Bob Lutz R/T comments on Cad marketing

[Rich S]

James, your theory sounds great, that "brand loyalty" is golden. However, it seems to me Cadillac's new division head, Johan DeNyschen (sp?) has gone out-of-his way to dissociate the Cadillac brand from its past. It's most unsettling to me, as an enthusiast follower of the brand. I do not expect them to continue the "land yacht" products, but something along the lines of the fantastic El Miraj concept should have gone right into production, and the CTS Coupe should have been developed further in the third generation of the CTS line. Instead, it has been reported the Escala concept will hint of the new design direction--away from the edgy "Arts and Science" design elements of recent models. Note the "boomerang" shape of the Escala concept's tail lamps, rather than the signature vertical tail lamp element. It's quite a mistake, in my opinion.

[Big Apple Caddy]

If my 2017 CT6 Twin Turbo is any example, Cadillac is well on its way to giving the whole luxury market to its competitors. Three weeks after delivery the transmission locked up and would not shift. Cadillac told the dealer to clear the code, and if it shifts, give it back to the owner. That happened, and one week later the same failure occurred. It has been in the dealer's shop for one week being repaired. The transmission also gives very jolting 1-2 and 2-3 shifts most of the time.

Cadillac scored below the industry average in the latest J.D. Power "Initial Quality" study but so did Audi (record sales in 2015) and Mercedes-Benz (record sales in 2015).   BMW (record sales in 2015), Lexus (record sales in 2015), Lincoln, and Infiniti (second best year in 2015) each fared better in the study, though.

In the latest JDP "Vehicle Dependability" study, which looked at reliability of 2013 vehicle over three years of ownership, Cadillac was above the industry average but ranked below Lexus, Acura, Lincoln, Audi, Mercedes-Benz, Infiniti, and BMW.

Ongoing dissatisfaction with "tech" features seemed to be a key issue.

[Big Apple Caddy]

Wonder how CT6 Cadillacs are selling?

The CT6 had its best month in September (1,343 sold in the US) but was still outsold by SRX/XT5, Escalade, Escalade ESV, XTS, CTS and ATS.

[55 cadi]

As far as the commercials they show everything but the car to me, I don't care about people walking down a street or the back ground, show me the Cadillac!  Close up and more inside.

[James Landi]

 
And so, gentlemen, you're all making my point. One striking example, since the inception of the "CUE" touch system, "Consumer Reports" many years ago, customers have complained, and each year, the luxury brands up their  "tech" game, to the point now, that auto technology is one of the top market "unique selling points" and each new model year Cadillac rolls out  a great new model, "Consumer Reports" test drives the new Cadillac model, the review raves about the car in every way, but then there's the "CUE" system that drags down the entire review.  I have the mental image of a huge warehouse full of these systems, and an up grade is impossible until they run out of the units. So in spite of complaints, there's seemingly no attention paid. SO what's up with this GM brand when the "Lesser model Buick" divison appears to be so corporately nimble?    James

[Bob Schuman]

Just one more comment about the wonderful new Cadillacs. My companion's 2015 Buick LaCrosse is significantly quieter, amoother running, and smoother riding than my former 2014 XTS V-Sport. Now that I have driven my 2017 CT6 Premium Luxury a few hundred miles I can say it is better riding and quieter than the XTS, but still noticeably below the 2015 Buick in "luxury" feel and quietness. Cadillac needs to wake up.
Bob Schuman

[Scot Minesinger]

1,343 CT6 Cadillacs sold in one month is terrible, that is an annual rate of about 16,000.  Got to be thinking Cadillac would want to be in the 100k per year territory with this car.

[Big Apple Caddy]

And so, gentlemen, you're all making my point. One striking example, since the inception of the "CUE" touch system, "Consumer Reports" many years ago, customers have complained, and each year, the luxury brands up their  "tech" game, to the point now, that auto technology is one of the top market "unique selling points" and each new model year Cadillac rolls out  a great new model, "Consumer Reports" test drives the new Cadillac model, the review raves about the car in every way, but then there's the "CUE" system that drags down the entire review.  I have the mental image of a huge warehouse full of these systems, and an up grade is impossible until they run out of the units. So in spite of complaints, there's seemingly no attention paid. SO what's up with this GM brand when the "Lesser model Buick" divison appears to be so corporately nimble?    James

Cadillac had been well aware of issues/complaints with CUE and did make upgrades and Improvements to the system as part of the CT6 roll-out.  Other manufacturers have had and still have issues with their own similar systems too.

Not sure what you mean by Buick being "so corporately nimble" compared to Cadillac.

[Big Apple Caddy]

1,343 CT6 Cadillacs sold in one month is terrible, that is an annual rate of about 16,000.  Got to be thinking Cadillac would want to be in the 100k per year territory with this car.

No way!!   Especially not for a large sedan these days.  The market just isn't there and this is a reason why Cadillac continues to struggle.   Fewer and fewer people want the types of cars that used to be Cadillac's signature attraction.  The bestselling "large sedan" in the US last year was the Chevy Impala with sales of less than 117k; it's doing even worse this year.

[James Landi]

Mr. Langley---

I am attempting to make the point that we're all pretty savvy about GM corporate giants who create products that degraded the brand.   My perception-- having grown up in the 1950's is similar to other graybeards who mistily recall "Consumer Reports" stating year after year that "ALL MODELS and YEAR CADILLACS" RECOMMENDED for purchase based on value and reliability, and that frequently, Cadillac division advertised their new model year with an older model proudly stating that both represented value because of a high "standard."   By "nimble" I am suggesting that other luxury car makers have their "ear to the ground," listen to loyal past and present owners and don't ignore them-- all of this to ask the question again, Cadillac purchases space in our fabulous monthly magazine, occasionally a "key corporate executive" shows up at a CLC event, and so is there any attempt by the present leadership of our relatively small but concentrated group of smart engaged people meeting with folks at Cadillac who presently build these cars and have ONLY A FRACTIONAL understanding of the corporate culture that created and maintained prestige and earned brand loyalty?

[Scot Minesinger]

Consumer Reports would be the last place I would look for an automobile recommendation.  I remember reading it as a teenager into cars from the mid 1970's and their top pick for a family car was a Dodge Dart 4 dr sedan with slant six, and if a larger car was needed a Delta 88 with small block.  These were cars that were dull and unexciting at the time.  Granted the Olds ordered as a convertible and with 455 could be quite nice, but back then options made or broke the car regardless of model almost.

If I thought of cars as appliances like a washing machine, then OK consumer reports might be an aide.

As I first wrote, Cadillacs speak for themselves.  They all look great now, just need to keep working their plan.  Not a big fan of the engine choices offered in their cars now. Listen to the 3.6 engine start and run in a parking lot, sounds like a crappy 10 year old Toyota economy car poorly maintained.  Need the sound of power, not anemic hope it gets me home noise.  It is not too difficult to make the engine sound like a Cadillac engine should.  If I wanted to impress in one of those, probably have to pull up costing in N with engine off.

[Rich S]

Scot, you remind me of the "Start/Stall" engines in the new luxury cars, with your remark about "coasting up in Neutral with the engine off!" While I had the 2017 CT6 loaner with the 3.6 engine, the most annoying aspect of it, for me, was that "Start/Stall" engine feature. On Cadillacs, and probably other brands, the "bypass" or "disable" button for that feature has been removed on all 2017 models--in 2016 there was a button on the dash with an "A" with a circular arrow around it that had to be pushed every time the car was started, in order to disable the Start-Stop engine feature. Since this experience, I've decided I just have to accept this new engine technology, as all the manufacturer's seem to be adopting it. It sure detracts from the allure of trying to sprint out from a red light ahead of the guy in the lane next to you, if your car has got to re-start the engine . . . and from what I've read, fuel savings is often negligible unless the distance involves a lot of idling in traffic. 

[Art Director]

I have to believe that at some point our club and contemporary management communicates with us...does anyone know for certain???   James

The CLC's liaison with Cadillac is Alan Haas of Ohio, who was a longtime employee of Cadillac in Detroit. His contact information is in the International Membership Directory.

[jdemerson]

I'll weigh in on a few points in this thread.

I see at least 3 separate issues: quality and desirability of the actual car; appeal and effectiveness of advertising; and actual sales (which in part reflects the effectiveness of the first two).

The newest models are the XT5 and the CT6. Although some of the enthusiast press has been high on the XT5, Consumer Reports (December 2016) gives it a mediocre rating of 68 in the overall score. This CUV is of course an important model for Cadillac, likely its top seller if all goes well. In contrast, the CT6 has received high ratings from the enthusiast press AND from Consumer Reports (overall score of 81, December 2016 CR). The concluding sentence in CR reads, "The CT6's superb road-test score proves that it's worthy of Cadillac's old slogan, "Standard of the World"."

The current (3rd generation) CTS is, for me, an interesting case. The enthusiast press has been consistently high in its praise, and I think it is a superb model. It is stylish, great handling, and loaded with attractive features. BUT it has not sold well, perhaps largely because of being priced high; and its reliability is dismal according to Consumer Reports (December 2016, page 69). CR rates the CTS's handling as a very strong point.

I'm not a fan of the "Dare Greatly" campaign, but then I'm 30 years past the target demographic. We will see if it helps sales, but so far the results are at best mixed. I have to believe that in the long run, product counts most for sales success, but remember that "product" does include reliability and quality. We should keep our fingers crossed that the CT6 will have reliability at the same high level as the rest of the car. The appropriate test for advertising isn't whether I like it, but whether it achieves long-term sales success. (FWIW, I like the Chrysler 300 ads that were posted here.)

I word about Consumer Reports, and I've been a reader literally since grade school. They have changed over the years, especially in the way they rate automobiles. And they ARE objective -- more so than any other publication I can think of. Their statistical work is highly regarded in the profession. Their ratings these days do relate to the interests of car enthusiasts. For example, their consistently high ratings of Mata's is right on the mark (though mostly not of interest to folks on this message board). So while its easier to be critical than to give credit, I think that overall it's hard to find a publication with more credibility than CR, or one that provides better information for the consumer. (No affiliation with CR, and I do subscribe to Road and Track, Automobile, and AutoWeek.)

Plenty of room for dissent here!

John Emerson

[cadillacmike68]

CUE: Cadillac User Exasperation. 

CR - I believe they are hopelessly skewed to the import brands. I remember in the 1990s they trashed the Chevy Cavalier because it had plastic unpainted bumpers on some models. This is after they have been lavishing praise on TOYota camrys and corollas who's unpainted plastic bumpers would disintegrate in front of your eyes.

That said I do have an original April 1968 CR which is not only their annual auto issue where they praised the well laid out dash controls in Cadillacs as compared to a chevy, but they also published a test of the 1968 Sedan deVille. They had mostly very good things to say about it. They weren't thrilled with the drum front brakes, but disc was optional that year. They should have ordered the one with disc brakes.

[James Landi]

Dear Mike,

You are making my point--- throw Consumers' Report to the wind; however, when they consistently recommended Cadillac during the 50'-'60's "Highly Recommended All Model Years" their owners' reporting on satisfaction plus their driving tests simply burnished the brand.   And I entirely concur with you, high praise for driving dynamics but low satisfaction among recent purchasers who have encountered repair challenges does not drive people to the front door of the dealerships.   James

[55 cadi]

Thought I would share this with all.

Original 1955 consumer reports on many makes of that year.

And picture of car loyalty in buyers.

[James Landi]

THank you Mr. Oliver for doing some research and providing ... "a picture that says a thousand words" --- and I vividly recall that throughout that initial decade period, from the mid 1950's (your picture)  through 1968, Cadillac was THE LEADER as reported by owner surveys in Consumer Union's "Consumers; Report"  There was NEVER a month or a year, when Cadillac's leadership was in question, so that even our Depression era dads found real value validated and affirm by CU in owning a used Cadlilac as a smart investment.     James

[55 cadi]

Sorry it came out a little blurry.

If anyone wants more interesting info from that issue let me know, will post.

There is a page on frequency of different repairs between most makes
CU road tests
Transmissions
Hazards in design
4 groups of car pricing
Body dimensions in 4 door sedans
Best buys from said models, 62 series Cadillac was Best Buy out of all

Jason

[64\/54Cadillacking]

Sorry it came out a little blurry.

If anyone wants more interesting info from that issue let me know, will post.

There is a page on frequency of different repairs between most makes
CU road tests
Transmissions
Hazards in design
4 groups of car pricing
Body dimensions in 4 door sedans
Best buys from said models, 62 series Cadillac was Best Buy out of all

Jason

That'll be great Jason if you could! I like reading up on old stuff like that.

I believe Cadillac had it all in those days over it's rivals mainly because they had a great stylist in Harley Earl that transcended GM and the auto industry during the 50's and it showed. Plus you had a combination of GM's great ability in its engineering, and manufacturing prowess that helped Cadillac become the ultimate luxury car of it's time.

Not too many cars came close to competing to Cad, Lincoln's (their closest competitor) in the 50's were sorta lost. They had no real identity and it's styling was all over the place. Owning a Cadillac meant something, and it proved to others that "you made it". Cadillacs main attractability was how nice they looked. They were always flashy, sleek, sexy, beautifully sculpted cars up to a certain time frame, and this is what people wanted in a luxury car, not something stodgy, and conservative. In that respect alone, Cadillac won in this department.

Performance, reliability and quality was never a question for Cadillac for a long time, so I am not surprised that CR or other big time auto mags of the day always had Cad in first place for many years over it's rivals.