Author Topic: 1976 Eldorado convertible power steering pump / box  (Read 364 times)

Offline 76 cadillac bob

  • Posts: 46
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      CLC Member #30251
  • Name: Bob landre
1976 Eldorado convertible power steering pump / box
« on: October 08, 2017, 11:48:09 AM »
The power steering pump is seeping oil making a mess of the driveway, I decided to have it replaced. Prior to now I had the pressure hose replaced. The quote I received from my mechanic included new hoses(pressure and return)  a new pump and the power steering box replaced. The box and pump are original.  This was not what I wanted. My question is, if there is no sign of an issue with the box does it need replacement? and Do they now see a "PATSY" quoting me $1550.00 for parts and labor and perhaps more?
This mechanic understands I demand things work correctly, I wonder if this is overkill? or is the cost ( not a good time for this expense) making me skittish?
Comments??
Cadillac Bob

Offline Tpicks55

  • Posts: 99
  • 1975 Eldorado Convert 1994 Deville Concours
    • CLC Member
      CLC Member #28988
  • Name: Tony Giannantonio
Re: 1976 Eldorado convertible power steering pump / box
« Reply #1 on: October 08, 2017, 12:48:18 PM »
Bob, that sounds high but I don't know labor rates in your area but labor time to replace  the pump and hoses my be in the area of 2 or 3 hours just guessing.  I have a 75 and I think a 76 is not too much different.  I did mine in a couple hours and the pump came from autozone (rebuilt) for $50. and the hoses were in the neighborhood of $150.  If you have standard tools its not a hard job.  Like I said its a 75 that I did hopefully yours is similar.Good luck. Tony
75 Eldorado Convertable
94 Devill Concurs
13 Chevy Avalanche
2016 Cadillac XTS

Offline Bobby B

  • Posts: 1551
  • Mendham, New Jersey
  • Name: Bob Bender
Re: 1976 Eldorado convertible power steering pump / box
« Reply #2 on: October 08, 2017, 01:21:51 PM »
The power steering pump is seeping oil making a mess of the driveway, I decided to have it replaced. Prior to now I had the pressure hose replaced. The quote I received from my mechanic included new hoses(pressure and return)  a new pump and the power steering box replaced. The box and pump are original.  This was not what I wanted. My question is, if there is no sign of an issue with the box does it need replacement? and Do they now see a "PATSY" quoting me $1550.00 for parts and labor and perhaps more?
This mechanic understands I demand things work correctly, I wonder if this is overkill? or is the cost ( not a good time for this expense) making me skittish?
Comments??
Cadillac Bob

Bob,
 Hi....That sounds awfully high. Maybe someone on the Forum can recommend someone more reasonably priced in your area. Sometimes mechanics throw high numbers out there because they honestly don't like working on old cars. They'd rather change parts on newer vehicles after the computer tells them what's wrong.
                                                                                                                                                                                                  Bobby
1947 Cadillac Series 62 Convertible Coupe
1968 Mustang Convertible
1973 Mustang Convertible
1969 Jaguar E-Type Roadster
1971 Datsun 240Z
1979 H-D FLH

Offline 76 cadillac bob

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  • Name: Bob landre
Re: 1976 Eldorado convertible power steering pump / box
« Reply #3 on: October 08, 2017, 02:19:49 PM »
Hi all
thanks for the speculation. I may do it myself, it is not that hard, I used to work on old cars in my youth. I am getting another quote, closer to $450.00 for parts and labor for just the pump. Maybe less. It is a mechanic I used to fix the AC and he did a terrific job. Works like a charm. Totally honest and fixed my Allante to perfection. WIll know tomorrow and pass along the info.
CB

Offline Bobby B

  • Posts: 1551
  • Mendham, New Jersey
  • Name: Bob Bender
Re: 1976 Eldorado convertible power steering pump / box
« Reply #4 on: October 08, 2017, 02:29:55 PM »
Bob,
 Hi. Parts under $150.00 total @ Rock Auto with Lares or AC Delco, New or Rebuilt. That's including hoses. Go for it!
                                                                                                                                                               Bobby
1947 Cadillac Series 62 Convertible Coupe
1968 Mustang Convertible
1973 Mustang Convertible
1969 Jaguar E-Type Roadster
1971 Datsun 240Z
1979 H-D FLH

Offline Jeff Rose CLC #28373

  • Posts: 1370
  • Name: Jeff Rose
Re: 1976 Eldorado convertible power steering pump / box
« Reply #5 on: October 08, 2017, 03:27:53 PM »
First of all, you say steering "box." Do you mean just the pump or the actual steering box? The difference in price makes me wonder if the original mechanic is thinking the box and the others are thinking of the pump.
If you are talking the pump, it won't hurt you to give it a try
 You can't really break it so if you run into trouble you can always have a shop do it.  Take plenty of pictures from ALL angles so that you can refer to them for belt allignment, etc.
Jeff
Jeff
CLC #28373
1970 Coupe DeVille
1955 Series 62

Offline Bobby B

  • Posts: 1551
  • Mendham, New Jersey
  • Name: Bob Bender
Re: 1976 Eldorado convertible power steering pump / box
« Reply #6 on: October 08, 2017, 03:36:18 PM »
First of all, you say steering "box." Do you mean just the pump or the actual steering box? The difference in price makes me wonder if the original mechanic is thinking the box and the others are thinking of the pump.
If you are talking the pump, it won't hurt you to give it a try
 You can't really break it so if you run into trouble you can always have a shop do it.  Take plenty of pictures from ALL angles so that you can refer to them for belt allignment, etc.
Jeff

Jeff,
 I thought the same, that the mechanic was including the steering "box" also for that price. It has to be...Now that would be a little more involved, labor and materials wise. I can't see a pump and hoses costing $1550.00 to replace. Maybe they're not on the same page, or we're not either  ::).......
                                                                                                                                                                           Bobby
1947 Cadillac Series 62 Convertible Coupe
1968 Mustang Convertible
1973 Mustang Convertible
1969 Jaguar E-Type Roadster
1971 Datsun 240Z
1979 H-D FLH

Offline 76 cadillac bob

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  • Name: Bob landre
Re: 1976 Eldorado convertible power steering pump / box
« Reply #7 on: October 08, 2017, 04:01:14 PM »
Yes responders, the $1550 was for BOTH pump and box, however, I see no need to replace box as there does not appear to be an issue. I only requested the pump be replaced at this time. plus the pressure hose has been replaced within the year.

Offline Bobby B

  • Posts: 1551
  • Mendham, New Jersey
  • Name: Bob Bender
Re: 1976 Eldorado convertible power steering pump / box
« Reply #8 on: October 08, 2017, 06:45:17 PM »
Bob,
 If any bits from the pump are in the fluid you will toast the new pump. Have your mechanic flush what's left of your existing system, and install an in-line filter just to make sure you don't get any garbage in the new pump, hoses, etc. Most pumps come with these instructions or the warranty is NG. They're only a few dollars and get installed in the return hose. If you want, You can take it out after a bit.
                                                                                              Bobby
1947 Cadillac Series 62 Convertible Coupe
1968 Mustang Convertible
1973 Mustang Convertible
1969 Jaguar E-Type Roadster
1971 Datsun 240Z
1979 H-D FLH

Offline savemy67

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      CLC Member #29202
  • Name: Christopher Winter
Re: 1976 Eldorado convertible power steering pump / box
« Reply #9 on: October 08, 2017, 08:16:11 PM »
Hello Bob,

In addition to Bobby B.'s reason that some mechanics quote high prices because they don't like working on old cars, another reason for the high price is to cover a re-do if something goes wrong.  I think the price you were quoted is very high.  What is the hourly labor rate at the mechanic's shop that quoted $1550?  You can find on-line, or in an old flat-rate manual, the amount of time for removal and replacement of the pump and box.

The second quote of $450 for just the pump is also too high in my opinion.  A rebuild kit for your pump is less than $10.  A rebuilt pump is less than $50.  At $100 per hour, the mechanic who quoted $450 is indicating that it will take 4 hours to replace the pump.  This seems much too long for a competent mechanic.

In any event, you have to make the decision, and abide by what you decide.  If you are up to it, you could do the job yourself.  The pump is easier to replace than the box.  Both are messy jobs, so be prepared.  If the fluid does not look like it is new, you may want to use a filter as suggested by Bobby B.  Good luck.

Respectfully submitted,
Christopher Winter
Christopher Winter
1967 Sedan DeVille hardtop

Offline bcroe

  • Posts: 2016
    • CLC Member
      CLC Member #14630
1976 Eldorado convertible power steering pump / box
« Reply #10 on: October 09, 2017, 07:52:46 AM »
Is that a hydroboost system?  If so you also have the brake unit
involved.  My own experience is pumps never wear out.  I would
make some effort to see just which of the components is leaking,
and see if it needs to be tightened or a gasket can be added.  I
would never replace an original quality part with unknown parts if
it wasn't known to be the problem. 

And there isn't much doubt, doing most or all will the work yourself
save tons of money.  I tell people you either need to learn to fix these
cars, or have a lot of $ and know a really good old time mechanic. 
Bruce Roe

Offline TJ Hopland

  • Posts: 6712
Re: 1976 Eldorado convertible power steering pump / box
« Reply #11 on: October 09, 2017, 11:10:03 AM »
I could see recommending replacing the box if the pump had failed but if its just leaking I would not worry about it. 

With the hydroboost there are 2 high pressure lines and 2 return lines so make sure you get em all done. 

StPaul/Mpls, MN USA

73 Eldo convert w/FiTech EFI
75 Eldo rusty but trusty
80 Eldo Diesel
And other assorted stuff I keep buying for some reason

Offline 76 cadillac bob

  • Posts: 46
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  • Name: Bob landre
Re: 1976 Eldorado convertible power steering pump / box
« Reply #12 on: October 09, 2017, 12:09:43 PM »
Thanks all
It is just leaking no failure. I will confirm hydro boost or not. I may have mechanic see if he can do gaskets and new fluid plus filter for the original unit. Excellent idea. Fluid is clean had it replaced when the hose was replaced. The original quote was $100.00 an hour (I should have been a mechanic, I could have retired sooner than I did) I suspect they did not want to work on it. Everyone has given me excellent information this forum is great, thanks all once again for your sound advice and information.
CB

Offline TJ Hopland

  • Posts: 6712
Re: 1976 Eldorado convertible power steering pump / box
« Reply #13 on: October 10, 2017, 10:22:14 AM »
If its not leaking from the shaft behind the pulley it should re seal up fine.   If its leaking at the pulley that can indicate worn bearings which is more complicated than just seals. 
StPaul/Mpls, MN USA

73 Eldo convert w/FiTech EFI
75 Eldo rusty but trusty
80 Eldo Diesel
And other assorted stuff I keep buying for some reason

Offline 1976Deville

  • Posts: 32
  • Name: H Wandt
Re: 1976 Eldorado convertible power steering pump / box
« Reply #14 on: October 13, 2017, 09:49:09 PM »
Hi Bruce Roe,
I have to ask you some question about the Eldorado system. It looks like you know the hydroboost system]

Offline bcroe

  • Posts: 2016
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1976 Eldorado convertible power steering pump / box
« Reply #15 on: October 13, 2017, 11:34:31 PM »
Quote from: 1976Deville
Hi Bruce Roe,
I have to ask you some question about the Eldorado system. It looks
like you know the hydroboost system]   

A couple of my diesel cars have it, so I have seen it, liked it, and replaced
hoses as maintenance.  Since none have ever failed here, I don't know
much about servicing them.  Apparently a pressure hose goes from the
power steering pump to the hydro brake booster, then another to the
conventional steering box.  There are 2 low pressure return hoses to the
pump which has an extra port, making it special.  But a T can be plumbed
in to use a standard pump.  Bruce Roe

Offline bcroe

  • Posts: 2016
    • CLC Member
      CLC Member #14630
1976 Eldorado power steering pump / box
« Reply #16 on: October 14, 2017, 10:48:47 AM »
1976Deville   H Wandt

"A couple of years ago I saw a 76 Eldorado going to the junk yard. I talk to the truck driver and he gave me the car for a case of beer. Now the car is sitting in my garage. I know the power steering and power break is leaking. I never look close what could be wrong with the car ( working on a 63 Mercury Monterey) but could this be the hydroboost?"

Its pretty easy to tell the difference between a big round brake booster with a vacuum
hose, and a long thinner Hydro brake booster with steering pump connections.  Bruce Roe

Offline TJ Hopland

  • Posts: 6712
Re: 1976 Eldorado convertible power steering pump / box
« Reply #17 on: October 14, 2017, 02:57:29 PM »
Ya the hydroboost unit mounts between the firewall and master cylinder where as Bruce said is normally where the big round vacuum booster mounts.    The hydroboost unit is similar size to a master cylinder and is also a cast main body. 

When they wear and age they can and do leak power steering fluid.  Usually don't leak into the car, it usually ends up dripping off the bottom of the main unit.  Leaks usually don't effect the performance but usually get progressively worse to the point where its really messy and you risk running low on fluid which the not only can effect your brakes also looses your power steering.  You could then end up damaging the pump which spits debris into both the booster and steering box so it becomes a very expensive repair.

Typical wear failure mode on them is the bore wears at the 'sweet spot' which is that point of pedal travel where you are almost at a complete gentle stop and need to just press a little harder for the full stop.  It all feels normal till that point when all the sudden the pedal seems to drop.   Most people react by stepping harder which is when the boost kicks back in so you end up making a very abrupt stop.   

The are still commonly used today on heavier light trucks and diesels.   The rebuild kits are somewhat universal and fit a wide range of years and models.   Some diesel shops that work on smaller stuff will do them in house but many 'send them out'.     You can have an extreme wear case where the bore is damaged.  The can be machined and sleeved like an MC but its expensive so most of the time its cheaper to find a replacement. 

When I have replaced them I have left the MC plumbed in and slightly swung it away and rigged a tempoary support so it wasn't just hanging on the brake lines.   They are held to the firewall by 4 studs with nuts on the inside.   Access can be tight and uncomfortable under the dash.   My trucks have not been a problem but on my 80 eldo it seems they must have installed the booster as the first item on the firewall and held it with one of those spring retaining clip washer things while the built the rest of the car around it.  I spent several hours trying to free it up.  Big hammer and long bar finally did it. 
StPaul/Mpls, MN USA

73 Eldo convert w/FiTech EFI
75 Eldo rusty but trusty
80 Eldo Diesel
And other assorted stuff I keep buying for some reason

Offline 1976Deville

  • Posts: 32
  • Name: H Wandt
Re: 1976 Eldorado convertible power steering pump / box
« Reply #18 on: October 14, 2017, 09:13:13 PM »
So could I replace the hydroboost with a vacuum booster from a De Ville or 75 Eldorado?
I do not know what I will do with the car. At the moment it is sitting in my dry Garage.
The car drive except for the leaking PS and Power Brakes There is an other issue  with the car. Here in Canada many people convert the old big cars to propane. So the Eldorado has no tank. Also carb and other engine parts are gone. I belief the car had fuel injection. Can I use the intake manifold from a fuel injection car to install a carburetor?

Offline TJ Hopland

  • Posts: 6712
Re: 1976 Eldorado convertible power steering pump / box
« Reply #19 on: October 15, 2017, 01:30:31 PM »
The factory EFI manifold was unique to these EFI cars and used a 2bbl throttle body that didn't appear to match anything else at the time or now. 

No idea how easy or hard it would be to convert to a vac booster, never heard anyone want to before.   Most times people go the other way because they have a performance motor with low vacuum or clearance issues.   It shouldn't be that difficult to find parts to fix what you have.  Like I said not that common in cars but very common in light trucks.   
StPaul/Mpls, MN USA

73 Eldo convert w/FiTech EFI
75 Eldo rusty but trusty
80 Eldo Diesel
And other assorted stuff I keep buying for some reason