All good things must end as the saying goes and after decades of receiving the Self Starter in near perfect condition, they've been arriving completely mangled lately, this month being the worst. Subscribing first class mail too.
Can anything be done?
Can I get a replacement?
I just hate that.
I've contacted Mike Book for a replacement.
Very irritating. >:(
I have asked before about enclosing the issue in a plastic bag. I get my Buick Club and Pontiac Oakland-GMC club in a bag. I have been told this would cost too much. Well my dues is very similar in those clubs. I cannot remember if my Oldsmobile Club of America is in a bag also, it may be.
I think it is ironic that the club of the car that is the Standard of the World is mailed without a plastic protector, while other clubs protect their mailings.
However the office is very good in mailing out a replacement if needed.
AACA magazine also sent in a clear wrapper.
My Self Starter comes in a clear wrapper.
Bruce. >:D
How'd you manage that? :o
Dunno, maybe it is because I am in Australia, and maybe all overseas mail has to come wrapped in something?
Or, maybe I am special? ;)
Bruce. >:D
PS. Mine is mailed from Jamaica, NY.
Quote from: Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621 on October 02, 2017, 04:19:51 PM
All good things must end as the saying goes and after decades of receiving the Self Starter in near perfect condition, they've been arriving completely mangled lately, this month being the worst. Subscribing first class mail too.
Can anything be done?
Can I get a replacement?
Mine too! Last 3 months
Mine always comes pristine in a white envelope mailed from within Canada. :P
Quote from: Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621 on October 02, 2017, 07:36:17 PM
AACA magazine also sent in a clear wrapper.
Yes I forgot about that one.
Perhaps it's less expensive to mail it nekkid and replace damaged ones on an as needed basis.
Mine arrives ok.
Still waiting for Greg's article about his modified Cadillac............
Take it to the supervisor of your post office and complain. Maybe they can figure out how it happens and fix the problem.
Mine came today and is in perfect condition, even coming all the way out to the middle of the Pacific.
Correction, there is a smug on the front cover.
Quote from: The Tassie Devil(le) on October 02, 2017, 08:45:41 PM
Dunno, maybe it is because I am in Australia, and maybe all overseas mail has to come wrapped in something?
Or, maybe I am special? ;)
Bruce. >:D
PS. Mine is mailed from Jamaica, NY.
I think customs require everything to be wrapped.
Mine is coming with damage last few months.
A plastic wrapper is a must.
Brian
Quote from: Glen on October 03, 2017, 01:58:54 AM
Take it to the supervisor of your post office and complain. Maybe they can figure out how it happens and fix the problem.
The problem is upstream from the local PO.
mine was perfect for 40 years last year or so crushed ??
If you want a wrapper, you're going to have to pay for it in one way or the other. Reduced content to the tune of about four pages or increased dues. Do you honestly think that our editors don't keep track of things like that? They work with the same parameters that the other clubs such as the BCA do. They want to give you guys the best and all you do is complain and point to other publications that may or may not have the same amount of content as ours. Which would you rather have? As many pages as possible, or a nice wrapper you throw away?
Please give them some credit. How would you like to have the same problem each and every month (except Nov/Dec) staring you in the face to try to keep the members happy? In my computer room, right to my left as I'm typing this, are nine issues of the S/S that arrived in pristine shape, and I expect another one today. If yours comes messed up, complain to your postmaster.
They also juggle a weight problem when we attach an extra page front and back on the cover so that you get applications for meets and such without having to mess up your magazine. It's a lot more complicated than simply putting the mag in a bag.
Ever have a PAYCHECK get chewed up in the mail? I did. This is just a car club magazine!!!
Quote from: Walter Youshock on October 03, 2017, 11:31:39 AM
Ever have a PAYCHECK get chewed up in the mail? I did. This is just a car club magazine!!!
Ever hear of direct deposit? This one can be solved very easily if you do!!!!!!!!!!
And the Self Starter is available online. ALWAYS fresh and uncreased....
That's true and if you would like the digital version only your dues is $35.00 per year.
Eric has paid for first class mail and the post office is treating first class mail like junk mail.
He did pay an extra $20.00 for first class mail, so I fail to see your point on this one? If he wanted it online, he would pay the lower dues.
I think we get a great value for what we pay and I would not mind paying an extra $20.00 a year for dues. In today's world I cannot even go out for a nice dinner for $20.00
An excerpt from the CLC membership application.
Annual Membership Dues the self-starter/Directory Delivery Options
1 yr. 2 yrs. 3 yrs.
UNITED STATES First-Class Mail/Printed Directory optional plus the self-starter Online $55 $109 $163
Periodical Mail/Printed Directory optional 40 79 118
USA AND WORLDWIDE the self-starter and Directory Online Only, no printed magazine & Directory 35 65 90
The 1957 catalog is online too. If your original hard copy was crushed, would it matter to you?
Not on one side or the other, but how is this not a post office question? What responsibility do they have?
Is it that the (open) pages get caught up in their machines?
Perhaps three easy to remove peel & stick stickers on each of the three open sides to keep the pages "closed" during the mailing process?
I didn't like my magazine style mail getting folded to fit in the post box so I made my own, with a wide mouth to accept the un-folded versions.
Even the spiders like it.
Sorry there isn't a Cadillac in the picture, but it was parked some distance behind it.
Bruce. >:D
PS. Like a lot of things, some things we cannot control.
My Self Starter seems to survive delivery each month, but here's what some 1941 Cadillac new car documents I found on eBay looked like after my mailman crammed them in my mailbox. How come he couldn't have mis-delivered them to my neighbor on the other street's less full mailbox like he usually does with my other mail?
Quote from: Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621 on October 03, 2017, 08:43:44 AM
The problem is upstream from the local PO.
That may be true, but your first contact is your post office supervisor. If that does not work then write to your local postmaster. Keep going up the chain of command. The way your mail is arriving is not acceptable. If it happens once, well things happen. But for it to arrive like that repeatedly is not (or at least should not be) acceptable to the post office. Be sure to show them all the ones that came mangled so they understand it is not a one off.
Barry
No one is blaming the editors here. We are blaming the post office. Clearly something has changed.
I have gotten the SS for years with no damaged. Now every month I get mine and it looks like it gets caught up in a machine.
A already pay more for first class delivery and would gladly pay a little more for the plastic wrap.
Somehow the weekly junk mail in a loose assortment of crap gets to me unscathed but the SS gets beat up for the last few months.
Plastic wrap would end that.
Brian
Quote from: gkhashem on October 03, 2017, 07:33:48 PM
I think we get a great value for what we pay and I would not mind paying an extra $20.00 a year for dues
$20?? Not taking sides here but the argument about how costly it would be has little substance. I just did a quick search on eBay and the best deal I found was just $6 for 100 plastic mailing pouches. On that reckoning, each member's dues would rise just a few cents.
Quote from: 49er on October 04, 2017, 07:11:44 AM
George, you can still go to Burger King. 18.50 for 2 and you dont have to leave a tip. A real bargain !!
Art at my age I cannot eat that stuff without getting some heartburn!
Only to be young again and eat anything I desire in any quantity. That and buy any nice car I see too. My wants are very simple at this age.
This issue comes up occasionally with the Publications Committee and yes, it's the Postal Service mangling the mail. I've been a CLC member over 23 years and can count on one hand the number of mangled issues I've received in Colorado.
The cost? Our printer quotes us $700 per month extra if all magazines are sent out in plastic bags. That equates to $7,700 per year extra your club would have to spend. The CLC Office gets a supply of about 25 issues each month that can be mailed as replacements. I can guarantee the postage spent mailing out replacement issues is far less than $7,700 per year. Foreign members get their magazines in bags and envelopes due to postal requirements in other countries. The Buick Club of America has an anonymous donor that pays for the bags on their magazine.
Good news - if you subscribe Periodical Class to The Self-Starter and you requested that a print copy of the membership directory be sent to you, both the November-December issue and the directory will be inserted into a plastic bag, as both must go together for the largest possible postal discount. First Class members will receive the print directory (if they opted in) and their magazine separate, as the directory must be sent as bulk rate.
Tim
And we now know the......rest of the story!
8)
Quote from: Art Director on October 07, 2017, 05:05:46 AM
Our printer quotes us $700 per month extra if all magazines are sent out in plastic bags. That equates to $7,700 per year extra your club would have to spend. The CLC Office gets a supply of about 25 issues each month that can be mailed as replacements. I can guarantee the postage spent mailing out replacement issues is far less than $7,700 per year.
If total CLC membership is 7,700, the increase in membership dues would equate to
$1 per member per year to cover the cost of bagging the magazine. Just a thought.
This just arrived in my mailbox and I'd have to say about half come this way or worse. I'm not complaining nor do I want a replacement because I think I pay the periodical dues rate, I can still read and enjoy each issue, and I don't save them. But I DO find it odd that all the other junk catalogs that come regularly are 100% pristine. What up with that?
I think you will find that the junk mail is locally delivered by non-postal employees.
Bruce . >:D
Quote from: The Tassie Devil(le) on October 10, 2017, 06:18:32 PM
I think you will find that the junk mail is locally delivered by non-postal employees.
Bruce . >:D
I think the point is that the local PO is not the culprit therefore little to be gained by complaining to them.
Point 2: $1 per year per member seems a relative bargain for 10 or 11 issues to be wrapped. I'd happily pay 10x that for the Self Starter to arrive in excellent condition consistently.
As I said in reply #26 above. The local PO is first contact. Take it up the chain.
Quote from: Glen on October 11, 2017, 01:26:31 AM
As I said in reply #26 above. The local PO is first contact. Take it up the chain.
::)
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OK so you don’t really want to solve the problem.
The solution has been proffered.
The issue is being confused here.
Under many poster's responses in this thread, any comments or suggestions are taken as a petty complaint.
I think many need to remember the CLC is running a type of "business". This business provides a service to it's "customers". The customers are it's members. The customer's concerns should always be welcome as long as they are presented with respect. The volunteers have a responsibility to listen in a respectful manner in an attempt to resolve or explain the issues involved. Volunteers are commendable, but they are also responsible when things do not go right and try to make it right.
So both parties have a duty to act in a civilized manner for the good of the CLC and to leave petty issues out of it.
I think the bigger picture here is a very important one for the future health and viability of the CLC. Many members only contact with the CLC is the Self Starter. So the magazine is a very important piece of that membership. In a nutshell it is the face of the CLC to the vast majority of the membership. Sorry it's not the musuem, it's not the GN, and it's not this forum.
The situation is a valid issue, Eric was looking for a solution.
I would say getting a mangled issue is not putting the best face forward to the membership. It is irrelevant whose fault it is. It is obviously the USPS machinery, so how can we solve it. A poly bag, now the issue is do you want to pay for it.
I would, maybe just bag the 1st class mailing and charge us an extra $5.00 a year. But not knowing this is possible I would defer to the Board.
I guess the question should be how many members have this problem. I have been a member since 1983, I cannot recall the last time I received a damaged Self Starter. Maybe 5 to 10 years ago. I do get first class service that probably accounts for that. But again, how many members get damaged Self Starters on a regular basis? I can’t see making the club spend $700 a month because one tenth of one percent of the members received damaged Self Starters.
To me the solution is for the members that have a problem to complain to the PO and get the problem fixed. I have had run-ins with the PO and found them to be helpful to the extent of their position. When the supervisor cannot fix the problem, take it up a level. I went from the supervisor to the city postmaster, to the region postmaster before I got results. I was ready to go to the Postmaster General of the United States if necessary.
To not work with the people of the PO, and make flip remarks is not going to fix anything.
Being that the Self Starter is already being wrapped when destined for foreign countries, perhaps something similar can be done for first class subscribers- with an appropriate dues increase.
None of this is intended to impugn the efforts in any way of the many hardworking and dedicated CLC members who selflessly & tirelessly devote their time and energy to making the CLC what it is. Merely suggesting a possible option for first class subscribers which is one of reasons for paying extra for first class delivery in the first place.
It should be stressed that nobody is expecting the CLC to absorb any extra costs associated with bagging the magazine; nobody is asking something for nothing and I would be more than happy to pay the extra cost and I'm certain many others feel the same. So instead of $50.00/year for first class subscribers, perhaps $55.00 or $60.00 with bagging automatically included with all first class subscriptions.
Unless my calculations are off, this may even yield extra revenue to the CLC.
In light of this, I think it a proposal at least worth considering.
This topic comes up frequently in meetings of the Publications Committee and because it affects a very small percentage of the total number of members, we feel it's not fair to the vast majority of members to add on the cost of plastic bags when it's not necessary. As several posters pointed out, it is a problem with the Postal Service and it's likely the magazines get mangled in the bulk mail facility near where you live.
I'm also a member of the Buick Club, and that organization has an anonymous donor that pays for the bags for its magazine. The CLC does not have a Daddy Warbucks, so that's why we take extra caution to not add costs when they are not necessary. We dispensed with printing the separate election ballot booklet several years ago and now include it with the sheets that wrap around your magazine. That move saved the CLC about $3,000 a year. For what it's worth, AARP does not bag their publications and that magazine circulates well into the millions.
I will bring this topic up again with the chair of the Publications Committee and find out if it's time we start bagging. If you opted in to receive the CLC Directory in print form and you subscribe to The Self-Starter at the Periodical Class rate, both the Directory and your November-December issue will be bagged, as both publications must be mailed together for the best postage rate.
Tim
Tim...that is all I ask and will gladly accept the outcome, regardless of whatever it may be.
Also worth noting is that not everybody experiencing this issue is necessarily reporting it so the question as to the percentage of members having the problem might not be as small as one might suppose.
For what it's worth Ive brought this up I think 3 times. Im a VCCA (Vintage Chevy) and AACA member also and I believe that the CLC Self Starter paper stock is too lightweight which is what causes routine postal damage during mailing. At this point I only shrug it off , iron out the wrinkles and then enjoy what I call my Cadillac magazine printed on KIA paper. Oh and yes.....we do have fairly regular problems with mangled mail too BUT I've never received a bad VCCA or AACA monthly magazine which are both shipped in plastic bags and at a lower cost.
Jeff W
I have here and there around the house, many stacks and file cabinets full of Self Starters. Since 1964 I have received very, very few damaged copies. Less than a dozen, if that. That's 53 years, or 583 issues. I haven't had any "special" way of getting them except VIA the USPS. Tim has mentioned to us twice that this subject is usually covered at meetings of the Publication Committee. Why don't we trust these people to do their job and talk about something else for a while?
If I had to guess, I would say that both clubs mentioned in the last post have well over the amount of members that we presently have. There are a lot more Chevies in this world than Cadillacs and AACA covers the entire spectrum of antique cars. That could make the difference in being able to bag and have a lower subscription rate. Re: AACA: They only publish six times per year. Want to do that? I could almost guarantee we'd go to bagging. The VCCA has over 8,000 members. If we had that many, perhaps we too could afford bagging.
If you get a damaged copy, ask the office for a replacement. That is the only way we will get concrete evidence that we may or may not need a change in our delivery process.
Barry I appreciate your perspective and all the work that goes into the magazine as well as what the publication committee does. But lets be careful about broadbrushing an issue. If some members report problems and others do not it does not mean that one is right and one is wrong and we should stop discussing it. Im curious how many members of the CLC actually use The Forum and would even see this topic here? How many of the non forum user members have received mangled copies? How many of them just accept it and move on as Ive come to do. Let me be clear the magazine itself and the content and the quality of photos and timeliness is OUTSTANDING, so regardless of the condition I get it in every third month or so does not really matter all that much other than being frustrating.
I know there is a CLC budget and I know that means BIG choices each and every month. I for one would rather see $$$$ spent on the forum as it is now so that we have a great site where it is easy to post pictures ON THE SITE itself. As an example with one of the ither clubs I referenced, they choose to spend more on bagging the magazine but NOT on their Chat site and as a result members must host their own photos on other sites and then go through a wringer of steps to even link to the other site so other members can see the post. This is horrendous. ( our own webmaster Peter is now running that site too so maybe he can find an economical solution for them). Again its just about making choices that have the most benefit. I get it.
So, lets simply keep the discussion fresh as it is real for those who get mangled copies and I submit that this number is larger than we may know of ( perhaps a survey would help). Keep the Self Starter coming....kudos to all that do the tireless work to make it of such rich and useful content. Thanks again.
Stepping off the soapbox now to make room for others.....Jeff W
Bag it.
Probably an extra dime per issue.
Mine has been damaged the last three months in a row.
I keep them and recently bought all of Bob Hoffmans issues going back to number 1.
The Toronado club has very few members and mails out a bi monthly that comes in a bag.
Somehow on a much lower budget they get it done.
Brian
Just curious. How many members does the CLC have?
No one seems to address charging 1st class mailings for a bag and maybe charge us a few dollars a year more?
If you look back over page 2 you will see that has been covered (see below)
Quote.
Our printer quotes us $700 per month extra if all magazines are sent out in plastic bags. That equates to $7,700 per year extra your club would have to spend. The CLC Office gets a supply of about 25 issues each month that can be mailed as replacements. I can guarantee the postage spent mailing out replacement issues is far less than $7,700 per year.
Unquote.
Quote.
If total CLC membership is 7,700, the increase in membership dues would equate to $1 per member per year to cover the cost of bagging the magazine. Just a thought.
Quote from: Barry M Wheeler #2189 on October 14, 2017, 07:31:04 PM
If I had to guess, I would say that both clubs mentioned in the last post have well over the amount of members that we presently have. There are a lot more Chevies in this world than Cadillacs and AACA covers the entire spectrum of antique cars. That could make the difference in being able to bag and have a lower subscription rate. Re: AACA: They only publish six times per year. Want to do that? I could almost guarantee we'd go to bagging. The VCCA has over 8,000 members. If we had that many, perhaps we too could afford bagging.
Not really Barry stated we do not have that many members. Also if everyone does not want to pay, make the 1st class choice pay maybe.
The clubs own website states there are over 7000 members.
Thank you for informing me and correcting the membership issue that made it sound like the CLC has no where near the members these other clubs do.
The $7,700 estimate for bagging was for 11 issues of The Self-Starter each year, not the number of members in the CLC. Membership stood at 6,403 at the end of June, according to the Board Meeting Highlights article printed in the October issue of The Self-Starter. We have a marketing person on board and are trying several programs to increase the numbers.
I have contacted our printer to get a quote for bagging just the First-Class issues and will report back to you once I hear from them. Bagging would occur only for members in foreign countries (already happening) and U.S. members that pay $55 each year for their membership. At this time, there would be no bagging for magazines sent via Periodical Class, the $40/year membership level. The CLC does listen to its members. However, if we do add bagging, it just means a dues increase will occur more quickly than we want to impose it. The last dues increase was in 2014, which was the first increase since 2003.
I want to stress that there is no guarantee that bagging the magazines will prevent any issues from being damaged in the mail, but it should reduce this occurrence.
Tim
Great news Tim. Sounds like a promising solution.
We received a quote from the printer. To bag each First-Class issue (there are 1,200 mailed each month) would cost the CLC approximately 33 cents extra per issue per month. That extrapolates to $318 per month and $3,500 per year for 11 issues. Twenty-one of those cents is the extra ounce the magazine would weigh because of the bag, and that goes to the Postal Service.
I have counted eight members in this thread who have receive damaged magazines. The postage to take care of those eight members by sending them their magazine in an envelope from the CLC Office or elsewhere would run $2.03 to $2.45 per month, or less than $300 per year. A big difference from $3,500. And some of those members having their issues replaced likely subscribe as Periodical Class.
This problem affects an extremely small percentage of our membership. The Publications Committee will discuss this at their next meeting in March, and it will be discussed in the board meeting following, but your club cannot justify a huge expense like this at this time. We ask that you continue to notify the CLC Office of damaged magazines, and the Books will provide data to the Publications Committee so a responsible decision can be reached.
I also have gotten damaged issues when living in New York State,Georgia and now Florida. I have just lumped it but I can say that it certainly is annoying. I do not wish to see increases so perhaps one solution would be for the Club to offer to replace any damaged issue to a Member who alerts the Club to it. One Mans Opinion
"... one solution would be for the Club to offer to replace any damaged issue to a Member who alerts the Club to it."
This is already club policy.
Bill, simply call our business office and they will send you a fresh copy.
Thank You Gentlemen will do.