Author Topic: 1969 Deville Distributor Installation Issue  (Read 185 times)

Offline DMirrione

  • Posts: 45
  • Name: D Mirrione
1969 Deville Distributor Installation Issue
« on: January 06, 2018, 12:15:55 PM »
Hello friends,

Yesterday, I received a replacement thermal vacuum switch which required the removal of the distributor to access. Well, I thought I had done a good enough job marking the distributor but I didn't. When I reinstalled it, it ran, but I heard a ticking noise that sounded like the distributor needed some grease (for lack of better words). When I reinstalled it again, I didn't have it seated all the way down, but thought I had. So I installed the hold down clamp and started it and the oil light came on due to it not being seated. I reseated it and it started, but gave a "poof" sound through the carb.

So I removed it and started with the procedure in the shop manual for installing the distributor after the engine has been cranked since the last time the distributor was installed. Here are the steps I have followed.

-Removed the ignition coil wire
-Removed distributor
-Removed Spark Plug #1 (front passenger side)
-Stuck a waded up piece of paper towel, but not too deep, into spark plug #1's hole (I'm by myself) (Trying to be on the compression stroke)
-Bumped the starter until the paper towel popped out. When I do this, I am about 7-10 degrees before the 0 degree mark
-Bumped the starter to align timing mark with 0 degrees
-Aligned dist. shaft with oil pump shaft to bring the rotor  cap as close to the #1 plug on the dist. cap
-Dropped in distributor
-Secured hold down clamp
-Ensured spark plug wire order
-Reinstalled spark plug #1 and wire
-Reconnect ignition coil wire
-Attempt to start

When I try to start it, I am getting a burst of gas mist from the carb. Also, the choke pull off is not engaging so the choke is fully closed which I propped slightly open since I figured the engine has no vacuum to engage the pull off. With my limited experience (first time with a distributor) and what I have read, it sounds like I am on the exhaust stroke.

Any advice at this point would be greatly appreciated. The thermal vacuum switch, which is why I am in this mess, was the last part I needed for my daily driver level restoration. The car has been running great before this with no issues at all. This was literally the last part I needed....for now of course.

Thanks all,
Dave
1969 Cadillac Deville Convertible
1978 Lincoln Mark V
1969 Ford Galaxie

Online 35-709

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Re: 1969 Deville Distributor Installation Issue
« Reply #1 on: January 06, 2018, 01:13:23 PM »
"-Aligned dist. shaft with oil pump shaft to bring the rotor cap as close to the #1 plug on the dist. cap"

2 things ---
1.  You may have to turn the oil pump itself with a long, large flat screwdriver, or the like, to line up with the distributor shaft.
2.  When you line up the rotor to #1, remember and notice that the rotor (and shaft) is going to turn as you slide the distributor down and it engages the beveled gear.  What you must do is turn the rotor prior to inserting the distr. so that the rotor lines up with number one AFTER the distributor is in place and on TDC compression stroke.  Might take a try or two to get it right.

If your piece of paper popped out as you turned the engine then you should indeed be on the compression stroke.
« Last Edit: January 06, 2018, 01:17:19 PM by 35-709 »
1935 Cadillac Sedan resto-mod "Big Red"
1973 Cadillac Caribou - Sold
1950 Jaguar Mark V Saloon resto-mod

Offline DMirrione

  • Posts: 45
  • Name: D Mirrione
Re: 1969 Deville Distributor Installation Issue
« Reply #2 on: January 06, 2018, 02:05:15 PM »
Thank you 35-709.

I have tried that and just reinstalled everything following the procedure including turning the oil pump to align. It felt like it wanted to turn over, but then it popped at the carb and sprayed a mist and a small amount of white smoke. I'm at a loss cause everything worked great before and I'm following all of the manual steps.

Could some of the earlier attempts have damaged the carb (rebuilt last weekend and working great)?

I did verify the spark wires for order and to make sure all were seated properly.
1969 Cadillac Deville Convertible
1978 Lincoln Mark V
1969 Ford Galaxie

Offline Jeff Rose CLC #28373

  • Posts: 1469
  • Name: Jeff Rose
Re: 1969 Deville Distributor Installation Issue
« Reply #3 on: January 06, 2018, 02:17:21 PM »
Did you just pull the cap or did you unplug the wires too?
Concerned that you messed the firing order up.
Bumping the starter to turn the engine is like driving a nail with a sledgehammer. You have tried all the right stuff but no luck. It mite be time to turn the engine by hand to get it precisely where you want it. May need to pull all the plugs out when you do. Mind the wire locations and firing order. Then mark where the rotor points to find #1.... also, don't forget #1 on this engine may be in a different location than on other engines you may have worked on. Sounds like you have the manual but just be sure. Also as stated above, the rotor will turn when it engages. Are you putting it on with the cap all the way off so that you can see where it is pointing? Also, are you lining #1 TDC up with the mark on the pulley or just eyeballing it? It isn't at full TDC until the mark says it is. A few degrees of rotation are lost when it transitions from moving up to moving down.
You'll get it, good luck.

Jeff
« Last Edit: January 06, 2018, 02:20:26 PM by Jeff Rose CLC #28373 »
Jeff
CLC #28373
1970 Coupe DeVille
1955 Series 62

Offline Bobby B

  • Posts: 1763
  • Mendham, New Jersey
  • Name: Bob Bender
Re: 1969 Deville Distributor Installation Issue
« Reply #4 on: January 06, 2018, 02:24:48 PM »
Dave,
 A. You don't damage a carb by having a distributor incorrectly installed. Simple problem. Did you touch the wires at all or get them mixed up? If not, it's just your distributorsthat's off, so don't panic.It's a common mistake. Backfiring thru the carb usually means your timing is off.....
  Take out the #1 plug, put your finger in the spark plug hole, and turn your engine over with a breaker bar of some sort on your front pulley, not the starter. You'll never get it right with a paper towel in there ???...When you feel compression as it wanting to push your finger out of the hole, stop and creep up on your TDC mark on your timing pointer using the breaker bar to turn it slowly. This is your compression stroke. If you go over, just turn it back until you're on the "TDC" mark on your balancer, timing cover, etc. Now, before you try putting the distributor back in, Put the cap on your distributor and make a mark with a Sharpie on the body of the distributor directly under the #1 tower on your cap. Remove the cap and now try installing your distributor so when it's SEATED FLUSH, your rotor should be in line with your sharpie mark you made on the distributor body.  If not, lift it back out and try again compensating for the direction either fore or aft depending on the angle of your two gears when they mesh. After a few tries, you'll get it right. You might also have to line up your oil pump shaft if it's slotted to get it to seat 100%. Trust me, You'll get the hang of it after a few times. Once you feel you're in the right position, button everything up and try starting it. It should be close enough to get the engine started and then you can set your proper timing needed with a timing light or by ear, if you don't have a light. I don't know the specs on your specific car, so you'll have to check your manual. Good Luck!
                                                                             Bobby
1947 Cadillac Series 62 Convertible Coupe
1968 Mustang Convertible
1973 Mustang Convertible
1969 Jaguar E-Type Roadster
1971 Datsun 240Z
1979 H-D FLH

Offline Bobby B

  • Posts: 1763
  • Mendham, New Jersey
  • Name: Bob Bender
Re: 1969 Deville Distributor Installation Issue
« Reply #5 on: January 06, 2018, 02:26:00 PM »
Jeff,
 Hi. Didn't mean to squash your post, but it took me 10 minutes to type that post so it was easy enough to understand! ::)
                                                                                          Bobby
1947 Cadillac Series 62 Convertible Coupe
1968 Mustang Convertible
1973 Mustang Convertible
1969 Jaguar E-Type Roadster
1971 Datsun 240Z
1979 H-D FLH

Offline Jeff Rose CLC #28373

  • Posts: 1469
  • Name: Jeff Rose
Re: 1969 Deville Distributor Installation Issue
« Reply #6 on: January 06, 2018, 02:38:35 PM »
No problem-- makes me feel good that we were thinking the same thing. Maybe I am learning after all.

One more thing that I thought of---
When I redid my engine, the cap and wires were nearly new. I just pulled them as a set and reinstalled them the same way (without disconnecting the wires). It wouldn't run at all. We located TDC and marked it as you say with a sharpie..... Someone, sometime had replaced the wires out of order. When I replaced them I just did 1 wire at a time so I duplicated the problem-- but the old engine still ran. The distributor was frozen in the old engine so I was never able to adjust the timing. After we marked #1, we realized it was 180 out. We just turned it 180. It ran but poorly. We then looked at the mark again and realized the wires were off by 1. We moved every wire 1 spot and she runs fine.
Point is that even tho it ran before, it may not run this time because things had been moved. Go back to basics. Mark #1 and verify from there. Your wires could be 180 out too.
Jeff
« Last Edit: January 06, 2018, 02:43:56 PM by Jeff Rose CLC #28373 »
Jeff
CLC #28373
1970 Coupe DeVille
1955 Series 62

Offline DMirrione

  • Posts: 45
  • Name: D Mirrione
Re: 1969 Deville Distributor Installation Issue
« Reply #7 on: January 06, 2018, 02:53:40 PM »
Thank you gentlemen.

I will be picking up a breaker bar today and will follow the steps outlined by Bobby. I'll report back in a while.

Thanks again for taking the time to craft such thorough responses.
1969 Cadillac Deville Convertible
1978 Lincoln Mark V
1969 Ford Galaxie

Offline Bobby B

  • Posts: 1763
  • Mendham, New Jersey
  • Name: Bob Bender
Re: 1969 Deville Distributor Installation Issue
« Reply #8 on: January 06, 2018, 04:04:54 PM »
Dave,
 Your Welcome. Keep us posted. Good Luck.... ;)
                                                 Bobby
 
1947 Cadillac Series 62 Convertible Coupe
1968 Mustang Convertible
1973 Mustang Convertible
1969 Jaguar E-Type Roadster
1971 Datsun 240Z
1979 H-D FLH

Offline DMirrione

  • Posts: 45
  • Name: D Mirrione
Re: 1969 Deville Distributor Installation Issue
« Reply #9 on: January 06, 2018, 09:13:15 PM »
Well, after following these instructions, I got her running again. I'll go through and retime and ensure the carb is tuned tomorrow.

One thing I am noticing that is different is that that distributor cap is louder than it was prior to removal. I'll double check that I have the cap seated properly tomorrow as well.

Thanks again for your help Jeff and Bobby
1969 Cadillac Deville Convertible
1978 Lincoln Mark V
1969 Ford Galaxie

Offline The Tassie Devil(le)

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  • Name: Bruce Reynolds
Re: 1969 Deville Distributor Installation Issue
« Reply #10 on: January 06, 2018, 09:14:49 PM »
The Distributor Cap shouldn't make any noise at all.

Check for the rotor rubbing somewhere inside it.

Bruce. >:D
'72 Eldorado Convertible (LHD)
'70 Ranchero Squire (RHD)
'74 Chris Craft Gull Wing (SH)
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Offline Bobby B

  • Posts: 1763
  • Mendham, New Jersey
  • Name: Bob Bender
Re: 1969 Deville Distributor Installation Issue
« Reply #11 on: January 06, 2018, 09:31:30 PM »
The Distributor Cap shouldn't make any noise at all.
Check for the rotor rubbing somewhere inside it.
Bruce. >:D

Sometimes different brands of components are slightly incompatible.It's tough with all the offshore parts nowadays. You have to check EVERYTHING..... Compare it with your old stuff, but first make sure the cap is seated properly and not cocked. If it is, you might've already ruined them by scoring or chewing them up. Check it immediately before you restart the car. I'm glad it worked out for you. Good Deal!
                                                                                                                                                                     Bobby
1947 Cadillac Series 62 Convertible Coupe
1968 Mustang Convertible
1973 Mustang Convertible
1969 Jaguar E-Type Roadster
1971 Datsun 240Z
1979 H-D FLH

Offline Jeff Rose CLC #28373

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  • Name: Jeff Rose
Re: 1969 Deville Distributor Installation Issue
« Reply #12 on: January 07, 2018, 09:34:24 AM »
Good job. What did you end up doing?
Jeff
Jeff
CLC #28373
1970 Coupe DeVille
1955 Series 62

Offline DMirrione

  • Posts: 45
  • Name: D Mirrione
Re: 1969 Deville Distributor Installation Issue
« Reply #13 on: January 07, 2018, 09:46:52 AM »
Good job. What did you end up doing?
Jeff

I basically followed the instructions in post 4 with the exception of the breaker bar. I ended up using my remote starter cause I was having trouble getting the to the crank. I then followed your advice and redid the wires.

Today, I'll adjust the carb now that my timing is good. I also need to set the idle speed up since I replaced the thermal vacuum switch. Once I do that, I'll be done.

Next will be carpet replacement and I'm replacing the convertible top components. Fun winter projects!
1969 Cadillac Deville Convertible
1978 Lincoln Mark V
1969 Ford Galaxie

Offline Jeff Rose CLC #28373

  • Posts: 1469
  • Name: Jeff Rose
Re: 1969 Deville Distributor Installation Issue
« Reply #14 on: January 07, 2018, 10:28:41 AM »
Good job
Jeff
CLC #28373
1970 Coupe DeVille
1955 Series 62

Offline DMirrione

  • Posts: 45
  • Name: D Mirrione
Re: 1969 Deville Distributor Installation Issue
« Reply #15 on: January 07, 2018, 11:10:30 AM »
To put a bow on this post, after setting the timing and adjusting the carb, the car is running great again. Thank you for all the help.
1969 Cadillac Deville Convertible
1978 Lincoln Mark V
1969 Ford Galaxie

 

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