Author Topic: Legal question about the Self Starter  (Read 639 times)

Offline Glen

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  • Name: Glen Houlton
Legal question about the Self Starter
« on: December 18, 2017, 12:14:46 AM »
I have a collection of Self Starters dating from Feb. 1980 to present (maybe missing an issue or two) and due to the work of a few dedicated people who created the index of articles for the Self Starter my collection has become very much more valuable. 
The question has to do with the copyright.  It says “The Self Starter is copyright ……. The Cadillac & La Salle Club, Inc, all rights reserved.  Written permission must be granted to use or reproduce any part of this magazine, except for brief quotations.”
That would mean I can not scan in an article and post it on this web site. 
Would the CLC really complain about posting an article on the forum to help another poster?  Would it be possible to get blanket permission to post SS articles here to help others? 
Glen Houlton CLC #727 
CLCMRC benefactor #104

Offline BJM

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Re: Legal question about the Self Starter
« Reply #1 on: December 18, 2017, 08:18:11 AM »
That is a good question, hopefully someone can answer. 
Bryan J Moran
CLC # 12994
Des Moines, Iowa
1968 Cadillac Eldorado

Offline David Greenburg

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Re: Legal question about the Self Starter
« Reply #2 on: December 18, 2017, 10:58:03 AM »
I hope so.  I have been asked a number of times to post a copy of an SS article I wrote.  I refer people to Google, as others have posted it elsewhere.
David Greenburg
'60 Eldorado Seville
'61 Fleetwood Sixty Special

Offline Art Director

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Re: Legal question about the Self Starter
« Reply #3 on: December 20, 2017, 12:31:17 PM »
Gents, I've discussed this with the editor and because it's a legal question, it will have to be responded to by CLC attorneys.
Tim Coy
CLC Southwestern Regions Vice President
Art Director—The Self-Starter, International Membership Directory
Life member—Rocky Mountain Region
CLCMRC Benefactor #102

1963 6329 Six-Window Sedan de Ville
1972 Fleetwood Brougham—RIP
1988 Sedan de Ville—RIP
2001 Eldorado ESC—RIP
2003 DeVille DTS

Offline D.Yaros

  • The Gray Lady, a '55 Coupe de Ville
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  • Name: Dave Yaros
Re: Legal question about the Self Starter
« Reply #4 on: December 20, 2017, 02:45:50 PM »
Could not one be helped by making use of email?
Dave Yaros
CLC #25195
55 Coupe de Ville
92 Allante
62 Olds  

You will find me on the web @:
http://GDYNets.atwebpages.com  -Dave's Den
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http://www.freewebs.com/jeandaveyaros  -Saved 62 (Oldsmobile) Web Site
The home of Car Collector Chronicles.  A  monthly GDYNets newsletter focusing on classic car collecting.
http://www.scribd.com/D_Yaros/

Offline The Tassie Devil(le)

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Re: Legal question about the Self Starter
« Reply #5 on: December 20, 2017, 04:50:00 PM »
If each CLC Member is an actual "owner" of the CLC, by being a registered Member, then wouldn't Members as such be classified as "owners" of the Self Starter, seeing as the Self Starter is owned by the CLC, and therefore not have to comply with the Copyrite provisions.

I would have thought the Copyrite provisions applied to outside interests trying to utilise the contained information.

Thoughts?

Bruce. >:D
'72 Eldorado Convertible (LHD)
'70 Ranchero Squire (RHD)
'74 Chris Craft Gull Wing (SH)
'02 VX Series II Holden Commodore SS Sedan
(Past President Modified Chapter)

Offline gkhashem

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Re: Legal question about the Self Starter
« Reply #6 on: December 20, 2017, 04:56:51 PM »
I think the copyright issue may be you cannot reproduce the article for financial gain.

Although ignorance is not a defense, there are some exceptions to the copyright infringement laws. There is an exception called “fair use,” which is often associated with education. The concept is that if you are using a photo or an article for educational or non-commercial purposes, then you may be exempt from infringement.

So posting it here may be OK.  But we can leave it to the lawyers. If another magazine were copying articles and selling their magazine this would be a no no.
1959 Cadillac Coupe Deville
1964 Oldsmobile 98 Town Sedan
1966 Cadillac Coupe Deville (Senior #861)
1970 GMC C/K 1500
1978 Cadillac Coupe Deville (Senior Crown #959)
1984 Oldsmobile Delta 88 Royal Brougham Coupe
1989 Buick Reatta
1991 Oldsmobile Toronado Trofeo (OCA 1st)
1991 Cadillac Eldorado Biarritz (Senior #838)

Offline V63

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  • Name: W Link
Re: Legal question about the Self Starter
« Reply #7 on: December 21, 2017, 02:25:16 AM »
I was at a Mc-restaurant and noticed it was posted:

Visits limited to 30 min punishable by law.

 The take here is it’s probably only enforced in egregious cases.

Your “question” if it’s legally answered, would probably to the letter of the law.

I would think that should you proceed as you indicated, and your actions rose to the level of legal attention...you would be formally asked to cease (initially), and continued activity after notice ‘could’ be cause for litigation.

Again, certainly many visits to a Mc-restaurant exceed the posted limit...but if you are a problem...you will be asked to leave.



 




Offline Fred Pennington 25635

  • Fred Pennington
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Re: Legal question about the Self Starter
« Reply #8 on: December 21, 2017, 12:24:41 PM »
Greetings, I have been in the awards industry for over 50 years.
We work with these questions daily.
The previous posts are confusing Copyright and Trademark.
Copyrights have nothing to do with whether someone profits or not.

If an item is Copyrighted you can not use any portion of it unless you have permission and in the case of quoting someone giving them credit.

The not so simple answer is the owner of the Copyright is not necessarily the Self Starter.
The author can hold the rights as well as the magazine.
Both entities can claim rights making this a slippery slope.

Copyrights can expire with death and other circumstances.
I am sure the legal eagles can elaborate.

The worst you would probably get is a "Cease and Desist" letter.

Good luck,


Fred Pennington, CLC 25635
1940, LaSalle 5019 x2

Offline 59-in-pieces

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Re: Legal question about the Self Starter
« Reply #9 on: December 21, 2017, 05:14:05 PM »
Have the authors/contributors of the articles and photographs, charts and diagrams signed over the FULL rights of their Work Product to the magazine, with or without consideration.
Failing that, it seems reasonable that the aggrieved party might/would be the author/contributor, and not the magazine - insert CLC Museum..... Calendar.
And as we all may know, the opinion of the CLC attorney is not likely the last word- no disrespect intended.
After all, there are other attorneys who may/for sure have a contrary opinion, and that is why we have Courts.
I know the Court system is not over burdened by frivolous cases, and this is a burning question which needs to be litigated, sooner than later - LOL.
Or, would it be too much or too late to just use common sense.
Have fun,
Steve B.
S. Butcher

Offline Jason Edge

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Re: Legal question about the Self Starter
« Reply #10 on: December 21, 2017, 08:17:04 PM »
The not so simple answer is the owner of the Copyright is not necessarily the Self Starter.
The author can hold the rights as well as the magazine.
Both entities can claim rights making this a slippery slope
I am in no way an expert on copyrights and publishing, however, when I read in the Self-Starter on page 3 that the Self-Starter is published by the Cadillac & LaSalle Club, Inc., and copyrighted by the Cadillac & LaSalle Club, Inc. with all rights reserved; I believe that means the Cadillac & LaSalle Club owns the copyright pure and simple, and it is completely up to their discretion to allow someone to reproduce any part of their published document.
This is why, when I posted the link to the May 1963 Self-Starter article "Two Weeks Behind the Wheel" I had scanned a week or so ago, I indicated I would gladly remove it if it was not appropriate for me to post it. My hope would be that since this is the CLC Forum, it would be OK with approval to post such content, but again if I were asked to remove it I would completely understand as I am not the publisher of the Self-Starter and definitely do not own the Copyright.
Jason Edge
Director CLC 1963-1964 Cadillac Chapter - www.6364Cadillac.com
email - jasonedge@nc.rr.com
1964 Coupe DeVille - http://bit.ly/1WnOQRX
2002 Escalade EXT
2012 SRX Performance Edition

Offline Art Director

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Re: Legal question about the Self Starter
« Reply #11 on: December 29, 2017, 07:50:33 PM »
The CLC attorneys have spoken, and Bob Crimmins, chair of the Publications Committee, has asked me to post the following concerning copyright of The Self-Starter:


There are reasons why we shouldn’t give anyone blanket permission to copy The Self-Starter articles:

First, some articles were written by professional authors, who have agreed that their work may appear in the The Self-Starter, but not necessarily in other places. If these articles appeared elsewhere by permission of the Club, but without consulting the author, we could be in violation of the initial agreement made with the author.

Second, if someone chose to post a portion of an The Self-Starter article, but not the whole article, the statements in the posted portion might be less than accurate if taken out of their original context.

Third, we have invested time and effort in creating an index to The Self-Starter articles, which permits anyone to locate a prior article on a given topic; and we have designated a club member to handle the sales of back issues, to make them available to persons who want to access their content.

Fourth, if anyone can post a The Self-Starter article on a website (which so far as I know has no copyright protection), what’s to stop a third party from republishing the article in another magazine without giving any credit to the The Self-Starter or the original author?
Tim Coy
CLC Southwestern Regions Vice President
Art Director—The Self-Starter, International Membership Directory
Life member—Rocky Mountain Region
CLCMRC Benefactor #102

1963 6329 Six-Window Sedan de Ville
1972 Fleetwood Brougham—RIP
1988 Sedan de Ville—RIP
2001 Eldorado ESC—RIP
2003 DeVille DTS

Offline gkhashem

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Re: Legal question about the Self Starter
« Reply #12 on: December 30, 2017, 03:47:34 PM »
More reason to republish some oldies but goodies. There are not enough old copies of The Self Starter kicking around for many to buy.

Why not start a new feature and reprint some old articles for us to enjoy?

Of course giving full credit to the author and original publish date.
1959 Cadillac Coupe Deville
1964 Oldsmobile 98 Town Sedan
1966 Cadillac Coupe Deville (Senior #861)
1970 GMC C/K 1500
1978 Cadillac Coupe Deville (Senior Crown #959)
1984 Oldsmobile Delta 88 Royal Brougham Coupe
1989 Buick Reatta
1991 Oldsmobile Toronado Trofeo (OCA 1st)
1991 Cadillac Eldorado Biarritz (Senior #838)

Offline David Greenburg

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Re: Legal question about the Self Starter
« Reply #13 on: December 30, 2017, 05:27:36 PM »
George:

That is a great idea.  Perhaps chapters could be allowed to republish specialized articles relevant to their membership (like my pitman arm article, which could be of interest to the '59-'60 Chapter) that might be too narrowly-focused for the general readership.
David Greenburg
'60 Eldorado Seville
'61 Fleetwood Sixty Special

Offline Art Director

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Re: Legal question about the Self Starter
« Reply #14 on: December 30, 2017, 08:44:12 PM »
More reason to republish some oldies but goodies. There are not enough old copies of The Self Starter kicking around for many to buy.

Why not start a new feature and reprint some old articles for us to enjoy?

Of course giving full credit to the author and original publish date.

George, Steve Stewart does not go on this Discussion Forum. You would get better results with your request if you wrote him directly at theself-starter@cadillaclasalleclub.org.

Tim
Tim Coy
CLC Southwestern Regions Vice President
Art Director—The Self-Starter, International Membership Directory
Life member—Rocky Mountain Region
CLCMRC Benefactor #102

1963 6329 Six-Window Sedan de Ville
1972 Fleetwood Brougham—RIP
1988 Sedan de Ville—RIP
2001 Eldorado ESC—RIP
2003 DeVille DTS

 

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