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Weighing the options of adding a/c to the Fleetwood

Started by Dan LeBlanc, July 15, 2014, 06:01:29 PM

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Dan LeBlanc

Last week's trip to the Grand National brought the thought to the forefront once again of adding air conditioning to the Fleetwood.  I have the complete factory setup from a parts car, but removing the dash, installing the wiring harness, and the extent of disassembly of the car is far too extensive to use the factory setup.  I have been looking at underdash systems that are very period correct looking.  I have found an a5 to a6 compressor conversion kit that would enable me to use the factory bracketry and pulleys from the parts car with a modern compressor.  The rest of the installation is very straightforward.  I'm just not a good fabricator and I want the installation to look clean, so using factory brackets with a compressor upgrade kit, and a period correct looking under dash unit, with modern hoses and condenser.

I'm worried that I may devalue the car by doing so.  For those of you that have seen and know the car, an explanation is not necessary as to why I'm asking.  For those of you who haven't, the Fleetwood rolled over 20,000mi on the way to the Grand National, received a first place primary award and a preservation award.

Would adding this be a huge mistake?

Let the opinions fly.
Dan LeBlanc
1977 Lincoln Continental Town Car

quadfins


Would adding this be a huge mistake?

Let the opinions fly.
[/quote]

Yes.

How much do you really plan to drive it? I put several thousand miles each year on my CdV, and I rarely run the AC, even here in Virginia.

Do you plan to attempt to progress in AACA or CLC judging? A non-factory system, even if period-correct, will be a roadblock to your progression.

Plus, it will still look out of place.

Dan, you value Rosa for her unique originality. Don't screw her up.

Jim
Jim Eccleston
1961 Coupe de Ville
BATILAC
Senior Crown
DeCou Driving Award x 4

cadparts58

Dan
  I agree with Jim 100%. The car is just too nice to change anything on. It is a very great example of an original car and should stay the way it is. There are not that many originals left in that condition that can carry on the tradition.
Frank Puma #10721

Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621

#3
For the few amount of hours per year spent behind the wheel during hot periods relative to the cost to the car's original integrity, appearance, to say nothing about the out of pocket expenses the add-on would incur, frankly it is not worth the price - not in my book.

Long distance journeys during hot temps will likely be very few & far between - especially where you reside. It may be years before you will ever see a repeat of last week's conditions and circumstances.

BLESSING DENIED  ;)
A Cadillac Motorcar is a Possession for which there is no Acceptable Substitute

Walter Youshock

As an owner of a non-air car who had the chance to install it during a paint job and didn't...

AC WAS available as a dealer addon.  BUT, messing with a car like that and where you live--PLEASE DON'T!  Furthermore, everybody wants the fully-loaded car with every option.  One car such as your time-capsule should never be messed with.  To me, the addition of AC to that car would not increase its value and could actually harm it. 

Gather the parts.  If you ever sell the car, include the entire AC system uninstalled.  Leave it to the next guy to make the decision.  In the meantime, find a vintage Swamp Cooler.  That'll draw a lot of attention and help with the heat.
CLC #11959 (Life)
1957 Coupe deVille
1991 Brougham

62 driver

Dave Schneider,  CLC #27889

Dan LeBlanc

Other option would be to get myself a Talisman for doing a long journey instead.   >:D
Dan LeBlanc
1977 Lincoln Continental Town Car

76eldo

Dan

I vote no.  Way too nice and original to tamper with.

I was really hot driving home in my non AC 1960 too but it is too involved to add air.

Brian

Brian Rachlin
Huntingdon Valley, Pa
I prefer email's not PM's rachlin@comcast.net

1960 62 Series Conv with Factory Tri Power
1970 DeVille Conv
1970 Eldo
1970 Caribu (?) "The Cadmino"
1973 Eldorado Conv Pace Car
1976 Eldorado Conv
1980 Eldorado H & E Conv
1993 Allante with Hardtop (X2)
2008 DTS
2012 CTS Coupe
2017 XT
1956 Thunderbird
1966 Olds Toronado

Ralph Messina CLC 4937

Dan,

I agree with the advice given in the above posts. Finding the all the original parts in working order is hard enough. Installing it so it has patina and doesn’t look like a retrofit will take a great deal of work.
I’d want an experienced Cadillac mechanic nearby for questions that are sure to come. In short “If it ain’t broke….”.

If you want a Fleetwood with AC, I suggest looking at a ’77-79 with leather interior. I had a ’79 that I consider one of the best cars I’ve owned. They’re roomy, have great performance and ride and they can be found at reasonable price in nice condition - they’re four doors. I mentioned leather as a personal choice because the velour/ pillow style seats are too soft and lack support for longer trips

Ralph.   
1966 Fleetwood Brougham-with a new caretaker http://bit.ly/1GCn8I4
1966 Eldorado-with a new caretaker  http://bit.ly/1OrxLoY
2018 GMC Yukon

Jon S

Dan -

I agree with all the comments, above.  I didn't know 1961 Fleetwoods could be ordered without air conditioning.  I thoght by 1961 it was standard.  Never too old to learn . . .
Jon

1958 Cadillac Sedan De Ville
1973 Lincoln Continental Coupe
1981 Corvette
2004 Mustang GT

CaddyShackPA

Dan, great seeing you and your car at the GN; congratulations on the awards! From both a practical perspective and as a geeky engineer I love air conditioning so I'm inclined to support your notion. It's a significant undertaking and must be done with great care but it is achievable. By all means, though, do it with only the proper OE-type components. Seeing a Sanden or some other aftermarket compressor on a classic car is almost as bad as seeing Korean tires - yuck.

That said, if you can turn this into a discussion of adding another Cadillac to the collection, well, I'm all for that, too.

Best regards,
Jeff

J. Papciak   #23864     
'59 Coupe DeVille
'69 Eldorado  
'72 Coupe DeVille  
'77 Seville
‘81 Fleetwood Brougham  
‘89 Brougham 
'92 Sedan DeVille  
‘95 Fleetwood  
'02 STS   '10 CTS-V   ‘17 CTS

Bob Hoffmann CLC#96

Dan,
I'm going to recommend that you install the factory AC. But... ONLY if you do it totally stock. You sound like a guy that can do it right. Good Luck.
HTH, Bob
1968 Eldorado slick top ,white/red interior
2015 Holden Ute HSV Maloo red/black interior.
             
Too much fun is more than you can have.

David Greenburg

I'll chime in here in the "no" column, particularly given your location.  My '59 Fleetwood did not have a/c, and I must say I rarely missed it.  During most of my tenure with the car, I was in N. California, which is admittedly an easier place than most to get by without a/c. As long as all the windows were all down and the car was moving, I was fine.  But I know plenty of people in New England that get by without a/c in their cars (or their houses), and I'm sure they are a few degrees warmer than you are.   

My '60 Seville has a/c, and I rarely use it and so far have spent quite a bit of money to get it operating correctly.  But the other thing to keep in mind besides the issue of originality that others have raised, is under hood access.  I haven't spent much time under the hood of a '61, but I assume its quite similar to  '59-'60, and having the a/c makes everything from changing plugs to getting at the water pump or the antenna more difficult and time consuming.  It will cost you more skin on your knuckles, or dollars if you're paying someone else.  I miss the acres of space on that side of the engine!
David Greenburg
'60 Eldorado Seville
'61 Fleetwood Sixty Special

Dan LeBlanc

Wow, I didn't realize that the consensus would be so overwhelming in the no column.  But, maybe that's just me being blind.

The intent was to use an under-dash system so that for judging, I would simply evacuate and remove the system and reinstall to be enjoyed later.  It's not exactly ideal, the intent is to make the modification completely reversible.  For example, I would have passed the hoses through one of the a/c blanking plates - not an original one, but, rather, a spare from the parts stash, so that the original piece could be re-fitted.  The compressor was to be mounted using the factory brackets from the parts car using a conversion kit to fit a newer compressor to the factory brackets.  Anyhow, it was all pie in the sky, and figured I'd share my thoughts with folks here who justifiably could talk me off the ledge should this be an injustice.

The extent of disassembly of the dash to fit the factory setup is far too extensive to be worthwhile.  Plus, I'd be worried about fit and finish, and I would also have to paint the dash vents to match which to get the same gloss and perfect match on shading is too great of a risk.

I think the more viable option would be to convince the Mrs. to let me have a third Cadillac (second if the deVille doesn't count).

Perhaps a Talisman would be a fine touring car that wouldn't come with the worries of driving the 61 on a longer trip.  Or even a 58 Sixty Special with working a/c (although I think that would require giving up the 61).
Dan LeBlanc
1977 Lincoln Continental Town Car

Walter Youshock

Dan, with all that, just put the kids in the back seat and make them fan you as you drive.  Install, uninstall, on and on...  And you want to keep the miles down on the car.  With AC, you'll want to drive it even more.

Get an Escalade and trailer the '61 with it!  Better yet, a Navigator.
CLC #11959 (Life)
1957 Coupe deVille
1991 Brougham

Dan LeBlanc

There were a few instances where I was stuck in traffic on the way down and wished I was sitting in the Navigator with the car on the trailer.  That Navigator of ours will turn into a meat locker.  Turn on the cooled seats, it's like heaven on earth.
Dan LeBlanc
1977 Lincoln Continental Town Car

russ austin

You have to decide what is more important to you. Judging at a show, once a year, or enjoying a car, in comfort, while you are driving it.  Its a car, drive it.
R.Austin

76eldo

There's the answer.  For traveling long distances to a show, get a trailer and pull it behind the Nav if it's rated to tow that much weight.  You will be comfy and keep down the miles on that car.

It's a first place car, and won a preservation award.  I would never change anything on that car if it was mine, other than wear items.

Brian
Brian Rachlin
Huntingdon Valley, Pa
I prefer email's not PM's rachlin@comcast.net

1960 62 Series Conv with Factory Tri Power
1970 DeVille Conv
1970 Eldo
1970 Caribu (?) "The Cadmino"
1973 Eldorado Conv Pace Car
1976 Eldorado Conv
1980 Eldorado H & E Conv
1993 Allante with Hardtop (X2)
2008 DTS
2012 CTS Coupe
2017 XT
1956 Thunderbird
1966 Olds Toronado

Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621

Quote from: Jon S on July 15, 2014, 10:28:04 PM
Dan -

I agree with all the comments, above.  I didn't know 1961 Fleetwoods could be ordered without air conditioning.  I thoght by 1961 it was standard.  Never too old to learn . . .

Believe it or not, air conditioning did not become standard until January 1, 1974 - across the board.



A Cadillac Motorcar is a Possession for which there is no Acceptable Substitute

Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621

#19
Sounds like a lot of putting things in and taking stuff apart for the comfort factor on a car that will see limited use. It also sounds like a recipe for creating other problems as well.

Don't get me wrong, nobody loves a/c more than I do - which is why I took the '77 instead of the '62 to Lake George but frankly Dan, the only way  would ever consider such surgery would be if I could find someone with considerable expertise to install a bone-stock a/c system.

Regarding the choice of a touring car, I could not agree with Ralph more on the 1977 - 1979 Fleetwood Brougham suggestion - best being a 1979. Immensely comfortable, reliable and relatively simple to service.

Without going into a lot of detail, it's far & away more practical than a 1976 for the type of use for which you have specified.

Either that or a 1990 - 1992 Brougham with 350. 1980 would not be a bad choice either but they're more difficult to find. 
A Cadillac Motorcar is a Possession for which there is no Acceptable Substitute