Cadillac & LaSalle Club Discussion Forum

Cadillac & LaSalle Club Forums => General Discussion => Topic started by: Rich S on January 15, 2013, 07:32:37 PM

Title: 2014 Cadillac ELR shown at NAIAS today
Post by: Rich S on January 15, 2013, 07:32:37 PM
Today at the North American International Auto Show in Detroit, Cadillac unveiled the production version of the 2014 Cadillac ELR Coupe--a hybrid model. Here is an overview:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PqoTXNkXdBs

This vehicle is styled like the Concept Car called the Cadillac Converj. The powertrain is derivative from the Chevrolet Volt but has a regeneration-on-demand feature, similar to down-shifting, when slowing the car.
Title: Re: 2014 Cadillac ELR shown at NAIAS today
Post by: "Cadillac Kid" Greg Surfas 15364 on January 16, 2013, 12:04:51 AM
They were originally talking about a power train that was going to be FAR SUPERIOR to the Volt.  Now we have a "pretty' $70,000.00 Volt.  I certainly hope Cadillac does a bit more by release time.
Greg
Title: Re: 2014 Cadillac ELR shown at NAIAS today
Post by: The Tassie Devil(le) on January 16, 2013, 12:21:38 AM
And the presenter was sure trying to get the heads of GM to agree that it was just a tarted-up Volt.

Time for a longer floor pan so that extra batteries can be carried, as this would make it different to the Volt.   No substitute for more Cubes, sorry, Volts.

Bruce. >:D
Title: Re: 2014 Cadillac ELR shown at NAIAS today
Post by: Guidematic on January 17, 2013, 12:05:47 PM

I'm not convinced that any variation of the EV will ever make an impact in the car market. There are too many compromises, and the cost is still far out of line.

That price they gave was with a $7,500 credit. So, imagine if the gov't eliminated that credit, you could conceivably have a $90,000 ELR.

But looking at it from another angle, it is still far less expensive than the electric only Tesla.

Mike
Title: Re: 2014 Cadillac ELR shown at NAIAS today
Post by: "Cadillac Kid" Greg Surfas 15364 on January 17, 2013, 11:32:03 PM
This car will be competing with the Tesla (I believe it is a model) S, which claims a 250 mile range with 0-60 performance of about 4.5 seconds and a "Supercharger" which can give you a full charge in less than 1/2 hour.
If Cadillac doesn't get this right before it is actually released, I fear the Marque will only further diminish in the eyes of the public.
Greg
Title: Re: 2014 Cadillac ELR shown at NAIAS today
Post by: Mike Josephic CLC #3877 on January 18, 2013, 12:27:10 AM
I would not want to be sitting on a pile of lithium ion batteries -- in any car regardless who makes it.  Despite the claims that they are "safe" and cannot catch on fire I don't believe it.  In an accident
you would be toast, despite what GM claims. 

Witness the new Boeing 777 "Dreamliner", which is now grounded by the FAA.  That's due to
a number of incidents of fires breaking out in the bays below the passenger area which hold
similar type batteries.  The "old" technology in previous planes deployed a wind driven turbine
generator from the underside of the plane that provided enough power to run all of the essential electronics.

Cadillac is ready to start selling another clone of a cheaper design with fancy trim -- do you
remember the Cimarron?  You would think they learned a lesson from that.

Mike
Title: Re: 2014 Cadillac ELR shown at NAIAS today
Post by: The Tassie Devil(le) on January 18, 2013, 12:32:59 AM
Plus, don't forget the Escalade, which in itself was just a tarted-up Chevrolet.

Bruce. >:D
Title: Re: 2014 Cadillac ELR shown at NAIAS today
Post by: Chris Cummings on January 18, 2013, 11:24:25 AM
But don't forget how much Escalade contributed to Cadillac sales (and hence, its survival as a marque).

Badge engineering is a tricky game, and hard to get right.

Chris Cummings
20072
Title: Re: 2014 Cadillac ELR shown at NAIAS today
Post by: "Cadillac Kid" Greg Surfas 15364 on January 18, 2013, 12:18:00 PM
IMHO, Paying more than twice the price of a Volt for a Volt with a different skin and a few additional bells and whistles would not bode well for the intelligence of the purchaser.  Again, just my thoughts.
Greg Surfas
Title: Re: 2014 Cadillac ELR shown at NAIAS today
Post by: Gene Beaird on January 18, 2013, 02:05:17 PM
Quote from: Mike Josephic  CLC #3877 on January 18, 2013, 12:27:10 AM
<SNIP>

Witness the new Boeing 777 "Dreamliner", which is now grounded by the FAA.  That's due to
a number of incidents of fires breaking out in the bays below the passenger area which hold
similar type batteries.  The "old" technology in previous planes deployed a wind driven turbine
generator from the underside of the plane that provided enough power to run all of the essential electronics.

Cadillac is ready to start selling another clone of a cheaper design with fancy trim -- do you
remember the Cimarron?  You would think they learned a lesson from that.

Mike

That's '787 Dreamliner', and luckily, if the car did start smoking, it's not quite the same chore of finding a place to 'put 'er down' than it would be in a 787.   ;D
Title: Re: 2014 Cadillac ELR shown at NAIAS today
Post by: Chris Conklin on January 18, 2013, 08:20:28 PM
I would think that leveraging some GM tech to get a high MPG car into the line-up is the goal here. They need to make up ground for their fleet average mileage and impending regulations/requirements. Helps them to keep selling those trucks and "V" performance variants. And doing it before the other luxury marquees.
Title: Re: 2014 Cadillac ELR shown at NAIAS today
Post by: R Schroeder on January 18, 2013, 08:53:59 PM
$90,000.00 at 16.9 % interest would give me $15,200.00 bucks a year for gas. I don't think anybody spends that on gas. Just not into gas / electric cars I guess.


Roy
Title: Re: 2014 Cadillac ELR shown at NAIAS today
Post by: The Tassie Devil(le) on January 18, 2013, 09:07:45 PM
Plus, for the Greenies, don't forget about the amount of pollution that is created making the thing, and then think about the cost of replacing the batteries at the end of their life-span, and the cost of recycling the old ones.

Plus, the car that gets traded in for the new one, will take amounts of energy to eventually recycle that.

I know we need to create employment, but the makers need to create different things to make us feel like we NEED to replace something that is not as new.

People forget about things like that.

Bruce. >:D

Title: Re: 2014 Cadillac ELR shown at NAIAS today
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on January 19, 2013, 03:59:59 AM
Quote from: Roy Schroeder on January 18, 2013, 08:53:59 PM
$90,000.00 at 16.9 % interest would give me $15,200.00 bucks a year for gas. I don't think anybody spends that on gas. Just not into gas / electric cars I guess.


Roy
If you like, I will lend you that amount for just 5%! I don't know where you found a 16.9% interest...

The suggestion that Cadillac need that kind of vehicle because of CAFE makes sense. It was also the reason why they came with diesel engines...
Title: Re: 2014 Cadillac ELR shown at NAIAS today
Post by: R Schroeder on January 19, 2013, 06:02:53 AM
Roger , I play the stock market, and one of the stocks I own is AGNC. Bought it at $29.65 per share. It pays out 5 bucks a share in a dividend. At that buy price , I get 16.9 % interest / dividend per year. If stock price goes up, I also get the gain. It is also in a IRA , so I don't pay taxes on it until I draw it out.
It is one of 14 different companies that I am in.
Roy

http://finance.yahoo.com/q?s=AGNC
Title: Re: 2014 Cadillac ELR shown at NAIAS today
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on January 19, 2013, 06:41:58 AM
Interesting dividend! Unfortunately (or fortunately), not available from here. I used to "play" more or less the same game; loose some, did some gains. I'm now selling what I bought 2 or 3 years ago when the stock value was low. The best deal I did was with gold. Kept it some years and sold at 100% profit!
Title: Re: 2014 Cadillac ELR shown at NAIAS today
Post by: Jeff Wilk on January 19, 2013, 07:01:03 AM
Sorry guys but if anyone is following the electric car market you will see that the Tesla S has them all beat hands down.   Technology, style, function, and price.  GM should buy them out and slap a Cadillac crest on them and look like geniuses instead of playing their cimmaron/volt game here. IMO

Jeff
Title: Re: 2014 Cadillac ELR shown at NAIAS today
Post by: David King (kz78hy) on January 19, 2013, 10:54:51 AM
The ELR should be a very fine car.  I have a Volt and it is hands down the best car I have ever owned.  It has the highest owner satisfaction numbers in Consumer Reports of people wanting to buy again.

The cost is high and even with that, GM is losing money on them.  Lots of technology in those cars and that Caddy is one I would love to have someday.

The  other electrics are cool to look at, but it will be interesting to watch how they do.  All of the others together do not equal the  number of Volts delivered and in service. 

The GM Voltec system is very safe and probably over engineered.  At least least they are not catching fire in the garage like the Fiskers are.

My 2 cents.

David King
Title: Re: 2014 Cadillac ELR shown at NAIAS today
Post by: R Schroeder on January 19, 2013, 07:19:08 PM
I drove my buddies new Ford Fusion Hybrid. That is gas electric too.
The only thing I didn't like was when you hit 35 mph the engine would start. If you slowed down it would stop.
I don't know if it was suppose to be like that, but 35 wasn't the speed you wanted to travel at.
Roy
Title: Re: 2014 Cadillac ELR shown at NAIAS today
Post by: The Tassie Devil(le) on January 19, 2013, 07:27:25 PM
Sounds like when driving one of these new electric things, one has to change their driving style.

If that is the case, I will stay with Petrol (which I intend to do right from the start)   The only electrical thing I need in my cars is the capacity to operate the Starter Motor.   Oh, and the rest of the gadgets.

Bruce. >:D
Title: Re: 2014 Cadillac ELR shown at NAIAS today
Post by: David King (kz78hy) on January 19, 2013, 10:51:46 PM
The Volt system is different than a Hybrid one.  You can not tell if the engine is running or all electric as the engine only comes on to charge the battery.  The battery is always powering the drive train.  The drive train is electric, so the engine just recharges the big battery, and that powers the wheels.

I drive 80 mph to work everyday (when Detroit traffic allows), and depending on temperature, the battery gets me there by itself, or the engine comes on for a portion of the trip once the battery goes below its low limit.  My one way trip is 40 miles.  In the cold weather now, my all electric range is 28 miles, then the engine has to come on and charge the battery to power the wheels.  While driving, the only way to notice the engine is charging is a change on the dash to show that now you are running on gas instead of the battery.  The system is seamless and the calibrations are very, very good.  The car is quite and so smooth.

Believe it or not, this is state of the art stuff.  If Cadillac had a global dealer network in place, the Volt would have been a Cadillac from the start.

David
Title: Re: 2014 Cadillac ELR shown at NAIAS today
Post by: Louis Smith on January 19, 2013, 10:54:01 PM
   Very nice video and presentation, but obviously it was scripted.  Actually nothing more then a long commercial.  When is the last time an automobile manufacturer introduced a new product, without saying all good things about the product.
   As a consumer, I would be more interested in how much my driving habits would have to change, because of the new technology.  When an individual opts for a diesel car, they have to plan out their trips, and make sure they are going to be near diesel fuel.  Speaking for myself, I will stick with a gas engine, with its more then 100 years of dependability behind it.
        On the plus side it is a very nice looking car.  I only question it being a coupe.  Why not a sedan?
Title: Re: 2014 Cadillac ELR shown at NAIAS today
Post by: The Tassie Devil(le) on January 19, 2013, 11:04:58 PM
A Sedan would result in more people in it, meaning more internal mass, creating less distance being travelled (for free) and therefore more complaints.

Bruce. >:D
Title: Re: 2014 Cadillac ELR shown at NAIAS today
Post by: David King (kz78hy) on January 19, 2013, 11:06:53 PM
Louis,

Since the gas engine charges the battery, your driving range is 300 miles or so.  You drive the car just like any other.  I did 600 mile round trip over Christmas and it blew my accumulated mileage down to to the 130/gallon from 180/gallon.  I bought the car with 1200 miles on it.  When the fuel is low, you fill up at the gas/fuel station just like the vehicle you drive today.  If the car has navigation on it, it will show you the closest fueling stations to you regardless of where you are at and tell you how to get there.

My driving habits have not been altered from the cars I owned before and in 12500 miles, I've used 100 gallons of gas.

David
Title: Re: 2014 Cadillac ELR shown at NAIAS today
Post by: Rick Payton on January 21, 2013, 09:22:05 AM
I agree with David the volt is an amazing car!! We love ours and I have already put myself on the list to get an ELR which in no way is a re-badged volt... 4 door vs 2 door and way more style.... I guess it is hard to please everyone. I have a feeling the majority of the people complaining about the ELR or the Volt would never buy one anyway... I will and have bought one and love it so maybe GM is doing something right... ::)
Title: Re: 2014 Cadillac ELR shown at NAIAS today
Post by: "Cadillac Kid" Greg Surfas 15364 on January 21, 2013, 12:02:16 PM
Rick,
I don't think the purpose of this thread has anything to do with the Chevrolet Volt, but rather the (just announced) Cadillac ELR.  It was originally announced that the Cadillac would b e "based on" the Volt Architecture, with an upgraded power unit and battery pack for performance which was hinted at being equivalent to the Tesla.  The disappointment expressed (or at least mine anyhow) is that the promise for an "upgrade" doesn't seem to be forthcoming.  At near 80K it is priced at just about the Tesla's newest model with much less performance.  Electric cars ARE the future for urban transportation.
Greg Surfas
Title: Re: 2014 Cadillac ELR shown at NAIAS today
Post by: R Schroeder on January 21, 2013, 03:35:58 PM
I think the only reason to buy one of these cars, either the Volt , or the Cadillac is because you want one. Thats all.
As far as saving money its a lost cause. Price of the car eats up any savings on gas prices. I also believe when you go to trade it in, your going to loose again. People are not going to buy a 8 year old electric car that has no warranty on the battery. They are expensive.
Just cant see any savings to the person who buys it.
Is the Caddy nice looking . Sure , but expensive.
But if you got the money , what the keck.
Roy
Title: Re: 2014 Cadillac ELR shown at NAIAS today
Post by: Louis Smith on January 21, 2013, 08:48:01 PM
   Allow me to make a few more non judgmental thoughts and opinions on this new type of vehicle. 

   The technology for electric vehicles goes back to the early 30's.  By the mid 50's electric golf carts gained wide acceptance.  The technology for practical electric vehicles has been around for at least 60 years.  We started experiencing “gas shortages” in the mid 70's, 40 years ago.  Now all of a sudden, there is a rush to judgment to save the planet with electric cars.

   I am as green thinking as anyone.  I recycle, take my used oil to redemption sites, properly dispose of batteries etc.  It is my sincere hope that we could eventually have electric vehicles, that give us the same dependability and practicality of present day internal combustion engines.  I don't think using a Cadillac is the way to go for experimentation.  I remember a time when Oldsmobile was the “canary in the cave” for Cadillac.  i.e. the 1966 Oldsmobile Tornado, with front wheel drive,  first out of the gate.  This was followed by the 1967 front wheel drive Eldorado.

   Not trying to be political, but, like all new technology, its going to take the rich to accept these cars to bring down the price to the point that the average American can afford one.  I seriously think that those of means of going to be buying either the Volt or the ELR in any great numbers.  I think most people still purchase automobiles out of necessity and pleasure.  Since they are the second biggest expense most of us have, I don't many people are going to spend much more then they can afford.  Of course someone just purchased the original Batmobile for more then $4,000,000.  Go figure.