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caster / camber

Started by George, March 06, 2005, 07:09:35 PM

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George

Has anyone had experience of these caster/camber items on E-Bay.* 4532598444
I need to do a bit of front end work on my Eldorado, and wondered if these gauges are any use. Front end geometry is not an easy thing to get done in Britain.

Bruce Reynolds # 18992

Gday George,

They are a very useful tool, but are supposed to grip onto the centre of the wheel hub and can only be used when the vehicle is sitting normally on the suspension and the wheels are on the ground.

For the seller to say that it can be done on the disc rotor, then I would be very suspicious as there is no way of having the suspension in normal compression mode with the wheel off.

I have a Replex unit, and that is used in conjuction with the rest of the wheel alignment apparatus.

Bruce,
The Tassie Devil(le),
60 CDV

George

Yes,I agree. I cant figure out how adjustment can be done without turning plates. I have looked at the WEB and quite a few sites reckon it can be done. The gauges appear to be fastened either magnetically or threaded to the spindle. I was hoping someone had experience of these gauges. Trying to find a pro,shop to do the work is hopeless in England.

Bruce Reynolds # 18992

George,

Yes, they are magnetically held to the spindle and the Magnets surround a hole that allows the fitting to go over the spindle and nut and Clamp onto the outer edge of the hub.

The tool in the picture doesnt appear to have a large enough base to have that hole.

I thought England would have a lot of little garages, seeing as there are a lot of cars that would, or should, require servicing.

Turning plates are a must as they have indicators on them to show the degrees turned, etc.

Bruce,
The Tassie Devil(le),
60 CDV

P.S.   Visitors say that Tasmania has a lot of countryside like England.   And, yes, we speak the Queens English.

George

Dont let my comments about just dashes seem like a criticism of the USA. I love America, and Americans. Nonetheless, I phoned Just Dashes to try and get my 59 dash rebuilt, and this never happened. A phone call from Uk to USA is expensive., and the conversation was non productive. It was a simple question, can you rebuild my 59 dash.

george

Hey Taz, Do you have many USA cars over there. I actually live in Wales UK. The tiny village I live in has 8 differenf USA vehicles. 4 of them are mine.

Bruce Reynolds # 18992

By George,

We have lots of American Iron here in Australia, and Tasmania isnt that isolated from the mainland.

But, what comes over here, usually stays, as the cost of getting across Bass Strait in the early days was horrendous.

At our All American days, we can have up to 200 cars on display, and then those are only displayed by the owners that really care about showing them.  

But, as far as Cadillacs go, there would have to be around 30 or 40 here, in various stages of going or not.

Bruce,
The Tassie Devil(le),
60 CDV

P.S. I have 4 American cars in my garage, and I am one of many in similar situations.  

George

Nice to hear, but dont you have to convert to right hand drive.

Bruce Reynolds # 18992

George,

Up till last year we had to convert everything to RHD, but now, cars older than 30 years can stay LHD.

That didnt stop many cars coming across the water.   I personally have converted ten vehicles to RHD over the years.   There are still a lot of Conversion Companies still doing lots of late model cars.

I am sure that the reason a lot of US iron came in was because people didnt like the English and European cars, especially the English cars with their Lucas electrics, ha ha.

You have to remember that Chevrolet and Pontiac were being sold here by Dealers up to 68, and Ford till 71, and Chrysler Corp, till around 68 as well.   I am not sure when Rambler stopped, but we have Chrysler being imported now for the past ten odd years.   And, yes, we have those PT Cruisers as well.

Bruce,
The Tassie Devil(le),
60 CDV

Frank Wurpel

Hi guys,

Some of you may know that I have been restoring my 1965 Cadillac DeVille convertible for the last three years, and am now in the home stretch, which includes ...... wheel alignment.
I have asked this Forum several times what the implications would be if you are to change cross ply tyres to radial tyres. It seems to me that apart from the required Toe-in adjustment to 1/16 (thanks Bruce), there is little more to be done.

Wrong!

I have been searching the internet for months on this topic (I always want to be fully prepared and informed when I start a new job) and found out that actually Toe-in, and Camber are not that important.
Now before everyone starts writing e-mails let me explain my point:

1. Camber should be equal left and right, (although some compensation may be made to counter the effect of the road surface not being perfectly horizontal for water drainage.
The Camber angle will generally only be around 1°.

2. Toe-in compensates in principle for front suspension rubber bushing deformation as the rear wheels are pushing the car forward, and the front wheels initially want to stay were they are. Imagine what would happen if you were to start driving off with both front wheels locked. (they would try to go outward) The amount of Toe-in therefore is depending on your bushings, and will be very small. As Bruce mentioned, a 1/16 Toe-in will be a good figure to start of with, but I would personally keep an eye on front tyre wear to see if you need to adjust.
Too much or too little Toe-in will show on your tyre thread as a very recogniseble patern.

I have discovered that Caster is THE important wheel alignment variable nobody talks about:
Apparently, in the old days when cars drove around on Cross Ply tyres the specification was for negative Caster since Cross ply tyres had the tendency to deform under speed, resulting in a possitive Caster.
Therefore: when you put Radial tyres on a car that was originally equipped with Cross Ply tyres, you should re-adjust your Caster from negative to possitive. Again, the angle does not really matter as long as both sides are equal, and the angle is not too great (1° to 2° should be OK)

For more reading on this topic, refer to :
http://www.familycar.com/alignment TARGET=_blank>http://www.familycar.com/alignment


Hope this sheds some light on a difficult topic.

By the way, I am trying to engineer a device (using lasers) which I will be able to use to do the complete wheel alignment myself. Basically, you will need the angle plates underneath the front wheels to determine the angle turned so you will be able to calculate caster by measuring the wheel angle to the floor. In short: as the wheels turn from center to right or left, the wheels will also start to deviate from their perpendicular angle to the road surface. This change in angle can be measured directly,and through a simple formul, the caster angle maybe calculated.A=tan({tanB)/sin(C)) in which A= caster angle, B= measured wheel deviation angle to the floor and C = wheel turning angle


Hope this shows some light on this difficult topic




Thanks,

Cheers,

Frank Wurpel
Lumphanan, Scotland (UK)

George

Yes, Lucas. HMMMMM. Like everything in England gone south.