News:

Due to a technical issue, some recently uploaded pictures have been lost. We are investigating why this happened but the issue has been resolved so that future uploads should be safe.  You can also Modify your post (MORE...) and re-upload the pictures in your post.

Main Menu

Brake nightmare with a 1959 Deville

Started by pfriesen, September 08, 2017, 01:35:04 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Dan LeBlanc

Glad to hear you got it sorted.  As for the old shoes . . . hang them on a wall as a reminder to what a bad shop can cause.  Shipping used shoes (especially from here in Canada to anywhere in the world - not sure why Canada Post is so expensive) will far outweigh the cost of new shoes for someone else.

Drum brakes on all four corners are not as evil as some make them out to be.  When set up correctly, they perform well.
Dan LeBlanc
1977 Lincoln Continental Town Car

Jeff Rosansky CLC #28373

#21
Paul,
First of all, glad you got it fixed
But being new to the forum, I am also happy you took the time to post a resolution. Many times we see problems and then the poster disappears and we don't know what happened..... so thank you.
You say you are not a mechanic--why not?
You obviously have interest in the car. Even if you don't do the work yourself, read the manuals. I think you will find them interesting. If you have questions, ask them here. Believe me, I have asked some doozies.
And lastly, congrats on having a wife who loves the car. That is HUGE.
Jeff
Jeff Rosansky
CLC #28373
1970 Coupe DeVille (Big Red)
1955 Series 62 (Baby Blue)
Dad's new 1979 Coupe DeVille

pfriesen

Appreciate that, Jeff.

I have perused the manual, and find the way these old cars were put together fascinating. Imagine the cost of building something like that with all those machined metal parts today?

But I'm a words guy. A writer. Whenever I try something mechanical I tend to screw it up. I do have oil changes down pat, and I was successful in replacing a taillight not long ago :)

As for my wife, yeah, that's a terrific story, and one I didn't fully explain. Her grandfather (Gigi, in Ukrainian, hence the license plate) was a big personality who wanted the flashiest car around. So in '61 he bought the Cadillac. In '73 a fire broke out in the engine compartment on Easter Sunday. Firefighters sprayed the engine and, I'm told, seized it. The car was a write-off.

A family friend went with my wife's father to the public auction to buy it, some time later. $400, I believe (we have the paperwork). The family friend then bought a wrecked '59 with very similar mileage and transplanted the power plant into this '59. It's a 390 with one difference: originally this car had the Eldorado engine option -- three, two-barrel carburetors with some added horsepower. But the donor car had a basic 390 with a single, four-barrel carb.

So while our car isn't "numbers-matching," it comes with a great family story. That family friend owned the car for 35 years and put 8,000 miles on it. In 2009, fighting some health issues, he asked us if we wanted to buy it, returning it to the family.

We've put maybe 4,000 miles on it, since. It's still at less than 60,000. Original interior, seats, carpets, dash, all in good condition. Re-painted once, in the 1980s. Showing its age a little, but we like it that way. We will repaint it some day, but we're not touching the interior. It smells like it should.

I sometimes wonder if we should consider restoring it to the 3 carburetor 390. We have those old carbs, but I'm not sure about the top manifold (if that's the right term). Can those carbs be easily rebuilt? The original engine block is gone.

Sorry to ramble on here. Some of you, I'm sure, will enjoy it. For me, it's always about the story behind the car.

I will stay in touch here. Cheers.

Paul



1959 Cadillac Sedan Devillle
1966 Oldsmobile Ninety Eight
1970 Oldsmobile Cutlass convertible

Roger Zimmermann

Everything can be rebuild, it's just a matter of resources...Carbs alone will not be enough: you will need the specific intake manifold, air cleaner, a different distributor, a vacuum canister and other details. Be prepared to spend a large amount of money for something which, in my opinion, is of a relative utility.
1956 Sedan de Ville (sold)
1956 Eldorado Biarritz
1957 Eldorado Brougham (sold)
1972 Coupe de Ville
2011 DTS
CLCMRC benefactor #101

DeVille68

Hi Paul,

I was following your thread since it started. Nice that you solved the problem!

Quote from: pfriesen on September 13, 2017, 01:50:29 AM
All great suggestions and appreciated advice. I can't check some of those things because, A) I'm not a mechanic and B) the car was been in the shop.

Why not? As your case has shown, an interested Car-Guy might be successful than a "modern" shop!

I am also not a mechanic, I have studied mechanical engineering. I do all my work myself. It takes some time, I do make mistakes. But I know what I did and what I didn't! And on top of that I have this fantastic forum and have found friends I would not have otherwise found!

There is nothing more rewarding than being able to fix things yourself. (check out my thread in the restoration corner if you like)
Glad you own a Cadillac.

Best regards,
Nicolas
1968 Cadillac DeVille Convertible (silver pine green)

pfriesen

I hear what you're saying, Nicolas. I have experienced that satisfaction by wrenching on my motorcycle, stumbling my way through with the help of a Triumph forum and YouTube videos. Without a hoist and some serious tools, though, working on a big car is a little more of a challenge.

I do plan to try a few more things myself, though. More tinkering than major work. I will check out your thread.

Speaking of tinkering, I also asked this new mechanic to check out the carburetor. It had two issues that may or may not have been related: 1) the choke/fast idle didn't work when first starting the car, and 2) when the car sat for more than one week we had to prime it to start it: remove the air cleaner and pour some gas into the carb.

The mechanic told me the choke linkage was on wrong and bent, so he said he fixed that. I've been away for work the last few days, so when I tried to start the car yesterday for the first time in several days, (a cool day of maybe 50F), I thought I'd try the age-old method I use on other vintage cars: one pump of the accelerator (to set the choke) and turn the key. It wouldn't fire.

I tried cranking it over several more times, then started pumping the gas, still no luck. At this point I feared I'd flooded it, although I didn't smell much in the way of gas. My wife and I were in a hurry to get somewhere, so we took the truck instead.

I have some time tomorrow to investigate this further. My question (and maybe I should have started a new thread) is: how do you other '59 and similar owners start your Cadillacs? What is your procedure, and do you know what may have caused my carb needing to be primed after the car sat idle for more than a week?

Paul (hope I'm not becoming a pain)
1959 Cadillac Sedan Devillle
1966 Oldsmobile Ninety Eight
1970 Oldsmobile Cutlass convertible

TJ Hopland

Chokes can be a bit tricky to get right.  It often takes several cold starts to get them tweaked just right so I would not give up on this mechanic for this type of work yet.   If it wasn't practical for him to keep the car several days this should be a simple thing someone else can explain to you how to tweak.   It could also be there is a deeper problem with the carb that someone else was trying to mask by getting creative with the choke and your new guy could find it given the time to investigate. 
StPaul/Mpls, MN USA

73 Eldo convert w/FiTech EFI
80 Eldo Diesel
90 CDV
And other assorted stuff I keep buying for some reason

pfriesen

Update: it started perfectly the next time I tried it, the choke and fast idle were operating nicely. Not so perfect yesterday.

If things are set up properly for a vehicle like this, what is a typical start-up procedure: one pump of the pedal, then start? Two pumps? Several pumps, even as you're cranking the engine? I'm always concerned about flooding,  but maybe I shouldn't be.

We have two other vintage vehicles that are much less temperamental. Our '70 Olds Cutlass, for instance, starts every time with one pump of the gas. The fast idle and choke are on, you immediately tap the pedal to release the idle down a notch, then tap it again when it's warmed up.

Wish the Caddy were that simple.

Paul
1959 Cadillac Sedan Devillle
1966 Oldsmobile Ninety Eight
1970 Oldsmobile Cutlass convertible

savemy67

Hello Paul,

My '67 Sedan DeVille is equipped with a Rochester Quadrajet carburetor.  My starting procedure is to fully press the accelerator pedal one time, and crank the ignition.  My car starts on fast idle.  After 15 or so seconds, I tap the pedal a second time, and the idle goes to the next step on the fast idle cam.  After a couple of minutes, the thermostatic choke has warmed sufficiently to be fully disengaged, and a subsequent tap of the accelerator pedal puts the car at curb idle.

I think your '59 came with a Carter AFB, which I think is more like a Rochester 4GC than a Quadrajet.  However, all carburetors have to do the same general function.  I believe the AFB on the '59 used a thermostatic choke.  Since your mechanic noticed that the choke linkage was not connected properly, and you have to prime the carburetor if the car sits for a week or more (indicating a leak from the fuel bowl), you may want to consider rebuilding the carburetor (either by yourself or a competent shop).  While not overly complex, if you have never rebuilt a carburetor, you may want to farm this job out, or buy another AFB and "practice" on the spare carburetor.  Since carburetors are rather precise pieces of equipment, care must be taken to make all the adjustments as specified in the manuals.  You should also not overlook things like warped air-horns, worn out throttle shaft bushings, and the selectionof the correct gaskets from the many available in a rebuild kit.  The attention to precision and detail is what separates the excellent rebuilder from the average rebuilder.  Your mileage may vary :)

Respectfully submitted,
Christopher Winter
Christopher Winter
1967 Sedan DeVille hardtop

pfriesen

You are correct, Christopher. It is a Carter AFB. The low mileage on the car has me hopeful the carburetor doesn't need a rebuild. If it does, based on my previous posts you can probably guess I wouldn't undertake that myself :).

I will continue to monitor the starting. Friday it's going back to the transmission shop to address a leak. The same place that took the tranny out to address major leaking two months ago. (Sigh) It never seems to end.

But it's worth it :)

Thanks.

Paul
1959 Cadillac Sedan Devillle
1966 Oldsmobile Ninety Eight
1970 Oldsmobile Cutlass convertible

TJ Hopland

One thing I noticed about the AFB vs the Q jet is at least some of the AFB's seem to have an extra high fast idle that apparently you are not meant to stay on.   Basically once the engine starts you are to tap the gas once to drop it to a normal fast idle setting.    I tried to make it work like a Q jet and it just never started right.   I don't remember if I read about that extra high step or if someone told me about it but as soon as I set it that way it seemed to start much better.    I think that first step ends up at something like 1500 rpm.   No idea if they all had that or if it was just the model I was working on.     Mine was in the era where GM was using a lot of both AFB and 4GC's.
StPaul/Mpls, MN USA

73 Eldo convert w/FiTech EFI
80 Eldo Diesel
90 CDV
And other assorted stuff I keep buying for some reason