Author Topic: My 365 Rebuild  (Read 310 times)

Online CadillacRob

  • Posts: 264
  • Name: Rob Basile
My 365 Rebuild
« on: January 11, 2018, 09:08:19 AM »
So I just wanted to bounce this off you fellow caddy guys.

My machinist is an old guy who's been in business for over 50 years.  He is so old school he doesnt use the internet or advertise.  Only orders direct from parts houses and catalogues.

A few bits of bad news.  One exhaust manifold had a hole in it, which I knew about.  The other is so rusted on, drilling out the studs and heating it red hot won't release it.  He said he never saw one that stuck.  So he has to cut it off.  An expensive part to sacrifice.  He couldn't rebuild the head with it on.

And now for the heads.  He said both were cracked but he repaired them both.  He said he expected them to be cracked as many did back in the day.  I'm sort of impressed/worried because everyone online talks about cracked heads being junk at that point, and he repaired mine?  I don't know how, I guess welded and recut.

He said he looked high and low for new valve springs and couldn't find them.  A quick google search turned up repro's for me.  He offered to put them in if I buy them but he told me he used a set of Chevy racing springs that he uses all the time and trusts.  Same diameter and spring rate.  I told him if he's confident with that then I'll use them, especially considering the reproduction ones online are undoubtedly Chinese.  Using a spring that isnt correct spec and wiping out a cam lobe would be too much of an amateur mistake in my opinion.

A bit of a gamble here and I'm nervous. But he's a real nice guy and had a bunch of old engines in his old shop.  A friend recommended him who's into flathead Ford's.  His friends had good work done by him.  The man doesn't advertise and has tons of work and has been in the same building for decades so he must be doing something right I guess. 

Anyhow, thoughts?
« Last Edit: January 11, 2018, 09:10:43 AM by CadillacRob »
1950 series 61 sedan
1956 coupe de ville

Offline jaxops

  • Mark Monaghan
  • Posts: 407
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      CLC Member #24591
Re: My 365 Rebuild
« Reply #1 on: January 11, 2018, 09:39:58 AM »
Watch for cracks in the air intake manifold also.  I replaced mine but it was a tough part to find.
1970 Buick Electra Convertible
1956 Cadillac Series 75 Limousine
1949 Cadillac Series 75 Imperial Limousine
1989 Ford Crown Victoria Station Wagon
1997 Lincoln Town Car
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Online Dave Shepherd

  • Posts: 1961
Re: My 365 Rebuild
« Reply #2 on: January 11, 2018, 09:49:19 AM »
I'd ask how he fixed a cracked head, tricky job on cast iron. I would think "racing' valve spring in your engine could be problematic.  I would find out what the seat and open pressures are.

Offline cadman56

  • Posts: 356
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      CLC Member #5820
  • Name: Larry Blanchard
Re: My 365 Rebuild
« Reply #3 on: January 11, 2018, 10:06:38 AM »
I wonder is he used the metal stitching process?  I have seen that done and it is pretty amazing if done correctly.
I would be a bit skeptical about the valve springs.  Checking open/closed pressures a must.
An old machinist in my area builds and races the Ford flatheads.  I have seen the awesome HP they pull on his engine dyno.
Good luck.
1956 Cadillac Coupe deVille (sold)
1956 Cadillac Convertible (sold)
1956 Cadillac Eldorado Seville
1967 Cadillac Eldorado (sold)
1968 Cadillac Convertible
1991 Cadillac Fleetwood Brougham dElegance
Larry Blanchard CLC #5820

Offline lexi

  • Posts: 242
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  • Name: C.R. Foley
Re: My 365 Rebuild
« Reply #4 on: January 11, 2018, 07:32:32 PM »
I would like to know where your cylinder head cracks were and whether you had the first or second generation heads. Clay/Lexi

Offline Bobby B

  • Posts: 1763
  • Mendham, New Jersey
  • Name: Bob Bender
Re: My 365 Rebuild
« Reply #5 on: January 11, 2018, 08:05:04 PM »
My machinist is an old guy who's been in business for over 50 years.  He is so old school he doesnt use the internet or advertise.
Anyhow, thoughts?

Rob,
 Hi. It sounds to me like he's a little too "Old School".......Drop a line to Bob Ritchie when you get a chance and find out what he recently went through. Keep us posted and Good Luck!
           Bobby
1947 Cadillac Series 62 Convertible Coupe
1968 Mustang Convertible
1973 Mustang Convertible
1969 Jaguar E-Type Roadster
1971 Datsun 240Z
1979 H-D FLH

Online CadillacRob

  • Posts: 264
  • Name: Rob Basile
Re: My 365 Rebuild
« Reply #6 on: January 11, 2018, 08:49:03 PM »
We'll see what happens.  Should be ready in a week or so.  Original price was $2300, but we'll see if it goes up at all with all the extra trouble those manifolds gave him.  That includes regrinding the original camshaft, which we discussed at length and he truly prefers over buying a new one (even though it's cheaper to have him regrind than buy one).  New pistons/rings, all bearings, new valves and hardened exhaust seats.

What an emotional rollercoaster.  My transmission is already beautifully restored so I'm pretty committed to using a 365.
Like I said, I don't think he'd use springs that weren't up to the task/spec.  He's been at this longer than I've been alive.

I'll keep you all posted!

By the way, I need a set of exhaust manifolds if anyone has any leads.
1950 series 61 sedan
1956 coupe de ville

Offline fishnjim

  • Posts: 395
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  • Name: J. Bozin
Re: My 365 Rebuild
« Reply #7 on: January 12, 2018, 08:14:55 PM »
"Rebuilders Choice" has a complete set of rebuild parts for this motor.
Pistons can be obtained from Egge.   
Have him run a compression test or run on test stand.   I had mine dynoed before I took it. 
If a head is cracked it won't hold compression or leaks coolant, so what choice do you have?   Get another old head and hope it's not cracked?   
I wouldn't be concerned about the valve springs, if the rods are the correct length and nothing hits.   These are common items that get changed.   Easy to change.   

Offline V63

  • Posts: 353
  • Name: W Link
Re: My 365 Rebuild
« Reply #8 on: January 12, 2018, 10:10:23 PM »
“he used a set of Chevy racing springs that he uses all the time and trusts.  Same diameter and spring rate”

I think people are getting confused as the word ‘racing’ was used in conjunction with same diameter and spring rate.

So it’s kinda like the saying: “ which weighs more a pound of lead or a pound of feathers”

Offline wearymicrobe

  • Posts: 69
  • Name: Michael Coehn
Re: My 365 Rebuild
« Reply #9 on: January 19, 2018, 01:20:43 PM »
You can stitch heads very easily and they will hold for the life of the engine. Do it all the time. Heck they did it locally on a 330GTC. Getting them off without more damage is usually the issue.


Racing Vales are just a marking term, if they work with modern gas and are the right construction style then its fine. They use Chevy valves in Ferrari's all the time on rebuilds as they are the right size. Rocker ratio and clearance much more important.

Online CadillacRob

  • Posts: 264
  • Name: Rob Basile
Re: My 365 Rebuild
« Reply #10 on: Yesterday at 10:16:55 AM »
You can stitch heads very easily and they will hold for the life of the engine. Do it all the time. Heck they did it locally on a 330GTC. Getting them off without more damage is usually the issue.


Racing Vales are just a marking term, if they work with modern gas and are the right construction style then its fine. They use Chevy valves in Ferrari's all the time on rebuilds as they are the right size. Rocker ratio and clearance much more important.

Thanks for the info.  Makes me feel a bit better.

Engine was supposed to be done last Friday but I imagine next week we should be good to go. 
1950 series 61 sedan
1956 coupe de ville

Offline fishnjim

  • Posts: 395
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  • Name: J. Bozin
Re: My 365 Rebuild
« Reply #11 on: Yesterday at 10:23:18 AM »
Make sure you follow some break in procedure.   Talk to your rebuilder based on what he uses and does.
You'll probably want to use a break in oil and change after.  There was a little bit of wear metal in that first oil, that needs to get out so maximize life.
That's why I had mine run and dynoed, to get to bugs out, no leaks, noise, etc..   
After it's back in the car, it's a lot of work to take out again, if needed.

 

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