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346 water in the oil and cylinders??

Started by gary griffin, December 13, 2017, 07:17:24 PM

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Bobby B

Quote from: autoluke on December 17, 2017, 09:55:44 AM
After chasing the leak as an issue on the block surface , we finally found the problem to be an erosion of the casting adjacent to the lower cylinder wall.
Seems that the shop missed the area during magnaflux.

Phil,
Hi. Could you post a picture of that if you have it, so we could reference it as another place to double check the block before putting it back into service.  ;)
            Bobby
1947 Cadillac Series 62 Convertible Coupe
1968 Mustang Convertible
1973 Mustang Convertible
1969 Jaguar E-Type Roadster
1971 Datsun 240Z
1979 H-D FLH

Steve Passmore

If that were the problem in Gary's case a flaw in that area would put all the water in the oil pan but not up in the combustion chambers?
Steve

Present
1937 60 convertible coupe
1941 62 convertible coupe
1941 62 coupe

Previous
1936 70 Sport coupe
1937 85 series V12 sedan
1938 60 coupe
1938 50 coupe
1939 60S
1940 62 coupe
1941 62 convertible coupe x2
1941 61 coupe
1941 61 sedan x2
1941 62 sedan x2
1947 62 sedan
1959 62 coupe

Bobby B

Quote from: Steve Passmore on December 17, 2017, 11:17:34 AM
If that were the problem in Gary's case a flaw in that area would put all the water in the oil pan but not up in the combustion chambers?

Steve,
Hi. Correct.... I wasn't referring to Gary's engine but just in general. It's good to know that there's another possible location for an issue with a Flathead when they magna flux.
                   Bobby
1947 Cadillac Series 62 Convertible Coupe
1968 Mustang Convertible
1973 Mustang Convertible
1969 Jaguar E-Type Roadster
1971 Datsun 240Z
1979 H-D FLH

Steve Passmore

How do you think the Magnaflux could have missed a flaw in that position Bobby?
Steve

Present
1937 60 convertible coupe
1941 62 convertible coupe
1941 62 coupe

Previous
1936 70 Sport coupe
1937 85 series V12 sedan
1938 60 coupe
1938 50 coupe
1939 60S
1940 62 coupe
1941 62 convertible coupe x2
1941 61 coupe
1941 61 sedan x2
1941 62 sedan x2
1947 62 sedan
1959 62 coupe

Bobby B

Quote from: Steve Passmore on December 17, 2017, 12:18:01 PM
How do you think the Magnaflux could have missed a flaw in that position Bobby?

Most likely laziness OR it was never done and they said it was because they "visually" inspected, or felt the need not to inspect. Coffee Break, Lunch Break, Quitting Time, etc. They used to have some saying that the best cars were made on certain days of the week. I wonder Why?  ???
                                                                                                                                                                       Bobby
1947 Cadillac Series 62 Convertible Coupe
1968 Mustang Convertible
1973 Mustang Convertible
1969 Jaguar E-Type Roadster
1971 Datsun 240Z
1979 H-D FLH

Steve Passmore

Steve

Present
1937 60 convertible coupe
1941 62 convertible coupe
1941 62 coupe

Previous
1936 70 Sport coupe
1937 85 series V12 sedan
1938 60 coupe
1938 50 coupe
1939 60S
1940 62 coupe
1941 62 convertible coupe x2
1941 61 coupe
1941 61 sedan x2
1941 62 sedan x2
1947 62 sedan
1959 62 coupe

gary griffin

Considering Harry's post and since I have one head off anyway I am considering Bars leak solution.

Sort of flipping a coin so to speak.

I would remove the other head  and I would leave water level as it is with the heads off and place pulverized chunks of bars leak in the water. After that I would put the heads back on and run the engine carefully monitoring temperature at the low water level, and then I would slowly pour warm water with bars leak into the radiator also. I am open to any other ideas ?? Worst case is ruining the engine. I would not tighten the radiator cap until a lot of cycles of heating and cooling occurred.

  My first inkling of a problem was when I topped of the radiator and started getting vapor in the exhaust and I suspect the water and anti freeze in the cylinders are from a direct leak into the combustion chamber.
Gary Griffin

1940 LaSalle 5029 4 door convertible sedan
1942 Cadillac 6719 restoration almost complete?
1957 Cadillac 60-special (Needs a little TLC)
2013 Cadillac XTS daily driver

Bobby B

Gary,
Hi. Before you pour that crap in, did you pressurize your cooling system like we spoke about? Again, you're wasting your time and money without getting to the root of the problem. Bars Leak is a Band-Aid usually reserved for used car dealers who want to sell a car with a head gasket/cooling system issue. They shouldn't even sell that stuff. A few days ago my best friend was getting blow-by in his air filter and water droplets out of the exhaust in his Ford Truck. He was ready to pour that stuff in or pull the head. I told him to check his PCV valve which is impossible to see under the manifold. Lo and Behold, it was disconnected. Re-installed it, no more issues. Don't be so quick to complicate matters until you find out what's going on. Then you can jump in head first.....
            Bobby
1947 Cadillac Series 62 Convertible Coupe
1968 Mustang Convertible
1973 Mustang Convertible
1969 Jaguar E-Type Roadster
1971 Datsun 240Z
1979 H-D FLH

gary griffin

 Bobby,

I did not tighten the radiator cap but I will reinstall the head and try a pressure test before anything else.  It was running so smoothly and then vapor in the exhaust grew and grew. I am not sure the larger volume of water and anti freeze in the cylinder was from leak.  If I go through this again I will drain the system to below the cylinder level before removing  a head.

Gary Griffin

1940 LaSalle 5029 4 door convertible sedan
1942 Cadillac 6719 restoration almost complete?
1957 Cadillac 60-special (Needs a little TLC)
2013 Cadillac XTS daily driver

The Tassie Devil(le)

I don't know what sort ofg Bars Leak you have in USA, but here we have it as a liquid with small droplets of "stuff" that you pour into the radiator, and then drive the car (or run the engine) and it travels through the coolant system, and when it finds a leak, seals it.

I only use it in an emergency, like when I was travelling USA in 2002, and stuck near Ocala in Florida, and it let me continue travelling onto California, where I found the actual leak whilst entering Las Vegas. (cracked overflow recovery tank)

Bruce. >:D
'72 Eldorado Convertible (LHD)
'70 Ranchero Squire (RHD)
'74 Chris Craft Gull Wing (SH)
'02 VX Series II Holden Commodore SS Sedan
(Past President Modified Chapter)

Past Cars of significance - to me
1935 Ford 3 Window Coupe
1936 Ford 5 Window Coupe
1937 Chevrolet Sports Coupe
1955 Chevrolet Convertible
1959 Ford Fairlane Ranch Wagon
1960 Cadillac CDV
1972 Cadillac Eldorado Coupe

Bobby B

Quote from: The Tassie Devil(le) on December 17, 2017, 04:31:43 PM
I don't know what sort ofg Bars Leak you have in USA, but here we have it as a liquid with small droplets of "stuff" that you pour into the radiator, and then drive the car (or run the engine) and it travels through the coolant system, and when it finds a leak, seals it.

I only use it in an emergency, like when I was travelling USA in 2002, and stuck near Ocala in Florida, and it let me continue travelling onto California, where I found the actual leak whilst entering Las Vegas. (cracked overflow recovery tank)

Bruce. >:D

Bruce,
   Similar to "Fix-a-Flat" in a can, except for your cooling system. Once you get home, you get a new tire. As in your case, the application was an Emergency or else I'm sure you wouldn't have used it. 
                                                                     Bobby
1947 Cadillac Series 62 Convertible Coupe
1968 Mustang Convertible
1973 Mustang Convertible
1969 Jaguar E-Type Roadster
1971 Datsun 240Z
1979 H-D FLH

Janousek

Gary,
Try putting air to the cylinders.  Put 100psi through the spark plug hole and Rotate the cylinder being tested to the bottom of the stroke where both valves are shut and the hissing stops.  Look into the radiator and watch for bubbles.  It should help isolate which cylinder your looking for. 

Are you using copper spray way on the new gaskets.  It's a napa product you paint the gasket with.  I use it on all the copper gasket engines I do. 

Our 42' had 2 cylinders cracked like everyone else's.  I stitch pinned the crack and has a sleeve installed in that cylinder. 

Janousek

Gary,  I was looking at your pictures.  They should have decked that block to get rid of the pits.  How pitted are the heads?  I wouldn't trust the headgaskets would ever seal those up.  About all you can do is seal them with copper spray and try it. 

Still try the air.  My guess is the center cylinders will be the leakers.

Steve Passmore

Gary hasn't posted any pictures??   unless you're looking at Bobby's?
Steve

Present
1937 60 convertible coupe
1941 62 convertible coupe
1941 62 coupe

Previous
1936 70 Sport coupe
1937 85 series V12 sedan
1938 60 coupe
1938 50 coupe
1939 60S
1940 62 coupe
1941 62 convertible coupe x2
1941 61 coupe
1941 61 sedan x2
1941 62 sedan x2
1947 62 sedan
1959 62 coupe

Janousek

Gary's pictures are in the restoration corner thread at the top of the page. 

Steve Passmore

Steve

Present
1937 60 convertible coupe
1941 62 convertible coupe
1941 62 coupe

Previous
1936 70 Sport coupe
1937 85 series V12 sedan
1938 60 coupe
1938 50 coupe
1939 60S
1940 62 coupe
1941 62 convertible coupe x2
1941 61 coupe
1941 61 sedan x2
1941 62 sedan x2
1947 62 sedan
1959 62 coupe

Bob Hoffmann CLC#96

I don't. Where the hell are they?? Why not post them here??
1968 Eldorado slick top ,white/red interior
2015 Holden Ute HSV Maloo red/black interior.
             
Too much fun is more than you can have.

Bobby B

Quote from: Steve Passmore on December 18, 2017, 01:39:07 PM
Unless you're looking at Bobby's?

Steve,
Gary's in trouble if his engine looks like one of mine DID....... ;D ;D ;D
                                                                               Bobby
1947 Cadillac Series 62 Convertible Coupe
1968 Mustang Convertible
1973 Mustang Convertible
1969 Jaguar E-Type Roadster
1971 Datsun 240Z
1979 H-D FLH

The Tassie Devil(le)

Quote from: Bob Hoffmann CLC#96 on December 18, 2017, 09:15:33 PM
I don't. Where the hell are they?? Why not post them here??
Here they are.   

http://forums.cadillaclasalleclub.org/index.php?topic=118307.20

Just scroll down to the middle of the page, and all will be revealed.

Bruce. >:D
'72 Eldorado Convertible (LHD)
'70 Ranchero Squire (RHD)
'74 Chris Craft Gull Wing (SH)
'02 VX Series II Holden Commodore SS Sedan
(Past President Modified Chapter)

Past Cars of significance - to me
1935 Ford 3 Window Coupe
1936 Ford 5 Window Coupe
1937 Chevrolet Sports Coupe
1955 Chevrolet Convertible
1959 Ford Fairlane Ranch Wagon
1960 Cadillac CDV
1972 Cadillac Eldorado Coupe

Jim Miller

I've been watching this post since it started. Is the problem caused from age, mileage, or does it just happen?  I have a '41 with 58,000 miles. Runs fine and the engine has never been opened. Beyond routine maintenance - is there anything one should do to prevent or forestall such a problem. Or us it just the luck of the draw?
Jim Miller
Jim Miller

1941 6219
1949 6237X
1970 CDV
2021 XT6
Past:
1991 SDV
1999 DeElegence
2006 DTS
2013 XTS
2016 SRX