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Author Topic: 1967 DeVille front upper control arm bushings  (Read 400 times)

Offline fancynick

  • Posts: 3
  • Name: D. Harlacher
1967 DeVille front upper control arm bushings
« on: October 06, 2017, 04:38:46 PM »
Hello everyone,

I am new to this forum after having owned a 1967 Cadillac DeVille convertible for a few years, but without driving it much due to various engine problems that are now finally being solved. While the engine was out of the car, I noticed that I need to replace the front upper control arm bushings.

On various sites selling these bushings, I found different dimensions:
- Most sites specify an outer diameter of either 1 1/2'' or 1 7/16'' but don't specify the length
- Caddy Daddy specifies the inner sleeve length as either 2'' or 1 3/4'', but doesn't specify the O.D. for both (the shorter one is apparently 1 1/2'' in O.D.)

Unfortunately, I cannot be sure that the ones currently installed in my vehicle are the correct ones:
- three of the four seem have an outer diameter of 1 1/2'' and a length of about 1.6 or 1.7'' (a bit difficult to measure exactly while still installed and painted over in the past)
- the fourth one, which is strongly worn, has an outer diameter of 1 1/2'' and a length of about 1.9'', so definitely a different size than the others

Could you tell me which size I need to buy? Which manufacturer would you recommend?

Thanks a lot!

Dirk
------
67 Cadillac DeVille Convertible

Offline chrisntam

  • Posts: 1279
  • Dallas, Texas
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      CLC Member #29206
  • Name: C. Jessen
Re: 1967 DeVille front upper control arm bushings
« Reply #1 on: October 06, 2017, 07:50:59 PM »
Here's a link to a recent discussion of similar bushings, it may be of some help.....

http://forums.cadillaclasalleclub.org/index.php?topic=147032.0
1970 Deville Convertible  MTS 507
Dallas, Texas

Offline fancynick

  • Posts: 3
  • Name: D. Harlacher
Re: 1967 DeVille front upper control arm bushings
« Reply #2 on: October 07, 2017, 05:23:33 AM »
Thank you! I saw that post after I had posted my question (the forum search for "upper control arm bushing" had no results).

Was it generally the case that the left control arm used 1 7/16'' bushings and the right control arm used 1 1/2''?
Does anyone have information of the proper length of the bushings?

Thanks a lot!

Dirk
------
67 Cadillac DeVille Convertible

Offline P. Manoogian

  • CLC #29766
  • Posts: 217
  • Name: P.Manoogian
Re: 1967 DeVille front upper control arm bushings
« Reply #3 on: October 07, 2017, 09:01:34 PM »
Ha! This issue drove me to drink!


I knew I would be replacing all the rubber on a 67 DeVille so like a good Doobie I ordered all my "Moog" rubber from Rock Auto. Yeah, I took a chance and ordered the 1 7/16" as the car was not here yet. Once I got out the right upper arm and bushings I quickly saw that the 1 7/16" were too loose, this I needed 1 1/2". So I shipped back the 4 I bought to Rock Auto and found 4 nice NOS Moog on E Bay and had them shipped in. All set, right? WRONG!!


When I went to do the LEFT side, I realized they were 1 7/16" so I thought "someone swapped in an upper arm." Seeing I sent back the 1 7/16" bushings I decided to rebuild a core I had from a 63 that used the 1.5" bushings. After all assembled, cleaned and painted I installed it, jacked the spring in position, TRIED to connect the knuckle only to find the geometry did not work. Whoa...I rebuilt a RIGHT control arm. Meanwhile my new 1959 -1965 parts CD arrived. I looked up the control arms and found that 61-64 used one number and 65 (and i assume up to 68) used another number, but in the footnote it says "when stock runs out use the 61-64 arm." And in another footnote it says the LEFT arm has a dab of paint. Sure enough there was a dab of yellow on the left arm I removed that had the 1 7/16 bushings. If you compare a left and right arm on the bench you can't see a difference. I used squares, tape measures and my wife who teaches AP Calculus in a top ranked Massachusetts High School. Neither of us could see the difference, but there surely is a difference...hence, the dab of paint from GM?




 So I traveled to Somerville (just outside of Boston) in rush hour traffic to the main AutoZone warehouse to get 1 7/16" bushings. Don't forget I had some but shipped  them back!!!


The Auto Zone bushings were terrible to work with. Yes, they seemed too long and the OD seemed to wide and the shaft i.d. seemed too loose. I fudged with my press and got the ends equal and installed.


Moral of the story? Have several of EACH and buy NOS USA Made. BTW, if you need a RIGHT rebuilt upper arm, complete with ball joint and eccentric I have it! If you need USA MAde 1.5" bushings I have 4 more. If you need 1 7/16" you can get them at Rock Auto or Auto Zone.


Hope this helped you make a plan.
« Last Edit: October 07, 2017, 09:04:42 PM by P. Manoogian »
1961 Eldorado - Shell Pearl/Mauve
1959 Coupe DeVille - Vegas Turquoise
2012 CTS Coupe- Crystal Red
1970 AMX

Offline cadillacmike68

  • Posts: 1226
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  • Name: M Santos
Re: 1967 DeVille front upper control arm bushings
« Reply #4 on: October 07, 2017, 10:16:07 PM »
I have a very late production 1968 (July and its 214,065 out of some 230,000 made).

It uses 1 & 1/2 bushings both sides. The upper A arms are interchangeable left to right and I'm almost certain that the upper shafts are as well. There might have been smaller bushings (and their corresponding shafts) on non-climate control equipped cars, or their might have been two suppliers. I don't know, and there isn't much as to why in anything I can find.
Regards,
"Cadillac" Mike
Current:
1968 DeVille Convertible
1996 Fleetwood Brougham
2009 STS NorthStar Platinum ed RWD
2011 CTS PRemiun ed Sedan RWD
Past:
2008 CTS Premium ed Sedan AWD
2005 CTS Hi-Feature Sedan RWD
2000 ElDorado ESC Hard Boot Convertible
1995 Fleetwood Brougham
1973 Sedan DeVille
1970 Fleetwood Brougham
1969 DeVille Convertible

Offline P. Manoogian

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  • Posts: 217
  • Name: P.Manoogian
Re: 1967 DeVille front upper control arm bushings
« Reply #5 on: October 08, 2017, 02:10:35 AM »
Interchangeable left and right??? There is a different part number in the book for each side. The shafts are the same in my Moog book.
1961 Eldorado - Shell Pearl/Mauve
1959 Coupe DeVille - Vegas Turquoise
2012 CTS Coupe- Crystal Red
1970 AMX

Offline DeVille68

  • Posts: 447
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  • Name: Nicolas Hubacher
Re: 1967 DeVille front upper control arm bushings
« Reply #6 on: October 08, 2017, 09:47:24 AM »
Interesting. I just ordered all MOOG Parts for my suspension, expect the upper ball joints which are from Frap. (Supplied through rareparts.com)

When I look at my suspension arm the lower arms are obviously different. (68 DeVille)
Part number for 67-69 (exc Eld) is 3633808 RH and 3633807 LH
Part number for 67-70 Eld is 404490 RH and 404491 LH
But the lower ball joint is identical.


The upper arms are identical, at least when looking at them. What is different for sure is the ball joint itself. So I guess, as those were delivered fully assembled they needed to have a way to identify which one goes onto which side.
Part number for 67-70 (Exc Eld) is 3633510 RH and 3633509 LH.
Part number for 67-70 Eld is 404488 RH and 404489 LH

When I am going to press in my new ball joints I know which one goes on which side. But the arm itself is the same I think.

I ordered the K5187 Moog which is 1-7/16 in outside diameter. Let's see if they fit upon installation. Both of my upper A-arm bushings measured right about 1-7/16.
« Last Edit: October 08, 2017, 09:52:53 AM by DeVille68 »
1968 Cadillac DeVille Convertible (silver pine green)

Offline cadillacmike68

  • Posts: 1226
  • Still finishing up this 1968
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  • Name: M Santos
Re: 1967 DeVille front upper control arm bushings
« Reply #7 on: October 08, 2017, 03:42:51 PM »
Interchangeable left and right??? There is a different part number in the book for each side. The shafts are the same in my Moog book.

Read the shop manual. It's Very clearly stated on the first page of front suspension.  Upper Arms only. The manual also states they are only interchangeable before tack welding the ball joint in.

The lowers are obviously different because of the diagonal strut rod attachment.
Regards,
"Cadillac" Mike
Current:
1968 DeVille Convertible
1996 Fleetwood Brougham
2009 STS NorthStar Platinum ed RWD
2011 CTS PRemiun ed Sedan RWD
Past:
2008 CTS Premium ed Sedan AWD
2005 CTS Hi-Feature Sedan RWD
2000 ElDorado ESC Hard Boot Convertible
1995 Fleetwood Brougham
1973 Sedan DeVille
1970 Fleetwood Brougham
1969 DeVille Convertible

Offline P. Manoogian

  • CLC #29766
  • Posts: 217
  • Name: P.Manoogian
Re: 1967 DeVille front upper control arm bushings
« Reply #8 on: October 08, 2017, 07:40:57 PM »
I believe when you bought the arms from the dealer they had the BJ installed. The BJ being different makes sense now. Good thread here.
1961 Eldorado - Shell Pearl/Mauve
1959 Coupe DeVille - Vegas Turquoise
2012 CTS Coupe- Crystal Red
1970 AMX

Offline fancynick

  • Posts: 3
  • Name: D. Harlacher
Re: 1967 DeVille front upper control arm bushings
« Reply #9 on: October 15, 2017, 05:47:50 PM »
Thanks everybody for the helpful comments! :-)
------
67 Cadillac DeVille Convertible

Offline cadillacmike68

  • Posts: 1226
  • Still finishing up this 1968
    • CLC Member
      CLC Member #15823
  • Name: M Santos
Re: 1967 DeVille front upper control arm bushings
« Reply #10 on: October 18, 2017, 11:38:19 PM »
The ball joints are the same left and right as well. It's only when they are tack welded into position that the upper A arm / Ball joint assembly becomes specific to left or right.
Regards,
"Cadillac" Mike
Current:
1968 DeVille Convertible
1996 Fleetwood Brougham
2009 STS NorthStar Platinum ed RWD
2011 CTS PRemiun ed Sedan RWD
Past:
2008 CTS Premium ed Sedan AWD
2005 CTS Hi-Feature Sedan RWD
2000 ElDorado ESC Hard Boot Convertible
1995 Fleetwood Brougham
1973 Sedan DeVille
1970 Fleetwood Brougham
1969 DeVille Convertible

Offline DeVille68

  • Posts: 447
    • CLC Member
      CLC Member #30616
  • Name: Nicolas Hubacher
Re: 1967 DeVille front upper control arm bushings
« Reply #11 on: November 05, 2017, 04:01:57 AM »
Here are some pictures of my A-Arm (from my restoration blog here: http://forums.cadillaclasalleclub.org/index.php?topic=130360.new#new). The A-arm in the picture is from the passenger side. You can see that the balljoint is side specific, because it has a stop built into it. The stop is towards the front of the car.
I am not sure what this does of why there has to be a limit on the movement of the upper ball joint.

Anyways, the metal piece itself is identical to the driver side. Only when you press in the ball joint it becomes side specific.

The  middle balljoints on the table are those from the upper arm and the two outer balljoints are those from the lower arm. You can see that the lower do not have a stop built into them. And those can also turn completely free, whereas the upper one don't.
1968 Cadillac DeVille Convertible (silver pine green)

Offline cadillacmike68

  • Posts: 1226
  • Still finishing up this 1968
    • CLC Member
      CLC Member #15823
  • Name: M Santos
Re: 1967 DeVille front upper control arm bushings
« Reply #12 on: November 06, 2017, 07:30:03 AM »
I don't have any upper ball joints that are not installed in the car at present, and at $80-90 each I'm not buying spares. But there may not be a difference, only catalog part #s. Because they are round and they rotate, and they are supposed to be tack welded in.
Regards,
"Cadillac" Mike
Current:
1968 DeVille Convertible
1996 Fleetwood Brougham
2009 STS NorthStar Platinum ed RWD
2011 CTS PRemiun ed Sedan RWD
Past:
2008 CTS Premium ed Sedan AWD
2005 CTS Hi-Feature Sedan RWD
2000 ElDorado ESC Hard Boot Convertible
1995 Fleetwood Brougham
1973 Sedan DeVille
1970 Fleetwood Brougham
1969 DeVille Convertible

 

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