1959 Automatic Transmission Fluid

[gkhashem]

I was looking at a 1959 and the transmission fluid looked amber. It did not seem burnt anyone know when the ATF was a color other than red or pink?

I am wondering if I am looking at 58 year old fluid that is just old.

[The Tassie Devil(le)]

As far as I am aware, all ATF is tinted a reddish colour.

This gives it a instant "signature" that it isn't normal engine oil.

The only way you will be able to check what is in yours is to have it analysed by a chemist.

Discolouration could be caused by a multiple of things, like a performance enhancer or a stop-leak fluid being added over the years.

Or even coolant entering the system via a leaking internal radiator cooler.

One has to remember that these cars, and every other car built isn't designed to be in service for such a long period as we collectors, and the people that cannot afford to buy new cars, keep them.

Bruce.

[wbdeford]

Amber was the normal color at one time.  You probably have very old fluid, and it likely contains whale oil.

[TJ Hopland]

I think I read that the red color didn't really catch on as a standard till into the 70's.   I remember when I was poorer than I am now and my only car leaked and burned every fluid badly I found I could buy auto fluids at garage sales really cheap.  I do remember running across clear ATF.  I don't recall the brands and I think it was in those cardboard cans with the metal tops like I remember oil coming in before they went to the plastic bottles in the late 70's early 80s.

I think one of the 'high end premium' lube brands has an amber ATF.   I have also heard of people that use various hydraulic fluids and most of those start out clear.  I bought a car from a farmer and he told me he had a 55 gallon drums of something for his John Deere in the barn and that was what was in the trans and ps.   It worked fine till it got really well below zero F and then it wouldn't shift out of 1st.   

   

[76eldo]

Now we will hear on the subject of leaving the old fluid as it is or doing a flush and using modern fluid.

Continue...


Brian

[Bobby B]

I was looking at a 1959 and the transmission fluid looked amber. It did not seem burnt anyone know when the ATF was a color other than red or pink?

It might have been the original Type "A" fluid, which is a golden brown in color. Every early Hydra-Matic I've opened had this color fluid.
                                                                                                                                                                              Bobby

[TJ Hopland]

Is that something you would loose points on if being judged?   If so maybe its 'a thing' to put correct looking fluid in?

[35-709]

   I have never seen a judge pull the transmission dipstick to check the color of the trans. fluid at a CLC GN or any other AACA show.  But now you've done it and planted the idea! 

[gkhashem]

I am asking as to determine if I have any issues.

The car appears to have been used very little recently, it did not seem burnt.

So I was trying to determine if it was old  from the guys who know.

BTW Brian I do not flush stuff I just drain and fill and do it twice if I need to. Flushing on something this old will probably cause a leak for sure. But we will stay away from that. 

[35-709]

No one here can diagnose your transmission just by the color of what may be the original trans. fluid sitting in their computer chair, Mr. Hashem.  If it were mine I would change out the fluid, twice.

[The Tassie Devil(le)]

after the trans had been warmed up as well.

Bruce.

[savemy67]

Hello George,

Attached is a photo comparing the transmission fluid that came out of my 1967 TH400, and some new fluid.  The car has 90,000 miles on it and it is reasonable to assume that the transmission had some sort of service (fluid, filter, ?) in the intervening 50 years.

As others have indicated, there are a number of things that can contribute to the color of the fluid, so you may want to piece together the history of the car - number of owners, mileage, location, service receipts, etc. - as well as observing how the transmission shifts.  Just because the fluid doesn't smell burnt, there could be other internal conditions that may affect the transmission sooner or later (worn out lip seals and or friction plates, etc.).

Draining the fluid from the pan only will leave a large amount of fluid in the fluid coupling, so drain the coupling if you can.  The pump in the transmission generates at least 80 psi, so a flushing machine that uses less pressure is less likely to cause a leak than the transmission pump itself.

Respectfully submitted,
Christopher Winter

[gkhashem]

No one here can diagnose your transmission just by the color of what may be the original trans. fluid sitting in their computer chair, Mr. Hashem.  If it were mine I would change out the fluid, twice.

Well Mr Newcombe it is not my transmission, it is a car i am looking at to purchase. I drove the car it shifted fine and the fluid did not smell bad.

The question was about the amber color of the fluid. I had never seen a non red ATF in a GM car before.

Also I have 9 cars and I always change all fluids and filters when I buy a car. (this car has no filter) I drop the pan and change the gasket and look for debris in the pan. Since I do not own the car you have to look at something or do you from your chair have a better idea?

[gkhashem]

Chris

I have a photo it looked more amber than just old. No trace of red.

This was my original question. Was the older ATF a diiferent color.

I think a prior poster may be correct on this.

[wbdeford]

Is that something you would loose points on if being judged?   If so maybe its 'a thing' to put correct looking fluid in?

If they did that for not having whale oil in your transmission, they'd also have to take away points for no asbestos in on your brake shoes.

[35-709]

"Since I do not own the car you have to look at something or do you from your chair have a better idea?"

  Oh yes, indeed I do.

[gkhashem]

"Since I do not own the car you have to look at something or do you from your chair have a better idea?"

  Oh yes, indeed I do.

Thank you for sharing your knowledge.....

While a test drive does not tell all, the car shifted smoothly from 1st to 2nd to 3rd  to 4th so the chances are the fluid is just old. But since I do not know it all, I was soliciting some knowledge from some kind people who do.

Always nice to learn from others with experience and to share my experience with those who ask.

Thank you to all who helped out there. I appreciate the input.

No matter I just bought the car a 1959 all original. (and thanks to my CLC friends out there who know what car I was looking at with your advice on the car)

This was a car not advertised and I saw it 18 months ago while looking at another car. I finally beat the dealers to a car. Seller is happy and I am too.

[Jon S]

If they did that for not having whale oil in your transmission, they'd also have to take away points for no asbestos in on your brake shoes.

Very good point!  Getting back to the original question, Type A transmission fluid (with whale oil) was introduced in the mid-1950's and was an almost clear fluid. It was upgraded to Type A Suffix A in the early 1960's. Not sure if Suffix A added the red dye to distinguish it from motor oil or if it was Dexron that first introduced the red dye. Anyway, it appears George's newly purchased car had Type A fluid and it looks pretty good for 59 year old fluid.

George - Good luck with your 1959!

[wbdeford]

While a test drive does not tell all, the car shifted smoothly from 1st to 2nd to 3rd so the chances are the fluid is just old. But since I do not know it all, I was soliciting some knowledge from some kind people who do.

It's a 4 speed transmission.....