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Bias ply vs radial

Started by CadillacRob, January 16, 2018, 12:17:37 AM

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MY 59

Just my 2 cents, but I considered my 59 to be quite dangerous on the cross ply tyres it came with.
you could feel them squirm under the weight of the car upon cornering and braking, and the whole driving experience was an effort

granted they were a little old, but since I fitted a set of Coker Classics the car is a damn pleasure to drive

I know they arent original and judges may frown on them, but I drive my Cadillac as often as I can and I consider this a safety issue

if there is something that will improve my confidence in the car and it's safety/reliability, I will do it

again, just my 2 cents :)
David Bone :)

1959 Cadillac Sedan Deville
1967 (aussie) ZA ford Fairlane

The Tassie Devil(le)

G'day Dave,

Not much real anal judging goes on down this neck of the equator, and Aussies like a car to look good, BUT, it has to drive safely.

Bruce. >:D
'72 Eldorado Convertible (LHD)
'70 Ranchero Squire (RHD)
'74 Chris Craft Gull Wing (SH)
'02 VX Series II Holden Commodore SS Sedan
(Past President Modified Chapter)

Past Cars of significance - to me
1935 Ford 3 Window Coupe
1936 Ford 5 Window Coupe
1937 Chevrolet Sports Coupe
1955 Chevrolet Convertible
1959 Ford Fairlane Ranch Wagon
1960 Cadillac CDV
1972 Cadillac Eldorado Coupe

Lexi

I'm with Eric on this one. I also want to experience a vintage ride in a car that is as close to a 'time machine' as possible, so I am keeping bias plys on my '50s ride. If it was driven a lot more I might consider radials, but for my purely recreational, occasional driving I am sticking with the old style tires. Clay/Lexi

wearymicrobe

Quote from: MY 59 on January 18, 2018, 06:51:11 PM
Just my 2 cents, but I considered my 59 to be quite dangerous on the cross ply tyres it came with.
you could feel them squirm under the weight of the car upon cornering and braking, and the whole driving experience was an effort

granted they were a little old, but since I fitted a set of Coker Classics the car is a damn pleasure to drive



This has been my experience. My 57 drives and tracks like a modern turck, which is a good thing, on radial tires. On Bias ply tires it is all over the road regardless of cost of supplier. I will go further and say in a car as big and heavy as a Cadillac you should not run bias ply tires period unless you are trailering the car to show.

Frankly I am so sick of it I am just getting portawalls and calling it a day. I am using bridge stone dualers off of a jeep OEM application as they meet the weight requirements and ride like a dream in a car as heavy as mine. They are not so hidous once you smooth the wall of the tire out.




z3skybolt

#24
I am 70 years of age,

I forgot how horribly bias ply tires performed until I purchased a 1940 LaSalle with B.F. Goodrich bias ply.  Fine on smooth highways.  Constant effort on back roads. Soon I will replace them with radials. Bought my car to drive and enjoy. Not to show.

Your mileage may vary......

Bob

1940 LaSalle 5227 Coupe(purchased May 2016)
1985 Lincoln Town Car Signature Series. Bought New.

gkhashem

I have bias tires on my 1959 Coupe Deville and a 1964 Olds 98. My 1966 Coupe Deville has radials but I chose them since I can get modern tires in that size so rather than spend a $1000 on new bias I spent $ 350.00 on new Cooper radials. Then again when you have 9 cars you sometimes have to economize. Plus the 1966 looks like the radials could belong on the car.

Do I know I have bias  tires on the car when I drive, well yes. But I drive the car as you should. Nice and easy. Cruising at a leisurely pace. Taking turns slowly and controlled. Part of the issue is the way you drive the car. Now note I say part of the issue not all. There is a difference.

I tend to think many of you guys out there drive like the general public. In big hurry, to go no where.

Are you guys driving 45 years old and older cars like a modern car? Taking turns on 2 wheels cutting in and out of traffic?

The only time my bias tires wander is if the road I am on is bad.  Bad in that the road has ruts or remnants of what we call frost heaves in NH. The car will not wander on a decent road, only on poor roads does it wander. I cannot really tell the difference on a newly paved road as long as I drive in a controlled manner.

So you can do what you want, but I drive these cars around 500 miles a year and generally on short trips a bias tire works for me.
1959 Oldsmobile 98 Holiday Sports Sedan
1960 Cadillac Coupe Deville (CLC Sr #72)
1964 Oldsmobile 98 Town Sedan (OCA 1st)
1970 GMC C1500
1977 Oldsmobile 98 Regency Coupe
1978 Cadillac Coupe Deville (CLC Sr Crown #959)*
1992 Oldsmobile 98 (OCA 1st)
1996 Oldsmobile 98
*CLC Past President's Preservation

Past Cadillacs
1959 Coupe Deville
1966 Coupe Deville (Sr #861)*
1991 Eldorado Biarritz (Sr #838)

gkhashem

Quote from: z3skybolt on January 19, 2018, 06:32:38 PM
I am 70 years of age,

I forgot how horribly bias ply tires performed until I purchased a 1940 LaSalle with B.F. Goodrich bias ply.  Fine on smooth highways.  Constant effort on back roads. Soon I will replace them with radials. Bought my car to drive and enjoy. Not to show.

Your mileage may vary......

Bob

Bob

I drove a 1939 Cadillac Coupe Series 61 once (looking to buy it) and the effort came from no power steering and no power brakes. So the tires should help but I imagine they all drive somewhat like a truck.
1959 Oldsmobile 98 Holiday Sports Sedan
1960 Cadillac Coupe Deville (CLC Sr #72)
1964 Oldsmobile 98 Town Sedan (OCA 1st)
1970 GMC C1500
1977 Oldsmobile 98 Regency Coupe
1978 Cadillac Coupe Deville (CLC Sr Crown #959)*
1992 Oldsmobile 98 (OCA 1st)
1996 Oldsmobile 98
*CLC Past President's Preservation

Past Cadillacs
1959 Coupe Deville
1966 Coupe Deville (Sr #861)*
1991 Eldorado Biarritz (Sr #838)

The Tassie Devil(le)

Quote from: z3skybolt on January 19, 2018, 06:32:38 PM
I am 70 years of age,    I forgot how horribly bias ply tires performed until I purchased a 1940 LaSalle with B.F. Goodrich bias ply.  Fine on smooth highways.  Constant effort on back roads. Soon I will replace them with radials. Bought my car to drive and enjoy. Not to show.  Bob   
G'day Bob,

I too am 70 years young, and purchased my first set of Radial tyres in 1967, and never looked back.

The only time I would buy Cross Plies was to fit to trailers.   Now, down here Cross Plies are like hens' teeth.

Bruce. >:D
'72 Eldorado Convertible (LHD)
'70 Ranchero Squire (RHD)
'74 Chris Craft Gull Wing (SH)
'02 VX Series II Holden Commodore SS Sedan
(Past President Modified Chapter)

Past Cars of significance - to me
1935 Ford 3 Window Coupe
1936 Ford 5 Window Coupe
1937 Chevrolet Sports Coupe
1955 Chevrolet Convertible
1959 Ford Fairlane Ranch Wagon
1960 Cadillac CDV
1972 Cadillac Eldorado Coupe

z3skybolt

#28
George,

Having grown up without power steering and brakes I never notice unless I am parking.  Back then I didn't know the difference.  I have driven the LaSalle about  2,000 miles. As someone said earlier...it is the roads with ruts and ridges that cause the bias ply tires to track and swerve all over.  I live in a rural area and enjoy the quiet, paved, back roads. That is where the bias ply cause much effort.

Otherwise...cruising is sweet and smooth.

bob
1940 LaSalle 5227 Coupe(purchased May 2016)
1985 Lincoln Town Car Signature Series. Bought New.

TJ Hopland

One thing that puzzles me is why are people bothering to make radial bias look alike tires that apparently don't look like bias tires?   From reading here people say they are not quite the right size just because of the characteristics of the different construction and that can be a big problem with tight spaces like fender skirts.   

Seems like if you are building a radial mold from scratch to look like a bias tire they could make it what ever size would give the proper look say a 231 77 R 15 if that was what it took.   Why do they stick with 225 or 235 75 if they are building from scratch?   Or are they cheating a little and they bought likely worn out molds from out of production models and are slightly modifying them so they can only make minor changes?  Or is it some legal issue with getting a DOT certification on a 'new' size?  I could imagine the possible liability issues are more complex and expensive than actually designing and building a tire.
StPaul/Mpls, MN USA

73 Eldo convert w/FiTech EFI
80 Eldo Diesel
90 CDV
And other assorted stuff I keep buying for some reason

The Tassie Devil(le)

Quote from: TJ Hopland on January 20, 2018, 01:19:59 AM
.......  Or is it some legal issue with getting a DOT certification on a 'new' size?  I could imagine the possible liability issues are more complex and expensive than actually designing and building a tire. 
TJ,

I think you have hit it in one.

Bruce. >:D
'72 Eldorado Convertible (LHD)
'70 Ranchero Squire (RHD)
'74 Chris Craft Gull Wing (SH)
'02 VX Series II Holden Commodore SS Sedan
(Past President Modified Chapter)

Past Cars of significance - to me
1935 Ford 3 Window Coupe
1936 Ford 5 Window Coupe
1937 Chevrolet Sports Coupe
1955 Chevrolet Convertible
1959 Ford Fairlane Ranch Wagon
1960 Cadillac CDV
1972 Cadillac Eldorado Coupe

Dan LeBlanc

George

I've driven enough on back roads in NH to realize that the condition of your worst roads are better than our best roads here. NH roads are some of the best I've driven on
Dan LeBlanc
1977 Lincoln Continental Town Car

Roman_cadillac

#32
Hi all!

I went by the 1960 Cadillac for a couple of days when the weather was 5F degrees. By car installed bias tire(L78).

When I go on the road with ruts, my car keeps track badly after 40 mph.

What is the reason?

Camber, caster, toe adjusted.

Maybe it's normal for bias tire?

Car is in Russia. This car is not for every day)




Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621

You take the '60 out in 5 degree weather? In snow?  :o

Anyway, if the issue is temperature-related, chances are good the tires are the culprit.
A Cadillac Motorcar is a Possession for which there is no Acceptable Substitute

gkhashem

Quote from: Dan LeBlanc on January 20, 2018, 09:44:42 AM
George

I've driven enough on back roads in NH to realize that the condition of your worst roads are better than our best roads here. NH roads are some of the best I've driven on

Dan if you can believe it I am a NH native, and lived here over 90% of my life and the roads are worse than they used to be. But there are some neglected back roads where the winter has been very unkind to and these roads are difficult in spots to drive on even in the summer since the winter damage is still apparent on a road that has not been repaved recently.

That being said maybe I am spoiled since I find that even a 60 year old car is still a pleasure to drive even on bias tires. I drive my cars like savoring a fine wine, no guzzling here. Just a relaxing country stroll in the old girl.
1959 Oldsmobile 98 Holiday Sports Sedan
1960 Cadillac Coupe Deville (CLC Sr #72)
1964 Oldsmobile 98 Town Sedan (OCA 1st)
1970 GMC C1500
1977 Oldsmobile 98 Regency Coupe
1978 Cadillac Coupe Deville (CLC Sr Crown #959)*
1992 Oldsmobile 98 (OCA 1st)
1996 Oldsmobile 98
*CLC Past President's Preservation

Past Cadillacs
1959 Coupe Deville
1966 Coupe Deville (Sr #861)*
1991 Eldorado Biarritz (Sr #838)

MY 59

I just don't understand why you would use bias ply when there is a better and safer alternative.
Driving 'in a controlled manner' is fine, but what if something unforeseen occurs and you have to brake and/or swerve urgently?
Driving these old dears is a treat and radials for me made it ten times more enjoyable and safer

I believe bias ply are not up to task, for a car driven regularly at least
Why make driving these beauties unpleasant and a chore
David Bone :)

1959 Cadillac Sedan Deville
1967 (aussie) ZA ford Fairlane

Lexi

Why install a dual master cylinder? Why install disc brakes? Why install a new audio system? Why install an alternator? Why install seat belts? Why install a replacement drive train? Why install after-market rims? Why engage in any one of a number of resto-mod installations? Where does it end? Not saying that all of the above are uncalled for. Certainly a supportive argument can be made for reasons of safety for some of the above noted especially for cars that are driven regularly and/or under certain conditions. Conversely, for the few miles most of these cars are driven one could also question the need to do so (particularly for historic reasons in some cases for example). For some, the feeling that one gets when stepping back in time in an unmolested vehicle is as important. I would only add that by doing so that should never compromise not getting the vehicle regularly serviced and properly maintained. If I wanted a 'newer' car I would have bought one! Clay/Lexi

gkhashem

Quote from: MY 59 on January 20, 2018, 07:21:24 PM
I just don't understand why you would use bias ply when there is a better and safer alternative.
Driving 'in a controlled manner' is fine, but what if something unforeseen occurs and you have to brake and/or swerve urgently?
Driving these old dears is a treat and radials for me made it ten times more enjoyable and safer

I believe bias ply are not up to task, for a car driven regularly at least
Why make driving these beauties unpleasant and a chore

Because it is not unpleasant or a chore for me. Not sure what your talking about? Maybe this says more about those frame off restorations and worn out old cars.

I guess when you have an unrestored, original, and well maintained car (most likely since day 1) it drives nice and tight.

I have a 1966 Coupe Deville with radials and believe me if I have to swerve its still going to be an issue. The radials are not that much better. I can tell this is a 52 year old car and some tires are not going to change reality that much.
1959 Oldsmobile 98 Holiday Sports Sedan
1960 Cadillac Coupe Deville (CLC Sr #72)
1964 Oldsmobile 98 Town Sedan (OCA 1st)
1970 GMC C1500
1977 Oldsmobile 98 Regency Coupe
1978 Cadillac Coupe Deville (CLC Sr Crown #959)*
1992 Oldsmobile 98 (OCA 1st)
1996 Oldsmobile 98
*CLC Past President's Preservation

Past Cadillacs
1959 Coupe Deville
1966 Coupe Deville (Sr #861)*
1991 Eldorado Biarritz (Sr #838)

gkhashem

#38
Well said , if I want a new car why bother with an old one.

That's the pleasure stepping back in time and experiencing what it was like in the day. Even better with a nice low mileage original, imagine how it felt driving a new car off the lot.

I am fortunate that I have 9 vehicles in that category and I refuse to buy anything else.

If the car is well maintained, shocks, suspension etc maybe it would drive better. Wonder how many cars out there are just maintained good enough. That's fine if that's all you can afford but a worn suspension is not helping your handling either.

Plus here is an article I posted before.  Many "experts" here have shrugged it off, but my opinion and yours are based on what?  This paper seem fairly professional so I imagine it has more merit than our opinions. Just because we have not experienced any issue does not mean it cannot happen.

https://www.sema.org/files/attachments/WTC-2011-05-Bias-vs-Radial-Tire-Wheel-Fitment.pdf

It is from SEMA, maybe they want to sell new rims? But seems fairly technical.

Radials have an advantage in wet road driving and wear. Well my old cars do not go out in the rain and since I drive a car about 500 miles a year wear is not an issue. So we are down to safety, well you better check your rims for stress to make sure they are safe if you are mounting radials on rims designed for bias tires.
1959 Oldsmobile 98 Holiday Sports Sedan
1960 Cadillac Coupe Deville (CLC Sr #72)
1964 Oldsmobile 98 Town Sedan (OCA 1st)
1970 GMC C1500
1977 Oldsmobile 98 Regency Coupe
1978 Cadillac Coupe Deville (CLC Sr Crown #959)*
1992 Oldsmobile 98 (OCA 1st)
1996 Oldsmobile 98
*CLC Past President's Preservation

Past Cadillacs
1959 Coupe Deville
1966 Coupe Deville (Sr #861)*
1991 Eldorado Biarritz (Sr #838)

Lexi

An informative article. Thanks for posting that link George. I think that when one considers how many tires a vintage car may have been fitted with over the years, various types of rim wear may be of great importance. For those who have ever watched a shop 'clean' the bead portion of the rim prior to installing a new tire (often with a power wire wheel); I can only imagine the wear that must have been generated over the years thereby perhaps further compromising the integrity of the rim. I imagine this is what the author was referring to when he noted that the number of "cycles" that the rim has experienced, as being another factor of consideration, (along with some older rims not being designed to accept the stress of a radial tire). Clay/Lexi