL/310356700288?hash=item4842b36c80:m:mXLbNNZ_q373QJjXhdnWRsg&vxp=mtr

Fisher Body manual ---
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1970-FISHER-BODY-FACTORY-SERVICE-MANUAL-BUICK-CADILLAC-CHEVY-OLDS-PONTIAC-SHOP/302558870263?hash=item4671e9faf7:g:IR4AAOSwKfVXKovQ&vxp=mtr

Gold mines of information!  Cheap at twice the price.

Title: Re: Laurie's 1970 Fleetwood Brougham Restoration
Post by: cadillacmike68 on December 18, 2017, 10:24:24 AM
Congrats on your car. I had a 1970 Fleetwood Brougham while I was in college up in MA. I grew up in MA, but am in FL now.

A Catalog and owners manual will also help.

Catalog:

https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=m570.l1313&_nkw=cadillac+1970+catalog&_sacat=0

There were two sizes of the catalog.

Owners Manual:

https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_odkw=cadillac+1970+catalog&_osacat=0&_from=R40&_trksid=m570.l1313&_nkw=cadillac+1970+owners+manual&_sacat=0

Getting one with the blue cover would be nice.

Unless you are going to restore it to a CLC national judging senior level, you don't need an authenticity manual.
Title: Re: Laurie's 1970 Fleetwood Brougham Restoration
Post by: D.Smith on December 18, 2017, 12:46:28 PM
Welcome aboard!   And Congrats on your purchase! 
Title: Re: Laurie's 1970 Fleetwood Brougham Restoration
Post by: 76eldo on December 18, 2017, 09:37:27 PM
Congratulations on your new 70 Fleetwood.  1970 is a great year.  I have two 1970's and have owned many others over the years.

Don't be shy with questions.  We are here to help.  Club membership will reap many rewards as mentioned previously.

Welcome!

Brian
Title: Re: Laurie's 1970 Fleetwood Brougham Restoration
Post by: Cape Cod Fleetwood on December 18, 2017, 11:23:50 PM
WOW! Thanks for the warm and fuzzy welcome guys, very much appreciated!

I got my baby insured (Hagerty) and registered today. I have to sail the aircraft carrier tomorrow, rescheduled 2 clients much to their chagrin to make the hole in the schedule. First stop will be at crew chief Scott's garage for his first peek and maybe and oil change if he has the time, and the state mandated inspection sticker. For a 70 its headlights work? check. Horn works? check, here's your sticker, see you next year. I have the original blue owners manual still in the wax paper wrapper. Assuming Scott can find an AC type PF-30 filter, and 5 quarts of REAL oil, 1030 or 1040 for this area? Is anyone using synthetic or Dexos? I'm trying to stay 'old school' but if the new oils are better for the car it shall be done.

The car idle's "rough", when you're rolling at speed it smooths right out. Also the previous owner put a new exhaust on and for some reason deleted the resonator so it sounds like a hemi 'cuda. Which is cool... but not for this car. Already have an appointment right after our oil change/sticker at Lou's Custom Exhaust to add the resonator. Wondering if the lack of that is creating (or not) back pressure that would cause it run rough at idle? PO gave it a tune up last year: points, plugs, cap, wires. Noticed the owners manual states a gap of .035, plugs come gapped at .030. I know what a badly gapped plug will do to my lawn mower or leaf blower. Wires could be the wrong gauge... I ran down this list of "what ifs" with Scott today... he just stared at me. Finally he said "Get it up on route 6 and kick its a$$ for a few miles, blow it out, then bring it back and we can start at the beginning." Kick its a$$, great. I need a tail hook or parachutes to stop in an emergency....

Educate me on fuel guys, I'm running low according to a gauge which I don't trust yet. I'm near an airport so I can get AVGAS, there's a gas station about 30 minutes from here that purports to sell leaded non-ethanol, $80 for 5 gallons. I want to do what's right by the car. I also enjoy eating occasionally so if there's a happy medium I'm all ears. I need fuel now, looking forward to guidance!

SO MANY more questions... but these are priority for me now. So grateful for any and all support. Thank you so much.

Is there a way to upload a Facebook video? I have its arrival here Saturday night on my page, emotional. And the story I posted about 'that day'. Also pretty emotional... my dad in heaven had to remind me how to lock the doors.

Thanks again, really appreciate the support!
Title: Re: Laurie's 1970 Fleetwood Brougham Restoration
Post by: The Tassie Devil(le) on December 18, 2017, 11:57:05 PM
WOW! Thanks for the warm and fuzzy welcome guys, very much appreciated!

Educate me on fuel guys, I'm running low according to a gauge which I don't trust yet. I'm near an airport so I can get AVGAS, there's a gas station about 30 minutes from here that purports to sell leaded non-ethanol, $80 for 5 gallons.     
Hey, we help anyone, within reason that is.

But for fuel at that price, you are being ripped off.   For a less amount of money, you could buy heaps of Octane Booster to last you for many tanksfull of petrol.

Nothing wrong with straight unleaded petrol.   Just don't go for the ethanol polluted stuff if you can help it.   I run standard unleaded petrol in my '72 with a gulp of Octane Booster.   I am running 10.5 - 1 compression pistons with shaved deck and heads.   Pings its' heads off with basic ULP.

These engines are made of a high Nickel content, and don't suffer as bad with valve recession as cheaper brands.   BUT, you don't know what the previous owners have treated her to.

Bruce. >:D
Title: Re: Laurie's 1970 Fleetwood Brougham Restoration
Post by: Cape Cod Fleetwood on December 19, 2017, 12:41:37 AM
Hey, we help anyone, within reason that is.

But for fuel at that price, you are being ripped off.   For a less amount of money, you could buy heaps of Octane Booster to last you for many tanksfull of petrol.

Nothing wrong with straight unleaded petrol.   Just don't go for the ethanol polluted stuff if you can help it.   I run standard unleaded petrol in my '72 with a gulp of Octane Booster.   I am running 10.5 - 1 compression pistons with shaved deck and heads.   Pings its' heads off with basic ULP.

These engines are made of a high Nickel content, and don't suffer as bad with valve recession as cheaper brands.   BUT, you don't know what the previous owners have treated her to.

Bruce. >:D

Here in the states all of the gas is polluted with ethanol. Its 'specialty' stores that sell virgin gas, at a price.

My regular gas is Sunoco, they have a 94 octane blend. There are a million providers of "octane booster" treatments... which one? Additive to gas ratio?
Title: Re: Laurie's 1970 Fleetwood Brougham Restoration
Post by: Cape Cod Fleetwood on December 19, 2017, 12:44:28 AM
See? I'm ex-military, I can follow an order....
Just bought a 1970 sales brochure $15, shop manual $24.08 and body manual $30.85. Already have the owners manual.

 :)
Laurie!
Title: Re: Laurie's 1970 Fleetwood Brougham Restoration
Post by: cadillacmike68 on December 19, 2017, 03:20:07 AM
The new filter # is PF24, I'm pretty sure.

Use the synthetic oil or Shell Rotella T5, T5 or T6 T6 is synthetic) diesel grades, for better wear protection, and try to get something with the last number being at least 40 for spring / summer use. A 10w30 should be good for the winter up there.

Wires are ACDELCO 508D

Plugs are R43XLS (I think).

Rockauto.com has all these items as well as the points, condenser, rotor caps, etc.

Get the highest octane fuel you can find. 94 should be ok on a 1970, but you'll have to have someone who knows how to properly set time on these engines:

Hot engine, 600RPM in Drive, air cleaner Off, Vacuum advance OFF and plugged, Climate Control OFF, Dwell 30 deg, each idle screw backed off 1 & 1/2 turns from a 20RPM lean drop to get at 600RPM, and Time at 7.5 deg BTDC. It should all be on that sticker over the top of the radiator and it's in the manual.

You might also want to get a crane cams adjustable vacuum advance. Amazon has these. you want the one for points ignition, NOT the HEI one - it won't fit.

That 7.5 deg might be too high for today's fuel, and this is where a knowledgeable person or the crane cams adjustable vacuum advance comes in handy, because it has different springs for the mechanical advance weights as well.
Title: Re: Laurie's 1970 Fleetwood Brougham Restoration
Post by: cadillacmike68 on December 19, 2017, 03:22:16 AM
See? I'm ex-military, I can follow an order....
Just bought a 1970 sales brochure $15, shop manual $24.08 and body manual $30.85. Already have the owners manual.

 :)
Laurie!

Were you a Navy pilot by any chance? You mentioned AC, flight deck, tail hook, etc. That and parachutes. Now those I did use being Airborne.
Title: Re: Laurie's 1970 Fleetwood Brougham Restoration
Post by: 76eldo on December 19, 2017, 07:43:47 AM
I use Lucas Hot Rod oil in my older Cars with non-roller lifters.  The reason is that there is zinc in the oil which is needed to properly lubricate the cam and lifters among other things.  The Shell Rotella oil also has zinc (ZDDP) in it but I would do a little research on that.  Normally I use 10-30 in colder months and 10-40 in summer months but my cars don't get a lot of use so I have been sticking with the 10-30.

The idle could be a carb adjustment or just needs some hard running to clean out some carbon.  Checking the dwell and timing is a great place to start.  I generally stick with AC plugs for my cars.

I have been using premium unleaded in my cars.  I don't think you need any additives unless you are going to run the car really hard.

I've been told that hi octane AV gas in a 70 would make it run like a different car but have never tried it.

Brian
Title: Re: Laurie's 1970 Fleetwood Brougham Restoration
Post by: chrisntam on December 19, 2017, 08:03:39 AM
Yeah, just use premium unleaded, you'll be fine.

We have 93 octane here around Dallas, recently priced @ $2.50/gallon.

Expanding on what Brian said:

I use ZDDP additive in my oil.  Current blends of oil (that are readily available) don't have zinc in it.  Most or all cars today have roller lifters and zinc in the oil is no longer needed.  Our cars have old style lifters, the zinc helps cushion the ride between the lifter & cam. 

There is debate as to if the zinc "additive" properly blends with over the counter oil or if it is better to buy oil with the additive already in it.  Just Google ZDDP additive and you can read until you get "tired head".

I have about 6 bottles of the additive I need to use up, so that's what I'm doing for now.

chris.

Title: Re: Laurie's 1970 Fleetwood Brougham Restoration
Post by: Cape Cod Fleetwood on December 19, 2017, 08:39:37 AM
You guys are awesome, thank you!

Laurie!
Title: Re: Laurie's 1970 Fleetwood Brougham Restoration
Post by: 35-709 on December 19, 2017, 09:10:57 AM
There ARE modern oils with sufficient zinc readily available, some mentioned above, another is Mobil 1 but not ALL Mobil 1s.  I use Mobil 1 15W-50, plenty of zinc and you can use it year-round.  You don't need additives that way and premium unleaded should be just fine for your car.
Title: Re: Laurie's 1970 Fleetwood Brougham Restoration
Post by: 76eldo on December 19, 2017, 12:31:30 PM
Regarding ZDDP additives, I went to an engine seminar at the Grand National in Las Vegas.  There was a guy doing the seminar that builds race engines and also does vintage engine work.  According to him, you should buy oil with the ZDDP already in it because the additive may not stay in suspension as well and may not be compatible.

Just repeating what I heard.

Brian
Title: Re: Laurie's 1970 Fleetwood Brougham Restoration
Post by: Carl Fielding on December 19, 2017, 03:11:23 PM
Hey Fleetwood : This is the oil discussion again. There is a very modern oil designed for your car , and it's use or lack thereof. It is better than all the others. Amsoil Z-Rod. Use the 10W/30 for Winter. Look it up. ZDDP and phosphorus for that 472. I have to run right now , but if you have put something else in it , just go to Z-Rod next change. When I get back , I will present impartial substantiation of my claim. You will also get octane info from my years of 1970 CDV ownership. I must take the time now to say that I have absolutely no connection to , of financial interest in Amsoil whatsoever. I just use it. If anyone can show me a better oil , I will drop that Z-Rod like a hot exhaust manifold. If I had a daughter , she would be about your age. She'd be a Cadillac Chick too ! Very happy to have you join us !  - Cadillac Carl
Title: Re: Laurie's 1970 Fleetwood Brougham Restoration
Post by: Cape Cod Fleetwood on December 20, 2017, 12:52:30 AM
Were you a Navy pilot by any chance? You mentioned AC, flight deck, tail hook, etc. That and parachutes. Now those I did use being Airborne.

Navy loadmaster, C130. I never saw the sense in jumping out of a perfectly well functioning aircraft, but that's just me. LOL!
Title: Re: Laurie's 1970 Fleetwood Brougham Restoration
Post by: Cape Cod Fleetwood on December 20, 2017, 12:58:15 AM
Hey Fleetwood : This is the oil discussion again. There is a very modern oil designed for your car , and it's use or lack thereof. It is better than all the others. Amsoil Z-Rod. Use the 10W/30 for Winter. Look it up. ZDDP and phosphorus for that 472. I have to run right now , but if you have put something else in it , just go to Z-Rod next change. When I get back , I will present impartial substantiation of my claim. You will also get octane info from my years of 1970 CDV ownership. I must take the time now to say that I have absolutely no connection to , of financial interest in Amsoil whatsoever. I just use it. If anyone can show me a better oil , I will drop that Z-Rod like a hot exhaust manifold. If I had a daughter , she would be about your age. She'd be a Cadillac Chick too ! Very happy to have you join us !  - Cadillac Carl

Cadillac Carl, all the posts here so far have been so kind, helpful and informative. Yours brought me to tears. God Bless and Merry Christmas. Laurie
Title: Re: Laurie's 1970 Fleetwood Brougham Restoration
Post by: Cape Cod Fleetwood on December 20, 2017, 01:12:36 AM
Hey guys! All the media recommended has been marked shipped by eBay.
Took my baby out today probably for our last ride of the winter. To Scott's for a quick peek, no time for an oil change, then to his other station for a sticker, then to Lou's Custom Exhaust for a resonator. Video on my FB page. It has a resonator, what it didn't have was a large enough muffler and an exhaust system properly bolted to the manifold! Now she's Cadillac quiet! Lovingly placed back on the 10x20 tarp, tomorrow I'll throw some moving blankets over her and a 19x23 tarp bungeed at the bottom. I've removed the mats and will be putting "damp rid" cannisters - 2 on the front floor, 2 on the back floor and 3 in the trunk, before she gets dressed for winter. Only assuming 12-14 weeks like this. Took a million pictures today to bring to body shops for paint/roof guesstimates. Are there other places I can find her RPO codes besides the glove box? None there, yikes. I noticed when she was up on the lift the oil and tranny pans were pretty wet, probably just needs new gaskets. Scott can do that when all the fluids get changed in the spring. I checked the levels on the initial look, they were normal. Such fun to drive, and no I didn't kick its butt, I could hear my dad say "learn how to drive it first honey", so we kept our speed to about 52 knots on the highway. Already entered for the Father's Day Car Show in Hyannis on June 17th. I looked at World Of Wheels but its too soon this year in Boston, in March. Plus there's not a lot of love for survivors at that show. Should I post all her pics here or on another part of the forum? Thank you all so much for your advice and information, I'm taking it all in! This woman actually LISTENS! HA!  ;)
Title: Re: Laurie's 1970 Fleetwood Brougham Restoration
Post by: Cape Cod Fleetwood on December 20, 2017, 01:51:22 AM
Hey guys,
where would they be located? Nothing in the glove box... help?
Title: Re: Laurie's 1970 Fleetwood Brougham Restoration
Post by: Cape Cod Fleetwood on December 20, 2017, 03:10:40 AM
Once its painted and gets a new roof I'll be installing a Shelter Logic or King Canopy 'portable garage' for the good weather. With massive ground stakes and some ratchet straps inside on the support poles they held up to Irma. Renting garage space is not an option, but I do have clients who have offered me their garages (free) during the winter when they're not using their seaside mansions.

Right now, my new baby (1970 fleetwood in 'fair' condition) is on a 10x20 tarp. All the mats have been removed and I'll be putting several "damp rid" cannisters in the front and back floors as well as the trunk. I'll keep a window opened slightly to let some air in. Then the plan is to cover it with moving blankets and a 19x23 tarp, bungeed tightly at the bottom to keep the critters out. Here's a pic of how it will look. Total time under cover I estimate at 12-14 weeks. The use of blankets is to prevent the 'camo' paint job from the Harbor Freight tarp bleeding onto what's left of the paint. Thoughts and opinions greatly welcomed.
Title: Re: Laurie's 1970 Fleetwood Brougham Restoration
Post by: Steve Passmore on December 20, 2017, 03:17:19 AM
My question would be 'why not take the garage offer and save all the uncertainty?
Title: Re: Laurie's 1970 Fleetwood Brougham Restoration
Post by: Cape Cod Fleetwood on December 20, 2017, 03:56:03 AM
My question would be 'why not take the garage offer and save all the uncertainty?

Fair question! I just got it, Saturday. Its my dream come true. I'd just like to keep her close as long as I can. How's that for a 'chick' answer!
Title: Re: Laurie's 1970 Fleetwood Brougham Restoration
Post by: James Landi on December 20, 2017, 06:47:24 AM
Mice can be a real problem--- I use moth balls--- in open plates so they don't touch surfaces and a full box of cloths dryer sheets--- everywhere--- including on the top of the wheels, in the engine compartment, etc. etc.  I store in Maine... using off brand dryer sheets doesn't work.  I find this combination, liberally applied, works.   Been storing my old Cadillacs up here in Maine for over 10 years.  Congratulations on a really nice car...  Happy day,   James
Title: Re: Laurie's 1970 Fleetwood Brougham Restoration
Post by: jagbuxx #12944 on December 20, 2017, 07:55:51 AM
Check under the hood on the cowl near the windshield.
The body plate hopefully is still there.
It will give you the body build #, color code, trim code, build week & month as well as major options.
Enjoy the car!
My first collector car was also a 70 Fleetwood.
Loved it
Title: Re: Laurie's 1970 Fleetwood Brougham Restoration
Post by: Steve Passmore on December 20, 2017, 08:13:29 AM
Fair question! I just got it, Saturday. Its my dream come true. I'd just like to keep her close as long as I can. How's that for a 'chick' answer!

Ya, I know what it's like when you just acquired it. But I have covered cars before now for that reason and ended regretting it. Good luck.
Title: Re: Laurie's 1970 Fleetwood Brougham Restoration
Post by: autoluke on December 20, 2017, 10:41:44 AM
Go with the garage offer, and save the hassle.

Title: Re: Laurie's 1970 Fleetwood Brougham Restoration
Post by: wrefakis on December 20, 2017, 10:46:09 AM
first Cadillac that I myself ever drove was a twin to this one in October of 1969 less than 500 miles on it, never drove anything quite like it
this one was driven on a few trips back in 71, has all of 17000 miles you had to drive them back in the day on correct fuel amazing power and handling for car that size
Title: Re: Laurie's 1970 Fleetwood Brougham Restoration
Post by: wrefakis on December 20, 2017, 10:46:56 AM
photo
Title: Re: Laurie's 1970 Fleetwood Brougham Restoration
Post by: lexi on December 20, 2017, 11:40:04 AM
Laurie your "chick answer" is adorable and totally understandable. Best to go with the mind rather than the heart on this one though, and park her in a garage. We got to do what is best for the car. On the plus side just think how happy you will be when you see her tucked away, out of the elements. Clay/Lexi
Title: Re: Laurie's 1970 Fleetwood Brougham Restoration
Post by: Cape Cod Fleetwood on December 20, 2017, 11:47:57 AM
See, you guys are trying to use "logic" with a female who's overly emotionally attached to this car. Aren't any of you married, have mom's, daughters, sisters? That trick never works...  ;D

Seriously, how much damage can 12-14 weeks do to the car being well blanketed, tarped, and with damp rids, moth balls and dryer sheets all over/under it? I'm chasing paint/roof guesstimates now. The interior is true 'survivor' ergo not showroom.
Title: Re: Laurie's 1970 Fleetwood Brougham Restoration
Post by: David Greenburg on December 20, 2017, 12:06:58 PM
I donít think gender controls emotional attachment to cars.  Iíve seen plenty of guys, myself included, make decisions and spend unwarranted amounts of money based on emotional attachment to old Cadillacs.  Like governing house purchase and remodeling decisions on more than one occasion.  That said, you want to do what is best for your car.  If keeping it close by will enable you to keep an eye on it, and perhaps air it out occasionally during dry spells, your plan might be OK, particularly given the limited time frame.
Title: Re: Laurie's 1970 Fleetwood Brougham Restoration
Post by: lexi on December 20, 2017, 02:24:11 PM
Laurie you are hilarious! David's points are well taken and your desire to keep the car close may be best after all things are taken into consideration, (with security being right up there in importance). That said, I am generally not a fan of storing our classics outside. A search of this Forum will reveal many posts on this topic which may provide you with key information especially should decide to store her outdoors. Think we can all agree that in the end we should strive to do what is best for the car, given the circumstances. As the 'devil is always in the details', so to speak, what is 'best' will be dependent on all the factors. Glad you got you dream car! I think most of us can relate to that as I agree that gender does not regulate how any of us feel about our cars! They are members of the family. Clay/Lexi
Title: Re: Laurie's 1970 Fleetwood Brougham Restoration
Post by: Dan LeBlanc on December 20, 2017, 03:24:13 PM
Laurie...please do yourself a favor and do NOT use the tarp.  Moisture will get trapped in the blankets between the tarp and the paint and will not be able to breathe.  You'll have a mess on your hands in 12-14 weeks when you uncover it.

My father, a body man of 47 years when he retired always said that if a car was to be left outside during the winter, it was always best to leave it uncovered so the air can circulate and keep it dry.  Trapped moisture will be the worst enemy causing more rust than leaving it outside, uncovered.

Admittedly, I had to do it with a 62 Coupe de Ville one winter and it looked the same in the spring as it did when I parked it in the winter.  I just cleaned the snow off of it after every storm and kept snow cleared around it.

Dad was right...again!
Title: Re: Laurie's 1970 Fleetwood Brougham Restoration
Post by: David Greenburg on December 20, 2017, 03:33:51 PM
A breathable all-weather cover is an option.  And if you get a good one, you could keep using it after the car is repainted.  Check out California Car Covers for some of the options.
Title: Re: Laurie's 1970 Fleetwood Brougham Restoration
Post by: The Tassie Devil(le) on December 20, 2017, 04:44:03 PM
Boy, what horrible decisions to have to make each and every year.

Life must be really tough living in places where it snows and the ground freezes.

Bruce. >:D

PS.   A friend once covered up his car with a simple cover, and by the time he removed it, the paint on the roof was crazed and lifting off.   

PPS.   I once put a car cover over my '72 Eldo Coupe when it was forecast that there would be a heavy frost.   The next day I couldn't remove it till the late morning as the rotten cover had physically become frozen to the body of the car.
Title: Re: Laurie's 1970 Fleetwood Brougham Restoration
Post by: gkhashem on December 20, 2017, 05:13:51 PM
Dan is correct the moisture under that tarp will be a disaster.

Better to leave it uncovered. better yet get into that garage!
Title: Re: Laurie's 1970 Fleetwood Brougham Restoration
Post by: chrisntam on December 20, 2017, 09:37:57 PM
What are you trying to find out?  What options the car came with?

Are you looking for a build sheet?

If so, sometimes it is under or behind the back seat, perhaps between the gas tank and the trunk. Of what I found on my car...not too much...

On mine, I just looked at how it's equipped and go from there.

Here's a link or two to some good caddy info...

http://automotivemileposts.com/cadillac/cadi1970selections.shtml

https://www.motorera.com/cadillac/cad1970/cad70.htm
Title: Re: Laurie's 1970 Fleetwood Brougham Restoration
Post by: Bob Hoffmann CLC#96 on December 20, 2017, 10:05:07 PM
Hey guys,
where would they be located? Nothing in the glove box... help?
Laurie,
Realistically... this is a Cadillac not a Corvette!! LOL!
Bob
Title: Re: Laurie's 1970 Fleetwood Brougham Restoration
Post by: Glen on December 20, 2017, 10:45:53 PM
Hey guys,
where would they be located? Nothing in the glove box... help?
Iím not sure when RPO codes were implemented.  But I know my 70 Eldo did not have an RPO sticker. 
Title: Re: Laurie's 1970 Fleetwood Brougham Restoration
Post by: cadillacmike68 on December 20, 2017, 11:04:07 PM
Yes, but there is a trim plate at the base of the windshield on the driver side at the end of the cowl. It has series number (should be 68169), month and week of production paint, top and interior codes, and several, but not all optional item codes.  If you can post a pic of it (you might want to clean it off first) the experts here can tell you the major options that it was built with.

You can also order a "kit" from CLC that will include a build sheet and some other stuff. There's also a GM heritage site with a "data book" that is a scan of dozens of pages on the cars (364 pages for 1970!). Let me find and put that link here:

https://www.gmheritagecenter.com/gm-heritage-archive/vehicle-information-kits.html.

If you want the build sheet, the only way I know to get it is to buy the kit from CLC. I think it is $50.


Title: Re: Laurie's 1970 Fleetwood Brougham Restoration
Post by: cadillacmike68 on December 20, 2017, 11:38:46 PM
Please Don't leave the windows cracked if you store it outside That will let in moisture. The moth balls and bounce sheets work well, You'll need them even if you put it in a garage. In a garage you can leave the windows half open, that will let air circulate.

The garage shouldn't be a bad option, unless its way too far away. But if you're out there on the cape within 10-15 miles of the shore, you'll likely get ocean mist drifting your way, so a garage is even more desirable.

Of course you can always bring it down here to Wesley Chapel, FL where I think it will just barely fit in my garage.  ;)

In all my airborne jumps, I never jumped from a C130. But I did have the displeasure of riding in C130s in and out of afghan several times. NOT fun... I also hopped a Space-A flight on a C130 from Hanscom AFB to MacDill AFB. That was a bit cold in the cargo bay, but not as cold as the C17s Space A trips from Germany to the US and back...
Title: Re: Laurie's 1970 Fleetwood Brougham Restoration
Post by: Cape Cod Fleetwood on December 21, 2017, 12:06:15 AM
You all have no idea how much I appreciate you taking the time to respond, thank you.

Its like this...

When I was very young I was always threatened with "if you're not a good girl, Santa won't bring you gifts!" Doesn't every parent say that?

Then you grow up, work hard, have a life, go to war, start a business, own properties, live the dream, you're an ADULT after all now.

Then one Christmas morning you wake up, alone in your house, your family is all dead, friends are few since you trust no one after years in the military. You look under your Christmas tree and for the first time - there's nothing there. Nothing. And at the age of 52 you cry, all day, uncontrollably. I was a bad girl. And it happens again the next year... and the next. You'd have to experience it to understand.

A friend who's a psych recommended I buy myself something 'outrageous', something I'd never buy for myself, for myself, for a Christmas gift. Wrap it up, put it under the tree. Instant "peace" that Christmas and forever since.

That's why the car is outside this year... I need to see it and touch it Christmas morning. If that makes any sense now.

Got her all wrapped up today, took everyone's advice on proper seasonings - damp rids, Gain dryer sheets, moth balls on dishes under the car in 3 places, windows are up. Really glad I took the pics, especially on the engine. If the car smells REALLY good going out that first time to get painted I'll know I missed one. Next winter, if I don't take someone up on their garage offer, she'll stay in the 'portable garage' I'll erect at some point. There's a trick to installing these correctly I guess, LONG stakes into the ground at all the poles, and ratchet straps tight across the top and sides, THEN you put on the material for the sides and roof, tightly. We'll see. Here's pics from today, some of you may cringe, I'm sorry!
Title: Re: Laurie's 1970 Fleetwood Brougham Restoration
Post by: Cape Cod Fleetwood on December 21, 2017, 12:18:03 AM
My goodness, I never posted pics of my new baby, here they are.
Title: Re: Laurie's 1970 Fleetwood Brougham Restoration
Post by: Steve Passmore on December 21, 2017, 03:04:36 AM
Reading your story makes me fully understand. Keep the car with you!  I see you have the room there though? Is building a solid single garage an option?
Title: Re: Laurie's 1970 Fleetwood Brougham Restoration
Post by: Cape Cod Fleetwood on December 21, 2017, 03:35:03 AM
Reading your story makes me fully understand. Keep the car with you!  I see you have the room there though? Is building a solid single garage an option?
Hi Steve, I'm a contractor, I can build anything. My family room is actually a converted garage. I can build it for the cost of materials, but then my real estate taxes, home owners insurance and flood insurance would all go up. The $400 'portable garage' saves a fortune, money I'd rather put into the car. NEXT winter, possibly I'll use a garage at a clients abandoned summer home. This winter, she stays here!
HO! HO! HO!
Laurie!
Title: Re: Laurie's 1970 Fleetwood Brougham Restoration
Post by: Cape Cod Fleetwood on December 21, 2017, 03:38:26 AM
In all my airborne jumps, I never jumped from a C130. But I did have the displeasure of riding in C130s in and out of afghan several times. NOT fun... I also hopped a Space-A flight on a C130 from Hanscom AFB to MacDill AFB. That was a bit cold in the cargo bay, but not as cold as the C17s Space A trips from Germany to the US and back...

"displeasure"? I beg your pardon! LOL! My little mortar magnet got me around the world several times and into out of some unpleasant places. But those C17s are faster and quieter for sure.
Title: Re: Laurie's 1970 Fleetwood Brougham Restoration
Post by: cadillacmike68 on December 21, 2017, 03:55:01 AM
"displeasure"? I beg your pardon! LOL! My little mortar magnet got me around the world several times and into out of some unpleasant places. But those C17s are faster and quieter for sure.


It might have had something to do with the fact that on those trips we were crammed in so tight that sardines were laughing at us, with rucksack, helmet, weapons, and the heavy but also uncomfortable body armor.

Enjoy your present, you deserve it. Nice original condition that I can tell. I was missing my baby for 7 months this year while getting the engine overhauled:

http://forums.cadillaclasalleclub.org/index.php?topic=145138.0
Title: Re: Laurie's 1970 Fleetwood Brougham Restoration
Post by: Dan LeBlanc on December 21, 2017, 06:59:37 AM
Hi Laurie

The key to preserving your car in the pop up garage will be to keep a box fan running in there at all times when the car is in there and the door is closed.  Air circulation is key.

I used one for a winter to store a project and moisture condenses and freezes on the inside without proper air circulation.  There are some things i had to do over because of the effects of moisture in storage.
Title: Re: Laurie's 1970 Fleetwood Brougham Restoration
Post by: Dan LeBlanc on December 21, 2017, 07:07:01 AM
What a nice car. 

I drive a 70 deVille convertible and find it extremely comfortable, powerful, and more than capable of being driven all day long with ease.
Title: Re: Laurie's 1970 Fleetwood Brougham Restoration
Post by: 76eldo on December 21, 2017, 07:12:33 AM
Pull out the back seat.  On my 70 there was a build sheet back there.

Brian
Title: Re: Laurie's 1970 Fleetwood Brougham Restoration
Post by: lexi on December 21, 2017, 07:54:31 AM
Dan is correct. Without that air flow you're done. Don't even think of using a 'pop up' to store your car, at least not without air circulation. You would be better to leave the vehicle uncovered, given the choice. Other posts on this elsewhere in the Forum. Basically, without air movement the enclosure becomes one large humidity cabinet. Clay/Lexi
Title: Re: Laurie's 1970 Fleetwood Brougham Restoration
Post by: Cape Cod Fleetwood on December 21, 2017, 10:54:11 AM


It might have had something to do with the fact that on those trips we were crammed in so tight that sardines were laughing at us, with rucksack, helmet, weapons, and the heavy but also uncomfortable body armor.

Enjoy your present, you deserve it. Nice original condition that I can tell. I was missing my baby for 7 months this year while getting the engine overhauled:

http://forums.cadillaclasalleclub.org/index.php?topic=145138.0

Yeah that "might" have something to do with it Mike, LOL! Thank you for your service...
I don't have the time now to read 6 pages on your thread, what was the bottom line, what do you
think caused the failure?
Title: Re: Laurie's 1970 Fleetwood Brougham Restoration
Post by: Cape Cod Fleetwood on December 21, 2017, 10:59:04 AM
What a nice car. 

I drive a 70 deVille convertible and find it extremely comfortable, powerful, and more than capable of being driven all day long with ease.

Thank you!  :-*

Title: Re: Laurie's 1970 Fleetwood Brougham Restoration
Post by: Cape Cod Fleetwood on December 21, 2017, 11:09:34 AM
Thanks for the info on air circulation, makes sense. I did all my own electrical on this house, I have 2 20a circuits up in the attic just hanging around doing nothing. I can send one outside to the portable garage changing to a GFCI breaker and switching to U12-2 at a yet to be installed junction box before the power goes outside. One of my guys does great 'metal' work, hand rails, etc. Maybe he could make a 'box' that could be attached to the frame that would hold a fan.... weight would need to be considered. Thanks for the tip!

As far as just leaving the car uncovered, you may have noticed a huge oak tree right beside it. Bird $hit, enormous leaf drop in the fall, and numerous falling branches in winter winds or summer hurricane type wind. That's why the padding, in case a big branch hits it. Also why a portable garage would be upgraded to heavier 'roof' material and support.
Title: Re: Laurie's 1970 Fleetwood Brougham Restoration
Post by: Cape Cod Fleetwood on December 21, 2017, 12:39:36 PM
Thanks guys, I really appreciate the info! Wish I had seen these responses before I wrapped her up for the winter.  :( Thanks again, very much.
Title: Re: Laurie's 1970 Fleetwood Brougham Restoration
Post by: Cape Cod Fleetwood on December 21, 2017, 12:47:25 PM
I concur 100% and DO get the Cadillac Shop manual for your mechanic and tell him NOT to think Chevrolet when working on your car and it's engine.  They both have internal combustion engines, yes, but there are many differences and different ways of doing things between Cadillac and Chevy that have taken many Chevy-oriented owners and mechanics by surprise.

Shop manual ---
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1970-CADILLAC-SHOP-MANUAL-ALL-SERIES-A-NICE-FACTORY-ORIGINAL/310356700288?hash=item4842b36c80:m:mXLbNNZ_q373QJjXhdnWRsg&vxp=mtr

Fisher Body manual ---
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1970-FISHER-BODY-FACTORY-SERVICE-MANUAL-BUICK-CADILLAC-CHEVY-OLDS-PONTIAC-SHOP/302558870263?hash=item4671e9faf7:g:IR4AAOSwKfVXKovQ&vxp=mtr

Gold mines of information!  Cheap at twice the price.

Arrived today!
Title: Re: Laurie's 1970 Fleetwood Brougham Restoration
Post by: Cape Cod Fleetwood on December 21, 2017, 12:50:41 PM
I did a minor cleaning of the car before it got wrapped up, just to get the junk out, and found this.

I think in some states we're legally married now....
Title: Re: Laurie's 1970 Fleetwood Brougham Restoration
Post by: 35-709 on December 21, 2017, 03:55:03 PM
 ;D  That car looks like it is getting to be a better deal all the time!  Going to have it appraised?
Title: Re: Laurie's 1970 Fleetwood Brougham Restoration
Post by: chrisntam on December 21, 2017, 05:07:19 PM
Agreed!

I wish this forum had a poll, we'd poll the audience to see if they think it's real or not.  The tie in is that it was found in a Cadillac.   ;)
Title: Re: Laurie's 1970 Fleetwood Brougham Restoration
Post by: signart on December 21, 2017, 06:24:59 PM
That padding is a sponge. Those "sponges" will draw moisture and the tarp will insure that they stay moist.  I am glad you are happy with your new treasure that you have found and worked for. Thanks for your service also. I am afraid you will regret storing your Cadillac in that manner in a few weeks.
Good luck. 
Title: Re: Laurie's 1970 Fleetwood Brougham Restoration
Post by: Cape Cod Fleetwood on December 21, 2017, 07:28:36 PM
My Facebook page is CRAZY about that ring... 'yes' when I feel like being laughed at like a circus clown I'll bring it to a jeweler for an opinion. If its worth a buck I'm still wearing it, especially to car shows!

And I'm scouting places to have The Ark painted/roof replaced, etc. Everything from Hyannis Vintage (Mecum/Barret-Jackson cars) to Cape Cod Tech. Where I am going with this car, 'local' stuff only. I priced out replacement 'vintage' tires, $205 each, yikes.
Title: Re: Laurie's 1970 Fleetwood Brougham Restoration
Post by: Cape Cod Fleetwood on December 21, 2017, 07:32:24 PM
That padding is a sponge. Those "sponges" will draw moisture and the tarp will insure that they stay moist.  I am glad you are happy with your new treasure that you have found and worked for. Thanks for your service also. I am afraid you will regret storing your Cadillac in that manner in a few weeks.
Good luck.

If I don't use the padding, the "ink" (camo pattern) may transfer to the paint, and any branches that come off that tree beside it in gale winds could dimple the hood or trunk... The car 'has' to stay where it is. What to do? Laurie?
Title: Re: Laurie's 1970 Fleetwood Brougham Restoration
Post by: 35-709 on December 21, 2017, 08:36:36 PM
Try Hankook 235/75R15 or Cooper Trendsetters, same size.  There aren't a whole lot of choices out there anymore but there are a few.  Both the Hankook and the Cooper come in a narrow whitewall, maybe not the exact factory correct whitewall width for the '70 but no one will care, they'll look good.  I prefer the Hankooks but cost and ease of finding one or the other may play a part in your area.  Other brands are out there but not as easy to find and/or are more expensive.

If you want to go top of the line in a white wall, get a set of Michelins through Diamondback Tires and have them put the whitewall of your choice on the tire --- but NOW you're talking expensive.  You CAN get Michelins in a blackwall 237/75R15 most anywhere but Cadillacs look better with and deserve a whitewall IMO.

www.dbtires.com
Title: Re: Laurie's 1970 Fleetwood Brougham Restoration
Post by: Cape Cod Fleetwood on December 21, 2017, 11:23:55 PM
35-709, are you ready for what a 'car snob' I am? When I go to a car show the 1st 2 things I look at are the tires and the battery (if the hood is open). If they're not 'correct', I move on to the next car. When I see old Pony's with Hankook's or 70's Mopars with DieHards (or worse, Interstate) somewhere a puppy dies.

It has Coopers on it now, they need to be replaced pretty soon.
Title: Re: Laurie's 1970 Fleetwood Brougham Restoration
Post by: Dan LeBlanc on December 22, 2017, 07:53:01 AM
Honestly, Laurie.  I think you're better off with a little debris falling on it that likely won't dent it . . . we're talking some real metal here, not recycled pop cans.  I'm sure at one point in it's life it's spent a some time out doors.

Whatever will fall on it heavy enough to dent it, will dent it though the padding.

My 62 Coupe was on my front lawn near a tree for a winter in Eastern New Brunswick.  We had 6 feet of snow that winter.  It survived without even a scratch.
Title: Re: Laurie's 1970 Fleetwood Brougham Restoration
Post by: 76eldo on December 22, 2017, 08:43:22 AM
The correct size whitewall on a Cadillac is a must in my opinion.
If you are going to drive the car every day and will wear out the more expensive tires in like three years that's a different story.

If you are driving the car 1000 to 2000 miles a year like a lot of us then the cost of the correct tires divided by 10 years is a negligible difference in my opinion.

Brian
Title: Re: Laurie's 1970 Fleetwood Brougham Restoration
Post by: slowpoke17 on December 22, 2017, 02:18:53 PM
Nice car Laurie! Congratulations on the new ride. I can relate to what you've posted and wanting the car nearby, I find some joy every time I go in my garage. I just look at my cars and even though they are now in storage I just like to see them every now and then and look forward to Spring. Regarding the tires; in my opinion some one who is nicely dressed  but wearing the wrong shoes just messes everything up. A nicely detailed car needs the right tire and wheels to complete the picture.
Title: Re: Laurie's 1970 Fleetwood Brougham Restoration
Post by: Cape Cod Fleetwood on December 22, 2017, 03:12:10 PM
Regarding the tires; in my opinion some one who is nicely dressed  but wearing the wrong shoes just messes everything up.

*PRECISELY*! Thank you for checking my block.  ;D
Title: Re: Laurie's 1970 Fleetwood Brougham Restoration
Post by: Cape Cod Fleetwood on December 23, 2017, 02:46:09 PM
SO, without access to the RPO codes, #1) the Fleetwood was either born blue and the 028S interior option (no accounting for some people's taste) was selected, or #2) it was born Adriatic Turqoise or Lucerne Aqua Firemist with same proper interior option and someone tried to paint it blue. Then someone else tried to return it to green, ergo Lucerne Agua... and using Behr paint I think.

What was torturing me was the blue dash. Cadillac in those days suggested an interior that would compliment the factory paint as the dash would 'mirror' it. The interior is the original Dumbarton Turquoise. All of the old photo's I've seen on line with that interior - had a blue dash. Green dashboards came with the dark green interior option.

After another 3 hours of study I'll be able to sleep tonight, the blue dash is 'correct'.

And its ugly.

And its evidently "Lucerne Aqua Firemist" (#93) the color I want, regardless of RPO code, it was the color of my dad's car.

What if - I had the dash painted with 93? Not 'correct', but it would match the medium turqoise dumbarton interior better than blue. Thoughts?

The replacement roof needs to be a dual seam padded roof "cross grain", black.

I spent HOURS on the Summit Racing website, comparing their product codes to the same at the AC Delco website. They have EVERYTHING I need AC Delco except for the oil pan gasket. And they have the correct Coker tires... with free shipping. CARiD offers a 10% veterans discount but you pay for shipping, Summit is the way to go for me, they had the best prices. And yes I tried to beat them on other sights, futile.

The fancy schmancy autobody I reached out to via email locally (Mecum/Barret type resto's) were initially pleased to hear from me. When I sent them photo's and underlined my financial non-ability to make this a Concours level restoration, they went silent. Christmas time? Could be. Non intere$t on their part now? Far more likely. A dear old friend has juice with a north shore voke that has won numerous awards for body work, my 'cost' is materials only. There's some doubt if they could do the roof... stay tuned. And as long as the body is being done, is there any reason not to replace all the exterior emblems at this time? I'll need them for the roof. And the "FLEETWOOD" badging is missing from both front doors, but the holes are there! Is there a preferred supplier of such items?

There's an amazing array of interior carpet replacement suppliers on eBay. And several interior parts 'new' in their original packaging. Big money. If I change the carpets it will make the seats look worse I think. But I haven't vacuumed and shampooed them yet either, and shined up the leather inserts...

First car show is 17Jun18, the clock is ticking. Thank you for taking the time to read this!
Laurie!
Title: Re: Laurie's 1970 Fleetwood Brougham Restoration
Post by: Caddyholic on December 23, 2017, 08:41:58 PM
What does the data tag say the color was from factory?
Title: Re: Laurie's 1970 Fleetwood Brougham Restoration
Post by: Cape Cod Fleetwood on December 23, 2017, 11:49:17 PM
What does the data tag say the color was from factory?

That would make it too easy. No RPO codes on the glove box or door, never looked under the back seat and its all bundled up outside for the winter now so I can't look under the hood.
Title: Re: Laurie's 1970 Fleetwood Brougham Restoration
Post by: Dan LeBlanc on December 24, 2017, 07:00:41 AM
This plate under the hood is what you're looking for. Cadillac didn't put anything in the glove box with codes at that time.

You can also.order the build sheet for your car from Allied Vaughn for $50
Title: Re: Laurie's 1970 Fleetwood Brougham Restoration
Post by: cadillacmike68 on December 24, 2017, 12:53:20 PM
Yeah that "might" have something to do with it Mike, LOL! Thank you for your service...
I don't have the time now to read 6 pages on your thread, what was the bottom line, what do you
think caused the failure?

What do you mean you don't have time?  :P

BLUF:

Moisture got into the space between the bottom of the intake manifold and the intake manifold gasket. My intake was not painted on the bottom, it was just bare cast iron. Now it is ceramic coated so this will never happen again. Moisture is a daily fact of life here in FL, and for several years the car was in the shop having a complete body restoration.  I suspect it was never run up to full operating temp which would have boiled off any moisture, The bottom of the intake developed rust droplets which fell onto the gasket which, when I started running it again, burned a fist sized hole into the intake manifold gasket. All that crap went straight into the engine and ate up the bearings, particularly # 6 rod bearing. Pics:

BTW; The only thing "outrageous" about a 1970 Fleetwood Brougham (or any FWB for that matter) is that most undersized garages here in FL cannot fit one!!!

Merry Christmas!



Title: Re: Laurie's 1970 Fleetwood Brougham Restoration
Post by: chrisntam on December 24, 2017, 08:53:11 PM
Here's my data plate, let's see yours!

I wish mine said 383S and not just 383....   ::)

Title: Re: Laurie's 1970 Fleetwood Brougham Restoration
Post by: cadillacmike68 on December 25, 2017, 12:02:28 AM
It's in the engine compartment base of the windshield drivers side. It's almost a certainty that your car was originally the turquoise, NObody would order the turquoise seats with any other color.
Title: Re: Laurie's 1970 Fleetwood Brougham Restoration
Post by: Cape Cod Fleetwood on December 25, 2017, 12:38:47 AM
What do you mean you don't have time?  :P

BLUF:

Moisture got into the space between the bottom of the intake manifold and the intake manifold gasket. My intake was not painted on the bottom, it was just bare cast iron. Now it is ceramic coated so this will never happen again. Moisture is a daily fact of life here in FL, and for several years the car was in the shop having a complete body restoration.  I suspect it was never run up to full operating temp which would have boiled off any moisture, The bottom of the intake developed rust droplets which fell onto the gasket which, when I started running it again, burned a fist sized hole into the intake manifold gasket. All that crap went straight into the engine and ate up the bearings, particularly # 6 rod bearing. Pics:

BTW; The only thing "outrageous" about a 1970 Fleetwood Brougham (or any FWB for that matter) is that most undersized garages here in FL cannot fit one!!!

Merry Christmas!

Oh Mike, what a disaster! I'm so sorry. I'll be moving to FL soon, next 3 years or so. Good thing I'm a contractor, I can build my own garage to any spec. Merry Christmas to you too!
Title: Re: Laurie's 1970 Fleetwood Brougham Restoration
Post by: Cape Cod Fleetwood on December 25, 2017, 01:01:54 AM
It's in the engine compartment base of the windshield drivers side. It's almost a certainty that your car was originally the turquoise, NObody would order the turquoise seats with any other color.

Bad taste can be expensive Mike. That 028S interior was a 'suggested' option with Adriatic Turquoise and Lucerne Aqua Firemist. Saw photos of car painted Adriatic/Corinthian blue with the 028S interior too. Hey, it was the 70's. And at least it solved the mystery of the blue dash with the green interior. The idea of unwrapping that car ALONE to look for that plate makes me weak in the knees. But it might solve the problem once and for all. My dad's car was Aqua. Laurie
Title: Re: Laurie's 1970 Fleetwood Brougham Restoration
Post by: Cape Cod Fleetwood on December 25, 2017, 01:03:22 AM
This plate under the hood is what you're looking for. Cadillac didn't put anything in the glove box with codes at that time.

You can also.order the build sheet for your car from Allied Vaughn for $50

Great info, thank you! Laurie!
Title: Re: Laurie's 1970 Fleetwood Brougham Restoration
Post by: Cape Cod Fleetwood on December 25, 2017, 01:10:49 AM
This plate under the hood is what you're looking for. Cadillac didn't put anything in the glove box with codes at that time.

You can also.order the build sheet for your car from Allied Vaughn for $50

Dan I Googled 'Allied Vaughn', its a data management company, didn't see anything "Cadillac" there, what am I missing?
Title: Re: Laurie's 1970 Fleetwood Brougham Restoration
Post by: Steve Passmore on December 25, 2017, 03:42:26 AM
They look after the records for GM. Try this link.

http://www.gmmediaarchive.com/?page=2
Title: Re: Laurie's 1970 Fleetwood Brougham Restoration
Post by: P. Manoogian on December 25, 2017, 09:30:22 AM
Was that 70 recently for sale on the North Shore of MA? (Danvers I think)?

Title: Re: Laurie's 1970 Fleetwood Brougham Restoration
Post by: Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621 on December 25, 2017, 11:10:11 AM
Dan I Googled 'Allied Vaughn', its a data management company, didn't see anything "Cadillac" there, what am I missing?

Keep in mind, the only items revealed by the build record that are not already documented on the data plate are the key & dealer outlet codes. Whether having that information is worth $50 is your decision.

If you post a close up of your data plate, many here will happy to decipher it for you.
Title: Re: Laurie's 1970 Fleetwood Brougham Restoration
Post by: Cape Cod Fleetwood on December 25, 2017, 11:58:18 AM
Was that 70 recently for sale on the North Shore of MA? (Danvers I think)?

That's the one! Do you have any info on it?
Title: Re: Laurie's 1970 Fleetwood Brougham Restoration
Post by: Cape Cod Fleetwood on December 25, 2017, 12:03:37 PM
Thanks guys, gale force winds out there now, gusting to 70 and a lot of lumber coming off that tree, which is why I put the padding on the trunk and hood. If I try to pull off the tarp/blankets to open the hood now that stuff will take off like the Space Shuttle. Next calm wind day, and if I have help, I'll open the hood and look for the data plate. Thanks so much and Merry Christmas!
Title: Re: Laurie's 1970 Fleetwood Brougham Restoration
Post by: P. Manoogian on December 25, 2017, 01:05:58 PM
No, but I saw it on CL for some time. I live not too far from where it was. I hope you bring it to Larz Anderson in May or June for Cadillac Day.


Are you pleased with its condition?


Title: Re: Laurie's 1970 Fleetwood Brougham Restoration
Post by: cadillacmike68 on December 25, 2017, 10:42:42 PM
Oh Mike, what a disaster! I'm so sorry. I'll be moving to FL soon, next 3 years or so. Good thing I'm a contractor, I can build my own garage to any spec. Merry Christmas to you too!


Thanks, just finishing up a huge fest - I managed to repel all the invaders and am now trying to relax.

The 1968 is running once again. Went from Tampa to Kissimmee for the Old Town Sat night cruise where I spotted this:

Hey - Don't shoot the messenger. At least they are both Cadillac 500 engines...

Laurie,

Don't forget to download this free data book for 1970:

https://www.gmheritagecenter.com/gm-heritage-archive/vehicle-information-kits.html

Click on "show" next to Cadillac and then right click and save the PDF for 1970 to your computer.


Title: Re: Laurie's 1970 Fleetwood Brougham Restoration
Post by: cadillacmike68 on December 25, 2017, 10:49:08 PM
Don't rush, we can wait for better weather to solve the mystery of the paint and trim codes. Hope you had a nice (and warm) Christmas. It was 70-75 or so here in WC FL.
Title: Re: Laurie's 1970 Fleetwood Brougham Restoration
Post by: Cape Cod Fleetwood on December 26, 2017, 12:17:10 AM
If this question is in the wrong spot, I'm sure it will be moved.

Ok folks, what paint manufacturer to use when the time comes. Again, this is not a car headed for the
Concours de Elegance event, local shows, but its my baby too. Any and all info on paint/clear coat is greatly appreciated. The car is 'probably' going to be done at 1 of 2 vokes, I can supply the parts, labor is free. Looking forward to lots of info, thanks in advance. Laurie!
Title: Re: Laurie's 1970 Fleetwood Brougham Restoration
Post by: Cape Cod Fleetwood on December 26, 2017, 12:23:08 AM
Don't rush, we can wait for better weather to solve the mystery of the paint and trim codes. Hope you had a nice (and warm) Christmas. It was 70-75 or so here in WC FL.

I'll be polite and wipe the blood off your knife when I remove it from my back Army....
The mainland got real snow today, 4-8" depending on where you were. I'm 50 miles out to
sea here on Cape Cod. Sunny, then snow showers, then sunny, mid 40's. 70mph winds early,
yikes. Laurie!
Title: Re: Laurie's 1970 Fleetwood Brougham Restoration
Post by: Cape Cod Fleetwood on December 26, 2017, 12:45:24 AM
No, but I saw it on CL for some time. I live not too far from where it was. I hope you bring it to Larz Anderson in May or June for Cadillac Day.


Are you pleased with its condition?

who's Larz Anderson? It will be in the Hyannis Father's Day Car Show on June 18th!
For a 47 year old car I was *THRILLED* with its condition, straight as an arrow, never been hit, engine is 100% and God knows how neglected its been. When it comes out of hybernation, and before paint, Scott is taking down the oil and tranny pans, (no flushing) fresh oils, gaskets, filters. He says the anti-freeze is fine but I want it dumped and refilled, no backflush, and a new thermostat. I'll be doing plugs and wires, all AC Delco, air filter, etc. And I'll change the power steering fluid the old fashioned way. Am I pi$$ing away several hundred dollars, probably. But I'll feel better knowing 'where' the car is on its mntx. And a new battery too. I *REALLY* want to go 'reproduction' on the battery, $500?  ???

Laurie!
Title: Re: Laurie's 1970 Fleetwood Brougham Restoration
Post by: P. Manoogian on December 26, 2017, 07:11:06 AM
Larz Anderson is an automobile museum in Brookline that features different "days" such as British Car Day, Japanese Car Day and Cadillac Day. Cadilllac Day is where everyone that is anyone in the Massachusetts, Connecticut, and Rhode Island Cadillac scene brings their pride and joy or just themselves. You learn a lot,meet great people, and have lots of fun.


PM
Title: Re: Laurie's 1970 Fleetwood Brougham Restoration
Post by: Cape Cod Fleetwood on December 26, 2017, 09:06:14 AM
Larz Anderson is an automobile museum in Brookline that features different "days" such as British Car Day, Japanese Car Day and Cadillac Day. Cadilllac Day is where everyone that is anyone in the Massachusetts, Connecticut, and Rhode Island Cadillac scene brings their pride and joy or just themselves. You learn a lot,meet great people, and have lots of fun.
PM

That sounds like fun! Something to think about going forward, thank you!
Laurie!
Title: Re: Laurie's 1970 Fleetwood Brougham Restoration
Post by: Bobby B on December 26, 2017, 12:13:53 PM
Laurie,
  Hi...Woah..Lotta' question there! My sincerest advice would be to ask the person in charge of spraying your car. A.K.A., the Man behind the Gun. His experience in painting all these years, plus what product he likes to spray, is a big plus. The sky's the limit if you're shopping price, but you usually get what you pay for. There are SO many products out there from primers to sealers to paint to clear coat, and everyone has their own preference. Basically a matter of taste, experience, and what you're comfortable working with. They also know the products that they DON'T like to use, and why. Good Luck with your restoration!
                                                             Bobby 
Title: Re: Laurie's 1970 Fleetwood Brougham Restoration
Post by: Cape Cod Fleetwood on December 26, 2017, 12:28:00 PM
Thanks for your response Bobby!

And I just found out one of the vokes will only use a 'water borne' paint...
Is this a bad thing?
Title: Re: Laurie's 1970 Fleetwood Brougham Restoration
Post by: Cape Cod Fleetwood on December 26, 2017, 12:33:47 PM


Thanks, just finishing up a huge fest - I managed to repel all the invaders and am now trying to relax.

The 1968 is running once again. Went from Tampa to Kissimmee for the Old Town Sat night cruise where I spotted this:

Hey - Don't shoot the messenger. At least they are both Cadillac 500 engines...

Laurie,

Don't forget to download this free data book for 1970:

https://www.gmheritagecenter.com/gm-heritage-archive/vehicle-information-kits.html

Click on "show" next to Cadillac and then right click and save the PDF for 1970 to your computer.

Why would someone do that to an innocent car?  :'(
I have that date book on my laptop already, seems I refer to it daily now.  ;)
Title: Re: Laurie's 1970 Fleetwood Brougham Restoration
Post by: Bobby B on December 26, 2017, 12:34:43 PM
Thanks for your response Bobby!

And I just found out one of the vokes will only use a 'water borne' paint...
Is this a bad thing?

Personally, I won't use it. Unfortunately, I just opened up a can of worms  >:D.......
                                                                                      Bobby
Title: Re: Laurie's 1970 Fleetwood Brougham Restoration
Post by: Cape Cod Fleetwood on December 26, 2017, 12:44:18 PM
Getting my popcorn ready....
Title: Re: Laurie's 1970 Fleetwood Brougham Restoration
Post by: Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621 on December 26, 2017, 12:44:46 PM
Water based paint is becoming more common with manufacturers today.

I would consult with the instructor for further information. 
Title: Re: Laurie's 1970 Fleetwood Brougham Restoration
Post by: Bobby B on December 26, 2017, 12:54:46 PM
I'm in NJ, so solvent based paint can still be sprayed. Of course BC/CC is always preferred, but if I'm doing something older I still like the look of Single Stage Acrylic Enamel like Centari. Solid colors are pretty straightforward, metallics are a little more tricky to get them to lay out evenly, especially Silver. My Jobber still carries Centari, but BC/CC is the High Tech way to go. This stuff is a No-No in California, that's why I won't move there >:D...
                                                                                                                                                                            Bobby
Title: Re: Laurie's 1970 Fleetwood Brougham Restoration
Post by: lexi on December 26, 2017, 01:44:10 PM
The Larz Anderson Auto Museum is a phenomenal place. Here is picture I took of the 'garage' in 2013 where the cars are stored. Very picturesque. Clay/Lexi
Title: Re: Laurie's 1970 Fleetwood Brougham Restoration
Post by: slowpoke17 on December 26, 2017, 03:37:21 PM
Hi Laurie, I just posted some Fleetwood fender emblems in the for sale section. Not sure if they are the correct ones for your year, they are in good condition and as you said hard to find.
Title: Re: Laurie's 1970 Fleetwood Brougham Restoration
Post by: P. Manoogian on December 26, 2017, 06:21:52 PM
This past summer I was the first to arrive. For me it was the debut of my 7 year restoration . It was a glorious day for the hobby.
Title: Re: Laurie's 1970 Fleetwood Brougham Restoration
Post by: TC on December 26, 2017, 07:37:24 PM
Water borne paint is just the basecoat. The clear is still solvent based. I do some painting with both and the solvent based sprays easier. Use the same line of base, clear, reducer  and activator. The difference in the quality of the clear is basically how long it lasts due to its UV protection.

Probably the best advice was already given.  Use what the painter likes. He has sprayed it in his booth and is familiar with the products flash times and when to recoat. Plus if there is a problem, he can’t blame it on “your paint”.
But the best of painters can spray just about anything you give them.
Title: Re: Laurie's 1970 Fleetwood Brougham Restoration
Post by: chrisntam on December 26, 2017, 08:44:51 PM
Single letters on each fender for a '70.

F L E E T W O O D

Title: Re: Laurie's 1970 Fleetwood Brougham Restoration
Post by: cadillacmike68 on December 26, 2017, 10:33:43 PM
Single letters on each fender for a '70.

F L E E T W O O D

At least 18 small holes drilled into each fender for those letters!?!
Title: Re: Laurie's 1970 Fleetwood Brougham Restoration
Post by: Cape Cod Fleetwood on December 27, 2017, 12:30:39 AM
The Larz Anderson Auto Museum is a phenomenal place. Here is picture I took of the 'garage' in 2013 where the cars are stored. Very picturesque. Clay/Lexi

Beautiful! The Ark will need to be 'done' before such an elaborate event!
Title: Re: Laurie's 1970 Fleetwood Brougham Restoration
Post by: Cape Cod Fleetwood on December 27, 2017, 12:31:46 AM
This past summer I was the first to arrive. For me it was the debut of my 7 year restoration . It was a glorious day for the hobby.

Pure rolling art work! You must be so proud! Laurie!
Title: Re: Laurie's 1970 Fleetwood Brougham Restoration
Post by: Cape Cod Fleetwood on December 27, 2017, 12:32:59 AM
Hi Laurie, I just posted some Fleetwood fender emblems in the for sale section. Not sure if they are the correct ones for your year, they are in good condition and as you said hard to find.

Incorrect but I appreciate the thought! Laurie!
Title: Re: Laurie's 1970 Fleetwood Brougham Restoration
Post by: Cape Cod Fleetwood on December 27, 2017, 12:40:37 AM
At least 18 small holes drilled into each fender for those letters!?!

Pre drilled, pics below, and found the letters more reasonably priced at Caddy-Parts.com, muchos gracias to whom ever gave me the link. Now do I need the 'thingies' to hold the script in place? Don't have my body manual yet but its been shipped. Get used to the word "thingies" its my default noun when I don't know what I'm talking about. What size thingies?

Also a heads up on replica batteries.... restoration battery is not taking any orders and AAB doesn't list a 1970 battery. But batterycentralmall.com has them, at a price.

Laurie (see mods, I "try" to remember to sign all my posts!)

Title: Re: Laurie's 1970 Fleetwood Brougham Restoration
Post by: Cape Cod Fleetwood on December 27, 2017, 12:44:53 AM
Is the trunk, not the fender, supposed to have any insignia/script on it? I know the trunk lock has the wreath and crest. I saw nothing in the data book or the 1970 brochure. Thank you for reading! Laurie!

Title: Re: Laurie's 1970 Fleetwood Brougham Restoration
Post by: Cape Cod Fleetwood on December 27, 2017, 01:19:13 AM
I'm so glad I scheduled this week off from work months ago, who knew? Hope to get all my ducks and parts in a row this week.

Tires - there's no way around this, its Corker 62880. I tried EVERY tire seller...I even tried Craig's List around the country.

Script/insignia's - Caddy-Parts.com has the best prices

Replacement carpet - think I'll 'cheap out' on this and go eBay, but only after I give what's there a good vacuuming and a shampoo with my Hoover. Same for the upholstery. I'm afraid if I put in 'new' carpet it will make the interior look worse? Thoughts? The headliner is really faded. If I'm smart, I'll leave the interior for next year and concentrate the time and money on the outside for now. This assumes when I take that KMart fake leather wrap off the steering wheel its not a disaster....

Replacement vinyl top - another cheap out with eBay. What do you think of this? Remember this car will be a poser and not exposed to any extreme elements. Elk or Levant texture is correct?
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1965-1970-Cadillac-Fleetwood-Vinyl-Top-4-Door-Sedan-Full-Top/371670316228?hash=item568946f4c4:g:lrkAAOxye3BRyCE4 (https://www.ebay.com/itm/1965-1970-Cadillac-Fleetwood-Vinyl-Top-4-Door-Sedan-Full-Top/371670316228?hash=item568946f4c4:g:lrkAAOxye3BRyCE4)

Both vokes use a waterborne spray paint, period.

Thanks for reading! Laurie!
Title: Re: Laurie's 1970 Fleetwood Brougham Restoration
Post by: 35-709 on December 27, 2017, 08:45:59 AM
Might wanna wait to put those letters on until you get the rust fixed at the bottom of the fender(s).  They'll only have to come off again.  Fix it soon, it will only get worse and you will no doubt find the rust is worse than appears on the surface already.  The body shop that fixes the rust will have, or know where to get, the clips that hold the letters on.  If they don't, request a catalog from Restoration Specialties --- http://www.restorationspecialties.com/

On second thought, get their catalog anyway, you can't have too many catalogs when dealing with old cars!
       
Make sure you tell them not to fill those holes when the repair is done which often happens, a real pain the neck to find them again.  If they have to weld in a steel patch that eliminates those holes, have them cut the old piece out whole so you can use it as a template (or to make a template) to make the new holes in the proper place.   

 
Title: Re: Laurie's 1970 Fleetwood Brougham Restoration
Post by: cadillac ken on December 27, 2017, 09:04:19 AM
Water borne paint is just the basecoat. The clear is still solvent based. I do some painting with both and the solvent based sprays easier. Use the same line of base, clear, reducer  and activator. The difference in the quality of the clear is basically how long it lasts due to its UV protection.

Probably the best advice was already given.  Use what the painter likes. He has sprayed it in his booth and is familiar with the products flash times and when to recoat. Plus if there is a problem, he canít blame it on ďyour paintĒ.
But the best of painters can spray just about anything you give them.

TC is spot on.  I would only add that you go with one of the better paint systems.  The higher cost of the product is due to the research the company invests in.  In my shop I use DuPont (now Axalta).  The Chroma base is a solvent base color and the clear I still like the #7779.  As TC said, the UV is your biggest enemy.  Despite the car may not see a lot of daily use in the sun, the better clears will last for 15 to 20 years.  I have done cars with the DuPont/Axalta paint system and they still look great from 10 years ago.

I would reccommend sticking with the same paint "system" throughout the job.  Primers, value shade sealers, base coat, and clear from the same company.   
Title: Re: Laurie's 1970 Fleetwood Brougham Restoration
Post by: Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621 on December 27, 2017, 09:17:17 AM
Crest lock cover w/wreath on decklid only. No other ornamentation.

Fleetwood lettering contained in lower right bumper insert panel which is body color.

(https://cdn2.mecum.com/auctions/kc0311/kc0311-104860/images/kc0311-104860_3.jpg?1299881688000)

Title: Re: Laurie's 1970 Fleetwood Brougham Restoration
Post by: BJM on December 27, 2017, 09:57:21 AM
Why is Clear Coat (CC) so necessary?  It's still paint so to speak, correct?  So it can still scratch, require buffing and/or wax.  I am not expert. 

I own 2 Reattas and dabble in Buick Reattas and there are a LOT with CC issues. I guess the paint is fine, but the CC issues make the cars look bad. 

Factory paint jobs had a certain level of thickness or coats. I assume Cadillacs received a "bit more" paint than a Chevy or Ford. But doing it now, why not just put on 2 more coats of paint for depth and protection and skip the CC ?  I am just asking.  What is the purpose of CC?
Title: Re: Laurie's 1970 Fleetwood Brougham Restoration
Post by: Highwayman68 on December 27, 2017, 10:16:01 AM
Replacement vinyl top - another cheap out with eBay. What do you think of this? Remember this car will be a poser and not exposed to any extreme elements. Elk or Levant texture is correct?
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1965-1970-Cadillac-Fleetwood-Vinyl-Top-4-Door-Sedan-Full-Top/371670316228?hash=item568946f4c4:g:lrkAAOxye3BRyCE4 (https://www.ebay.com/itm/1965-1970-Cadillac-Fleetwood-Vinyl-Top-4-Door-Sedan-Full-Top/371670316228?hash=item568946f4c4:g:lrkAAOxye3BRyCE4)

Both vokes use a waterborne spray paint, period.

Thanks for reading! Laurie!

I had the vinyl top replaced on my 68 Fleetwood by a local auto upholstery shop in Pittsburgh. He recognized the grain of the pattern and was able to get an exact replacement. I paid $850 for parts and labor. On my 68 the vinyl stops short of the windshield and doors by an inch and has metal grain pattern molding at the edge of the vinyl with screws and clips that needed to be removed, painted and then replaced that added to the price.

Mark
Title: Re: Laurie's 1970 Fleetwood Brougham Restoration
Post by: Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621 on December 27, 2017, 10:19:28 AM
Clearcoat technology has improved considerably over the last 30 years. Delamination issues were common in early GM clearcoat finishes which began in 1985 model year.

The main benefit of 2 stage BC/CC is improved shine, color depth and durability that is far superior to the lacquer paint finishes of the past which required considerably more effort to maintain. 

Cannot bypass the clearcoat step because the (base) color coat does not have the necessary components for gloss. The process is designed as a system, the stages are formulated to work together.
Title: Re: Laurie's 1970 Fleetwood Brougham Restoration
Post by: cadillac ken on December 27, 2017, 10:27:01 AM
Why is Clear Coat (CC) so necessary?  It's still paint so to speak, correct?  So it can still scratch, require buffing and/or wax.  I am not expert. 

I own 2 Reattas and dabble in Buick Reattas and there are a LOT with CC issues. I guess the paint is fine, but the CC issues make the cars look bad. 

Factory paint jobs had a certain level of thickness or coats. I assume Cadillacs received a "bit more" paint than a Chevy or Ford. But doing it now, why not just put on 2 more coats of paint for depth and protection and skip the CC ?  I am just asking.  What is the purpose of CC?

The base color coat is just that, color only.  No gloss. No UV protection.  The clear coat is there to protect the color from fading and "seal" in the metallic, pearls, etc. that would be exposed to the elements.  Most of the Clear coat issues are for two reasons: improper bonding of the clear to the base coat or; UV deterioration.  But it's a system.  Base coat without the proper clear coat is simply not going to live long without the clear top coat.

Paint thickness with these new coatings is based on the manufacturers (of the paint products) specifications.  More coats isn't necessarily better. 

As a side note, I had a friend that was a Reatta owner and I could have sworn he said those cars were painted in Lacquer (?).  He owned a 1955 Corvette and had restored a 1955 T-Bird so he was a "car guy" and I'm sure he would have known this if it were true.  If so the clear coat may have been applied at some point over the Lacquer color and that is something that needs to be done with a special bonding agent if they did indeed use the newer Urethane clear over the OEM Lacquer.

To add you are correct in assuming that base coat is "paint".  In fact professionally available vinyl sprays (through automotive paint supply stores to the trade) is just that, base coat with a UV additive to it.  So It lives just fine on the interior without a clear coat but it is UV protected.
Title: Re: Laurie's 1970 Fleetwood Brougham Restoration
Post by: TC on December 27, 2017, 12:23:54 PM
Cars need clear coat (CC)for the reasons explained but to clarify. Many of our paints are metallic and you cannot  wet sand and polish single stage ( metallic paints (no CC) after painting. With single stage, (SS) the metallic particles are too close to the surface and will sand away. CC is a protective layer over the basecoat and is approximately 2-3 mils thick (factory). CC also offers the option of doing a "paint correction" which is a fancy name for a process to remove small scratches and car wash swirls by polishing with compounds and polishes. Usually less than .5 mils of CC is removed during this process and the paint can look swirl free and new again.

Regarding the mention of CC and problems. GM had issues when they switched from lacquer to BC/CC in the mid 80s. Where the cars are stored and climate are all factors to how long a CC will last and in the early years, the cars in the sunny states did not last long as ones say for example ones from Seattle (cloudy all the time).

If you see CC failures around trim it is possible what you are seeing is a repair not holding up. Most of ours cars are 20+ years old and many have hit something during this time. Peeling around the base of side windows aka beltline moldings are common after a repair due to the extra labor involved to remove this trim. So more often than not, the trim is not removed. This causes a poor bond of the CC at the trim. Super expert masking before painting can reduce future problems but not the same as trim removal.  Where you see CC failure, I would measure the paint with a paint meter to see if it is thicker on those areas indication extra coats of paint and a repair. This is of course if the panel was not replaced with a new panel. But surrounding panels to the repair will also show more paint from blending the repair. 
Title: Re: Laurie's 1970 Fleetwood Brougham Restoration
Post by: P. Manoogian on December 27, 2017, 06:17:01 PM
It was a day I was looking forward to for years. Since then and at other shows I have found that the color is especially noticed by women and the guys compliment it on how straight it is.
Title: Re: Laurie's 1970 Fleetwood Brougham Restoration
Post by: Glen on December 28, 2017, 12:33:47 AM
On my 68 ELDO and the three 68 69 70 Eldorados I parted out the fender letters were held on by bending the pins over.  The letters can be removed and re installed a couple of time before they break off. 
Title: Re: Laurie's 1970 Fleetwood Brougham Restoration
Post by: cadillacmike68 on December 28, 2017, 04:32:08 PM
Pre drilled, pics below, and found the letters more reasonably priced at Caddy-Parts.com, muchos gracias to whom ever gave me the link. Now do I need the 'thingies' to hold the script in place? Don't have my body manual yet but its been shipped. Get used to the word "thingies" its my default noun when I don't know what I'm talking about. What size thingies?

Also a heads up on replica batteries.... restoration battery is not taking any orders and AAB doesn't list a 1970 battery. But batterycentralmall.com has them, at a price.

Laurie (see mods, I "try" to remember to sign all my posts!)

Until you get a "restoration battery", you can't go wrong with the correct size ACDelco batteries. 3-4 years free replacement on most and they fit correctly. All my cars have ACDelco batts and my 1968 has two.

The fenders, yes. that's where mine rusted 35 or so years ago. They should be taken care of before mounting the letters. The hold-ons, etc are sometimes called trim clips. The originals were at best single use, and a pain to get off. Maybe two small body nuts per letter - if they can be had in the small size needed would be easier to install and remove if needed. I wouldn't trust using only the double sided adhesive - You'll likely lose a few letters going down the road. I did!
Title: Re: Laurie's 1970 Fleetwood Brougham Restoration
Post by: Cape Cod Fleetwood on December 29, 2017, 02:10:10 AM
Hey guys, I appreciate all of your info SO MUCH, thank you!
Yes the car will be painted prior to the script going on, I was just hoping to get the correct 'thingies'
to hold on the script for when I drop the car off. Its going to a voke, one of 3.

I'll be getting the battery from batterycellmall.com, 6-8 weeks to delivery, which is fine. I don't know what's in it now for a battery, it starts...

Would the correct 'thingy' size be in the shop manual? Which has arrived along with the body manual and sales brochure.

Had a LONG chat with my mech today about the car. He said to get it painted etc before we start working on the engine. Minor stuff, changing ALL the fluids, filters, gaskets, complete tune up. He'll mount the Coker tires and install the battery at that time too.

Laurie!

Title: Re: Laurie's 1970 Fleetwood Brougham Restoration
Post by: Cape Cod Fleetwood on December 29, 2017, 02:19:14 AM
Thanks guys, really appreciate it. The vokes either "1 shot" or "2 shot". 1 shots are for the cars going to the used car dealers, the paint and clear coat are combined. 2 shots are for the nicer cars, paint, then clear coat. At least that's how I understood it...?
Laurie
Title: Re: Laurie's 1970 Fleetwood Brougham Restoration
Post by: Cape Cod Fleetwood on December 29, 2017, 02:31:32 AM
Crest lock cover w/wreath on decklid only. No other ornamentation.

Fleetwood lettering contained in lower right bumper insert panel which is body color.

(https://cdn2.mecum.com/auctions/kc0311/kc0311-104860/images/kc0311-104860_3.jpg?1299881688000)

YOU ROCK!  \m/   Thank you, Laurie!
Title: Re: Laurie's 1970 Fleetwood Brougham Restoration
Post by: Cape Cod Fleetwood on December 29, 2017, 02:33:17 AM
Anyone stuffing this gizmo under their distributor? Any reason to/not to?
Laurie?
Title: Re: Laurie's 1970 Fleetwood Brougham Restoration
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on December 29, 2017, 02:49:47 AM
For  some time, I had this system in my '56 Biarritz until the engine began to run bad. With the point I installed after removing the Pertronix, the engine ran much better.
Conclusion for me: Pertronix? never again.
Title: Re: Laurie's 1970 Fleetwood Brougham Restoration
Post by: TonyZappone #2624 on December 29, 2017, 05:03:06 AM
Pertonix installed '36 Pierce-Arrow, '58 Cad, 47 Cad, 15 years ago.  Cars never ran better, and continue to run beautifully.
Title: Re: Laurie's 1970 Fleetwood Brougham Restoration
Post by: V63 on December 29, 2017, 05:19:17 AM
There are two versions, red or black module. The red module is more resistant to failure.

This system is far from ideal, but overall I lean towards it over points. There is a noticeable improvement in performance.

I installed on a 68 472. Itís nice too that the engine appears authentic with it.

One part that needs improvement is the pertronix plastic rotor mounted trigger ring...the magnets fall out. I removed the clear tape they had on the ring over the magnets and coated with clear epoxy.

Verify too, that you have full 12 volts to the coil at all times (by-pass factory coil resistance) ...or you will have problems.

You could also put a factory delco OEM HEI distributor from a 472/500 1974 and up. These offer excellent service, but are a much larger assembly than yours...might have conflict with your smog pump A.I.R tubing.

Investigate MSD they make a true HEI system, and there is a mild street version. This would be ideal but more costly.

In closing...motivating my adaptation to pertronix...The quality of replacement points is nearing junk.

Title: Re: Laurie's 1970 Fleetwood Brougham Restoration
Post by: Jason Edge on December 29, 2017, 06:05:40 AM
For my 1964 Cadillac Coupe de Ville with 429 engine, I ran the Pertronix Ignitor II ignition unit and Flamethrower II coil for 5+ years, and opted for the Pertronix Ignitor III and Flamethrower III when I rebuilt the engine in May 2012, and both the II & III series worked flawlessly, both are easy to install, especially the III series, ignitor tucks under the distributor cap, and you can get the flamethrower coils in black so it keeps the original look under the hood. As previously noted, you will want to run a full switched volt source to it and bypass the resistor, or resistor wire to coil.
ps. You can see a comparison between the I, II & III series on a Help Page on the 63/64 Cadillac Website at http://6364cadillac.ning.com/profiles/blogs/pertronix-comparison. You will want to look up the correct part #'s for your model year application. Here is a direct link to these items on the Pertronix site: http://www.pertronix.com/prod/ig/default.aspx
Title: Re: Laurie's 1970 Fleetwood Brougham Restoration
Post by: Jeff Rose CLC #28373 on December 29, 2017, 07:34:30 AM
For me it wasnt the points. I had 2 condensors go bad within a few hundred miles. Both were new, right out of the box.
I just put in the base Petronix and I am running a stock coil on the 70. Will do the same on the 55 when I get to it.
Jeff
Title: Re: Laurie's 1970 Fleetwood Brougham Restoration
Post by: 76eldo on December 29, 2017, 07:39:59 AM
My cars, at least for now, are still running points and condenser.  As far as the stock/purist part of the equation, if it's a mod the fits under the distributor cap and no one sees it, it's not an issue for me.  My reluctance is that I grew up with cars with points.  With points and a condenser you generally will not get a total failure that will leave you on the side of the road.  Electronics can and will do that.

Why introduce the potential for electronic failure into a system that has been virtually trouble free on cars for billions of road miles?

One reason is the dwindling availability of quality points and condensers.  You can still find NOS Delco points on ebay but the source of condensers is suspect.  NOS Condensers can be bad simply because of time sitting on the shelf.  Still, I am leery of an aftermarket electronic device for spark.

Brian
Title: Re: Laurie's 1970 Fleetwood Brougham Restoration
Post by: 35-709 on December 29, 2017, 09:13:02 AM
I have installed Pertronix ignitions in several cars over the years, the latest was my (now sold) '73 Cadillac Caribou.  All of the installations have been trouble free.  I ran the Pertronix I in all of the cars I converted using the stock coil.  If I do another conversion someday I will probably go with the Pertronix II.  Your '70 will have a resistor wire from the firewall electrical connector (engine side) to the coil, as mentioned this wire must be bypassed as it reduces the voltage to the coil down to 7 +or- volts after the engine is started.  One good way is to tap into the pink 12 gauge ignition switch wire inside the car, leaving disconnected, or cutting off, the resistance wire that goes to the coil now.  That pink wire is the one that plugs into/becomes the resistance wire on engine side of the large plug-in wiring connector and is the ignition "run" wire from the ignition switch.     
Title: Re: Laurie's 1970 Fleetwood Brougham Restoration
Post by: 35-709 on December 29, 2017, 09:22:50 AM
"Would the correct 'thingy' size be in the shop manual? Which has arrived along with the body manual and sales brochure."

No, but it might be in the Fisher Body Manual --- at least what it looks like.  When you get the letters determine the size of the stud and look through that Restoration Specialties catalog I linked you to earlier.  Or, take it to the body shop that will be doing your work and ask them what clip they would use to retain the letters.  There are a zillion clips (plus or minus a few hundred) out there of all types and sizes, a good clip for yours shouldn't be hard to find.

Once the letters are assembled to the fender, have your shop shoot some black paint on the clips inside the fender (a rattle can will do fine), or you can do it, to keep them from rusting.
Title: Re: Laurie's 1970 Fleetwood Brougham Restoration
Post by: e.mason on December 29, 2017, 10:10:43 AM
Brochures are usually a good source for authenticity of model years.
Title: Re: Laurie's 1970 Fleetwood Brougham Restoration
Post by: signart on December 29, 2017, 10:11:38 AM
For best results, make sure you use their coil with the ignition set up.
Title: Re: Laurie's 1970 Fleetwood Brougham Restoration
Post by: TJ Hopland on December 29, 2017, 10:20:08 AM
If you do it be sure to take timing readings before you start.   Apparently the installation changes things slightly so it would be nice to know where you started in case you want to get back there.

Follow the instructions especially about the gap and power.   I have read lots of issues where people just figured the instructions were more of a suggestion. 

When the II and III came out they didn't seem as reliable as the original.  They have been out for quite a while now so I assume they got the bugs out. 

For a 70 unless you are concerned about the look you have the option of getting a factory HEI from a later model or an aftermarket unit.   HEI can sometimes have slight clearance issues with the inner AC belt and smog rail.  Aftermarket stuff is smaller diameter like the original so no clearance issues. 

Yet another option is something like a MDS6 box.  Regular price only $230 but on sale still and free shipping.
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/msd-6201/media/instructions

These can trigger off the original points so you could wire it up with connectors so you could bypass it if needed for a show or failure.   It still uses the points as the trigger but its only triggering the electronics so there is no arching which is the major wear factor with conventional points.  You also don't have to mess with the resistor in the original circuit,  just like the points the box is just looking at that wire for a signal not an actual electrical load.  The main electrical load comes direct from the battery.   These give you one heck of a hot spark, you will be reminded of that if you ever leave the key on and mess with it, they bite hard.   I have a couple of these on older motors and they really seem to help starting, idle, and 'off the line' acceleration not to mention make points much less of a hassle.
Title: Re: Laurie's 1970 Fleetwood Brougham Restoration
Post by: cadillac ken on December 29, 2017, 10:26:43 AM
Thanks guys, really appreciate it. The vokes either "1 shot" or "2 shot". 1 shots are for the cars going to the used car dealers, the paint and clear coat are combined. 2 shots are for the nicer cars, paint, then clear coat. At least that's how I understood it...?
Laurie

I'm sure your painter means Single stage paint when he says "1 shot": color and gloss all in one but as pointed out you really don't want to buff that and in the case of metallics and pearls, the they are exposed to the elements without a clear coat over top-- but fine for "quickies" as we call them. 

The "2 shot" is probably meant as the base coat (color) clear coat (top coat) systems by different manufacturers.  And generally regarded as a better quality paint system.
Title: Re: Laurie's 1970 Fleetwood Brougham Restoration
Post by: Jay Friedman on December 29, 2017, 10:45:14 AM
To 76Eldo,
 
I agree with your reasons for sticking with points and a condenser.  As you wrote, points will let you know they are ready for replacement without failing completely, in plenty of time to replace them.  Also, it's good to get into your distributor from time to time to lubricate it and check the wiring etc.

Like you I have found NOS Delco points on ebay, and recently bought for my '49 a sealed box of 10, a lifetime supply. 

As for condensers, John Washburn, who writes the Washburn's Wisdom articles in the Self Starter, wrote a while back that you can still get reliable brand new condensers from the Madison Tractor Company.  I bought one, installed it and so far it has been working well after several thousand miles, including a long road trip to the Grand National.

Title: Re: Laurie's 1970 Fleetwood Brougham Restoration
Post by: TJ Hopland on December 29, 2017, 11:56:47 AM
In the olden days condensers had a value stamped into them just like spark plugs.  There was an OE spec but just like plugs there were also charts showing if you were having issues which direction to adjust the value to 'dial it in' for the current conditions.   Condensers now seem to be a one size MAY fit all sort of thing.  You are lucky if it fits and the wire is correct and that its not bad out of the box. 

They also don't always seem to age well so NOS is still a hit or miss option.  I presume it comes down to original quality and then storage / use conditions.  At one time I knew a guy that had a tester, I think it was a Sun brand that hung on the side of the distributor machine.   I borrowed it and tested everything I had at the time which was a dozen or so between on engines and spares.   I think I had maybe 3 that tested good on that machine vs only 3 that failed using a basic ohm meter test.   Wish I had stayed in contact with the guy, maybe I would have had a chance to buy some of that stuff when he passed. 
Title: Re: Laurie's 1970 Fleetwood Brougham Restoration
Post by: Chuck Swanson on December 29, 2017, 03:14:32 PM
My cars, at least for now, are still running points and condenser.  As far as the stock/purist part of the equation, if it's a mod the fits under the distributor cap and no one sees it, it's not an issue for me. 

The Petronix has an extra wire BTW, so doesn't look stock for the purists :)  They also try to sell you an unneeded extra coil.  Been using Breakerless LE https://www.lectriclimited.com/conversions-modifications/  below in all my cars below for 10+ yrs, for all that originally had points, using stock coil.  No extra wires.  Chuck
Title: Re: Laurie's 1970 Fleetwood Brougham Restoration
Post by: John Washburn CLC 1067 on December 29, 2017, 05:21:35 PM
Folks,

As Jay so nicely said I wrote an article or two on condensers. But if you buy the ones from the tractor guys they are NEW not old stock. The old stock are always suspect.

The other issue is about value in MFD. Cadillac used the same damned condenser from 1937 up till they converted to electronic ignitions (in most cases).

The article covers a lot of issues so take a gander.

The Johnny
Title: Re: Laurie's 1970 Fleetwood Brougham Restoration
Post by: cadillacmike68 on December 29, 2017, 05:49:10 PM
Eric, that was an ad.

The brochures for 1970 did a poor job of showing the rear, especially Fleetwoods. But yes they are both usually good sources.
Title: Re: Laurie's 1970 Fleetwood Brougham Restoration
Post by: cadillacmike68 on December 29, 2017, 05:57:19 PM
Anyone stuffing this gizmo under their distributor? Any reason to/not to?
Laurie?

Yes, you want to be "authentic" and am willing to put this in the car??   :P

All kidding aside, a properly set P&C ignition will start your car in about 1/10 of a second. That's about how long it takes to start mine, unless its been sitting for several days.
Title: Re: Laurie's 1970 Fleetwood Brougham Restoration
Post by: BJM on December 29, 2017, 06:05:30 PM
Thank you for that explanation. It helps me understand the BC/CC
Title: Re: Laurie's 1970 Fleetwood Brougham Restoration
Post by: Bobby B on December 29, 2017, 06:27:24 PM


I'm sure your painter means Single stage paint when he says "1 shot": color and gloss all in one but as pointed out you really don't want to buff that and in the case of metallics and pearls, the they are exposed to the elements without a clear coat over top-- but fine for "quickies" as we call them. 

The "2 shot" is probably meant as the base coat (color) clear coat (top coat) systems by different manufacturers.  And generally regarded as a better quality paint system.

Have 2 cars that were painted in Centari over 25 years ago and still look great. Lots of variables like anything else. As we all know, the Prep is more important than the actual top coat. How about Imron Boys? You could throw a rock at it and it wouldn't chip :o.....
                                                                                                           Bobby
Title: Re: Laurie's 1970 Fleetwood Brougham Restoration
Post by: Bobby B on December 29, 2017, 06:28:57 PM
Pertonix installed '36 Pierce-Arrow, '58 Cad, 47 Cad, 15 years ago.  Cars never ran better, and continue to run beautifully.

Agreed.....
           Bobby
Title: Re: Laurie's 1970 Fleetwood Brougham Restoration
Post by: Bob Hoffmann CLC#96 on December 29, 2017, 08:45:02 PM
AHHH, The NEVER ending pertronix debate... round 8 or is it round 9 ???
Don't feed the troll{s}
Bob
Title: Re: Laurie's 1970 Fleetwood Brougham Restoration
Post by: chrisntam on December 29, 2017, 09:48:07 PM
I opted to get a replacement distributor from MTS, it electronic.  I think it's an MSD knockoff, not real sure.  Had to use a different coil, but the coil fits in the stock location.  I like the look of the red cap.  I'm not a purist, so it's not a big issue for me.  Cost for the dizzy was about $350 and about $50 for the coil IIRC (in '14).

Now when it craps out, won't have a clue as to what part failed and what to replace...
Title: Re: Laurie's 1970 Fleetwood Brougham Restoration
Post by: chrisntam on December 29, 2017, 10:00:19 PM


(https://cdn2.mecum.com/auctions/kc0311/kc0311-104860/images/kc0311-104860_3.jpg?1299881688000)

That's a nice looking rear end.
 ;)
Title: Re: Laurie's 1970 Fleetwood Brougham Restoration
Post by: Cape Cod Fleetwood on December 30, 2017, 01:42:16 AM
I have a brochure, like Mike said if the pic was 'clear' I wouldn't have asked.
I have a nice rear end too or so I've been told. 2-1 the mods send me to the wood shed for
that comment too.  >:D

Thanks guys! Laurie!
Title: Re: Laurie's 1970 Fleetwood Brougham Restoration
Post by: Cape Cod Fleetwood on December 30, 2017, 02:01:31 AM
Wow guys, thanks for all the wisdom. I have a dear friend who owns 33 old cars, all hotrods, he swears by that Petronix thing and said to look into it for The Ark. After reading all the posts and my eyes glazing over I'll stick with authentic PC.  But I loved the info. I'm about to drop over a grand at Summit tomorrow, that includes the tires, and I ordered the battery from BatteryMallCentral. The firing system is something I can actually do, used to do it myself when I was kid. All the parts will be AC Delco from Summit. They have a 'kit' now with the condensor and points together, good thing? Cap, rotor, wires, plugs all AC Delco. I'll be flushing (not back flushing, old school) out the radiator, it looks fine, but I have no mntx records on this car at all. Last owner said "well if it needed something, I did it", swell. I have a military type ' book' on my daily driver (dates/mileage/repair type/shop that did the work, etc), The Ark will have the same. When I flush it (by the book) my dad (RIP) always said to change the thermostat. Here I'm getting a Stant, he swore by them. Any reason not to use a stant? I'm changing the rad cap too, just because I can. Again I'd love to use a Stant but AC Delco so it looks more 'correct'. Is there any reason to use "Be Cool" at 3 times the price of regular green Prestone? Scott will do the oil change and tranny fluid change, just dropping the pans, new gaskets, filters, Lucas Hot Rod Oil and Dexron 6. I change out power steering fluid old school with a turkey baster and a lot of patience. Is there a better power steering fluid out there? My Acadia uses D6! Thanks for your patience with all the chick questions, much appreciated!
Laurie!
Title: Re: Laurie's 1970 Fleetwood Brougham Restoration
Post by: Cape Cod Fleetwood on December 30, 2017, 02:08:06 AM
I'm sure your painter means Single stage paint when he says "1 shot": color and gloss all in one but as pointed out you really don't want to buff that and in the case of metallics and pearls, the they are exposed to the elements without a clear coat over top-- but fine for "quickies" as we call them. 

The "2 shot" is probably meant as the base coat (color) clear coat (top coat) systems by different manufacturers.  And generally regarded as a better quality paint system.

Thanks Ken, I feel better now! Laurie!
Title: Re: Laurie's 1970 Fleetwood Brougham Restoration
Post by: Cape Cod Fleetwood on December 30, 2017, 02:10:41 AM
"Would the correct 'thingy' size be in the shop manual? Which has arrived along with the body manual and sales brochure."

No, but it might be in the Fisher Body Manual --- at least what it looks like.  When you get the letters determine the size of the stud and look through that Restoration Specialties catalog I linked you to earlier.  Or, take it to the body shop that will be doing your work and ask them what clip they would use to retain the letters.  There are a zillion clips (plus or minus a few hundred) out there of all types and sizes, a good clip for yours shouldn't be hard to find.

Once the letters are assembled to the fender, have your shop shoot some black paint on the clips inside the fender (a rattle can will do fine), or you can do it, to keep them from rusting.

Got the body Fisher manual! Great advice on the spray can, I can do that, thank you! Laurie!
Title: Re: Laurie's 1970 Fleetwood Brougham Restoration
Post by: Cape Cod Fleetwood on December 30, 2017, 02:21:43 AM
BIG COIN to do it the 'right way', I get that. I also understand this is not a Concours level restoration, I just want the roof to look less crappy. They're on eBay, what do you folks think of this?
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1965-1970-Cadillac-Fleetwood-Vinyl-Top-4-Door-Sedan-Full-Top/371670316228?hash=item568946f4c4:g:lrkAAOxye3BRyCE4 (https://www.ebay.com/itm/1965-1970-Cadillac-Fleetwood-Vinyl-Top-4-Door-Sedan-Full-Top/371670316228?hash=item568946f4c4:g:lrkAAOxye3BRyCE4) Which finish would be more correct, the Elk or the Levant?

Did I mention the car is in 4 shows this year and I haven't picked a voke yet to do the body work and paint? One closer to me reached out today, one of their alumni 'made a call', whatever.

*May 20, 2018 at Larz Anderson Auto Museum "Cadillac Day"
*June 17, 2018 at Greater Hyannis Chamber of Commerce Father's Day Car Show
*July 19, 2018 at Bass Pro Shops, Gillette Stadium
*Heritage Museums & Gardens, date TBA (fall) Sandwich, MA

2019
*March - World of Wheels at the Seaport World Trade Center, Boston, MA

I work better under pressure, comes from years of being shot at in the military, LOL!
Laurie!
Title: Re: Laurie's 1970 Fleetwood Brougham Restoration
Post by: chrisntam on December 30, 2017, 04:08:09 AM
Be sure you use coolant for the old cars.  Not sure what the difference is.  '95 & prior?
Title: Re: Laurie's 1970 Fleetwood Brougham Restoration
Post by: James Landi on December 30, 2017, 06:57:35 AM
The challenge is simple, what is the condition of the metal roof under the vinyl.  Often happens that vinyl topped cars have serious rust issues, hidden by the top.   We've replaced ours-- "done it ourselves" with an 83 Eldorado, that fortunately had a fiberglass "second roof" fitted over the metal, structural roof.  When we pulled off the vinyl/fiberglass top, we found several rust holes --  all this is to say that you may find additional challenges if and when you remove the vinyl.   Happy day,   James
Title: Re: Laurie's 1970 Fleetwood Brougham Restoration
Post by: 35-709 on December 30, 2017, 08:41:21 AM
"They have a 'kit' now with the condensor and points together, good thing?"

NOT a good thing.  Some here have found these Delco (Chinese?) combination points and condenser items to be bad out of the box --- including me, on two separate occasions.  I will not/would not use them, period.

Another good reason, for me, to go electronic. 

Here is another option worthy of consideration ---
https://www.ebay.com/itm/CADILLAC-472-500-PRO-SERIES-Small-Cap-Black-HEI-Distributor-Coil-Spark-Plug-Wire/191789428878?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649

This is an HEI unit but smaller than the GM HEI since they keep the coil separate (included in the kit).  Same size as your stock unit which eliminates the belt clearance problems on your year engine that occur when a GM HEI is added.
Title: Re: Laurie's 1970 Fleetwood Brougham Restoration
Post by: WTL on December 30, 2017, 08:50:24 AM
I did mine myself with the opgi roof, pretty sure it's tuxedo. 

2 problems in addition to some rust  - the opgi seemed to have a bit too much material, I ended up cutting it and tucking it a little, not perfect...and unless your channel trim pieces are perfectly straight, it might cause you to pull your hair out reinstalling those. 

Title: Re: Laurie's 1970 Fleetwood Brougham Restoration
Post by: TJ Hopland on December 30, 2017, 08:51:32 AM
The correct thermostat for the 472-500-425-368 looks and is pretty typical for American engines except for it has and extra flange disc sort of thing at the bottom.    A Chev one will fit and sort of work but without that flange the bypass passage never gets blocked so you never get full coolant circulation through the radiator.   Lots of cheap crap out there.  I bought my last one from MTS.   I don't have a part number handy but have been told if you are in a rural area there is a John Deere one that is stocked by most dealers. 

The all in one things I think were called uni something.    I think the advantage was just ease of install.   Disadvantage especially these days is its all one assembly so if say the condenser goes bad you have to replace it all.   Standard Ignition brand Blue Streak line is the only brand that has not let me down yet for points.   All the other brands are not what they used to be.  Old stock is great for points but not so much for condensers.

A tool I use all the time for things like PS, rear ends, when you overfill an AT or just about anything.
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/aia-2000/overview/

For tiny volumes of fluid and 100's of other around the car projects
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/anm-cp7835

Medium volume sucking with an air compressor
https://www.harborfreight.com/brake-fluid-bleeder-92924.html


 
Title: Re: Laurie's 1970 Fleetwood Brougham Restoration
Post by: Barry M Wheeler #2189 on December 30, 2017, 09:20:49 AM
Laurie, I keep reading your posts. You are unique in that you are moving so fast. Many of us have to plot over years as to how we're going to budget the costs for this and that relative to our cars. You seem to spend your evenings on line looking for stuff for your car and then telling us about what you've done lately.

Keep it up lady, we're on your side. BW
Title: Re: Laurie's 1970 Fleetwood Brougham Restoration
Post by: 35-709 on December 30, 2017, 09:26:07 AM
ROTFLMAO   >:D
Title: Re: Laurie's 1970 Fleetwood Brougham Restoration
Post by: cadillacmike68 on December 30, 2017, 09:45:22 AM
That's a nice looking rear end.
 ;)

We won't send you to the wood shed, but you'll have to prove it!  :)

1968s look better, especially with a bronze star and airborne wings.  :P
Title: Re: Laurie's 1970 Fleetwood Brougham Restoration
Post by: cadillacmike68 on December 30, 2017, 10:03:15 AM
AC RC-27 radiator caps are readily available and look better. As for the thermostat itself, and good quality stat 180 deg for the Cadillac 472/500 will be fine.
Title: Re: Laurie's 1970 Fleetwood Brougham Restoration
Post by: cadillacmike68 on December 30, 2017, 10:21:27 AM
But her car body is a Fleetwood. Mine is in my car, but I remember that the spring clips used were one per letter with two holes to grab the pins. And a real PITA to get off.
Title: Re: Laurie's 1970 Fleetwood Brougham Restoration
Post by: 35-709 on December 30, 2017, 12:49:11 PM
As mentioned before there are only 2 correct thermostats for the 472/500/425, 185 and a 195.  A lesser GM car "stat" might work but it will not work as the Cadillac engineers intended.  If one wants the cooling system to be correct and predictable, the style thermostat pictured below in #1 should be the only one used.  NAPA, Carquest, etc., will have, or can quickly get, the proper stat for the Cadillac.

Pic. #1  Cadillac 472/500 style thermostat.

Pic. #2  Incorrect thermostat that will fit.

 
Title: Re: Laurie's 1970 Fleetwood Brougham Restoration
Post by: TC on December 30, 2017, 12:56:18 PM
One more point to add:

Besides the single stage and two stage paint processes already discussed there is another practice used by the quickie production paint shops. This is still a single stage paint paint and process but the last coat has clearcoat mixed with the color. This is called an integrated clearcoat. It gives the paint a bit more gloss and depth. Even with metallics, after painting, I have heard of VERY LIGHT wet sanding possible with like #3000 grit and a polish. Never tried it though.   
Title: Re: Laurie's 1970 Fleetwood Brougham Restoration
Post by: Cape Cod Fleetwood on December 30, 2017, 01:03:53 PM
Thanks guys. OK, no 'kit' and I'll look for the proper therm and cap, thanks!
Title: Re: Laurie's 1970 Fleetwood Brougham Restoration
Post by: Cape Cod Fleetwood on December 30, 2017, 01:08:37 PM
We won't send you to the wood shed, but you'll have to prove it!  :)

LOL! Well any pic posted here has to be a caddy/have a caddy in it so you'll have to wait until the temp goes up 70 degrees for that one!  :P
Title: Re: Laurie's 1970 Fleetwood Brougham Restoration
Post by: TC on December 30, 2017, 01:13:31 PM
Seems like with Pertronix you get either a good one or bad one.

I have one that came with one of the cars I own. So far OK.

The HEIs, have either an optical or magnetic trigger. Pertronix is magnetic. A very good aftermarket HEI is the Crane Fireball. It has an optical trigger which is more accurate for spark control and they are reliable. But you have to find a place to hide the small control box for an original look.

I still have points and condensor for all my other cars. If they fail, a spare set,  screwdriver and a matchbook is all I need to get going again  :)
Title: Re: Laurie's 1970 Fleetwood Brougham Restoration
Post by: Cape Cod Fleetwood on December 30, 2017, 01:14:34 PM
Laurie, I keep reading your posts. You are unique in that you are moving so fast. Many of us have to plot over years as to how we're going to budget the costs for this and that relative to our cars. You seem to spend your evenings on line looking for stuff for your car and then telling us about what you've done lately.

Keep it up lady, we're on your side. BW

Barry I'm a petulant, impatient, red headed Capricorn only child who owns her own business and is on vacay until 8Jan when all hell breaks loose with business again. Its crucial that my "i"s are dotted and "t"s are crossed before then. I physically won't have the time after the 8th to devote to the car. All parts/logistics/flight plans have to be filed before then. Did I mention the first car show is in May? yikes...
Title: Re: Laurie's 1970 Fleetwood Brougham Restoration
Post by: chrisntam on December 30, 2017, 01:15:29 PM
The P & C together were called a "uniset".

Delco D1007 IIRC.
Title: Re: Laurie's 1970 Fleetwood Brougham Restoration
Post by: Cape Cod Fleetwood on December 30, 2017, 01:30:37 PM
It was chilly, but we got it! I understand the paint and interior codes, the rest???
And I think I'm replacing the battery cables too. Reproduction or....? There's supposed to be a bar that goes over the battery, didn't see anything around the battery to suggest that could/should be there.
?
Laurie?
Title: Re: Laurie's 1970 Fleetwood Brougham Restoration
Post by: Cape Cod Fleetwood on December 30, 2017, 01:59:45 PM
OK, I need guidance here.. went to the AC Delco sight and got options on the condensor and points, please tell me which ones I should order?

Condensor - AC Delco# D204 "HD condensor, 68-74"
                    AC Delco# U208 "all, 65-72"


Points -        AC Delco# D106P "all, 68-73"
                    AC Delco# D116 "all, stock perf version, 65-74"
                    AC Delco# D582A "all, high performance version, 65-74"

I don't have a clue what I'm doing here guys, very appreciative of any and all guidance, thanks!
Laurie!
Title: Re: Laurie's 1970 Fleetwood Brougham Restoration
Post by: cadillacmike68 on December 30, 2017, 03:01:50 PM
"They have a 'kit' now with the condensor and points together, good thing?"

NOT a good thing.  Some here have found these Delco (Chinese?) combination points and condenser items to be bad out of the box --- including me, on two separate occasions.  I will not/would not use them, period.

Another good reason, for me, to go electronic. 

Here is another option worthy of consideration ---
https://www.ebay.com/itm/CADILLAC-472-500-PRO-SERIES-Small-Cap-Black-HEI-Distributor-Coil-Spark-Plug-Wire/191789428878?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649

This is an HEI unit but smaller than the GM HEI since they keep the coil separate (included in the kit).  Same size as your stock unit which eliminates the belt clearance problems on your year engine that occur when a GM HEI is added.


I've not had a problem with Uniset points & condenser in the past, but others have. They are easier to put in, and easier to get close to correct when first installing, just match the length of the adjustment screw to the old one and the car will start. Then you can adjust by feel or with a dwell meter. These GM allow you to adjust while the car is running with a 1/8 allen wrench via the slotted door in the cap. The key is to get  points with the hole in the center of one of the contacts. Those are the better made points. Unfortunately ACDelco sells both types. On Rockauto.com, the more expensive one is one I'm referring to. Whatever that part # is, you can look it up on amazon or elsewhere or your local shop.

I'll use either, I have both in my spares boxes, but will prefer the Uniset .
Title: Re: Laurie's 1970 Fleetwood Brougham Restoration
Post by: cadillacmike68 on December 30, 2017, 03:05:47 PM
Laurie,

I think there was a hold-down that used a lever, but I can't remember. That bar in the front is to keep it from falling out.

Black cables for both sides, the thickest you can get, like 2 gauge.

Someone who know more will tell you the paint, top and color codes and the options. The options list is not All the options on the car, just the major ones.
Title: Re: Laurie's 1970 Fleetwood Brougham Restoration
Post by: cadillacmike68 on December 30, 2017, 03:08:34 PM
I thought we were talking about your Fleetwood...   :-X
Title: Re: Laurie's 1970 Fleetwood Brougham Restoration
Post by: Bobby B on December 30, 2017, 03:15:12 PM
Laurie,
 Hi. Knock yourself out.....
                                Bobby

Compliments of Ralph Messina:

http://www.rrrclc.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/CLC-Color-Database-2017-03-20.pdf

                                                   
Title: Re: Laurie's 1970 Fleetwood Brougham Restoration
Post by: Cape Cod Fleetwood on December 30, 2017, 03:32:03 PM
OK, I need guidance here.. went to the AC Delco sight and got options on the condensor and points, please tell me which ones I should order?

Condensor - AC Delco# D204 "HD condensor, 68-74"
                    AC Delco# U208 "all, 65-72"


Points -        AC Delco# D106P "all, 68-73"
                    AC Delco# D116 "all, stock perf version, 65-74"
                    AC Delco# D582A "all, high performance version, 65-74"

I don't have a clue what I'm doing here guys, very appreciative of any and all guidance, thanks!
Laurie!
Title: Re: Laurie's 1970 Fleetwood Brougham Restoration
Post by: Cape Cod Fleetwood on December 30, 2017, 03:33:24 PM
Thanks guys!  :-*
Title: Re: Laurie's 1970 Fleetwood Brougham Restoration
Post by: Cape Cod Fleetwood on December 30, 2017, 03:35:11 PM
I thought we were talking about your Fleetwood...   :-X

Well that's easy...
Title: Re: Laurie's 1970 Fleetwood Brougham Restoration
Post by: TJ Hopland on December 30, 2017, 04:17:44 PM
I would go for the D528A.  It looks like its all copper or at least all copper plated plus its got the lubrication wick.

Condenser I don't see the U208 but the D204 looks alright.
Title: Re: Laurie's 1970 Fleetwood Brougham Restoration
Post by: Jeff Rose CLC #28373 on December 30, 2017, 04:30:38 PM
I am not sure where you are, but you may want to keep the cold in mind. I would check to be sure you can/should do it in the cold with a cold metal roof.
Jeff
Title: Re: Laurie's 1970 Fleetwood Brougham Restoration
Post by: Cape Cod Fleetwood on December 30, 2017, 04:34:59 PM
I am not sure where you are, but you may want to keep the cold in mind. I would check to be sure you can/should do it in the cold with a cold metal roof.
Jeff

Agree completely Jeff. Hoping to start the body/roof in late March, the temps should be better then.
Title: Re: Laurie's 1970 Fleetwood Brougham Restoration
Post by: Cape Cod Fleetwood on December 30, 2017, 10:36:00 PM
I can make this easier.. the U208 is no longer being made.
Title: Re: Laurie's 1970 Fleetwood Brougham Restoration
Post by: Cape Cod Fleetwood on December 30, 2017, 11:04:05 PM
Guys the Ark needs a condensor, note how its missing. Cheapest place to get one? Used is OK, all info greatly appreciated.
Title: Re: Laurie's 1970 Fleetwood Brougham Restoration
Post by: Bobby B on December 30, 2017, 11:07:19 PM
Three on eBay right now.....
                            Bobby
Title: Re: Laurie's 1970 Fleetwood Brougham Restoration
Post by: "Cadillac Kid" Greg Surfas 15364 on December 30, 2017, 11:18:09 PM
Laurie,
You certainly did not ask, but that radiator is going to give you grief at anything above 80 degrees outside, and especially when you have the AC functional. These motors need every "ounce" of radiator they were born with.
Greg Surfas
Title: Re: Laurie's 1970 Fleetwood Brougham Restoration
Post by: Cape Cod Fleetwood on December 31, 2017, 12:02:16 AM
Laurie,
You certainly did not ask, but that radiator is going to give you grief at anything above 80 degrees outside, and especially when you have the AC functional. These motors need every "ounce" of radiator they were born with.
Greg Surfas

Its been 'working' fine... but what do you suggest? Laurie?
Title: Re: Laurie's 1970 Fleetwood Brougham Restoration
Post by: cadillacmike68 on December 31, 2017, 12:07:49 AM
I would also go with the D582A points as well. The D116 and D118 uni-set should be OK too, but the D582A and D204 look like the best heavy duty combo.

In general the parts with a D are better than the ones with a C in the front.

I might need to take that back. The C349 cap is better than the D308R cap. Not sure on the two rotors.
Title: Re: Laurie's 1970 Fleetwood Brougham Restoration
Post by: V63 on December 31, 2017, 01:24:24 AM
I would retrofit a Ďmoderní cross flow condenser to it. They are much more efficient...especially with available modern refrigerant.  Cost would be around $110 for a brand new one.

I had a bunch of OEM ones, left over from conversions above. I scrapped them figuring no demand.
Title: Re: Laurie's 1970 Fleetwood Brougham Restoration
Post by: Cape Cod Fleetwood on December 31, 2017, 01:36:29 AM
I had a bunch of OEM ones, left over from conversions above. I scrapped them figuring no demand.

 :'( :'( :'(
Title: Re: Laurie's 1970 Fleetwood Brougham Restoration
Post by: Cape Cod Fleetwood on December 31, 2017, 01:38:03 AM
I would retrofit a Ďmoderní cross flow condenser to it. They are much more efficient...especially with available modern refrigerant.  Cost would be around $110 for a brand new one.

Honey if you can link me to a $100 condenser for a 1970 fleetwood I'm your buddy..
Laurie
Title: Re: Laurie's 1970 Fleetwood Brougham Restoration
Post by: Cape Cod Fleetwood on December 31, 2017, 01:51:21 AM
Thanks guys, AGAIN!
D204, D582A and C349 on the purchase list.

Bought the CORRECT therm (12T18E), gasket (12610), radiator cap (12R7S) and rotor (C435) on
Amazon.Smile tonight, $2.48 with my AmEx points. Summit didn't carry them.

2 more questions to complete the list that pay's Summits' bills for the month:

1) power steering fluid... yes I searched here, checked the owners manual and shop manual. "special service oil from warehouse" means what exactly?  Tranny fluid? Hey my 08 Acadia runs on D6 for the steering.

2) rear end fluid (the car, not me). Shop manual mentions 90w, will the standard GM grape juice work? Assuming there's no magnet in that or the tranny pan?

Laurie (going to bed before 0400 and I really mean it this time)
Title: Re: Laurie's 1970 Fleetwood Brougham Restoration
Post by: V63 on December 31, 2017, 02:01:29 AM
What you do is get the core measurement L X W.

The aftermarket cross flow replacements are sold by dimension. Best maybe Find a local supplier that can help. They are abundant on line of coarse.

Original Lines will need adaptation but your lines may missing too?


Title: Re: Laurie's 1970 Fleetwood Brougham Restoration
Post by: The Tassie Devil(le) on December 31, 2017, 02:52:15 AM
Laurie,
You certainly did not ask, but that radiator is going to give you grief at anything above 80 degrees outside, and especially when you have the AC functional. These motors need every "ounce" of radiator they were born with.   Greg Surfas 
I am in agreeance with the fact regarding the Aluminium Radiator.

I had one fail in a '71 Eldorado, and purchased a replacement Copper/Brass one from Rock Auto, and worked a treat.   Probably made in China, but so far, no problems, and the owner drives his car virtually every day, no matter the weather.

I purchased a heavy duty one, but it didn't fit, as it was too thick, and now I have it to eventually fit into my '72, after modifying the mounting crossmember.

Bruce. >:D
Title: Re: Laurie's 1970 Fleetwood Brougham Restoration
Post by: The Tassie Devil(le) on December 31, 2017, 02:56:39 AM
......1) power steering fluid... yes I searched here, checked the owners manual and shop manual. "special service oil from warehouse" means what exactly?  Tranny fluid? Hey my 08 Acadia runs on D6 for the steering.
Basic Dexron III or IV.   Same as what is in your Transmission.

Quote
2) rear end fluid (the car, not me). Shop manual mentions 90w, will the standard GM grape juice work? Assuming there's no magnet in that or the tranny pan?
I use 80W-90 in all my diffs, except if the Diff centre is LSD.   Then I use Valvoline, Castrop or Pennzoil LSD oil.

Bruce. >:D
Title: Re: Laurie's 1970 Fleetwood Brougham Restoration
Post by: chrisntam on December 31, 2017, 09:12:28 AM
Here's a link to an eBay search I did.

https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_odkw=1970+cadillac+condenser&_sc=1&_flso=0&_sop=10&_fpos=75002&_sticky=1&_pcats=6001%2C6000&_osacat=6000&_stpos=75002&_qfkw=1&_from=R40&_trksid=p2045573.m570.l1313.TR0.TRC0.H0.X1970+cadillac+condenser+-radiator.TRS1&_nkw=1970+cadillac+condenser+-radiator&_sacat=6000

Once purchased, I believe a radiator shop can leak test it.  Hopefully the seller will guarantee that it is leak free...

Be sure to flush the ess out of it prior to installation.  And you'll need a can of black paint.

Be sure you look at Rock Auto, they have most of what you need (expansion valve, drier, etc.).  I had to get my POA valve rebuilt, can't recall at the moment who did it, though it was a place in Florida...  Cost was about $200.
Title: Re: Laurie's 1970 Fleetwood Brougham Restoration
Post by: cadillacmike68 on December 31, 2017, 11:40:16 AM
LSD - Limited Slip Differential - not tim leary's acid trip.   :P You may or may not have it, because they were available back then. You'd have to take off the rear cover.  Hey, at least your rear has a cover because mine doesn't.

You can buy "regular", as in not honda or some other specific PS fluid, or just use the Dexron III. IV isn't being sold anymore and VI is stated by GM to be backwards compatible to All prior Dexron applications, including the ancient Auto Trans Fluid A which preceded Dexron in the mid 60s.
Title: Re: Laurie's 1970 Fleetwood Brougham Restoration
Post by: cadillacmike68 on December 31, 2017, 11:45:49 AM
I have my original condenser that has no leaks. for one benjie plus shipping if you can't find another.

You can get a proper 3 or 4 core copper tube brass tanks rad for these cars. A 4 core might not give you enough fan clearance though.
Title: Re: Laurie's 1970 Fleetwood Brougham Restoration
Post by: cadillacmike68 on December 31, 2017, 11:51:52 AM
I didn't notice that that was a top view of the battery. If I remember correctly there was a lever operated hold-down for the battery, not a bar across the top.
Title: Re: Laurie's 1970 Fleetwood Brougham Restoration
Post by: Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621 on December 31, 2017, 12:15:57 PM
Eric, that was an ad.

The picture I posted was not an ad.
Title: Re: Laurie's 1970 Fleetwood Brougham Restoration
Post by: chrisntam on December 31, 2017, 12:51:08 PM
Lysergic acid diethylamide (LSD), also known as acid, is a psychedelic drug known for its psychological effects, which may include altered awareness of one's surroundings, perceptions, and feelings as well as sensations and images that seem real though they are not.

Kinda like the guy selling the '53 Eldo or the guy selling the '59 Series 62....both tremendously rusty.

 ::)
Title: Re: Laurie's 1970 Fleetwood Brougham Restoration
Post by: cadillacmike68 on December 31, 2017, 04:58:41 PM
Well, where did it come from?

It's not in any of the 1970 brochures that i have or any non-advertisement materials that I have. I don't have everything, but I do have to popular brochures, etc from back then.
Title: Re: Laurie's 1970 Fleetwood Brougham Restoration
Post by: 59-in-pieces on December 31, 2017, 05:59:48 PM
Chrisntam,
To quote FROZEN - "LET IT GO", LET IT GO..."
Have fun,
Steve B.
Title: Re: Laurie's 1970 Fleetwood Brougham Restoration
Post by: 35-709 on December 31, 2017, 06:54:59 PM
"You may or may not have it, because they were available back then. You'd have to take off the rear cover."

No need to take off the cover, with both rear wheels off the ground - transmission in any gear but Park - turn one rear wheel by hand (emergency brake off  :)), if the other wheel turns in the same direction you have the limited slip.  If the other wheel turns in the opposite direction, you do not have the optional limited slip differential.  Cadillac calls it simply a Controlled Differential.  If you still have the ID tag on your differential, the ratio ID code number will be preceded by a "G", if you have the Controlled Differential.  The tag was attached to the forward side of the diff. under one of the pinion retainer bolts --- bet it is still there. 

FYI, the ratio code number will be 3 for a 2.93-1 ratio or a 5 for a 3.15-1 ratio --- in 1973 --- assume yours are the same.
Title: Re: Laurie's 1970 Fleetwood Brougham Restoration
Post by: chrisntam on December 31, 2017, 06:59:05 PM
Looks like a regular ol' photo to me...
Title: Re: Laurie's 1970 Fleetwood Brougham Restoration
Post by: Cape Cod Fleetwood on December 31, 2017, 07:30:13 PM
Quote from: cadillacmike68 link=topic=147982.msg380746#msg380746 date=1514648722
1968s look better, especially with a bronze star and airborne wings.  :P
[/quote

Well the mods will nuke this reply but its all I've got. My shadow box and my daily driver.
Laurie! (a/k/a PO Laurie/ABH2/NAC/AW)
Title: Re: Laurie's 1970 Fleetwood Brougham Restoration
Post by: Cape Cod Fleetwood on December 31, 2017, 08:27:28 PM
I have my original condenser that has no leaks. for one benjie plus shipping if you can't find another.

You can get a proper 3 or 4 core copper tube brass tanks rad for these cars. A 4 core might not give you enough fan clearance though.

Mike if that condenser fits my car I'll take it, graci.
As far as the radiator, its working. If there's an issue with it going forward I'll act on it then.
And I really appreciate all the info!
Laurie!
Title: Re: Laurie's 1970 Fleetwood Brougham Restoration
Post by: Cape Cod Fleetwood on December 31, 2017, 08:36:17 PM
"You may or may not have it, because they were available back then. You'd have to take off the rear cover."

No need to take off the cover, with both rear wheels off the ground - transmission in any gear but Park - turn one rear wheel by hand (emergency brake off  :)), if the other wheel turns in the same direction you have the limited slip.  If the other wheel turns in the opposite direction, you do not have the optional limited slip differential.  Cadillac calls it simply a Controlled Differential.  If you still have the ID tag on your differential, the ratio ID code number will be preceded by a "G", if you have the Controlled Differential.  The tag was attached to the forward side of the diff. under one of the pinion retainer bolts --- bet it is still there. 

FYI, the ratio code number will be 3 for a 2.93-1 ratio or a 5 for a 3.15-1 ratio --- in 1973 --- assume yours are the same.

I really hope I remember this post when The Ark is on the lift again....
And Dexron 6 for power steering fluid, one less thing I have to buy!
Thanks Guys!
Laurie!
Title: Re: Laurie's 1970 Fleetwood Brougham Restoration
Post by: 49er on January 01, 2018, 11:39:01 AM
I was wondering, shouldnt all this dialogue be in the restoration and even the technical threads? If not, why not.
Title: Re: Laurie's 1970 Fleetwood Brougham Restoration
Post by: chrisntam on January 01, 2018, 05:53:01 PM
I was wondering, shouldn't all this dialogue be in the restoration and even the technical threads? If not, why not.

It could also go in the "Parts Wanted" area.

 ;)
Title: Re: Laurie's 1970 Fleetwood Brougham Restoration
Post by: Cape Cod Fleetwood on January 01, 2018, 11:57:54 PM
I've owned my pride and joy for 17 days, I have 14 receipts - as of today - with more to come.
Is this how it works from now on? LOL!
Happy New Year!
Laurie!
Title: Re: Laurie's 1970 Fleetwood Brougham Restoration
Post by: Carl Fielding on January 02, 2018, 01:05:15 AM
Yes'm. Save those nickels and save those dimes. Welcome back to Cadillac , 'Fleetwood !  - CC , 1/1/'18
Title: Re: Laurie's 1970 Fleetwood Brougham Restoration
Post by: Caddyholic on January 02, 2018, 05:54:23 AM
It's a life altering disease. Caddyholisum. The symptoms are. You will find your self on this site more than any other ( checking it a minimum on 20 times a day) You will also find yourself on eBay, Craigslist and rock auto In a constant unrelenting search for parts (needed or not) or your next caddy fix (everybody knows you can't own just 1) then you get to the storage problem for the multiple car's you have and all the part's you don't need ( but have to have) it goes on and on.

Am I right y'all

Anything I missed?
 
Title: Re: Laurie's 1970 Fleetwood Brougham Restoration
Post by: 49er on January 02, 2018, 05:55:47 AM
Its no longer, general, inquiries.  The car has been found , decided upon and a full blown restoration is underway. I mean ten or 11 Separate  threads are now evident. In the quest to restore any beloved car as its evident this is , one could see 25, 30 or much more threads started a s you continue to look for untold number of parts or information. Is not that what a Separate  area  " Restoration " is for. If you have a car " for sale" do not we have a Separate  are for that. When does the quest for information become not general, but specific, for one model year or the other. I can see logging in to refresh a memory from a post 2 weeks ago and have to wade through 25 different threads from original poster about a 70 flt. We have areas specifically for such projects. It should be utilized. Otherwise your going to have " General Discussion" a blow by blow of endless discussion of a hunting party for one specific animal which a large number of folks may have no interest In having to wade through over and over.
Title: Re: Laurie's 1970 Fleetwood Brougham Restoration
Post by: 49er on January 02, 2018, 06:35:08 AM
Jim, I agree with everything you said, except one. Isnt that, "checking a minimum " number of times a little low?????
Title: Re: Laurie's 1970 Fleetwood Brougham Restoration
Post by: Dan LeBlanc on January 02, 2018, 07:15:39 AM
I think Art has some very helpful advice here.

Laurie, as the number of topics you start grows, it will be hard to track what replies you have to what as things move down on the list.  As time goes by and you're 10 topics ahead, finding an answer you need on a past topic may get lost in the weeds, so to speak.  I think your path ahead is an ideal candidate for starting a blog in the restoration blog.

Starting one post, in the restoration blog, will allow us as forum members one place to go to see your progress and offer the best advice we can.  I know as someone who tries to offer advice where I can, I sometimes get lost trying to find a post I know I want to comment on but don't have the time right then and there to do so, and trying to find it later.

One restoration blog thread will help you keep organized.

If you want to start a blog, I'd be more than happy to merge all your threads into the one thread in the restoration blog to help you stay organized.

I think it would be an interesting thread.
Title: Re: Laurie's 1970 Fleetwood Brougham Restoration
Post by: jaxops on January 02, 2018, 10:18:32 AM
Brace yourself.  These cars "grow" problems over the Winter.  Obviously they don't like to sit so suddenly your garage floor has oil or hydraulic fluid pooled under the car or a hard start, or a gas leak....... The hits just keep coming sometimes!  Enjoy the serenity when you're not paging through the InterNet looking for parts and the car isn't leaking anything!  Hallelujah!
Title: Re: Laurie's 1970 Fleetwood Brougham Restoration
Post by: e.mason on January 02, 2018, 11:31:44 AM
In the words of the immortal Victor Laszlo.

Title: Re: Laurie's 1970 Fleetwood Brougham Restoration
Post by: "Cadillac Kid" Greg Surfas 15364 on January 02, 2018, 12:25:23 PM
Laurie,
You are lucky in that for most of your car's "hard parts" such as motor, brakes, suspension, transmission, etc. the parts are still readily available. The issue many of CLC members face is the in ability to find a mechanic who will both work on these cars and is trustworthy.  One of the things that help minimize costs is having some knowledge about the workings of our cars and the ability to do a preliminary diagnosis when things are amiss.  The factory service manual and the Fischer body manual are musts to have and understand.  The forum is also help in understanding issues since most of us HAVE ISSUES of our own,
Welcome to the club.
Greg Surfas
Title: Re: Laurie's 1970 Fleetwood Brougham Restoration
Post by: Barry M Wheeler #2189 on January 02, 2018, 03:31:30 PM
I have endured some thirty hours without the Internet... We have had (for even Indiana) a couple of very, very, VERY cold nights. We also did without a land line and TV. Finally figured out about nine PM last night that our recorded movies would still play. SLEEPY HOLLOW is scary, even with "Wednesday" as a blonde.

The ATS would not start again, even though I waited until the temp was well above zero. I didn't want to wait on OnStar all day so I called my local shop for $15.

Keep telling yourselves "Yes, we're having fun," and all will be well.
Title: Re: Laurie's 1970 Fleetwood Brougham Restoration
Post by: Scot Minesinger on January 02, 2018, 04:32:51 PM
Hi Laurie,

Go back to Greg's advise.  You need the Caddillac factory Shop manual, easiest place to buy them is e-bay.

Most all rubber parts need to be replaced.  Further, the steel fuel and brake lines should probably be replaced too.  If you have a timing chain with a nylon sprocket (1963-1979 for sure) than that should be replaced too.  Then with all of these things done, your car starts out more as new and you should not need frequent repairs.  I did this for my 1970 SDV and have it enjoyed it for five years now with no issues. 

Sounds simple, but rubber parts on your car are at a minimum; door seals, trunk seal, door stops, hood/fender stops, shocks, upper and lower control arm bushings, tires, brake pistons and calipers, transmission seals, rear control arm bushings, brake lines, fuel lines, numerous gaskets, vacuum hoses, coolant/heater hoses, carburetor gaskets, and etc.  On my 1970 Cadillac it was over 4.5k in parts plus install labor.

If you drive a 40 year old plus car and repair things as they fail, for me it would be not fun.  Hope that this helps,

Scot
Title: Re: Laurie's 1970 Fleetwood Brougham Restoration
Post by: David King (kz78hy) on January 02, 2018, 04:50:35 PM
After a while you might find that keeping all receipts is not that great of a idea.  Close approximations in money spent, mentally recorded seems to work well.  Throw them in a folder and if you really need to find one you can, but never, under any circumstance, ever, and I repeat ever, total the number...

David
Title: Re: Laurie's 1970 Fleetwood Brougham Restoration
Post by: 76eldo on January 02, 2018, 05:57:26 PM
Laurie,

Scott M is a great resource for you.
He's an ace mechanic and knows the 70 inside and out.
A shop manual is a must. If you are going to try doing some of the work on the car it's important to read up on it first.  If getting something done by a mechanic bring the manual along. I find that the service procedures are pretty well spelled out.

I enjoy collecting the literature that goes along with the cars. I have showroom data books and sales lit and accessory guides for the cars in addition to the owners manuals. Interesting reading especially during the winter when the car activities are curtailed by below freezing temps.

I don't know if you would be interested but I have some really mint chrome for the front of your car and the front and side parking and turnsignal bezels and lenses. Hard to find stuff with no pitting.

As far as racking up bills, you can go at it at your own pace and I'd recommend going over mechanical and safety items first. Especially the brake system including all metal lines and rubber hoses. At least a good visual inspection.

Enjoy!

Brian
Title: Re: Laurie's 1970 Fleetwood Brougham Restoration
Post by: 59-in-pieces on January 02, 2018, 06:04:45 PM
One of the hardest lessons I had to learn, low those 100 years ago when i started this Cadillac hobby was that no matter what it was, it was going to cost $250 to $300 a pop.
I do feel that saving your receipts is a good habit to get into.

And, without being sexist - God forbid these days - once you have finished the work, it's like giving birth - painful, but looking down at or driving YOUR Cadillac - you forget the pains and enjoy what you have created - often times with your own hands

I'll probably get nasty grams on this, I guess.
Enjoy the journey, because the destination is well worth it.

Have fun,
Steve B.
Title: Re: Laurie's 1970 Fleetwood Brougham Restoration
Post by: 35-709 on January 02, 2018, 06:16:53 PM
On other threads you will read that Laurie has already ordered and received the Fisher Body Manual and the Cadillac Shop Manual.
Title: Re: Laurie's 1970 Fleetwood Brougham Restoration
Post by: Cape Cod Fleetwood on January 03, 2018, 01:13:58 AM
LOL! Thanks guys!

I have another 'hobby' that was my 'job' for years, also involves excruciating attention to detail and mntx otherwise somebody (me) gets hurt. On top of that add my military aviation background. I'm expecting the unexpected regardless of how hard I try to stay on top of things... they're machines after all, and elderly machines at that.

The guy I bought the car from, the one who said when questioned for mntx/repairs/receipts replied "I don't know, if something broke I fixed it".. great, bought it from another guy who was trying to restore it and either ran out of money or lost his heart. One of the first things we noticed when it was up on the lift were 'new' brake and fuel lines, parts, etc. I need to 'trust' the car, to take it for a long ride to a cruise or show. That's why Summit Racing just sent me an email stating 7 (seven) boxes were in transit, and another 3 from Amazon. I want the firing system replaced, the car starts right up and runs smooth and quiet, I want it all new. Plugs, wires, condensor, cap, rotor, points. Oil (its fine) change and filter, drop the pan. Tranny (its new) fluid and filter, drop the pan. Flush the radiator (Prestone looks new), new therm and cap. New battery (period correct of course), new tires (period correct of course). Change the power steering fluid (its fine), change the brake fluid (its fine), check the rear end fluid. A lot of this I can do. Seriously! But "I" need to know all this stuff is 'new', fresh. And my mntx records on the car have a place to start. Remember when I said the car was loud and the seller said they didn't put a resonator on it? I saw a resonator during my crawl under it, figured it was the muffler or something at the manifold. The muffler was too small and 1 of the 2 bolts holding the exhaust to the manifold was missing, that'll do it. Quiet as a mouse now.

I trust my mech with my life. I knew his father before his father knew his mother. Great mech, he "listens". We've had a few chats about the car, he's seen and loves it. And I keep saying "you have to think in the 70's. Where today we'd use wd-40, they used graphite, etc". Told him I bought the shop and body manual, he said he already downloaded them both to his iPhone. Gotta love it. This car was sold decades before his parents knew each other, so cool. He's also the clutch mechanic on the #4 alcohol Funny Car "Follow A Dream" which is based locally. I'm in good hands. Old cars aren't his wheelhouse, but he's good enough to research something before he reaches for his tools.

This is going to be a fun ride. And the advice and opinion I've already received from you folks here has been worth its weight in gold. There will be MANY more posts as this journey proceeds, we'll all have fun. Did I mention we're already in 4 shows this year? Including Larz Anderson? LOL! No pressure.

BTW, one of the vokes refused the car for paint and body work. 2 reasons, its too 'old' (the kids in the program wouldn't care about it), and I'm "not in their area geographically". To wit I responded "I'm in your area geographically for tax purposes ergo I'm supporting the school", no comment. 2 other vokes in line, if they both blow me off I'll get the engine work done, tires and battery, stick on that script, and we're going to the shows anyway in 'sub-survivor mode', I don't care. I love the car and we're going. The right shop/person will come along in its perfect time to do the body/paint/roof.

I'm going to try to attach my live Facebook feed when the car went to Lou's Custom Exhaust, the first day I really drove it. First for fuel and to see Scott, then for an inspection sticker at his other garage, then to Lou's. This was the only time I've driven the car since the test drive a week earlier.

BE ADVISED - the language and comments are rated "R", you've been warned, enjoy! Laurie!
https://www.facebook.com/laurie.kraynick/videos/1545362905578853/ (https://www.facebook.com/laurie.kraynick/videos/1545362905578853/)


Great, the Facebook attachments work. Here's the car running after the new muffler was installed, the exhaust was actually bolted onto the manifold, and another 'leak' was found and welded.
https://www.facebook.com/laurie.kraynick/videos/1545382015576942/ (https://www.facebook.com/laurie.kraynick/videos/1545382015576942/)
Title: Re: Laurie's 1970 Fleetwood Brougham Restoration
Post by: Cape Cod Fleetwood on January 03, 2018, 01:57:24 AM
Since I can post Facebook links here, here you go.
BE ADVISED - language is rated "R" in some spots, very emotional night. The folks you hear me talking to are messaging live on Facebook as this was 'live'.
https://www.facebook.com/laurie.kraynick/videos/1542638592517951/ (https://www.facebook.com/laurie.kraynick/videos/1542638592517951/)

Saying good night the first night
https://www.facebook.com/laurie.kraynick/videos/1542654295849714/ (https://www.facebook.com/laurie.kraynick/videos/1542654295849714/)

The first ride to get fuel and a sticker. 10 *GALLONS* of fuel.. LOL!
https://www.facebook.com/laurie.kraynick/videos/1545290238919453/ (https://www.facebook.com/laurie.kraynick/videos/1545290238919453/)

Our day at Lou's Custom Exhaust right afterwards
https://www.facebook.com/laurie.kraynick/videos/1545362905578853/ (https://www.facebook.com/laurie.kraynick/videos/1545362905578853/)

And after the muffler work was done
https://www.facebook.com/laurie.kraynick/videos/1545382015576942/ (https://www.facebook.com/laurie.kraynick/videos/1545382015576942/)
Title: Re: Laurie's 1970 Fleetwood Brougham Restoration
Post by: Cape Cod Fleetwood on January 03, 2018, 02:14:52 AM
I think Art has some very helpful advice here.

Laurie, as the number of topics you start grows, it will be hard to track what replies you have to what as things move down on the list.  As time goes by and you're 10 topics ahead, finding an answer you need on a past topic may get lost in the weeds, so to speak.  I think your path ahead is an ideal candidate for starting a blog in the restoration blog.

Starting one post, in the restoration blog, will allow us as forum members one place to go to see your progress and offer the best advice we can.  I know as someone who tries to offer advice where I can, I sometimes get lost trying to find a post I know I want to comment on but don't have the time right then and there to do so, and trying to find it later.

One restoration blog thread will help you keep organized.

If you want to start a blog, I'd be more than happy to merge all your threads into the one thread in the restoration blog to help you stay organized.

I think it would be an interesting thread.

LOVE your idea, thank you! It would be 'neater'. And I just posted videos too.
Thank you!
Laurie!
Title: Re: Laurie's 1970 Fleetwood Brougham Restoration
Post by: Highwayman68 on January 03, 2018, 09:37:45 AM
I can't get access to the videos on FB. I also can't find a Friend Request button on your FB page to hopefully gain access to the videos, I really want to see these videos as I am enjoying your endeavor here with your new toy.
Title: Re: Laurie's 1970 Fleetwood Brougham Restoration
Post by: Cape Cod Fleetwood on January 03, 2018, 09:46:42 AM
I can't get access to the videos on FB. I also can't find a Friend Request button on your FB page to hopefully gain access to the videos, I really want to see these videos as I am enjoying your endeavor here with your new toy.

Sorry, I had to tighten up my FB page a while back. Message me and I'll send you a friend request!
If anyone else on FB can't see the vids because we're not "friends", message me for a friend request, just PLEASE say you're from this forum, thanks! Laurie!
Title: Re: Laurie's 1970 Fleetwood Brougham Restoration
Post by: 49er on January 03, 2018, 10:15:58 AM
I dont facebook , you tube, linkein, uface or anything even close. So i cant see them. My kids tell me, oh dad your so out of it. Just the way i like it. I tell my own kids, adults now, i dont care to know what you people are doing every single minute of the day. I do to my Caddys , old , slow, fat and out of shape, balding tires and gas tanks so large your bumping 100 bucks to fill one. These old Caddys seem to understand me. Oh dad, your just not with it. Perfect
Title: Re: Laurie's 1970 Fleetwood Brougham Restoration
Post by: Cape Cod Fleetwood on January 03, 2018, 02:59:06 PM
I dont facebook , you tube, linkein, uface or anything even close. So i cant see them. My kids tell me, oh dad your so out of it. Just the way i like it. I tell my own kids, adults now, i dont care to know what you people are doing every single minute of the day. I do to my Caddys , old , slow, fat and out of shape, balding tires and gas tanks so large your bumping 100 bucks to fill one. These old Caddys seem to understand me. Oh dad, your just not with it. Perfect

Perfectly understandable. All those Caddy Facebook pages will miss you.....  ;)
Laurie!
Title: Re: Laurie's 1970 Fleetwood Brougham Restoration
Post by: Cape Cod Fleetwood on January 03, 2018, 03:12:11 PM
Yes! My first part arrived today! Trust me, I won't post pics of every delivery, but this is the first one, so... And my dining room is the designated storage depot until all the parts are installed. Hey, with the right lamp....

But that's beside the point, at this point in time, flash point, what's the point, make your point, point given, point taken, get the point, moot point, point of view, point of contact, tipping point, POINT OF NO RETURN!



Title: Re: Laurie's 1970 Fleetwood Brougham Restoration
Post by: 35-709 on January 04, 2018, 09:29:01 PM
Glad you pointed that out!

BTW, I don't do Facebook either.  Hope you will continue to post pictures and narrative here as you go.
Title: Re: Laurie's 1970 Fleetwood Brougham Restoration
Post by: Cape Cod Fleetwood on January 04, 2018, 10:28:25 PM
Glad you pointed that out!

BTW, I don't do Facebook either.  Hope you will continue to post pictures and narrative here as you go.

LOL! Too bad, the videos are pretty cool.
Laurie

PS got 1 of 5 Summit boxes today.... yeah!
Title: Re: Laurie's 1970 Fleetwood Brougham Restoration
Post by: Cape Cod Fleetwood on January 07, 2018, 10:50:53 AM
Hey guys, I know several of you do body work. Was wondering if you could guesstimate how many gallons of paint, sealer etc would be necessary for the car? If it goes to a voke I'll obviously be responsible for buying the materials. And I've reached out to a couple of local body shops too, 1 is a start up, the owner is well regarded, and he's trying to make a name for himself. The other owns a completely correct numbers matching 70 hemi cuda so I know they're all about old cars.

Yes I'm cleaning the ice and snow off the tarp when it storms, can't wait to see my car again.

Laurie
Title: Re: Laurie's 1970 Fleetwood Brougham Restoration
Post by: 49er on January 07, 2018, 11:52:22 AM
Painting a car is relative. What part of country, labor rates etc. Materials are expensive everywhere. You get what you pay for applies for sure. Cost commensurate with the shop chosen and the desire of the outcome acheived. I would think, you want a 70 flw done perfect, every inperfection taken out, then 7 mths from now wet sanded and polished would be 10 k plus. But thats only a guess. Im having a roof , hood and 2 fenders done on a 38 LaSalle, 4200. So its all relative
Title: Re: Laurie's 1970 Fleetwood Brougham Restoration
Post by: Cape Cod Fleetwood on January 07, 2018, 10:43:51 PM
Painting a car is relative. What part of country, labor rates etc. Materials are expensive everywhere. You get what you pay for applies for sure. Cost commensurate with the shop chosen and the desire of the outcome acheived. I would think, you want a 70 flw done perfect, every inperfection taken out, then 7 mths from now wet sanded and polished would be 10 k plus. But thats only a guess. Im having a roof , hood and 2 fenders done on a 38 LaSalle, 4200. So its all relative

That's cool, sounds great! Just wondering how many gallons of paint/sealer goes into a 1970 Fleetwood....
Laurie!
Title: Re: Laurie's 1970 Fleetwood Brougham Restoration
Post by: Dan LeBlanc on January 08, 2018, 07:45:15 AM
Number of gallons depends highly on what the mixing ratio is of the sprayable material.

For a 62 CDV, I had bought a gallon of Spies Hecker basecoat because it was the only manufacturer who could replicate the tri stage colour I wanted in a 2 stage.  I used other brands before.  Well, a gallon of that at a 1:1 ratio of basecoat to reducer yielded 2 gallons of sprayable material.  I had enough to do the coupe and another small car I was flipping at the time.  Had I used another colour in my normal brand at an 8:1/2:1 mixing ratio (8 parts base, to 1/2 part activator, to 1 part reducer), I would've needed much more basecoat.

If the colour on your Fleetwood is a low hiding colour, that will also dictate how much material you'll need.  Some manufacturers it could be, others it couldn't depending on their formula.

So, that's all going to depend largely on the painter and what he agrees to spray for you.  Your painter will be able to tell you.
Title: Re: Laurie's 1970 Fleetwood Brougham Restoration
Post by: Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621 on January 08, 2018, 08:02:05 AM
Just wondering how many gallons of paint/sealer goes into a 1970 Fleetwood....

Whatever the man at the vo-tech school says.  ;)
Title: Re: Laurie's 1970 Fleetwood Brougham Restoration
Post by: 49er on January 08, 2018, 08:11:31 AM
5
Whatever the man at the vo-tech school says.  ;)
[/quote]
      I second that.
Title: Re: Laurie's 1970 Fleetwood Brougham Restoration
Post by: David King (kz78hy) on January 08, 2018, 07:01:07 PM
I was having a hard time understanding what "voke" meant.  If it does mean vocational education, then the outcome of the car might be less than what is desirable.

My garage has in it the first car I did while taking auto body in 1977.  Dad was cheap with an exclamation point.  So the '64 Studebaker his mother bought new and he had stored away got to be painted in Connersville Vocational School while I was a student.  That car was my learning of auto body and painting skills.  Fast forward to today, the body itself has held up pretty good, the paint was bad then, and time has not helped at all.

If you don't mind a sander touching the trim now and then and a tape off that is almost close to what is supposed to be covered, then this is place for you. 

There is overspray on the weatherstriping of the Studebaker and the voids in paint on the rims where the wheel weights were, and those drive me nuts today; but it reminds me of a time and reinforces why details matter.

David
Title: Re: Laurie's 1970 Fleetwood Brougham Restoration
Post by: Cape Cod Fleetwood on January 11, 2018, 01:48:43 AM
Hey folks!

Just an update if you're interested on the painting saga. I'm back to work now so my net yakking/net shopping time is greatly reduced. SO GLAD I got done what I did and got all the parts here. The script and roof and readily available so those will wait until she heads to the beauty shop. Engine/misc work will get done after it comes out of the shop... I want it done before... I need to cajole my crew chief a bit more, we'll see.

NO voke will take the car, I've talked to 5 and a dear friend sits on the state advisory committee to the tech schools, not even his influence helps. Why... None will take a car this "old" (is there an age discrimination suit here?) and the kids aren't smart enough ergo can't stay focused long enough to do something like this. It was worth a try, I'm such a huge supporter of trade schools and wanted to help while they helped me. Whatever.

After finishing a morning of work related calls I spent the afternoon making calls for the car. Called 5 (five) big/local autobody collision shops. *THEY WON'T DO IT*  "Lady, I can get a crash in here today, spend 3 days bolting on new parts and a quick spray and I make 5 grand. YOUR car would take up space for a month and require my guys to think, I can't do it, sorry."

I'm not making this up.

So I called a "restoration" company down Cape, emailed pics. "No problem, about 12K".

HA! I could have BOUGHT a pristine 70 for less.

Called my friend who runs a custom exhaust shop, he did the exhaust work on The Ark, in tears. "Marc who do I call, what do I do." He said call his friend Mike who owns/runs Hyannis Vintage Restoration, "he's a Marine, you guys can bond." I'm dying, I'm like Marc all they do Barrett-Jackson, Mecum, Jay Leno cars, he won't even return my call...  "call him Laurie"

<sigh> So I called. "Mike? Semper Fi, Marc from Lou's told me to give you a call" you have the 70 Caddy, Navy right?
LONG chat on the phone... he asked for and received all my pics... he called me back, another LONG chat on the phone. Drove the point home this is not a frame off restoration, its a local car, a cruiser, a few local shows, drive ins, its my time capsule. Its not going to Barrett, Mecum or Concours, just a local vet's car to be driven and enjoyed, it just needs some love, it just needs a high end Macco job. And momma doesn't have an unlimited budget.

We live in the same town... he's coming HERE to see the car so I don't have to drive it on salty roads or pay to tow it there (and back if I can't afford him). Speaking of afford, he was very vocal that while he's pleased his shop is very busy doing 5 and 6 figure restorations for all the beautiful people, he wants people to know he WILL do classics like mine that are staying local and not going to big auction houses. And that's a piece of his business he's trying to expand, people like me are afraid to call him and he wants to change that. But why? If the high end market is so good why bother with us peons?

"Because everyone has the right to a nice car. When is your first show?" May, Larz Anderson. "OK, that's enough time."

Stay tuned.... prayers appreciated.
Laurie
Title: Re: Laurie's 1970 Fleetwood Brougham Restoration
Post by: wrefakis on January 11, 2018, 10:21:05 AM
time for my 2 cents
70 Fleetwood the first Cadillac I ever drove brand new in October of 1969 (not mine of course ,we had no car or $ for gas)
can close my eyes and see all the ones I wanted and lost including the red sunroof car that ended up a new York city taxi
yea silver red leather vogue tires ,mauve double white, dark walnut tan 7 tan, Lucerne with white top and leather and so on, heck I took the long way to school just to see cadillacs

but 47 years later
I love your new England resolve but
love it or leave it
when you start on body work and rust repair it never ends
what you can see is 10 % of what is under the roof and moldings
I have a super nice 69 Fleetwood with low miles that needs some paint ,but rust free and I am going to leave it as a driver did the service and brake system good to go

the body shops do not want the car, because they know how involved it gets
I know also because in 1989 I sold a good buddy who owned the shop that did all my body work a super nice 90% rust free 69 Fleetwood
he loved it so much that he set out on a restoration in his own shop in 2009 when he closed it was 20$ later and 75% done
drive as is
enjoy
Title: Re: Laurie's 1970 Fleetwood Brougham Restoration
Post by: Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621 on January 11, 2018, 10:39:04 AM
drive as is
enjoy

My thoughts exactly.

Put only what you absolutely must to make it an enjoyable driver; the rest into the "money-toward-a-better-70 Fleetwood fund". Not only will brain & wallet damage be reduced incalculably, the final result would not begin to compare to the unmolested original.

This advice made in utmost sincerity.

Title: Re: Laurie's 1970 Fleetwood Brougham Restoration
Post by: 49er on January 11, 2018, 11:25:22 AM
Mine too. Both Bill and Eric are right on the money. Time cost money and lots of it. Making a big car like that is time and more time and then some more. I dont know anybody working for 10 bucks an hr anymore. Best to wait like Bill did for the best one available . The dream can turn into nightmare real fast.
Title: Re: Laurie's 1970 Fleetwood Brougham Restoration
Post by: Cape Cod Fleetwood on January 11, 2018, 07:22:07 PM
Hey guys,
I appreciate the input, truly.

My dad (RIP) dropped this car into my life for a reason. I know what the car is 'worth', I know what I've spent so far and how
far I'm willing to go, I won't cross that line. To me it looks icky with the bumps under the paint, and its not its correct color. We'll see what happens.

Laurie!
Title: Re: Laurie's 1970 Fleetwood Brougham Restoration
Post by: 59-in-pieces on January 12, 2018, 11:22:40 AM
I could not believe my eyes, reading your post a few back.
MARINES DON'T CRY.
What is all that about, (GI Jane, Demi Moore)- LOL - LMAO - tough "guy"
Have fun,
Steve B.
Title: Re: Laurie's 1970 Fleetwood Brougham Restoration
Post by: Cape Cod Fleetwood on January 12, 2018, 11:06:07 PM
I could not believe my eyes, reading your post a few back.
MARINES DON'T CRY.
What is all that about, (GI Jane, Demi Moore)- LOL - LMAO - tough "guy"
Have fun,
Steve B.
Semper Fi, etc. I was Navy, we cry! LOL!
Laurie
Title: Re: Laurie's 1970 Fleetwood Brougham Restoration
Post by: Cape Cod Fleetwood on January 14, 2018, 12:36:21 AM
Title came today, on my birthday, how many more signs do I need?
Laurie!
Title: Re: Laurie's 1970 Fleetwood Brougham Restoration
Post by: Cape Cod Fleetwood on January 14, 2018, 12:40:33 AM
My dining room, 4 tires and a box of parts. Anyone else?

Though the 4 Coker tires all came from Summit and arrived on the same day, each pair is wrapped differently.
2 looked to be shrink wrapped and 2 loose wrapped. Called Summit, checked the numbers, they're the same tires.
Just wrapped differently. Would this freak anyone else out or am I just being a chick? Summit said they're all the same
and guaranteed for the life of the tread... just weird. Anyone?

Laurie
Title: Re: Laurie's 1970 Fleetwood Brougham Restoration
Post by: 35-709 on January 14, 2018, 09:05:13 AM
Laurie, here is a link to how to read tire date codes ---   https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiretech/techpage.jsp?gclid=EAIaIQobChMI25661trX2AIVhrrACh2pTgaDEAAYASAAEgL1yvD_BwE&techid=11&s_kwcid=AL!3756!3!231171456889!p!!g!!how%20to%20read%20tire%20dates&ef_id=WltvDAAAAYA-N9Yx:20180114145404:s

My opinion ---

I would say that if your new tires are all approximately the same date (and within a year or so of when you bought them), you are good to go.  A wide discrepancy between tire dates (a couple of years?) might be worth another call to Summit.

Another thought, due to their construction and the type of "rubber" compounds used, radial tires can and do deteriorate just sitting on the shelf.  10 year old (sometimes less) radials can be (are) dangerous no matter how much tread is left on them.

P.S. Happy Birthday!
Title: Re: Laurie's 1970 Fleetwood Brougham Restoration
Post by: Cape Cod Fleetwood on January 14, 2018, 09:19:08 AM
Laurie, here is a link to how to read tire date codes ---   https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiretech/techpage.jsp?gclid=EAIaIQobChMI25661trX2AIVhrrACh2pTgaDEAAYASAAEgL1yvD_BwE&techid=11&s_kwcid=AL!3756!3!231171456889!p!!g!!how%20to%20read%20tire%20dates&ef_id=WltvDAAAAYA-N9Yx:20180114145404:s

My opinion ---

I would say that if your new tires are all approximately the same date (and within a year or so of when you bought them), you are good to go.  A wide discrepancy between tire dates (a couple of years?) might be worth another call to Summit.

Another thought, due to their construction and the type of "rubber" compounds used, radial tires can and do deteriorate just sitting on the shelf.  10 year old (sometimes less) radials can be (are) dangerous no matter how much tread is left on them.

P.S. Happy Birthday!

Great info, thank you so much!
Laurie! (on her way to work on a Sunday)  >:(
Title: Re: Laurie's 1970 Fleetwood Brougham Restoration
Post by: WTL on January 14, 2018, 12:54:17 PM
I'd probably have like tires installed together on the front or rear. 

Title: Re: Laurie's 1970 Fleetwood Brougham Restoration
Post by: 35-709 on January 14, 2018, 12:59:09 PM
Absolutely!  I think Laurie's concern was that some had sat around for a while because of the different wrappings which I would want to clarify also.
Title: Re: Laurie's 1970 Fleetwood Brougham Restoration
Post by: Cape Cod Fleetwood on January 14, 2018, 04:13:57 PM
Zactly on both previous comments.
Laurie!
Title: Re: Laurie's 1970 Fleetwood Brougham Restoration
Post by: Chuck Swanson on January 15, 2018, 11:02:07 PM
My dining room, 4 tires and a box of parts. Anyone else?

Though the 4 Coker tires all came from Summit and arrived on the same day, each pair is wrapped differently.
2 looked to be shrink wrapped and 2 loose wrapped. Called Summit, checked the numbers, they're the same tires.
Just wrapped differently. Would this freak anyone else out or am I just being a chick? Summit said they're all the same
and guaranteed for the life of the tread... just weird. Anyone?

Laurie

Look like 62880, if so looking good and good choice!!   ;D

Just don't lean the black part of tire on the whitewall when unwrappped, as it can mark up the whitewall...remind your tire person when installling :) Chuck
Title: Re: Laurie's 1970 Fleetwood Brougham Restoration
Post by: Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621 on January 16, 2018, 07:16:47 AM
Zactly on both previous comments.
Laurie!

I would suggest contacting Coker directly and see what they have to say.