Author Topic: Darkest before the dawn.  (Read 1067 times)

Offline The Tassie Devil(le)

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Re: Darkest before the dawn.
« Reply #60 on: January 04, 2018, 02:51:21 PM »
The modern SUV's came about to the cheapness to build, simply because they didn't have to meet the stringent requirements of passenger carrying vehicles, which were 2 wheel drive.

Sumary came into Australia in droves simply because there was a lower taffif for 4 Wheel Drive Vehicles, and once people found out how comfortable they were, and really cheap, they were hooked.

By the time the Government finally realised what Subaru were doing, it was too late, then everyone came on board.

Subary never made a totally 2 wheel drive vehicle.
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Offline Jeff Maltby 4194

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Re: Darkest before the dawn.
« Reply #61 on: January 04, 2018, 03:01:51 PM »
The good old days :<)
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Offline Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621

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Re: Darkest before the dawn.
« Reply #62 on: January 04, 2018, 03:12:19 PM »
Subary never made a totally 2 wheel drive vehicle.

There were many FWD Subaru cars. (Not 4WD or AWD).
A Cadillac Motorcar is a Possession for Which There is no Acceptable Substitute

Offline Cape Cod Fleetwood

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Re: Darkest before the dawn.
« Reply #63 on: January 04, 2018, 10:32:41 PM »
I wonder what today's new car prices would have been if GM had to scratch for itself without the benefit of multibillion dollar bailout.  ???

*BOOM*  <mic drop>
There are 2 kinds of cars in the world, Cadillac and everything else....

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Offline Big Apple Caddy

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Re: Darkest before the dawn.
« Reply #64 on: January 05, 2018, 07:40:42 AM »
I wonder what today's new car prices would have been if GM had to scratch for itself without the benefit of multibillion dollar bailout.

Tough to say but prices had been dropping in the market, far beyond just GM, before their bailout and the company would've wanted to try to remain price competitive going forward with or without bailout monies.

Offline Big Apple Caddy

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Re: Darkest before the dawn.
« Reply #65 on: January 05, 2018, 07:43:15 AM »
The modern SUV's came about to the cheapness to build, simply because they didn't have to meet the stringent requirements of passenger carrying vehicles, which were 2 wheel drive.

I don't quite get the specific 2 wheel drive versus 4 wheel drive relevancy as both SUVs and cars can be either 2 wheel drive or 4 wheel drive.  Also, as Eric mentioned, Subaru has made 2 wheel drive vehicles.

Offline e.mason

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Re: Darkest before the dawn.
« Reply #66 on: January 05, 2018, 09:47:59 AM »
I have a question -

When a lot of people talk about Cadillac, and talk about the sedans, they are talking about I suppose the 50s and 60s. 

What about the pre-war cars and design language?  They had several different designs, some termed sedan, some phaeton - I have never been exactly clear on it all, but I always thought a sedan had a trunk, with the rear window positioned in front and above the trunk - but those 30s cars, dare I say it, you could design one with a tailgate like a crossover.  I don't know if they could incorporate cues from that era, given the radical differences in so much, including safety requirements, but I do wonder from time to time if a crossover that wasn't built like crap (like a pt cruiser), but that was graceful and had ample odes to the 30s cars would be a exciting direction,. 

How far is this car really, body wise, from a crossover?  http://www.happycarz.com/showroom/1934-cadillac-series-20-model-355-d-four-door-sedan/  Yeah ground clearance is less, but most people buying crossovers aren't really in it for 4wd anyway, they are using them as station-wagons - something the 50s and 60s had plenty of.

As I posted before.  Crossover, as defined by Buick, when they were introducing their Rendezvous, had the feeling and conveniences  of a sedan, van and a SUV.  There is no denying that today's SUV's and crossovers are really nothing more then updated station wagons.  Consumes have given up going for styling and looked for vehicles that were more practical.  By the way, we had two Rendezvous and loved them.  Probably would still have one, except for the fact they stopped making them.

Offline cadillacmike68

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Re: Darkest before the dawn.
« Reply #67 on: January 07, 2018, 11:37:49 AM »
There's more to it than that. Punitive CAFE regulations played a significant role in effectively legislating full size cars out of existence while encouraging truck & truck-based vehicles to flourish because EPA regulations are different depending on how vehicles are classified.

This is exactly correct, and its why mfrs can make a significantly higher profit on the suburban uhttack vehicles as well. 

They don't have the same fuel economy requirements, because they are not "passenger cars"   ???

When is the epa going to correct its self inflicted case of cranial rectal inversion or what we in the Airborne community refer to has heaving one's head up their 4th point of contact?  >:D
Regards,
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Current:
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2009 STS NorthStar Platinum ed RWD
2011 CTS PRemiun ed Sedan RWD
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Offline e.mason

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Re: Darkest before the dawn.
« Reply #68 on: January 07, 2018, 12:55:50 PM »
This is exactly correct, and its why mfrs can make a significantly higher profit on the suburban uhttack vehicles as well. 

They don't have the same fuel economy requirements, because they are not "passenger cars"   ???

When is the epa going to correct its self inflicted case of cranial rectal inversion or what we in the Airborne community refer to has heaving one's head up their 4th point of contact?  >:D

Yes the profits are higher with "trucks".  On the flip side.  Have you noticed the discounts on new Chevy trucks?  The discounts are more then the cost of a new Cadillac of the 70's!  Many of the newer mid size SUV's and Crossovers over fantastic fuel mileage.  2018 Buick Envision/MPG
Up to 22 city / 29 highway

Offline cadillacmike68

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Re: Darkest before the dawn.
« Reply #69 on: January 07, 2018, 01:24:52 PM »
Yes the profits are higher with "trucks".  On the flip side.  Have you noticed the discounts on new Chevy trucks?  The discounts are more then the cost of a new Cadillac of the 70's!  Many of the newer mid size SUV's and Crossovers over fantastic fuel mileage.  2018 Buick Envision/MPG
Up to 22 city / 29 highway

But it's still not as high as the requirements for "cars"...
Regards,
"Cadillac" Mike
Current:
1968 DeVille Convertible
1996 Fleetwood Brougham
2009 STS NorthStar Platinum ed RWD
2011 CTS PRemiun ed Sedan RWD
Past:
2008 CTS Premium ed Sedan AWD
2005 CTS Hi-Feature Sedan RWD
2000 ElDorado ESC Hard Boot Convertible
1995 Fleetwood Brougham
1973 Sedan DeVille
1970 Fleetwood Brougham
1969 DeVille Convertible

Offline e.mason

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  • Name: Eric Mason
Re: Darkest before the dawn.
« Reply #70 on: January 07, 2018, 01:32:08 PM »

Offline cadillacmike68

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Re: Darkest before the dawn.
« Reply #71 on: January 10, 2018, 09:45:05 PM »
Worst on that chart is escalade. xt5 is worse than some of the sedans, better than a few, but that's the cars themselves, NOT the fed REQUIREMENTS.
Regards,
"Cadillac" Mike
Current:
1968 DeVille Convertible
1996 Fleetwood Brougham
2009 STS NorthStar Platinum ed RWD
2011 CTS PRemiun ed Sedan RWD
Past:
2008 CTS Premium ed Sedan AWD
2005 CTS Hi-Feature Sedan RWD
2000 ElDorado ESC Hard Boot Convertible
1995 Fleetwood Brougham
1973 Sedan DeVille
1970 Fleetwood Brougham
1969 DeVille Convertible

Offline e.mason

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  • Name: Eric Mason
Re: Darkest before the dawn.
« Reply #72 on: January 11, 2018, 08:46:14 AM »
Worst on that chart is escalade. xt5 is worse than some of the sedans, better than a few, but that's the cars themselves, NOT the fed REQUIREMENTS.

Maybe this will help.  For many car experts, the difference between the two is simple: A crossover is based on a car's platform, while an SUV uses the chassis of a truck. The result is that crossovers use "unibody" architecture, meaning the body and frame are one piece, while SUVs use a "body on frame" design.

 

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