Where did the 53 Eldos post go?
Quote from: Quentin Hall on December 29, 2017, 11:16:44 PM
Where did the 53 Eldos post go?
You missed your fun. Most likely flagged..... >:D
Bobby
I was just warming up to give everybody a rev up.
I was really enjoying that post, the classic dilemma, buy and restore or buy one that is original or done at a much higher price.
I don't care what anyone says including Quentin, but the price of those cars is slowly coming down to earth, while the price of restoration just keeps going up.
Quote from: gouldsom on December 30, 2017, 02:48:16 AM
... the price of those cars is slowly coming down to earth...
What is the source of this statement?
My guess is the OP removed the first post which eliminates the thread in toto.
I read some of postings a day ago or so. Really not our best effort to make a new person feel welcome.
David
Quote from: David King (kz78hy) on December 30, 2017, 01:20:46 PM
I read some of postings a day ago or so. Really not our best effort to make a new person feel welcome.
David
David,
Hi. I think that guy was only throwing that car out there on the forum so he didn't have to pay for advertising. In my opinion, it was way overpriced and I think some people thought of him as being greedy and just "phishing". I don't think any harm was done. Had he come on here and approached it differently or more realistically, I think everyone would have tried to help out. Just my 2 cents..... ::)
Bobby
So now that it is no longer posted, what was the value?
Seems that restored ones go for $125k to $250k.
Restoration and parts acquisition would be at least $100k to $150k.
After restoration, value would be $125k to $250k.
So with some tricky arithmetic, the car's value was $0 to $100k.
Appears it was priced in the "range".
Your thoughts?
Compared to other classics of the era for example 356 Porsche and 190sl and 300sl Mercedes, perhaps even XK 120 and XK140 Jaguars, personally I feel that the 53 Eldorado, considering its pedigree, rarity and importance in postwar Cadillac history is still way undervalued.
I may have a vested interest in saying that but look at a current Porsche speedster price and tell me what your thoughts are.
My Dad talked my uncle out of buying a 57 Carrera for $400 because the restoration cost would be too high when I was a 12 or 13.
Several years ago one on eBay in similar condition did around $70K IIRC but that also included two factory replacement rear quarters and a lot of other '53 ELC trim parts.
Quote from: chrisntam on December 30, 2017, 02:08:42 PM
So with some tricky arithmetic, the car's value was $0 to $100k.
Your thoughts?
Chris,
You already did the math for us.... ;D ;D ;D
Bobby
Looked at Hemmings.com, one for $250k, one for $280k. Paper edition has one for $185k...
I'd prolly offend him with my offer....
:P
Quote from: chrisntam on December 30, 2017, 06:33:52 PM
I'd prolly offend him with my offer....
I think that was the problem ::).......
Bobby
I have to agree too, the posts were not very welcoming.
We potentially lost a future member.
We gained a record of rare milestone car , with images and a link in the chain of its ownership. This should be encouraged not discouraged.
Quote from: V63 on December 31, 2017, 02:45:31 AM
We gained a record of rare milestone car , with images and a link in the chain of its ownership. This should be encouraged not discouraged.
And maybe that car will one day show up somewhere restored and he'll have the last laugh. I wonder if I'll still be alive when that day comes. ::)
Bobby
Quote from: V63 on December 31, 2017, 02:45:31 AM
I have to agree too, the posts were not very welcoming.
We potentially lost a future member.
We gained a record of rare milestone car , with images and a link in the chain of its ownership. This should be encouraged not discouraged.
Yabbut,
The guy could have approached it a little differently as well.
What was the $97,000.00 going to get you? What was good on the car? The title?
It wasn't a '70 hemi 'cuda convertible.....
If that poster was a serious Cadillac guy, he would have been on here before. He ONLY came on the AACA and CLC to sell the car.
He only revealed he was a broker after we questioned the price.
The debate over appropriateness over whether to comment on pricing will always divide forum members. Some will say never comment, it's rude and inappropriate.
I think it is cool he thought of our organization as good place to expose the available car. The selling process was just starting after all. A '53 Eldorado is an upper eshelon car in the whole hobby, not just the Cadillac world.
The collector crowd for this car will understand what it is and how hard they are to do and most likely not their first or 10th car restored. So a smart and well to do pool of people will determine what the value of it is, and most likely very quietely so we won't know unless they are our close friends.
Unknown '53 Eldo's come out of darkness once every 2 years or so and with each one, the likelihood of another gets a lot smaller.
These cars have a long track record in the collector world and I agree with Quentin that they are very undervalued. So the long view would be these cars have good legs from an investment perpective.
The initial pricing seemed high to me as well, but what do I know about '53 Eldo's other than they are in the same league as the Eldorado Brougham's and I do follow those pretty close. Maybe that complete car with rust is not a 97k car, but it could be 85k car... Whatever the number, it will be most likely be higher than the entire car cost and restoration budget for the majority of cars discussed here.
The national CLC provides this site and the least we should do is promote the club to potential new members with a positive experience.
David King
I think those discussions may already be taking place David. In any event to me a 53 Eldo find is like finding another Jackson Pollock. The late Matt Larsen helped instil in me an obsession in this model. I’m looking forward to assisting whoever gets it.
There was nothing on that car that I haven’t previously had to find, repair, remake or fabricate. So yes it will be a year or two or more ( it doesn’t matter how long) and that car will be restored. Thankfully it has survived.
G'day Quentin,
In response to your last post, which I again removed, i did email you regarding the initial deletion this morning as soon as I deleted it.
If you did not receive the email, then you are using a different email address than the one posted against your profile.
A link to a 1 1/4 hour video of Jackson Pollock has nothing to do with the subject of the '53 Eldo in question.
Bruce. >:D
Quote from: David King (kz78hy) on December 31, 2017, 03:40:16 PM
I think it is cool he thought of our organization as good place to expose the available car. The selling process was just starting after all. A '53 Eldorado is an upper eshelon car in the whole hobby, not just the Cadillac world.
The collector crowd for this car will understand what it is and how hard they are to do and most likely not their first or 10th car restored. So a smart and well to do pool of people will determine what the value of it is, and most likely very quietely so we won't know unless they are our close friends.
Unknown '53 Eldo's come out of darkness once every 2 years or so and with each one, the likelihood of another gets a lot smaller.
These cars have a long track record in the collector world and I agree with Quentin that they are very undervalued. So the long view would be these cars have good legs from an investment perpective.
The initial pricing seemed high to me as well, but what do I know about '53 Eldo's other than they are in the same league as the Eldorado Brougham's and I do follow those pretty close. Maybe that complete car with rust is not a 97k car, but it could be 85k car... Whatever the number, it will be most likely be higher than the entire car cost and restoration budget for the majority of cars discussed here.
The national CLC provides this site and the least we should do is promote the club to potential new members with a positive experience.
David King
Noted collector Neil DeAtley passed away this past late summer and his 1953 Eldorado is going to be auctioned at Barrett Jackson in Arizona later this month. A very nice car that as I understand it has never been taken apart and has absolutely no rust. I'm anxious to see what it brings.
Bruce, I respectfully disagree and point to the parallels brought up in the video which is all about the perceived value of a previously unknown artwork.
That is why I thought it prudent to post so that my friends could share in it.
Perhaps you should watch the first 5 mins and then report back as to whether you agree or disagree with what I said. It has everything to do with a previously unknown 53 Eldorado.
Here is the link once more.
https://youtu.be/7Zxqj2gjigU
Here is my current email.
53eldorado.qhemail addresses not permitted
Ps if everybody looks really hard, at 2.11 there is a 59 Biarritz in the cabinet window.
Quote from: Quentin Hall on December 31, 2017, 09:42:47 PM
Here is my current email.
53eldorado.qhemail addresses not permitted
Ps if everybody looks really hard, at 2.11 there is a 59 Biarritz in the cabinet window.
Clearly, Cadillac related!
;)
Some randoms from my phone to keep you all entertained. Note the prototype with flat belt line and Carson top.
A few nice period pics surfaced on Facebook this week that I haven’t seen previously.
Quote from: gouldsom on December 30, 2017, 02:48:16 AM
I was really enjoying that post, the classic dilemma, buy and restore or buy one that is original or done at a much higher price.
I don't care what anyone says including Quentin, but the price of those cars is slowly coming down to earth, while the price of restoration just keeps going up.
I like Richard and Quentin was enjoying that post and waiting to see where it went. I didn’t expect it to disappear though.
It was a healthy discussion on why what I thought was a fire damaged 53 Eldo that had been left out in the junk yard unprotected to rot then “saved “ by someone who obviously never loved it enough to repair it, but now thought it to be worth almost a 100k. Things have moved on as Richard has eluded to. The prices of these cars and indeed most 50’s Eldos in general has remained static as mentioned by Quentin. However parts exclusive to them have reached new heights further adding to the restoration costs of basket cases as presented on this thread. The high end of the price range quoted is a 100 point concours car, and to turn our subject vehicle into that would require IMO at least $250 K resulting in a $350 investment. So even the average resto would gobble up $150K and the figures again just don’t work at $97K purchase. An average car isn’t worth $250K in todays market it would seem
For years a good quality American collector car that fell into the rule of thumb of low production , expensive when new, sporty, first of series last of series etc performed well at about 10% per annum gain. I haven’t seen that for some time now. NCRS quality mid year Corvettes struggle to get what they did 10 years ago. The US domestic collector car market in general has flattened off. Indeed it appears that the whole market has changed drastically of late. The big money is being invested elsewhere. European exotics , one off resto rods with late running gear are commanding prices way above their stock restored siblings Many older private collections have been broken up and scattered around ,combine that with cars that were once thought of as parts cars being rebuilt and flipped on because the huge aftermarket parts structure supplies everything to achieve that and you create a watered down marketplace and prices go soft.
So every 53 Eldo that comes out of the woodwork and is rebuilt by craftsman like Quentin further erodes into that particular market, and as a result it continues to remain flat or slowly sink as it has for at least the last 5 years with the exception of a spike in 2016 if there are more cars than buyers, and there are always 53 Eldos for sale. 59 Eldorado’s haven’t performed well lately either IMO despite all the hype around them they appear to have flattened out also.
My 28 Model A roadster is another example , today it is not worth restoring, I would invest almost twice its current value into it and over capitalise it . I’m better of just keeping it running without altering its patina In fact restored cars have become so cheap they are being used as donor cars for bodywork for a younger generation of Hot Rodders filling the void left by older owners. There are running restored complete chassis all over the internet that almost cant be given away. I mentioned Patina there is another trend appearing across the whole spectrum due to rising restoration costs. We see this in the Cadillac world, once that was unheard of.
Look at the 53 Corvette as an example, Americas first sports car. Why would a heavily disguised 6 cylinder powerglide 53 Chevy sedan be worth $100k more than a concours 53 Eldorado ? Americas finest car. Because the market perceives it differently than us. An Eldo isn’t exciting it doesn’t look like a sports car, it was always an older or wealthy mans car in period. Their production figures were similar, so are their survivor rates but the Corvette has always been the better performer financially.
Then throw in all the late model muscle, offerings the “collector this and collector that†Corvettes Mopars Mustangs and even Cadillacs and a whole other chunk of potential collector car investment dollar is sucked up.
So….IMO, the market place is changing , restoration costs are climbing by the day, and a badly rotted but otherwise not too bad 53 Eldo just isn’t worth $97K , especially when we don’t even know if it had all its parts with it. A hundred thousand dollars buys an awful lot of restored car nowadays.
It used to be it didn’t matter what you spent , it was recoverable eventually. I don’t believe that to be the case any more. Like Richard’s 59 Biarritz which I sold him years ago you have got to love and want the car so much that it doesn’t really matter about the money......or does it?
I sometimes look at my body and calculate that I’ve spent $450 000 on food and alcohol over my lifetime to get it to this point and “ this is how it looks†?!?
Gym membership and the time alone to repair my body would surely cost more than the likely chance of anyone wanting to spend their valuable time to spend the rest of their days with me. I’m spent.
I should have fasted and had I put that same money into bit coins a mere 18 months ago I would now own all the money in the world. Hindsight.
Duncan,
A nicely written and logical piece. Parts prices for my '47 will also give you heart failure. It's a shame, because the car isn't worth 1/2 of what it was less than 10 years ago. Just have to enjoy it and forget about the rest. And I also don't get the Resto-Mod thing, but to each his own. There were so many ships I could have jumped on years ago, but just thought they were fads, including "Bitcoins". Man, I'm just always last to the party ::)
Bobby
Quote from: Quentin Hall on January 04, 2018, 05:05:02 PM
I sometimes look at my body and calculate that I’ve spent $450 000 on food and alcohol over my lifetime to get it to this point and “ this is how it looks” ?!?
Gym membership and the time alone to repair my body would surely cost more than the likely chance of anyone wanting to spend their valuable time to spend the rest of their days with me. I’m spent.
I should have fasted and had I put that same money into bit coins a mere 18 months ago I would now own all the money in the world. Hindsight.
Only Quentin Hall could have come up with that reply.... :)
Quote from: Duncan Fox on January 04, 2018, 05:44:12 PM
Only Quentin Hall could have come up with that reply.... :)
Yes, of course.... >:D
Bobby
I don’t have to worry anymore. This just got this texted to me. I don’t even remember buying them. How lucky am I ?
My deposit on the Eldorado!!!