Author Topic: Self Starter getting destroyed in mail.  (Read 1178 times)

Offline Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621

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Re: Self Starter getting destroyed in mail.
« Reply #40 on: October 12, 2017, 08:52:40 AM »
The solution has been proffered.
A Cadillac Motorcar is a Possession for Which There is no Acceptable Substitute

Offline gkhashem

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Re: Self Starter getting destroyed in mail.
« Reply #41 on: October 12, 2017, 11:43:54 AM »
The issue is being confused here.

Under many poster's responses in this thread, any comments or suggestions are taken as a petty complaint.

I think many need to remember the CLC is running a type of "business". This business provides a service to it's "customers". The customers are it's members. The customer's concerns should always be welcome as long as they are presented with respect. The volunteers have a responsibility to listen in a respectful manner in an attempt to resolve or explain the issues involved. Volunteers are commendable, but they are also responsible when things do not go right and try to make it right.

So both parties have a duty to act in a civilized manner for the good of the CLC and to leave petty issues out of it.

I think the bigger picture here is a very important one for the future health and viability of the CLC. Many members only contact with the CLC is the Self Starter.  So the magazine is a very important piece of that membership. In a nutshell it is the face of the CLC to the vast majority of the membership. Sorry it's not the musuem, it's not the GN, and it's not this forum.

The situation is a valid issue, Eric was looking for a solution.

I would say getting a mangled issue is not putting the best face forward to the membership. It is irrelevant whose fault it is. It is obviously the USPS machinery, so how can we solve it. A poly bag, now the issue is do you want to pay for it.

I would, maybe just bag the 1st class mailing and charge us an extra $5.00 a year. But not knowing this is possible I would defer to the Board.

1959 Cadillac Coupe Deville
1964 Oldsmobile 98 Town Sedan
1966 Cadillac Coupe Deville (Senior #861)
1970 GMC C/K 1500
1978 Cadillac Coupe Deville (Senior Crown #TBD)
1984 Oldsmobile Delta 88 Royal Brougham Coupe
1989 Buick Reatta
1991 Oldsmobile Toronado Trofeo (OCA 1st)
1991 Cadillac Eldorado Biarritz (Senior #838)

Offline Glen

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Re: Self Starter getting destroyed in mail.
« Reply #42 on: October 13, 2017, 02:14:14 AM »
I guess the question should be how many members have this problem.  I have been a member since 1983, I cannot recall the last time I received a damaged Self Starter.  Maybe 5 to 10 years ago.  I do get first class service that probably accounts for that.  But again, how many members get damaged Self Starters on a regular basis?  I canít see making the club spend $700 a month because one tenth of one percent of the members received damaged Self Starters. 
To me the solution is for the members that have a problem to complain to the PO and get the problem fixed.  I have had run-ins with the PO and found them to be helpful to the extent of their position.  When the supervisor cannot fix the problem, take it up a level.  I went from the supervisor to the city postmaster, to the region postmaster before I got results.  I was ready to go to the Postmaster General of the United States if necessary.   
To not work with the people of the PO, and make flip remarks is not going to fix anything. 
Glen Houlton CLC #727 
CLCMRC benefactor #104

Offline Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621

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Re: Self Starter getting destroyed in mail.
« Reply #43 on: October 13, 2017, 09:22:22 AM »

Being that the Self Starter is already being wrapped when destined for foreign countries, perhaps something similar can be done for first class subscribers- with an appropriate dues increase.

None of this is intended to impugn the efforts in any way of the many hardworking and dedicated CLC members who selflessly & tirelessly devote their time and energy to making the CLC what it is. Merely suggesting a possible option for first class subscribers which is one of reasons for paying extra for first class delivery in the first place.

It should be stressed that nobody is expecting the CLC to absorb any extra costs associated with bagging the magazine; nobody is asking something for nothing and I would be more than happy to pay the extra cost and I'm certain many others feel the same. So instead of $50.00/year for first class subscribers, perhaps $55.00 or $60.00 with bagging automatically included with all first class subscriptions.

Unless my calculations are off, this may even yield extra revenue to the CLC.

In light of this, I think it a proposal at least worth considering.

« Last Edit: October 13, 2017, 03:01:42 PM by Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621 »
A Cadillac Motorcar is a Possession for Which There is no Acceptable Substitute

Offline Art Director

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Re: Self Starter getting destroyed in mail.
« Reply #44 on: October 13, 2017, 09:32:02 PM »
This topic comes up frequently in meetings of the Publications Committee and because it affects a very small percentage of the total number of members, we feel it's not fair to the vast majority of members to add on the cost of plastic bags when it's not necessary. As several posters pointed out, it is a problem with the Postal Service and it's likely the magazines get mangled in the bulk mail facility near where you live.

I'm also a member of the Buick Club, and that organization has an anonymous donor that pays for the bags for its magazine. The CLC does not have a Daddy Warbucks, so that's why we take extra caution to not add costs when they are not necessary. We dispensed with printing the separate election ballot booklet several years ago and now include it with the sheets that wrap around your magazine. That move saved the CLC about $3,000 a year. For what it's worth, AARP does not bag their publications and that magazine circulates well into the millions.

I will bring this topic up again with the chair of the Publications Committee and find out if it's time we start bagging. If you opted in to receive the CLC Directory in print form and you subscribe to The Self-Starter at the Periodical Class rate, both the Directory and your November-December issue will be bagged, as both publications must be mailed together for the best postage rate.

Tim
Tim Coy
CLC Southwestern Regions Vice President
Art DirectoróThe Self-Starter, International Membership Directory
Life memberóRocky Mountain Region
CLCMRC Benefactor #102

1963 6329 Six-Window Sedan de Ville
1972 Fleetwood BroughamóRIP
1988 Sedan de VilleóRIP
2001 Eldorado ESCóRIP
2003 DeVille DTS

Offline Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621

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Re: Self Starter getting destroyed in mail.
« Reply #45 on: October 14, 2017, 09:07:06 AM »
Tim...that is all I ask and will gladly accept the outcome, regardless of whatever it may be.

Also worth noting is that not everybody experiencing this issue is necessarily reporting it so the question as to the percentage of members having the problem might not be as small as one might suppose.
A Cadillac Motorcar is a Possession for Which There is no Acceptable Substitute

Offline Jeff Wilk

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Re: Self Starter getting destroyed in mail.
« Reply #46 on: October 14, 2017, 02:37:02 PM »
For what it's worth Ive brought this up I think 3 times. Im a VCCA (Vintage Chevy) and AACA member also and I believe that the CLC Self Starter paper stock is too lightweight which is what causes routine postal damage during mailing. At this point I only shrug it off , iron out the wrinkles and then enjoy what I call my Cadillac magazine printed on KIA paper. Oh and yes.....we do have fairly regular problems with mangled mail too BUT I've never received a bad VCCA or AACA monthly magazine which are both shipped in plastic bags and at a lower cost. 

Jeff W
"Impossible Only Describes The Degree Of Difficulty" 

Central New Jersey

1959 Cadillac Fleetwood Sixty Special
1975 Eldorado Convertible (#12 made)
1976 Cadillac Mirage (factory authorized Pick-Up)
1933 Phaeton Chevrolet - "Baby Cadillac"
1933 Master Sedan Chevrolet - "Baby Cadillac"

SOLD
1958 Cadillac Sixty-Special
1958 Cadillac Sixty-Special
1958 Cadillac Sedan
1958 Cadillac Coupe Deville

Offline Barry M Wheeler #2189

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Re: Self Starter getting destroyed in mail.
« Reply #47 on: October 14, 2017, 06:31:04 PM »
I have here and there around the house, many stacks and file cabinets full of Self Starters. Since 1964 I have received very, very few damaged copies. Less than a dozen, if that. That's 53 years, or 583 issues. I haven't had any "special" way of getting them except VIA the USPS. Tim has mentioned to us twice that this subject is usually covered at meetings of the Publication Committee. Why don't we trust these people to do their job and talk about something else for a while?

If I had to guess, I would say that both clubs mentioned in the last post have well over the amount of members that we presently have. There are a lot more Chevies in this world than Cadillacs and AACA covers the entire spectrum of antique cars. That could make the difference in being able to bag and have a lower subscription rate. Re: AACA: They only publish six times per year. Want to do that? I could almost guarantee we'd go to bagging. The VCCA has over 8,000 members. If we had that many, perhaps we too could afford bagging.

If you get a damaged copy, ask the office for a replacement. That is the only way we will get concrete evidence that we may or may not need a change in our delivery process.

Barry M. Wheeler #2189
1981 Cadillac Seville
1979 Cadillac Fleetwood Brougham
2016 Cadillac ATS

Offline Jeff Wilk

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Re: Self Starter getting destroyed in mail.
« Reply #48 on: October 14, 2017, 09:29:25 PM »
Barry I appreciate your perspective and all the work that goes into the magazine as well as what the publication committee does. But lets be careful about broadbrushing an issue. If some members report problems and others do not it does not mean that one is right and one is wrong and we should stop discussing it. Im curious how many members of the CLC actually use The Forum and would even see this topic here?  How many of the non forum user members have received mangled copies?  How many of them just accept it and move on as Ive come to do. Let me be clear the magazine itself and the content and the quality of photos and timeliness is OUTSTANDING, so regardless of the condition I get it in every third month or so does not really matter all that much other than being frustrating.

I know there is a CLC budget and I know that means BIG choices each and every month. I for one would rather see $$$$ spent on the forum as it is now so that we have a great site where it is easy to post pictures ON THE SITE itself. As an example with one of the ither clubs I referenced, they choose to spend more on bagging the magazine but NOT on their Chat site and as a result members must host their own photos on other sites and then go through a wringer of steps to even link to the other site so other members can see the post. This is horrendous. ( our own webmaster Peter is now running that site too so maybe he can find an economical solution for them). Again its just about making choices that have the most benefit. I get it.

So, lets simply keep the discussion  fresh as it is real for those who get mangled copies and I submit that this number is larger than we may know of ( perhaps a survey would help). Keep the Self Starter coming....kudos to all that do the tireless work to make it of such rich and useful content. Thanks again.

Stepping off the soapbox now to make room for others.....Jeff W
"Impossible Only Describes The Degree Of Difficulty" 

Central New Jersey

1959 Cadillac Fleetwood Sixty Special
1975 Eldorado Convertible (#12 made)
1976 Cadillac Mirage (factory authorized Pick-Up)
1933 Phaeton Chevrolet - "Baby Cadillac"
1933 Master Sedan Chevrolet - "Baby Cadillac"

SOLD
1958 Cadillac Sixty-Special
1958 Cadillac Sixty-Special
1958 Cadillac Sedan
1958 Cadillac Coupe Deville

Offline 76eldo

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Re: Self Starter getting destroyed in mail.
« Reply #49 on: October 15, 2017, 11:23:47 AM »
Bag it.
Probably an extra dime per issue.
Mine has been damaged the last three months in a row.
I keep them and recently bought all of Bob Hoffmans issues going back to number 1.
The Toronado club has very few members and mails out a bi monthly that comes in a bag.
Somehow on a much lower budget they get it done.

Brian
Brian Rachlin
Huntingdon Valley, Pa
CLC # 22443

I prefer email's not PM's   rachlin@comcast.net

1960 62 Series convert with factory Tri Power
1960 Eldorado Seville
1970 DeVille convert
1976 Eldorado convert
1980 Eldorado Hess & Eisrnhardt convert
1981 Eldorado Hess & Eisenhardt convert
1985 Eldorado Biarritz convertible
2007 DTS
2012 CTS Coupe
2017 CT5

Offline gkhashem

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Re: Self Starter getting destroyed in mail.
« Reply #50 on: October 15, 2017, 11:51:19 AM »
Just curious. How many members does the CLC have?

No one seems to address charging 1st class mailings for a bag and maybe charge us a few dollars a year more? 
1959 Cadillac Coupe Deville
1964 Oldsmobile 98 Town Sedan
1966 Cadillac Coupe Deville (Senior #861)
1970 GMC C/K 1500
1978 Cadillac Coupe Deville (Senior Crown #TBD)
1984 Oldsmobile Delta 88 Royal Brougham Coupe
1989 Buick Reatta
1991 Oldsmobile Toronado Trofeo (OCA 1st)
1991 Cadillac Eldorado Biarritz (Senior #838)

Offline Steve Passmore

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Re: Self Starter getting destroyed in mail.
« Reply #51 on: October 15, 2017, 12:55:56 PM »
If you look back over page 2 you will see that has been covered (see below)

Quote.
    Our printer quotes us $700 per month extra if all magazines are sent out in plastic bags. That equates to $7,700 per year extra your club would have to spend. The CLC Office gets a supply of about 25 issues each month that can be mailed as replacements. I can guarantee the postage spent mailing out replacement issues is far less than $7,700 per year.
Unquote.


Quote.
If total CLC membership is 7,700, the increase in membership dues would equate to $1 per member per year to cover the cost of bagging the magazine. Just a thought.
Steve

Offline gkhashem

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Re: Self Starter getting destroyed in mail.
« Reply #52 on: October 15, 2017, 01:18:42 PM »

If I had to guess, I would say that both clubs mentioned in the last post have well over the amount of members that we presently have. There are a lot more Chevies in this world than Cadillacs and AACA covers the entire spectrum of antique cars. That could make the difference in being able to bag and have a lower subscription rate. Re: AACA: They only publish six times per year. Want to do that? I could almost guarantee we'd go to bagging. The VCCA has over 8,000 members. If we had that many, perhaps we too could afford bagging.


Not really Barry stated we do not have that many members.  Also if everyone does not want to pay, make the 1st class choice pay maybe.
1959 Cadillac Coupe Deville
1964 Oldsmobile 98 Town Sedan
1966 Cadillac Coupe Deville (Senior #861)
1970 GMC C/K 1500
1978 Cadillac Coupe Deville (Senior Crown #TBD)
1984 Oldsmobile Delta 88 Royal Brougham Coupe
1989 Buick Reatta
1991 Oldsmobile Toronado Trofeo (OCA 1st)
1991 Cadillac Eldorado Biarritz (Senior #838)

Offline Steve Passmore

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Re: Self Starter getting destroyed in mail.
« Reply #53 on: October 15, 2017, 02:45:17 PM »
The clubs own website states there are over 7000 members.
Steve

Offline gkhashem

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Re: Self Starter getting destroyed in mail.
« Reply #54 on: October 15, 2017, 03:23:26 PM »
Thank you for informing me and correcting the membership issue that made it sound like the CLC has no where near the members these other clubs do.
1959 Cadillac Coupe Deville
1964 Oldsmobile 98 Town Sedan
1966 Cadillac Coupe Deville (Senior #861)
1970 GMC C/K 1500
1978 Cadillac Coupe Deville (Senior Crown #TBD)
1984 Oldsmobile Delta 88 Royal Brougham Coupe
1989 Buick Reatta
1991 Oldsmobile Toronado Trofeo (OCA 1st)
1991 Cadillac Eldorado Biarritz (Senior #838)

Offline Art Director

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Re: Self Starter getting destroyed in mail.
« Reply #55 on: October 16, 2017, 12:48:46 PM »
The $7,700 estimate for bagging was for 11 issues of The Self-Starter each year, not the number of members in the CLC. Membership stood at 6,403 at the end of June, according to the Board Meeting Highlights article printed in the October issue of The Self-Starter. We have a marketing person on board and are trying several programs to increase the numbers.

I have contacted our printer to get a quote for bagging just the First-Class issues and will report back to you once I hear from them. Bagging would occur only for members in foreign countries (already happening) and U.S. members that pay $55 each year for their membership. At this time, there would be no bagging for magazines sent via Periodical Class, the $40/year membership level. The CLC does listen to its members. However, if we do add bagging, it just means a dues increase will occur more quickly than we want to impose it. The last dues increase was in 2014, which was the first increase since 2003.

I want to stress that there is no guarantee that bagging the magazines will prevent any issues from being damaged in the mail, but it should reduce this occurrence.

Tim
Tim Coy
CLC Southwestern Regions Vice President
Art DirectoróThe Self-Starter, International Membership Directory
Life memberóRocky Mountain Region
CLCMRC Benefactor #102

1963 6329 Six-Window Sedan de Ville
1972 Fleetwood BroughamóRIP
1988 Sedan de VilleóRIP
2001 Eldorado ESCóRIP
2003 DeVille DTS

Offline Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621

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Re: Self Starter getting destroyed in mail.
« Reply #56 on: October 16, 2017, 01:35:33 PM »
Great news Tim. Sounds like a promising solution.
A Cadillac Motorcar is a Possession for Which There is no Acceptable Substitute

Offline Art Director

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Re: Self Starter getting destroyed in mail.
« Reply #57 on: October 17, 2017, 10:47:36 AM »
We received a quote from the printer. To bag each First-Class issue (there are 1,200 mailed each month) would cost the CLC approximately 33 cents extra per issue per month. That extrapolates to $318 per month and $3,500 per year for 11 issues. Twenty-one of those cents is the extra ounce the magazine would weigh because of the bag, and that goes to the Postal Service.

I have counted eight members in this thread who have receive damaged magazines. The postage to take care of those eight members by sending them their magazine in an envelope from the CLC Office or elsewhere would run $2.03 to $2.45 per month, or less than $300 per year. A big difference from $3,500. And some of those members having their issues replaced likely subscribe as Periodical Class.

This problem affects an extremely small percentage of our membership. The Publications Committee will discuss this at their next meeting in March, and it will be discussed in the board meeting following, but your club cannot justify a huge expense like this at this time. We ask that you continue to notify the CLC Office of damaged magazines, and the Books will provide data to the Publications Committee so a responsible decision can be reached.
Tim Coy
CLC Southwestern Regions Vice President
Art DirectoróThe Self-Starter, International Membership Directory
Life memberóRocky Mountain Region
CLCMRC Benefactor #102

1963 6329 Six-Window Sedan de Ville
1972 Fleetwood BroughamóRIP
1988 Sedan de VilleóRIP
2001 Eldorado ESCóRIP
2003 DeVille DTS

Offline Bill Young

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Re: Self Starter getting destroyed in mail.
« Reply #58 on: October 17, 2017, 07:26:25 PM »
I also have gotten damaged issues when living in New York State,Georgia and now Florida. I have just lumped it but I can say that it certainly is annoying. I do not wish to see increases so perhaps one solution would be for the Club to offer to replace any damaged issue to a Member who alerts the Club to it. One Mans Opinion
1972 Cadillac Fleetwood Eldorado Convertible in Coronation Red , White top , White seats with Oxblood dash and carpet

Offline 35-709

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Re: Self Starter getting destroyed in mail.
« Reply #59 on: October 17, 2017, 07:56:19 PM »
"... one solution would be for the Club to offer to replace any damaged issue to a Member who alerts the Club to it."

This is already club policy.
1935 Cadillac Sedan resto-mod "Big Red"
1973 Cadillac Caribou - Sold
1950 Jaguar Mark V Saloon resto-mod