Author Topic: Darkest before the dawn.  (Read 1063 times)

Offline Big Apple Caddy

  • Posts: 700
  • Name: R. Langley
Re: Darkest before the dawn.
« Reply #20 on: January 02, 2018, 09:34:59 PM »
I don't know how many people have seen this, but it has been reported that Lincoln is planning to drop the numbers and letters and return to names for its models. Continental is the first of the names to go into place, but others are supposedly going to follow.

This sort of came up in another topic here.  My question related to this was whether Lincoln was doing so because they felt the brand wasn't competing successfully enough at the luxury level and decided to essentially go down to more Buick level where real model names are common.  Despite Lincoln bringing back their iconic Continental name sales for that model haven't been great but this may be more because large sedans just don't sell like they used to.

As new or redesigned models are introduced, Lincoln is expected to go with real model names like Aviator, Nautilus, Zephyr, etc.

Online The Tassie Devil(le)

  • Administrator
  • Posts: 7615
    • CLC Member
      CLC Member #18992
  • Name: Bruce Reynolds
Re: Darkest before the dawn.
« Reply #21 on: January 02, 2018, 09:47:54 PM »
..... I personally enjoy the backup camera, the paring of my cell phone to my car, all the safety features offered.  I just read that the new Cadillacs have a sensor/camera built into the steering wheel, that will detect when the driver takes his/her eyes off the road.
The Back-up Cameras are there for the simple reason that the shape of the current cars is that one can physically not see anything when turning the head around to see to enable reversing and parking.

The anti-drowsing sensors are there simply because the modern cars are so quiet, draft-free and so comfortable, like a lounge room, that drivers simply fall asleep.

Take a drive in a '59 or '60 Cadillac, and when turning the head, the rearward and side visibility is tremendous, and the noise emitted by the engine, and the roadway is sufficient to keep everyone awake.   Plus, it is a pleasure to stay awake by taking in the ambiance of the scenery, and the simple pleasure of being alive.

Bruce. >:D

PS.   We, as Cadillac and LaSalle people, shouldn't really care about the inferior makers, or we would be members of those clubs.  (Which some of you could well be)  I don't care much for Lexus, Lincoln or Mercedes, unless I see parts within them that I can use in my own cars.   My '70 Ranchero is fitted with Lincoln Continental MK IV Bucket Seats, and boy, are they comfortable.
'72 Eldorado Convertible (LHD)
'70 Ranchero Squire (RHD)
'74 Chris Craft Gull Wing (SH)
'02 VX Series II Holden Commodore SS Sedan
(Past President Modified Chapter)

Offline Jeff Rose CLC #28373

  • Posts: 1468
  • Name: Jeff Rose
Re: Darkest before the dawn.
« Reply #22 on: January 02, 2018, 09:50:20 PM »
One thing that I think about is how easy it is to get a Cadillac. You don't have to work for it-just get a $250/month lease and you have one. A few years ago a Cadillac dealer by me had a huge sign up that's said "Credit Help Here."
If it's something that anyone can get, what is special about it? Any car can have technology.
Problem is that if it is hard to get then yoi don't sell enough of them to stay in business. Catch 22.
My daily driver is an 8 year old Honda. They run forever  (I hope) and hold their value.
Jeff
Oh yah, I forgot to say that I am also boring.
« Last Edit: January 02, 2018, 09:55:50 PM by Jeff Rose CLC #28373 »
Jeff
CLC #28373
1970 Coupe DeVille
1955 Series 62

Online cadillacmike68

  • Posts: 1312
  • Still finishing up this 1968
    • CLC Member
      CLC Member #15823
  • Name: M Santos
Re: Darkest before the dawn.
« Reply #23 on: January 02, 2018, 09:56:48 PM »
The biggest problem is that all cars will one day become a product of market demand.

And when that happens, it could possibly be that the Cadillac & LaSalle Club, this, our club, will still flourish, as people will want to get back to enjoying transportation with class.

We cannot complain about new cars, and the way they are built, as the Club, actually doesn't recognise Cadillacs until they are Ten Years Old.   Yes, some complain about new cars, but these people have an agenda which involves being able to buy a nicer Cadillac once it is at least Ten Years Old.

Down here in Australia, Vintage cars aren't recognised until they are at least 30 years old.   Newer cars are called "Special Interest".

The way for the car makers to steady things down is to only make vehicles when they get actual Signed Orders in to make them, and people should be prepared to wait for their car to be built.   Remember the "good old days".

No good comes of forcing targets for sellers to reach, and having huge areas filled with unliked vehicles, that eventually will get crushed.   What a waste of resources.

And oh, yes, it is always the darkest before the dawn.

Bruce. >:D

Is that down in Oz or everywhere, because I Never heard of that restriction, and I see very recent cars listed in the directory every year including my two newer ones.

What I'm still waiting for, but not holding my breath for, are

A: a V8 equipped car - not a Suburban Uhttack Vehicle
and
B: a convertible that hods 4 or 5 adult passengers.




« Last Edit: January 02, 2018, 10:03:16 PM by cadillacmike68 »
Regards,
"Cadillac" Mike
Current:
1968 DeVille Convertible
1996 Fleetwood Brougham
2009 STS NorthStar Platinum ed RWD
2011 CTS PRemiun ed Sedan RWD
Past:
2008 CTS Premium ed Sedan AWD
2005 CTS Hi-Feature Sedan RWD
2000 ElDorado ESC Hard Boot Convertible
1995 Fleetwood Brougham
1973 Sedan DeVille
1970 Fleetwood Brougham
1969 DeVille Convertible

Online The Tassie Devil(le)

  • Administrator
  • Posts: 7615
    • CLC Member
      CLC Member #18992
  • Name: Bruce Reynolds
Re: Darkest before the dawn.
« Reply #24 on: January 02, 2018, 10:15:27 PM »
G'day Mike,

I thought the 10 years old was simply because of a couple of things.

The Self Starter doesn't print For Sale adverts for vehicles newer that 10 years old.

Plus, The Show Judging doesn't have classes for vehicles newer than 10 years old.

From the International Membership Directory.

Article 1 (Name and Purpose) Section 3 Recognition.  States The Club recognises all Cadillacs and LaSalles, regardless of year or model.

Jugding - Divisions - Primary - is for Cadillac and LaSalle automobiles manufactured as 1999 models and older and/or which are 20 years old and older......

Touring Division -  is for Cadillac and LaSalle automobiles 10 years old and older.....

Bruce. >:D

'72 Eldorado Convertible (LHD)
'70 Ranchero Squire (RHD)
'74 Chris Craft Gull Wing (SH)
'02 VX Series II Holden Commodore SS Sedan
(Past President Modified Chapter)

Offline kkkaiser

  • Posts: 135
    • CLC Member
      CLC Member #30660
  • Name: Kaiser
Re: Darkest before the dawn.
« Reply #25 on: January 02, 2018, 10:15:39 PM »
can you imagine a 60 's sized something  cadillac with all the bells whistles tvs, etc that populate the current cars.. and actual have leg room, wiggle room, and some one saying, thats a cadillac,, and not wonder if its one of the many cars that look identical, regardless of price,,, would be something imo

Offline e.mason

  • Posts: 125
  • Name: Eric Mason
Re: Darkest before the dawn.
« Reply #26 on: January 02, 2018, 10:23:11 PM »
The Back-up Cameras are there for the simple reason that the shape of the current cars is that one can physically not see anything when turning the head around to see to enable reversing and parking.

The anti-drowsing sensors are there simply because the modern cars are so quiet, draft-free and so comfortable, like a lounge room, that drivers simply fall asleep.

Take a drive in a '59 or '60 Cadillac, and when turning the head, the rearward and side visibility is tremendous, and the noise emitted by the engine, and the roadway is sufficient to keep everyone awake.   Plus, it is a pleasure to stay awake by taking in the ambiance of the scenery, and the simple pleasure of being alive.

Bruce. >:D

PS.   We, as Cadillac and LaSalle people, shouldn't really care about the inferior makers, or we would be members of those clubs.  (Which some of you could well be)  I don't care much for Lexus, Lincoln or Mercedes, unless I see parts within them that I can use in my own cars.   My '70 Ranchero is fitted with Lincoln Continental MK IV Bucket Seats, and boy, are they comfortable.

With all due respect, I think you are missing the point of all these safety features being available through the use of technology. 

#Here in the USA the rear cameras are going to have to be a standard feature on cars in the very near future.  They allow drivers to see things that would not be in their normal range of viewing i.e. small children, bicycles in the driveway etc.

#The sensors in the steering wheel are not for anti drowsing.  Mostly for people that take their eyes off road for texting, applying makeup, reading etc.  I also love the warning radar on cars, especially when wanting to change lanes when a car is in my blind spot.  All these safety features allows us the pleasure of staying alive longer.

#Hasn't Cadillac and other makes always taunted how comfortable and quiet their cars are?  Wasn't this part of having a luxury car?

Offline e.mason

  • Posts: 125
  • Name: Eric Mason
Re: Darkest before the dawn.
« Reply #27 on: January 02, 2018, 10:24:34 PM »
One thing that I think about is how easy it is to get a Cadillac. You don't have to work for it-just get a $250/month lease and you have one. A few years ago a Cadillac dealer by me had a huge sign up that's said "Credit Help Here."
If it's something that anyone can get, what is special about it? Any car can have technology.
Problem is that if it is hard to get then yoi don't sell enough of them to stay in business. Catch 22.
My daily driver is an 8 year old Honda. They run forever  (I hope) and hold their value.
Jeff
Oh yah, I forgot to say that I am also boring.

Easy to get a Cadillac?  $250/month lease?  Please show me where.

Online The Tassie Devil(le)

  • Administrator
  • Posts: 7615
    • CLC Member
      CLC Member #18992
  • Name: Bruce Reynolds
Re: Darkest before the dawn.
« Reply #28 on: January 02, 2018, 11:10:14 PM »
With all due respect, I think you are missing the point of all these safety features being available through the use of technology.   
With all due respect, the use of modern technology has come about due to the fact that the majority of crashes and fatalities are caused by stupid drivers.   Not being able to see is a direct result of cars being made "safer".

I rented a Toyota Rav 4 a couple of years ago, and even though I was a trained high-performance driver, and dragster driver, I couldn't see a damned thing out of the back of it when I was attempting to park it.   Everything got in the way of my sight.   High Tail Gate, high sides, head restraints, B and C Pillars, and even the rear vision mirror was marginal at best.   Got better rear vision from the outside mirrors.

Bruce. >:D
'72 Eldorado Convertible (LHD)
'70 Ranchero Squire (RHD)
'74 Chris Craft Gull Wing (SH)
'02 VX Series II Holden Commodore SS Sedan
(Past President Modified Chapter)

Offline Cape Cod Fleetwood

  • Posts: 125
  • Name: Laurie Kraynick
Re: Darkest before the dawn.
« Reply #29 on: January 03, 2018, 12:11:20 AM »
I just read that the new Cadillacs have a sensor/camera built into the steering wheel, that will detect when the driver takes his/her eyes off the road.

GREAT! Another weapon the insurance companies can use against you after an accident. Has anyone else nuked their "black box"?
There are 2 kinds of cars in the world, Cadillac and everything else....

The Present -1970 Fleetwood Brougham

The Past -
1996 Deville Concours
1987 Sedan De Ville "Commonwealth Edition"
1981 Coupe De Ville (8-6-4)
1976 Sedan De Ville
1975 Sedan De Ville

The Daily Driver and work slave -
2008 GMC Acadia SLT *options/all

Offline Cape Cod Fleetwood

  • Posts: 125
  • Name: Laurie Kraynick
Re: Darkest before the dawn.
« Reply #30 on: January 03, 2018, 12:26:13 AM »
And another thing.... (c'mon, you've all heard your wives say that when you thought the fight was over)

Allow me to interject a bit of ribaldry here - there are 3 generations of drivers out there now who have never owned/driven a car with a back seat big enough to -  >:D

And if they tried and were taller than jockey's they'd be in physical therapy for a year.

Cadillac bring back a 'boat', a 'land yacht' for the masses. Stuff a GMC Sierra engine it, run it up the flag pole and watch everyone salute. No it won't get 50mpg, we can afford gas now, we have the American supply again and the economy can support it. 19' long, 8' wide, no back up cameras or radar, it would have sonar. Get busy GM. Laurie!
There are 2 kinds of cars in the world, Cadillac and everything else....

The Present -1970 Fleetwood Brougham

The Past -
1996 Deville Concours
1987 Sedan De Ville "Commonwealth Edition"
1981 Coupe De Ville (8-6-4)
1976 Sedan De Ville
1975 Sedan De Ville

The Daily Driver and work slave -
2008 GMC Acadia SLT *options/all

Offline e.mason

  • Posts: 125
  • Name: Eric Mason
Re: Darkest before the dawn.
« Reply #31 on: January 03, 2018, 08:08:50 AM »
I can't believe what I am reading about the negativity towards regulations dealing with safety!  I take you back to the days before regulation, a time when cool guys used to add their own safety devices.  Remember curb feelers?  How about the stand up guides you used to add to your headlights to assist you in parking.  How much rear visibly did we have with the small private windows in our convertibles?  How about seat belts and air bags.  I am old school and hardly ever used my seat belt...................until.  I witnessed an accident where a older Mustang, 67 I believe, T-boned a newer Chrysler.  The driver of the Chrysler had on his seat belt and the air bag deployed.  He got out and assisted the other driver who had to be Medevaced to the hospital!  Made a believer out of me.  I have never felt safer, then when in the SUV's I have owned.  Extra large rearview mirrors, and glass all around, virtually eliminating any blind stops.  Sitting higher and being able to have a better view of the traffic situation all around me.

Yes, many accidents are caused by drivers doing stupid things.  Not paying attention, texting etc.  Don't you feel it is better if they have options on their cars that would make them, just a little bit smarter?

Offline Big Apple Caddy

  • Posts: 700
  • Name: R. Langley
Re: Darkest before the dawn.
« Reply #32 on: January 03, 2018, 08:10:53 AM »
The Back-up Cameras are there for the simple reason that the shape of the current cars is that one can physically not see anything when turning the head around to see to enable reversing and parking.

A reason backup cameras exist is because the technology has become cheap enough to do so.  The concept for backup cameras in cars was created back in the 1950s, if not before.  Lots of things would've existed long ago if the engineering, technology, etc had existed in a cost effective manner to do so.  Things often become reality because they finally can and not because some new or urgent need has been created.  "Needs" can exist a long time before a "solution" becomes a reality.

Offline Big Apple Caddy

  • Posts: 700
  • Name: R. Langley
Re: Darkest before the dawn.
« Reply #33 on: January 03, 2018, 08:14:20 AM »
can you imagine a 60 's sized something  cadillac with all the bells whistles tvs, etc that populate the current cars.. and actual have leg room, wiggle room, and some one saying, thats a cadillac,, and not wonder if its one of the many cars that look identical, regardless of price,,, would be something imo

1960s Cadillacs while large on the outside weren't necessarily large on the inside at least not when It came to things like leg room and head room compared to even smaller (exterior) modern cars.  Also, people were complaining about cars looking alike in the 1960s as well as before and since.

Offline e.mason

  • Posts: 125
  • Name: Eric Mason
Re: Darkest before the dawn.
« Reply #34 on: January 03, 2018, 08:22:04 AM »
A reason backup cameras exist is because the technology has become cheap enough to do so.  The concept for backup cameras in cars was created back in the 1950s, if not before.  Lots of things would've existed long ago if the engineering, technology, etc had existed in a cost effective manner to do so.  Things often become reality because they finally can and not because some new or urgent need has been created.  "Needs" can exist a long time before a "solution" becomes a reality.

I remember, as a kid, many years ago in the 50's, being at a GM exhibit.  One thing that stands out in my mind, was a exhibit showing a car of the future.  It had radar and could be driver less!  Like it or not, the future is here.  It's what is called progress.  Sure we can all, in our minds, live in the past.  We can drive our classic Cadillacs and remember how it used to be.  Eventually we have to park the pride and joy and return to reality and the present day.

Offline Dan LeBlanc

  • Administrator
  • Posts: 3607
    • CLC Member
      CLC Member #27657
  • Name: Dan LeBlanc
Re: Darkest before the dawn.
« Reply #35 on: January 03, 2018, 08:41:04 AM »
This sort of came up in another topic here.  My question related to this was whether Lincoln was doing so because they felt the brand wasn't competing successfully enough at the luxury level and decided to essentially go down to more Buick level where real model names are common.  Despite Lincoln bringing back their iconic Continental name sales for that model haven't been great but this may be more because large sedans just don't sell like they used to.

As new or redesigned models are introduced, Lincoln is expected to go with real model names like Aviator, Nautilus, Zephyr, etc.

I read an article not long ago and I wish I would've saved it to back up what I'm about to say.

The Lincoln Continental is doing exactly what FoMoCo had hoped . . . it is driving traffic into their showrooms and helping sales on other, less expensive models like the MKX and MKZ.

Just for comparison sake, I priced out 2 top end cars yesterday online.  A CT6 and a Continental.  Here in Canada, with every option box ticked off on the highest model, the CT6 came out at $108,000 while the Continental came out at $85,700.  That's quite a difference.

I believe it was Motor Trend that also named the Continental the most satisfying new car to own - satisfaction ratings are through the roof on it, reliability is up there.  From what I've been reading, the CT6 hasn't been so fortunate. 

Not that I'm following this stuff as much as I used to.  All I can say is that if I lived somewhere where there was no snow and salt, I wouldn't drive anything newer than 1979 if I could.
Dan LeBlanc - CLC # 27657
1970 DeVille Convertible
1977 Continental Town Car

Offline D.Smith

  • Posts: 470
  • 1961 Sedan deVille
    • CLC Member
      CLC Member #17592
  • Name: Dave Smith
Re: Darkest before the dawn.
« Reply #36 on: January 03, 2018, 08:56:23 AM »
Its just a shame the new Continental looks like a Toyota Avalon from the rear.     Lincoln has been having an identity crisis ever since they dropped the Town Car. 

People on this board for years have been saying Cadillac needed a six figure Flagship to compete with Mercedes.  Well now they have one.  You need to compare apples to apples.    The Continental was made specifically for the market in China where they have no idea what a Lincoln should look like.

Cadillac at least has a continuity of styling.    Now if they could just make an engine that will last 10-15 years without blowing head gaskets or leaking oil like the Exxon Valdez.

Offline Steve Passmore

  • Posts: 5082
  • Name: Steve Passmore
Re: Darkest before the dawn.
« Reply #37 on: January 03, 2018, 10:03:04 AM »
   

No one knows what numbers and letters mean.  It's not like Cadillac has a 75-year history of the alpha-numerical manner of car naming like the Germans and Lexus
quote. 

Whilst I prefer names as opposed to numbers  Cadillac actually does have a long history of numbering their carsAll the 30s were numbered 50 through 90 series sadly.
Steve

Offline Big Apple Caddy

  • Posts: 700
  • Name: R. Langley
Re: Darkest before the dawn.
« Reply #38 on: January 03, 2018, 11:14:26 AM »
The Lincoln Continental is doing exactly what FoMoCo had hoped . . . it is driving traffic into their showrooms and helping sales on other, less expensive models like the MKX and MKZ.

While higher end cars in an automaker's lineup may always to some degree be considered "halo" vehicles, if the Continental's goal was to drive up sales of Lincoln's less expensive models like MKZ and MKX it doesn't appear to be doing a very good job.  MKZ sales for the year in the U.S. were down 10% and MKX sales were basically flat.  Meanwhile, Continental itself only managed U.S. sales of a little over 12,000 units for the year.  12,000 isn't great when you consider that when FoMoCo officially announced in early 2002 that they were discontinuation the Continental, its sales in 2001 while down had still been over 20,000 units.  The new Continental seems like a very nice car but I feel that the bigger issue is that large sedans just don't sell like they used and may never sell well again especially if this crossover/SUV craze continues.  At least Ford does have the China market to sell Continental, and other models, these days which is a plus.  Maybe a shift to more electric cars will change and improve attitudes toward large sedans.  I just don't know.

Offline e.mason

  • Posts: 125
  • Name: Eric Mason
Re: Darkest before the dawn.
« Reply #39 on: January 03, 2018, 01:46:46 PM »
The new Continental seems like a very nice car but I feel that the bigger issue is that large sedans just don't sell like they used and may never sell well again especially if this crossover/SUV craze continues.  At least Ford does have the China market to sell Continental, and other models, these days which is a plus.  Maybe a shift to more electric cars will change and improve attitudes toward large sedans.  I just don't know.

Crossover/SUV craze?  I suggest that SUV's, Crossovers, Trucks etc. are not just a craze.  I think they are just part of the evolution of the automobile.  SUV's and Crossovers, are really nothing more then the station wagons are years gone by.  They are just more stylish and versatile.  Nothing better then a SUV to go shopping at the local warehouse store, and have enough room to bring home the 55 gallon drum of mustard.  Crossovers derived their name because of them being a cross between a sedan, SUV and a van.  If you want room and comfort.  Jump aboard a full size pickup.

 

Get the CLCMRC 2018 Calendar - AVAILABLE NOW!