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Why are repair agencies for our cars hard to find?

Started by "Cadillac Kid" Greg Surfas 15364, August 17, 2016, 12:14:44 AM

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Scot Minesinger

Ken,

I so get it.  If I drive over to a client's office shake their hand and immediately leave driving straight back to my office, it is a loss with a $300 invoice.  Sometimes it takes an hour to do a five minute job on an older car.  The key is communication.  Anyone who I help with their car, if they start talking about keeping costs down, I say "you will probably be happier if someone else fixes your car".  And that is so true. 

The $300 (over a 2 or 3 hour period) has to pay rent, insurance, taxes, clerical, accounting, worker's comp, overhead, utilities, medical insurance, maintenance on the facility and etc.  Your post reminds me of how anxious I am to get out of the rat race and retire, but got about another decade to go.
Fairfax Station, VA  22039 (Washington DC Sub)
1970 Cadillac DeVille Convertible
1970 Cadillac Sedan DeVille
1970 four door Convertible w/Cadillac Warranty

The Tassie Devil(le)

Retirement is good, but I don't use that word to describe my present status.   I am "getting a life".

Bruce. >:D
'72 Eldorado Convertible (LHD)
'70 Ranchero Squire (RHD)
'74 Chris Craft Gull Wing (SH)
'02 VX Series II Holden Commodore SS Sedan
(Past President Modified Chapter)

Past Cars of significance - to me
1935 Ford 3 Window Coupe
1936 Ford 5 Window Coupe
1937 Chevrolet Sports Coupe
1955 Chevrolet Convertible
1959 Ford Fairlane Ranch Wagon
1960 Cadillac CDV
1972 Cadillac Eldorado Coupe

cadillac ken

Scott:  I'm too can't wait to retire, and I'm even closer than you are!  But I may not be retiring anytime soon.

It's just so hard anymore and I just can't seem to figure out why.  I tend to  think there is just so little "disposable income" these days as they used to call it in the '80's (when there was such a thing!!).  Add to that costs just keep rising on everything regardless of a bad economy.

My bother in law works for Bombardier.  He has seen some huge boat dealers simply close their doors--- and not because of retirement!  His take is the same.  A young guy with a family simply doesn't have an extra $300 for a boat payment each month anymore.  He says that market has evaporated.  :(

David Greenburg

 I suppose I'm fortunate to have two very good old car friendly shops near me. While I do a lot of my own work, and have for many years, there are plenty of jobs I'm either not equipped for, or don't have time for.  In those cases, I figure an experienced professional who does this every day is more likely to have seen it before and fix it efficiently than I can.  Both the shops I patronize are sole proprietors. The first, less than a mile from my house, works on most anything, but has a passion for older cars, and always has several in his shop.  He's the only shop I've ever used where I am routinely surprised at how low the bill is, and sometimes if it only takes him a few minutes to find a loose wire or tweak an adjustment, he doesn't charge at all.  Once I brought my '59 in thinking I had a gas tank leak. When i returned at the end of the day and asked what I owed, the answer was "$2; I had to go to the station next door to top off the tank."  The other guy I consider the specialist.  He's 20 minutes away, and only works on pre-'79 American cars. He's very familiar with 50's-60's Cadillacs, and can do pretty much anything, from rebuilding Hydramatics on down.  I wouldn't say he's cheap, but I've never felt like he was gouging me. And his prices on parts are often better than I can find on my own, despite my having a pretty well developed network of parts sources.
David Greenburg
'60 Eldorado Seville
'61 Fleetwood Sixty Special

Jay Friedman

David,

In my experience good Hydra-matic rebuilders are few and far between.  This guy should be made known to everyone in your area and beyond.
1949 Cadillac 6107 Club Coupe
1932 Ford V8 Phaeton (restored, not a rod).  Sold
Decatur, Georgia
CLC # 3210, since 1984
"If it won't work, get a bigger hammer."

Scot Minesinger

David,

This post would never have started if we were so blessed.  How old are these guys?  The secret to old car repairs to me is experience, and more important, knowing when to read the shop manual instead of using experience.  Always go on line and buy the shop manual for any car I work on.  I have every shop manual plus many supplements (Eldorado Broughams, anti-skid 1970, EFI and etc) for all Caddys from 1959thru 1979 plus 1982 and some Olds, Buicks and etc.

Ken,

No entity will lend a person without a source of repayment money who will soon die, so since you cannot borrow to support retirement, my first payment from any source of income goes to that - it is top priority.  It has not been easy for me for sure, but essential.  Time consuming hobbies that cost such as gold, boating, and antique cars are on the wane.  That is another reason it is more difficult to find a good shop and I do most all mechanical work myself.  At least at the end of the day, with hobby cars you can drive your car and it is not too difficult to sell.  Boating and gold are a total money pit.

Back to the subject, it is difficult to find a good shop that will work on older cars, and it is best if you can do as many yourself as possible. 
Fairfax Station, VA  22039 (Washington DC Sub)
1970 Cadillac DeVille Convertible
1970 Cadillac Sedan DeVille
1970 four door Convertible w/Cadillac Warranty

chrisntam

1970 Deville Convertible 
Dallas, Texas

David Greenburg

Scott:

One of these guys is mid fifties, the other is probably 60+-.  I always have the shop manuals in the car.  Both guys are happy to help keep costs down, including suggesting tests/fixes to try before coming in.  They know I'm addicted and they'll have more chances to take my money.
David Greenburg
'60 Eldorado Seville
'61 Fleetwood Sixty Special

Jay Friedman

Scot, I agree with you about shop manuals.  I once went through a GM training course in which we were told to not try to memorize clearances, gaps, torque specs, repair sequences, etc. since they can change year to year in the same model car.  I've always had the impression that many mechanics don't believe in that advice. 
1949 Cadillac 6107 Club Coupe
1932 Ford V8 Phaeton (restored, not a rod).  Sold
Decatur, Georgia
CLC # 3210, since 1984
"If it won't work, get a bigger hammer."

7gen

I'm not qualified to really do major work on my car, but I'm learning. Meanwhile, I did a lot of research and found out who the go to shops were for upholstery, scissor tops, engine, body, etc., and have used them. The guy I have been using mostly is an old car buff and has his original early 70s Buick muscle car that he's kept up. I bought the shop manual, the Fisher body guide, and Cadillac Tim's climate control guide and studied them. Between us, we figure out what needs to be done. We determine what parts need to be purchased, I find them for him and he installs them. He's come in on weekends when things were quiet to work on the car and has never charged me a penny for the time he's needed to learn something new from the manual. He is absolutely great. I consider us to be partners in this car. I've also gotten plenty of help from people here such as Greg and Scot and Tim and TJ and many others, just reading their posts.

Over time, I'll learn more and do more. Meanwhile, I'm enjoying a great car. My knowledge deficit is so great that it would be years before I could enjoy this car if I had to learn everything before doing it myself. I'm working on increasing my understanding but not everyone's brain is wired the same way. I"m good at history and languages but not at understanding mechanical things. It is hard for me to do what many here find common-place. Yet I too want to enjoy this hobby at whatever level I can. 

I think with care, good people can be found and that the hobby need not be confined solely to people who work on their on cars. There's plenty of help out there. Just need to do the leg work and be willing to learn as much as we can. And ask for help when needed.

gary griffin

I think the reason as far as mechanical work is concerned is that most mechanics of today are "Parts Changers" plugging in their computer and changing the parts the computer tells them to change. Not really understanding the reasons cars actually work especially our old obsolete cars.  I grew up poor in the fifties and had to fix my cars or ride the bus or ride my bike. Took auto shop and was fascinated by the 1936 Hudson cutaway motor and transmission with moving parts. Watching the valves open and the pistons moving and the cam and distributor turning brought the whole thing into focus.  Much easier to figure out what is wrong when looking at the whole picture. Electronics and computer generated actions are a mystery to me but understanding the basics help to even understand  those newer complexities.
I use specialists for alignments and on my modern cars which never seem to need anything along with Automatic transmissions.
Gary Griffin

1940 LaSalle 5029 4 door convertible sedan
1942 Cadillac 6719 restoration almost complete?
1957 Cadillac 60-special (Needs a little TLC)
2013 Cadillac XTS daily driver

Scot Minesinger

Ken,

Most people complain about anything they have to pay for, such as but not limited to: construction (additions - $400/sq ft), appliances, kitchen or bath remodel, restaurants, lawyers, groceries and etc.   

I agree 100%, it is very aggravating when I hear people complain about the cost of maintaining/restoring their hobby cars.  Don't buy the car if you did not have a plan to maintain/repair it.  I work on cars as a hobby after my day job as my means of unwinding and relaxing, and it earns a little extra money.  When someone who wants me to work on their car starts trying to pin me down on lower pricing, I walk away - only happened once. 

It is true:  "The quality is long remembered after the price is forgotten".  I sure don't keep of track of what I have invested in my cars - that would be dumb if I want to be happy.

Your situation is different I know.  My work although it does bring in money, is entirely for the enjoyment of the hobby. 
Fairfax Station, VA  22039 (Washington DC Sub)
1970 Cadillac DeVille Convertible
1970 Cadillac Sedan DeVille
1970 four door Convertible w/Cadillac Warranty

cadillac ken

...and nothing but the best for you Scot.  Good on you for keeping it "kinda fun". 

I agree, I too don't keep track of what I spend on parts and stuff for my own cars. I just don't spend the rent money and other than that have fun is my motto.

It's a hobby, not an investment.  If you get something resembling a fair price for your car when you've had all the fun you can have with it, then that's usually a lot better than most hobbies offer.

;) Regards, ken


Glen

Gary, if you can understand the old engines you can also understand the ‘puter cars.  I got a copy of this book and it helped a lot. https://haynes.com/en-us/obd-ii-electronic-engine-management-systems-haynes-techbook
Unfortunately, the computer code is not open to anybody, even the dealer mechanics.   So sometimes it is hard to figure out what is going on. 
I buy the shop manual for all the newer cars as well as the older cars.  They run about $150 each set and come in 3 or 4 volumes. 
Glen Houlton CLC #727 
CLCMRC benefactor #104

Scot Minesinger

Good point Glen.  I hire a neighbor who works as a mechanic at the Toyota dealer who is 28 and helps me with computer stuff on cars after his shift is up.  He gets paid such that of the $120/hr the dealer charges he is very happy with my $30/hr compensation.  I see him infrequently, but that is my resource, he is honest, half my age, and staying in the area.  He has gotten computer programs for me to work on my 2007 Chevy trucks, reading codes and etc.
Fairfax Station, VA  22039 (Washington DC Sub)
1970 Cadillac DeVille Convertible
1970 Cadillac Sedan DeVille
1970 four door Convertible w/Cadillac Warranty