Author Topic: Recomend starting after month of  (Read 478 times)

Offline 60eldo

  • Posts: 790
  • EVERYDAY ABOVE GROUND IS A GOOD DAY
  • Name: Johnny.K. CLC MEMBER #27762
Recomend starting after month of
« on: January 10, 2018, 10:06:34 AM »
  Hey guys weve had a harsh bidder cold winter up here and my car is in storage in unheated garage. Tomorrow will go up to 50 degrees here just wondering if it would be a good idea to start her and let it run for 30 min or so,,,, shes been parked for about 2 months without starting,,,,,,,or should I just leave it til spring
J. Kluczynski

Offline Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621

  • Posts: 4034
    • CLC Member
      CLC Member #8621
  • Name: Eric DeVirgilis
Re: Recomend starting after month of
« Reply #1 on: January 10, 2018, 10:10:40 AM »
There is no benefit to doing that; more harm than good. Leave it alone until spring.
A Cadillac Motorcar is a Possession for Which There is no Acceptable Substitute

Offline James Landi

  • Posts: 716
  • 2007 XLR
    • CLC Member
      CLC Member #21920
  • Name: James Landi
Re: Recomend starting after month of
« Reply #2 on: January 10, 2018, 11:04:50 AM »
Ditto on Eric's response--- here's an expert quote --- ".Most engine wear occurs during the first 10 minutes before it reaches operating temperature, whether the car is driven or not. It takes a bit of time for cold, thicker oil to reach all parts. Cylinder walls, for instance, have little or no oil during initial start. So combine trips. Even if you start and stop repeatedly, the engine is in hot soak. No damage during the next run." Happy day, James

Offline TJ Hopland

  • Posts: 6873
Re: Recomend starting after month of
« Reply #3 on: January 10, 2018, 11:08:34 AM »
I'm with the others so far,  you can't or don't want to drive it don't start it. 
StPaul/Mpls, MN USA

73 Eldo convert w/FiTech EFI
75 Eldo rusty but trusty
80 Eldo Diesel
And other assorted stuff I keep buying for some reason

Offline 35-709

  • Posts: 2878
  • The most valuable antique is an old friend.
    • CLC Member
      CLC Member #4719
  • Name: G. Newcombe
Re: Recomend starting after month of
« Reply #4 on: January 10, 2018, 12:04:59 PM »
Add my agreement. 
1935 Cadillac Sedan resto-mod "Big Red"
1973 Cadillac Caribou - Sold
1950 Jaguar Mark V Saloon resto-mod

Offline Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621

  • Posts: 4034
    • CLC Member
      CLC Member #8621
  • Name: Eric DeVirgilis
Re: Recomend starting after month of
« Reply #5 on: January 10, 2018, 12:18:41 PM »
Additionally, condensation accumulation in the exhaust increases dramatically in cold weather with each run cycle. Just not a good idea all around.
A Cadillac Motorcar is a Possession for Which There is no Acceptable Substitute

Offline gkhashem

  • Posts: 104
    • CLC Member
      CLC Member #26576
  • Name: George K Hashem
Re: Recomend starting after month of
« Reply #6 on: January 10, 2018, 02:55:31 PM »
So what if your car is in a heated garage at 50 degrees and the oil is not real cold. Any harm starting her up pulling outside and running the the for 20 minutes or so and putting the car back.

The reason I ask I have a car that was run this way for 40-50 years and seems to run great and no harm appears to be done. I was told this from the car I bought from the widow of the original owner.

The car runs tight with no oil being burnt or smoke other than condensation at start.

Can you weigh no oil circulation for 4 months v. a start at 50 degrees once a month?  I suspect that may not harm anything as long as you warm the car up to operating temperature.

I agree with not starting it up at freezing and with cold motor oil.
1959 Cadillac Coupe Deville
1964 Oldsmobile 98 Town Sedan
1966 Cadillac Coupe Deville (Senior #861)
1970 GMC C/K 1500
1978 Cadillac Coupe Deville (Senior Crown #959)
1984 Oldsmobile Delta 88 Royal Brougham Coupe
1989 Buick Reatta
1991 Oldsmobile Toronado Trofeo (OCA 1st)
1991 Cadillac Eldorado Biarritz (Senior #838)

Offline TJ Hopland

  • Posts: 6873
Re: Recomend starting after month of
« Reply #7 on: January 10, 2018, 03:08:08 PM »
Seems like the question is how long does oil stay on and in things?    Is there a difference between days, weeks, months, or even years?   

I'm kinda thinking not.   My guess is within a few hours what ever is going to run off runs off and it takes more in the years range of time for what remains to really change.    I have worked on engines that have sat for years and there still seems to be some signs of oil on many of the surfaces.
StPaul/Mpls, MN USA

73 Eldo convert w/FiTech EFI
75 Eldo rusty but trusty
80 Eldo Diesel
And other assorted stuff I keep buying for some reason

Offline Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621

  • Posts: 4034
    • CLC Member
      CLC Member #8621
  • Name: Eric DeVirgilis
Re: Recomend starting after month of
« Reply #8 on: January 10, 2018, 03:39:27 PM »
Old cars with carburetor generally don't burn fuel cleanly at idle speeds. I would expect plugs more prone to fouling over time as well as increased internal carbon accumulation in general. 

A car with dual exhaust would theoretically have to be run twice as long to fully evaporate the condensation as one with single exhaust. (Cadillac itself had claimed exhaust system life expectancy is doubled when it went to single exhaust in 1961.)

Just the act of starting an engine (especially if it had been sitting for an extended period) when oil is fully drained back into the pan causes far more wear than something like thousands of miles driven on the highway by simple virtue of the moments of running "dry" until the oil had a chance to circulate fully. Of course none of this even accounts for the extra wear on the starter, gear, flywheel, battery and charging system as it attempt to regenerate battery energy lost in cranking.
 
Finally, charging systems that use generators (as opposed to alternators) don't charge well at idle either. They really need to be driven at speed to properly recharge. And don't forget the cost of gas.  ;)

Worst of all if, heaven forbid, the engine doesn't fully warm up is the accumulation of sludge. I've seen many engines destroyed after years of being driven for very short trips. 20 minutes idle time @50 degrees is probably the shortest amount of time I would trust to get the job on that score.   

That said, regular stating won't give provide any benefit over the same car that was left alone for several months, perhaps even a year or more. Given all the negatives - some potential, others definite-  and if it won't run any better in the spring if you do, it just makes no sense to engage in this practice.

A Cadillac Motorcar is a Possession for Which There is no Acceptable Substitute

Offline Bobby B

  • Posts: 1748
  • Mendham, New Jersey
  • Name: Bob Bender
Re: Recomend starting after month of
« Reply #9 on: January 10, 2018, 04:08:02 PM »
Q: Any harm starting her up pulling outside and running the the for 20 minutes or so and putting the car back.

A: Why would you even bother wasting your time if you're not going to drive it.....

Agree to all of the above. My cars don't come out until I'm ready to use them come springtime....
                                                                                                                   Bobby
1947 Cadillac Series 62 Convertible Coupe
1968 Mustang Convertible
1973 Mustang Convertible
1969 Jaguar E-Type Roadster
1971 Datsun 240Z
1979 H-D FLH

Offline The Tassie Devil(le)

  • Administrator
  • Posts: 7619
    • CLC Member
      CLC Member #18992
  • Name: Bruce Reynolds
Re: Recomend starting after month of
« Reply #10 on: January 10, 2018, 04:25:22 PM »
Sometimes my engines can sit for many months without running, and I make no different stuff before I start them, with the exception of pouring a small amount of petrol straight into the carby throat.

I have one engine that hasn't been run in 6 years, following a prang, and when I fire it up, it will be a gutfull of petrol down the carby, and hit the switch.   Each time it stops, when the gutfull ran out, do it again, and after about two or three times, it will run.   Might take a bit longer this time, as the vehicle has a replacement fuel tank and all the lines will be empty.   Actually, I might do a bit of sucking on the inlet line to the carby to assist in filling the lines and pump.

Bruce. >:D
'72 Eldorado Convertible (LHD)
'70 Ranchero Squire (RHD)
'74 Chris Craft Gull Wing (SH)
'02 VX Series II Holden Commodore SS Sedan
(Past President Modified Chapter)

Online Carl Fielding

  • Posts: 379
    • CLC Member
      CLC Member #10797
  • Name: Carl Fielding
Re: Recomend starting after month of
« Reply #11 on: January 10, 2018, 05:00:34 PM »
Batting a thousand with our unanimous replies. Right. To properly warm up an engine , in the most efficient way possible , it must be run under load. As to drain down time , after which corrosion begins on cylinder walls , IIRC test data finds that some period of several days , to weeks. Naturally this is highly variable depending on ambient conditions. If , for example , the engine sits at at a stable 80 below zero in Antarctica , at 0.000037% relative humidity , you will have well preserved cylinder walls when you begin the involved re start sequence. Those dogs sleep best undisturbed . Different case entirely if you are retired to , say , San Jose , Costa Rica. High humidity , and significant temperature swings obviously promote rapid corrosion. Frequent driving and/or air conditioned , dehumidified storage will pay dividends.

We in the old car hobby are fortunate in that there is at least one synthetic oil company who has formulated a masterpiece with periods of lay up taken into consideration. Amsoil Z-Rod is apparently state-of-the-art. Please look it up. Amsoil is quite good at providing specifics. I always try to remember to include the standard disclaimer : I have absolutely no financial interest in , nor obligation to Amsoil. I am not a dealer (maybe I should have been) , I am simply a customer , perhaps a disciple. However , I would give up my loyalty immediately if someone could prove a better oil is available. Use their Synthetic grease too.

Ahhhhh............ , the days are starting to get longer. You know what THAT means ! If celestial mechanics still rule , my dear brothers and sisters , we will be starting 'em up FOR REAL fairly soon ! (Oh how time flys when you are old !)
                                           Patience.   - Cadillac Carl , a.k.a. Lord Fielding 😂

Offline gkhashem

  • Posts: 104
    • CLC Member
      CLC Member #26576
  • Name: George K Hashem
Re: Recomend starting after month of
« Reply #12 on: January 10, 2018, 05:54:26 PM »
That said it appears the starting is not the issue from what is being said it is the not driving it under a load. Idling is not sufficient to warm up the engine properly?

A 50 degree start should not be an issue it appears people feel the idling is not good.

If not why start them at all?  Every start will put wear on the engine if you want to take it to an extreme. If the oil is warm enough to flow well any start should be the same as any other start.

« Last Edit: January 10, 2018, 06:05:52 PM by gkhashem »
1959 Cadillac Coupe Deville
1964 Oldsmobile 98 Town Sedan
1966 Cadillac Coupe Deville (Senior #861)
1970 GMC C/K 1500
1978 Cadillac Coupe Deville (Senior Crown #959)
1984 Oldsmobile Delta 88 Royal Brougham Coupe
1989 Buick Reatta
1991 Oldsmobile Toronado Trofeo (OCA 1st)
1991 Cadillac Eldorado Biarritz (Senior #838)

Offline The Tassie Devil(le)

  • Administrator
  • Posts: 7619
    • CLC Member
      CLC Member #18992
  • Name: Bruce Reynolds
Re: Recomend starting after month of
« Reply #13 on: January 10, 2018, 06:21:17 PM »
I must add that I also make sure I drive any car that I start (out of hibernation) I drive for at least 50 miles to stabilise everything.

Bruce. >:D
'72 Eldorado Convertible (LHD)
'70 Ranchero Squire (RHD)
'74 Chris Craft Gull Wing (SH)
'02 VX Series II Holden Commodore SS Sedan
(Past President Modified Chapter)

Offline Bobby B

  • Posts: 1748
  • Mendham, New Jersey
  • Name: Bob Bender
Re: Recomend starting after month of
« Reply #14 on: January 10, 2018, 07:40:24 PM »
To properly warm up an engine , in the most efficient way possible , it must be run under load.  If , for example , the engine sits at at a stable 80 below zero in Antarctica , at 0.000037% relative humidity , you will have well preserved cylinder walls when you begin the involved re start sequence. T

What do you mean by "Under Load". Towing a vehicle? Normal Driving?
 The main reason for just starting a vehicle and NOT driving it, is that condensation has built up in the block, oil pan, etc., and it doesn't get a chance to burn off without a bit of driving at normal operating temperatures. For all practical reasons, I would think it would also prove valid even at a normal outside ambient temperature.The clearances in today's engine allow for lighter oil weights and different circumstances, so even the manufacturers give their blessings regarding start it up and go. If it happened to be humid where you live and cooler the next day or vice versa, condensation will build up internally, regardless of any temperature. Just open up your sealed garage in humid weather and see what happens. The walls will bleed moisture and your windows will fog up almost immediately after opening up the door.
Carl, how many classic cars do you think are sitting in Antartica right now @ 0.000037% humidity....Hard to relate to that fact, living in somewhat stable climates where 99% of the population reside and the original question pertains to. We went to the extreme again to address a simple question......
                                                                                                                                                                Bobby

                                       
1947 Cadillac Series 62 Convertible Coupe
1968 Mustang Convertible
1973 Mustang Convertible
1969 Jaguar E-Type Roadster
1971 Datsun 240Z
1979 H-D FLH

Online Carl Fielding

  • Posts: 379
    • CLC Member
      CLC Member #10797
  • Name: Carl Fielding
Re: Recomend starting after month of
« Reply #15 on: January 10, 2018, 10:29:12 PM »
HI , Bobby B ! Sure. " Under load" means , in the case of an automotive engine , driving the car , as opposed to just letting "it run for 30 minutes or so" , (eg. idle ? Give it an occasional "goose" every couple minutes ?) , as 60eldo proposes. "Under load" is related to manufacturers giving "their blessings regarding start it up and go." As to classic cars in Antarctica , regardless of ambient temperatures and humidity , I would expect very few. There certainly are some very ancient internal combustion conveyances. Perhaps some of them are a century or so old. I imagine we would all marvel at the state of preservation of their mechanical internals. We hear of the remarkable condition of WW-2 military equipment abandoned in quite cold dry environments. Some appear to be turn key. Compare with old scrap lying out somewhere near you for 75 years. I picked an extreme to illustrate my point. Not to select a possible future CLC tour destination , although , Global Warming ? I think the Antarctic Highlands are the most arid desert on Planet Earth. Exaggeration is a good technique to utilize in order to clarify something. I don't know where 60eldo is , but my statement regarding corrosion beng dependent on ambient conditions would also hold if the temp were - 20 and 0.37% R.H. , or + 20 and 3.7% R.H. Honestly , I would not want to spend much of what time I have left suffering long periods of either of these considerably more comfortable than Arctic conditions , but many people endure this every winter.

Bobby , forgive me if you feel my earlier posting is confusing. I guess I can see that. I have a point to make , and would be happy to tap some more if further clarification is needed.

As far as 60eldo is concerned : man ! If you have been agonizing in a long , bitter cold Winter , and you have some nice dry 50 degree days coming up , why not take the advice of CLC's very own and highly esteemed 'Devil' ? I don't think a nice long 50 mile or so drive would put your soul at risk. You might find the experience to have just the opposite effect ! If you feel the need for further absolution , why not drain the old oil and refill with Z-Rod after the long warm up drive ? The simple start up after the change will coat your precious internal combustion engine with the best protection this side of the South Pole !                Please submit a drive report !   - Carl 😀

Offline wrench

  • Posts: 185
    • CLC Member
      CLC Member #27930
  • Name: Jim Cullen
Re: Recomend starting after month of
« Reply #16 on: January 11, 2018, 12:07:32 AM »
I always have to laugh at this subject. i am in the minority, but will point out that how many times have you seen a car for sale that has a stuck motor advertised as 'ran when parked'...

If the dude just ran the car once in a while, it would probably be ok, but since he 'never' ran it, the motor is now stuck.

All I know is that all of my machinery is run periodically so that I am aware of it's status.

For example, I borrowed a buddy's 26 foot scissor lift at work. It sits idle for long periods of time between uses.

Well, it didn't work. so I fixed a broken wire and added some hydraulic fluid and did a walkaround condition check and now it is ready to use. The guy is out of town for another week or two and now when he gets back, his piece of equipment is ready for him to use.

Oh, and by the way, I rent a garage for my 'overstock' vehicles. there is another renter with an old corvette. Last week when i went to check on my vehicles ( and yes, run them up) I noticed a very large puddle of oil under his car...that has been sitting idle for 3 months.

So, its not a bad idea to check out your equipment periodically for general condition and operability, even if you have to sacrifice a molecule or two of bearing material.


1951 Series 62 Sedan
1969 Eldorado
1970 Eldorado (Triple Black w/power roof)
1958 Apache 3/4 ton 4x4
2005 F250
2014 FLHP
2014 SRX

Online Carl Fielding

  • Posts: 379
    • CLC Member
      CLC Member #10797
  • Name: Carl Fielding
Re: Recomend starting after month of
« Reply #17 on: January 11, 2018, 12:57:45 AM »
I hear ya , Jim. It further corroborates the "Work all systems" approach as you put full warmup on the entire system. From all transmission functions down to the radio. Particularly good idea to raise cabin heat up to the uncomfortable level if your car has A/C , and then run the A/C until you "become cold of tail". (That is a polite way of saying "FYA off"). Yup. Complex machinery benefits from regular exercise , even if it is not obsessively frequent.  - CC

Offline 60eldo

  • Posts: 790
  • EVERYDAY ABOVE GROUND IS A GOOD DAY
  • Name: Johnny.K. CLC MEMBER #27762
Re: Recomend starting after month of
« Reply #18 on: January 11, 2018, 09:12:04 AM »
    Ya, I was concerned about the trans too. Sitting all that time could the seals not dry out, thats what I heard.
J. Kluczynski

Offline EAM 17806

  • Posts: 367
  • GOD Bless America - Love It or Leave It For Good!
    • CLC Member
      CLC Member #17806
Re: Recomend starting after month of
« Reply #19 on: January 11, 2018, 10:19:51 AM »
There is no benefit to doing that; more harm than good. Leave it alone until spring.
  ERIC:  Wouldn't starting the car and letting it run for at least 15-20 minutes with an alternator remove the condensation within the motor; why would this do harm to an engine?  One gallon of gas usage cost would be irrelevant to protect an engine.  EAM
« Last Edit: January 11, 2018, 11:31:02 AM by EAM 17806 »
Ev Marabian

1976 Cadillac Coupe DeVille, 1989 Chevrolet Caprice Classic

 

Get the CLCMRC 2018 Calendar - AVAILABLE NOW!