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1941 Model 6723

Started by Andrew Armitage, June 07, 2011, 03:29:14 PM

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Andrew Armitage

Hello everyone!  I'm a new forum member and a new member of the CLC.  I just picked up a '41 Cadillac Model 6723 (67 series with the jumps seats / no division window) from St Louis on June 1st.  It's a nice, solid, complete car that runs and drives but needs a little cleaning up, some elbow grease and some TLC.  The car appears to be mostly original with the exception of the interior which was redone previous to the previous owner.  If it wasn't for the fact that the upholsterer did such a nice job, I'd probably return it to original.  But for now, that's pretty close to the last of the things to do on the list.  This is my first Cadillac and I'm already learning quite a bit as I go along.

The mechanicals need some sorting out and for now, I'm going to leave the cosmetics alone.  The paint looks like it might be original or possibly a repaint many many years ago and the chrome has seen better days.  I guess it all adds to the patina of the car.  From 20 feet away, it looks fantastic!

I'll be keeping everything as original as possible and returning anything that has been modified back to original standards.

I figured that I'd post my progress as I go along and maybe I can help out someone else down the road who may be able to learn from my attempts and mistakes.  I'm sure I will need some help and or input from members here that are willing to help.  Otherwise, it's always fun to be able to watch a project take shape.

Andrew Armitage
Plainfield, IL
Andrew Armitage
Plainfield, IL
1941 67 Series
1966 Fleetwood 75 Series
1985 Seville
1991 Eldorado

Andrew Armitage

#1
Once I got my "new" car home, I felt it was necessary to dive into it immediately.

I immediately changed the oil and put in some fresh 15W-40 Classic Car Motor Oil.

I've ordered new belts and a shop manual along with some new BF Goodrich WWW bias ply tires.  The tires on the car are probably over 15 years old, if not older.  I'm also planning on replacing all the rubber coolant and heater hoses.

Then I had to completely rearrange my garage so that the Cadillac didn't prevent me from entering my garage from my house as there was only a few inches between the door and the bumper.

Once it was in place, I decided to get down to business.  First order was replacing belts, hoses, and getting the cooling system in order as the engine would run hot when going over 50 mph for any length of time.

My plan was to first pull the water pump as it was slightly leaking.  One thing led to another and after I drained the coolant, I pulled off all the old tired radiator hoses, removed the petcock from the engine block along with the plug on the driver's side, removed and threw out the old belts, pulled the water pump, fan assembly, and then pulled the radiator too (with the help of a friend) because at that point, there were only four bolts holding it it.

Once all that was out of the way, I flushed the engine block with a garden hose and a flexable gutter drain that I picked up from the local ACE for $5.

I took the radiator in to Lake Zurich Radiator & A/C to have it inspected and flow tested as they specialize in working on vintage radiators.  The owner, Jim could see right away that the passages that could be seen from the top of the radiator neck were either partially or completely blocked.  I left it with him so that he can work his magic on it.

I'm sending my water pump to The Flying Dutchman in OR to be rebuilt.

I was able to find replacements for the radiator and heater hoses at the local Napa parts store.

Now I'm just waiting for everything to get back from the specialists so that I can put it all back together before I forgot how I took it apart!


Andrew Armitage
Plainfield, IL
1941 67 Series
1966 Fleetwood 75 Series
1985 Seville
1991 Eldorado

Andrew Armitage

#2
I got the radiator back from being recored.  But before I put it back in the car I took a quick look at the wiring harness that goes up and around the radiator frame and quickly realized that it was in worse shape than I thought.  I can't even believe any of the headlights work!  I taped the wiring up as best that I could.
The insulation was disintegrating in my hands, leaving bare wires.  I really don't like the way it looks.  I'll be ordering a new main wiring harness very soon, hopefully before I have an engine fire! As it stands now, I just don't have turn signals or the over head interior light operational.  

Wiith some help from a friend, I was able to get the radiator back in the car.  Now I'm just waiting on the water pump.

My new tires came in and I'm trying to decide weather or not to paint the wheels before I have the new tires mounted... And should I paint them red or black?  I think I might go with the red, to give the car some color.

I can't wait to hear it run again!
Andrew Armitage
Plainfield, IL
1941 67 Series
1966 Fleetwood 75 Series
1985 Seville
1991 Eldorado

Paul Tesone

Good start ! Keep those photos coming . The Restoration blog is read and enjoyed by many of us even though you may not get many responses . Paul Tesone CLC #6876

robert G. smits

I second Paul,s comments.  I am redoing the mechanical's on my 41 series 63.   It started with a brake problem and one thing led to another.  If you need advice just ask.  I can't believe how much expertise there is out there and how willing people are to help.  Bob Smits
R. Smits, #2426
23 Cad 7P Touring
32 Cad 5P Coupe
38 Cad 90 Series
41 Cad 63 Series
58 Cad Eldo Barritz
The average man can take care of one Woman and two Cadillacs, Al Edmond AACA Past President

Andrew Armitage

Thanks fellas!  I'll keep the pictures coming.

Can anyone tell me if any '41 Cadillacs had anything other than the painted woodgrain dash and window frames.  Somewhere along the line, a previous owner reupholstered the car in an un-original fashion and it looks like they polished the paint off the dash and window frames.  They did such a good job of it that there is nothing left anywhere that would clue me in as to what was there originally.  The dash looks like aluminum and the window frames are chrome.  I have to probably pull a lot of stuff out of the dash to get at all the wiring when I redo the main harness (if this project hasn't bankrupted me by then!).  That might be the time to have that dash repainted properly.  I just want to make sure that I'm having it redone right.

Here are pictures of what I have in there now.
Andrew Armitage
Plainfield, IL
1941 67 Series
1966 Fleetwood 75 Series
1985 Seville
1991 Eldorado

Paul Tesone

 Andrew - Before you do ANY cosmetic restoration , get yourself an authenticity manual from the club . If the 1941 manual is anything like the manuals I have for my 37,47 and 57 it will be worth every penny . Go to the CLC home page , click on store , click on authenticty manuals , then find the manual for your 41 . It is listed as Class 11 and costs $50.00 . As far as your dash is concerned , I struggled with the same issue just a short time ago while restoring my 37 convertible ( still in progress ) . I had to restore the center portion in "olive burl " wood grain . I wasn't real happy with some of the hand painted dashes I saw coming back to the shop where my car was  - they all seemed so dark . Then I found out about a company called Hydro Dip . You can google them and see a video of the restoration process and see samples of the wood grains available . They did my dash and window surrounds and I couldn't be happier . They worked very hard to meet my requests . Go to my posts on the restoration blog ( 1937 6049 series ) to see some photos . I just put in some new ones about an hour ago . Call ( 781-593-1154 ) or email me ( tess352@yahoo.com ) if you have any questions about the Hydro Dip process . As for other questions about mechanics , etc ; I'm only a novice , and there are plenty of other members who can help you if you post the questions . If you end up calling or using Hydro Dip , ask for Scott and tell him that I haven't forgotten about sending him some final photos; and let me know if you had a positive experience .Good luck . Paul Tesone CLC #6876

harry s

Andrew,  For a non authentic interior, I think it looks good. My '41 6733 (divider window/jump seats) has the dash painted black and chrome window frames in the driver compartment. The rear compartment has a medium brown, straight grain pattern on the window frames and a burl woodgrain on the garnish below the frame.  The 6719 (5 pass sedan) parts car has a woodgrain dash and the same pattern for all windows as described in the limo rear compartment. Hope this helps. Harry Scott (4195)
Harry Scott 4195
1941 6733
1948 6267X
2011 DTS Platinum

Andrew Armitage

I wound up pulling the radiator out again and modifying the mounting holes.  I just didn't like the way it was sitting in the cradle.  It appeared to be about a 1/4 inch too high and the thermostat bolts prevented the radiator from fitting into the cradle properly.  I spoke with the shop that redid my radiator and my options were to bring it back to them (over an hour drive) each way (2 times - drop off and pick up) so they could remove the mounting straps on the sides and reweld them 1/4 inch higher on the radiator or I could bring it back to them and they would redrill the holes or I could redrill the holes myself.

I opted to redrill the holes myself.  As much as I hated doing it, it was the quickest and easiest way to get this project done.  So I measured and drilled new holes.  I'm much happier with the way the radiator sits in the cradle now.

Still waiting on my water pump to be returned.
Andrew Armitage
Plainfield, IL
1941 67 Series
1966 Fleetwood 75 Series
1985 Seville
1991 Eldorado

Andrew Armitage

I ordered up some new www tires to replace the 20+ year old tires on the car now.  I'm bringing them in to a local restoration shop to strip the wheels and have them powder coated before I put the new rubber on.  I really like the red wheel option...  Does anyone know a paint code for a modern car that matches the original red for the wheels?  Otherwise, I'm gonna have to eye-ball it.  Also, are the wheels gloss or satin finish?
Andrew Armitage
Plainfield, IL
1941 67 Series
1966 Fleetwood 75 Series
1985 Seville
1991 Eldorado

Andrew Armitage

Also got the water pump back a few days ago from Flying Dutchman Water Pumps and installed it, using a thin layer of copper coat to make sure it was nice and sealed.

I recieved my belts from Allcad.com but found that my generator was binding up when I tried to spin it by hand.  I was so close to getting it running again!  I also found that the regulator that was on the car was not the proper application so I switched it out with an NOS Delco unit.  (Yes, I remembered to jump the connections to properly polarize it).

I was going to drive the car over for it's new tires but I just pulled them off here at my house and took them over so the shop  can get started on them while I wait for my generator.  I wish I had more space to work!

Hopefully I can get her back on the road in another week or two.  (fingers crossed!)
Andrew Armitage
Plainfield, IL
1941 67 Series
1966 Fleetwood 75 Series
1985 Seville
1991 Eldorado

Andrew Armitage

Quote from: harry s on June 19, 2011, 10:20:41 AM
Andrew,  For a non authentic interior, I think it looks good. My '41 6733 (divider window/jump seats) has the dash painted black and chrome window frames in the driver compartment. The rear compartment has a medium brown, straight grain pattern on the window frames and a burl woodgrain on the garnish below the frame.  The 6719 (5 pass sedan) parts car has a woodgrain dash and the same pattern for all windows as described in the limo rear compartment. Hope this helps. Harry Scott (4195)

Harry, yes, this does help.  Thank you.
Andrew Armitage
Plainfield, IL
1941 67 Series
1966 Fleetwood 75 Series
1985 Seville
1991 Eldorado

Andrew Armitage

Quote from: Paul Tesone on June 18, 2011, 01:50:07 PM
Andrew - Before you do ANY cosmetic restoration , get yourself an authenticity manual from the club . If the 1941 manual is anything like the manuals I have for my 37,47 and 57 it will be worth every penny . Paul Tesone CLC #6876

Thanks Paul, I'm going to order one of those manuals.
Andrew Armitage
Plainfield, IL
1941 67 Series
1966 Fleetwood 75 Series
1985 Seville
1991 Eldorado

Paul Tesone

Andrew - I received your email requesting information about the red color I used on my 47 wheels . I don't have a return email address as your message came thru with a CLC personal email address . I did attempt to send you an email this morning , but I'm not sure you received it .So I'm responding here . I have some good news and perhaps some confusing information for you . As you probably know by now , your black 1941 67 series is supposed to have one of three wheel colors : black , triton green or vincennes red . It seems that you are interested in the vincennes red . This is the color I used on my 47 wheels , so I'll tell you what I know .  First - this subject has come up on the Forum before and you can see the different responses by searching " vincennes red ". Barry Wheeler ( CLC #2189 ) has a 41 Caddy and he responded to this question saying that a 1960's Ford engine color is a good match for vincennes red . Doud Houston said that 1960 Ford Monte Carlo Red is a good match . They may be talking about the same color , I don't know . I was told by a local restorer who was doing his own 47 Caddy with vincennes red wheels that a good color match was Mercedes Signal Red . I actually saw his wheels and liked them , so I decided to go with the Mercedes Signal Red . Originally , I planned to have them painted , so I had my local paint supplier mix up a small batch of Concept Signal Red - code 71520 . At the last moment , I decided to power coat instead of paint . I took the Signal Red paint to the powder coater and matched it up against the samples he had from Tiger-RAL . These samples were small metal plates which had been power coated , so it was a true color I was looking at - not a photo . I found an almost exact match .The powder coater told me I picked Tiger-RAL 3003 . That's the plate I went with ; and the color on the wheels ended up being the exact color of the sample plate . That's the color you see in my post . Confused yet ? You will be if you're not already . Tonight , I googled " Tiger-RAL to look at their color charts for you . Much to my surprise , the chart shows #3003 to be a much deeper red than is on my wheels or was on the metal sample I chose . I think the powder coater used the color I wanted , but gave me an incorrect color chart number . So I'm not certain what Tiger - RAL number he actually used . All I can tell you is that the color did match the Mercedes Signal Red and he did use the color I picked even though he may have mislabeled the color code on my receipt . Google " Tiger-RAL "  and you can see the choices  for yourself . This may be all useless information for you since your email to me said your wheels were being powder coated on Monday . Perhaps, if you're uncertain about the color , you can postpone the powder coating until you can see some actual samples ( Tiger-RAL  will send samples to your powder coater if he doesn't have them already ), or until you contact Barry or Doug. Hope I haven't confused your decision . Let me know what happens , and by all means be certain to post a photo of the finished wheels . Good luck; the car looks like it will be beautiful once completed. Paul Tesone CLC #6876 .   

Andrew Armitage

Paul, thanks for the quick reply.  I apologize for not including my return email address in my coorespondance with you.

I actually had selected Signal Red, I believe it was the 3020 chip.  It was the only red that really looked like a true red and not leaning towards maroon or orange.  I'm going to take this as comfirmation that my guess was correct.

I'll post up the result with the color code after my wheels are done.
Andrew Armitage
Plainfield, IL
1941 67 Series
1966 Fleetwood 75 Series
1985 Seville
1991 Eldorado

Bill Hedge CLC 14424

Andrew:

Welcome to the club!  To give your car a proper "breaking in" I would suggest a short 98 mile drive down I80/94 to La Porte, Indiana.  There are 5 or 6 CLC people in the area who would like to see your car!

If not already a member, I would also suggest joining the West of the Lake (Chicago) region of the CLC.  If you are not already planning on attending, you should also give some consideration to attending the Grand National in Columbus, Ohio in August.

Lastly, I hope that I do not offend anyone since you have received excellent advice here, but if you have a technical question, you may want to consider posting the question in the "Technical Forum" since, as stated above, there are not as many members reading this forum as opposed to the Technical Forum.

Good luck on your car!

Bill Hedge
CLC # 14424


Andrew Armitage

Quote from: Bill Hedge CLC 14424 on July 12, 2011, 11:17:34 PM
Andrew:

Welcome to the club!  To give your car a proper "breaking in" I would suggest a short 98 mile drive down I80/94 to La Porte, Indiana.  There are 5 or 6 CLC people in the area who would like to see your car!

If not already a member, I would also suggest joining the West of the Lake (Chicago) region of the CLC.  If you are not already planning on attending, you should also give some consideration to attending the Grand National in Columbus, Ohio in August.

Lastly, I hope that I do not offend anyone since you have received excellent advice here, but if you have a technical question, you may want to consider posting the question in the "Technical Forum" since, as stated above, there are not as many members reading this forum as opposed to the Technical Forum.

Good luck on your car!

Bill Hedge
CLC # 14424

Bill,

Once my Caddy is up and running, I'd take a trip to La Porte if there was a nice show in the area or a local Cadillac Club meeting.  I'll have to keep my eyes open. 

I went to a show put on by the West of the Lake Chapter a couple weeks ago, minus my car, as I was waiting on my water pump and new belts.  I met some really nice people.  In fact, someone I met there helped me out with some information and a recommendation on where to have my generator rebuilt.  Unfortuneatly their meeting time conflicts with my schedule for about another month.  After that, I should be able to make it out to some meetings to participate.

I'd like to make it to the Grand National next month.  I've been working on my car like a full time job! Most recently, I had my generator rebuilt and it's waiting for me back home (I'm on a vacation in Ixtapa, Mexico for a few days) (and the fact that I'm thinking abut my Cadillac while on vacation is a whole other issue).  I need to bolt it back up and fire the Caddy up for the first time since the day after I brought it home!  Once my wheels are ready, hopefully soon after I return home, I'm gonna hit the road ASAP to test its roadworthyness.  I think I've sorted out the most serious issues facing the car.  The rest is just cosmetics and leaks.  I'm sure at the Nationals I can find more than a few qualified people who can assist me in figuring out how to remedy a few of the remaining bugs that I'd like to address.

Thanks for the tip.  I'll post up issues I'm having problems with in the technical section from here on out. So far, I've had all my questions answered right here.

I'd have to say that I get a lot of joy returning something so elegant back to its former glory.  I hope to do it justice!
Andrew Armitage
Plainfield, IL
1941 67 Series
1966 Fleetwood 75 Series
1985 Seville
1991 Eldorado

Andrew Armitage

Freshly powder coated wheels and new wide whites.  Ran me around $2,000 when it was all said and done.  Wheels were done in RAL 3020, Signal Red, if anyone's interested.

Got the car back on the ground and tried to start it up.  Ran real rough and died at idle.  Changed the cap and rotor and now it won't start at all.  It's too hot out there and I had to take a break.  I'll check to make sure the wires are all connected right again later this evening when the temps go down.

(that's my father in the picture helping me clean off the wheels before mounting them)

Andrew Armitage
Plainfield, IL
1941 67 Series
1966 Fleetwood 75 Series
1985 Seville
1991 Eldorado

1941-7523

That is funny I had an issue with a gentlemen on Youtube not far back about how he incorrectly identified a 1941 series 67. He thought it was a 75 and after a bit of discussion realized it was a 67. The point of my comment here is that he was just taking videos of old cars not necessarily ones that he owned. So long story short the 67 he filmed is yours. I can tell because it has a Missouri license plate on the front and the same interior. Anyway I can send you the link if you would like. Good luck with your project.

Matthew Gardner

Andrew Armitage

Matthew,

I actually saw the video when I was looking on youtube to see if I could find what an original interior looked like!  There's no mistaking it with that interior, it's one of a kind!

I'll need that luck.  It appears that I've got a problem with the distributor / ignition system now.  The cap and rotor were replaced with NOS Delco parts.  The spark plugs were replaced with NOS Delco M8s and gapped between .025 - .030.  The Voltage Regulator was also replaced with an NOS Delco unit (and was polarized once installed).   Now, the car won't start.  It'll turn over, but it's like there's no spark.  I'll probably need a bit of help with this one.

That and the carb is leaking gas pretty good.  Looks like over the years, it's been patched up with some misc. parts and springs that don't belong in an effort to keep her running.  I think it's borrowed time has run out.  I'm going to pull it and have it rebuilt before I have an engine fire.  I'm going to send it off to Daytona Parts. Inc. for a full restoration (www.daytonaparts.com).  I've heard good things about them.

So I guess, one thing at a time.
Andrew Armitage
Plainfield, IL
1941 67 Series
1966 Fleetwood 75 Series
1985 Seville
1991 Eldorado