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Cadillac & LaSalle Club Forums => Technical / Authenticity => Topic started by: grantatx on November 26, 2017, 11:01:48 PM

Title: '70 Deville - kick panel speakers
Post by: grantatx on November 26, 2017, 11:01:48 PM
Hi All,

It's time to get some sounds in to the convertible, so I went to a local auto audio store today and asked them what they recommended. Kick panel speakers are apparently the done thing, but they want to make custom kick panel enclosures to hold the speakers - these would run $600. It's a bit rich for my blood, has anyone else done similar for a lesser cost?

Many thanks in advance,

Grant
Title: Re: '70 Deville - kick panel speakers
Post by: Jeff Rosansky CLC #28373 on November 26, 2017, 11:09:43 PM
Do you have the dash with stereo speakers?
Jeff
Title: Re: '70 Deville - kick panel speakers
Post by: cadillacmike68 on November 26, 2017, 11:42:55 PM
Even if he does they are only 3 & 1/2 in speakers.
Title: Re: '70 Deville - kick panel speakers
Post by: Jeff Rosansky CLC #28373 on November 27, 2017, 09:00:45 AM
Yes, but perhaps some higher $$ speakers there would save cutting the kick panel.
Jeff
Title: Re: '70 Deville - kick panel speakers
Post by: Dan LeBlanc on November 27, 2017, 09:07:54 AM
If an A/C car, the passenger side could be a bit challenging with the inlet for the A/C right there.  I would assume it would have to protrude into the footwell area quite a bit.
Title: Re: '70 Deville - kick panel speakers
Post by: grantatx on November 27, 2017, 10:05:51 AM
Yes, it is an A/C car - I haven't had a close look at the kick panels, didn't realize there was an A/C inlet there. It does have the twin speakers in the top of the dash - I guess I will have to go and have a listen to some 3 1/2 speakers and see if there's anything that can come close to 6 1/2 inch speakers.

Thanks for the info!
Title: Re: '70 Deville - kick panel speakers
Post by: TJ Hopland on November 27, 2017, 12:39:51 PM
What I have been seeing more and more lately is a custom built center console that sits on 'the hump'.   Depending on the space and design it can incorporate all the modern convinces like speakers, modern radio, cupholders,  usb charge ports.     The can be designed to be easily removed for security or shows.   One design I really liked the person attached it to a custom made reproduction carpet mat so it did double duty of protecting the original carpet and holding the console.   
Title: Re: '70 Deville - kick panel speakers
Post by: Dan LeBlanc on November 27, 2017, 01:00:45 PM
Speaker technology has come quite a long way.  Think of the sound you can get from bookshelf speakers in a home audio setup for example.  You should be able to get a couple 3 1/2" speakers that you could push quite a bit of power to and still be pleased with performance.
Title: Re: '70 Deville - kick panel speakers
Post by: 69Deville on November 27, 2017, 01:06:32 PM
I have a dual coil 4x10 in the dash, a dual coil 6x9 in the convertible rear speaker well and a small box 12" in the trunk. I use a 5 channel class d amp with Bluetooth . I can connect via an iPad, it sounds great, and I didn't have to cut anything or remove the original radio. Looks completely stock.
Title: Re: '70 Deville - kick panel speakers
Post by: grantatx on November 27, 2017, 04:02:49 PM
Thanks all, I see now there are other options. I like the idea of some high-end 3 1/2 speakers in the existing dash positions, a 6x9 in the rear well, and a subwoofer in the trunk. No modification required, and should be ample sound.
Title: Re: '70 Deville - kick panel speakers
Post by: Bob Hoffmann CLC#96 on November 27, 2017, 04:24:57 PM
I went thru that on my 70 conv. There is almost NO room for any quality dash speakers. I put a split speaker in the back seat grille. The one I wanted was on long back order. I had to modify the seat frame for my second choice. There's just no room for a quality speaker with a big magnet. NOT a fun job.
Bob
Title: Re: '70 Deville - kick panel speakers
Post by: 69Deville on November 27, 2017, 06:17:36 PM
This is what I have and am very happy with it.

https://www.crutchfield.com/p_068R69N/RetroSound-R-69N.html



Title: Re: '70 Deville - kick panel speakers
Post by: WTL on November 28, 2017, 05:08:11 AM
Right now, I have 2 6.5 inch pioneer walmart specials in the passenger seat footwell, pointed facing down from underneath the dash.  I've wondered if quality 3.5s, with their more acoustically appropriate position, would be superior to larger speakers mounted feebly.  It's true that there doesn't seem to be a good option.  Can we stuff a slightly larger speaker in the stock dash location? 
Title: Re: '70 Deville - kick panel speakers
Post by: cadillacmike68 on November 28, 2017, 10:08:16 AM
Quote from: grantatx on November 27, 2017, 10:05:51 AM
Yes, it is an A/C car - I haven't had a close look at the kick panels, didn't realize there was an A/C inlet there. It does have the twin speakers in the top of the dash - I guess I will have to go and have a listen to some 3 1/2 speakers and see if there's anything that can come close to 6 1/2 inch speakers.

Thanks for the info!

The other problem that you will run into is that the magnets on the modern speakers are quite a bit bigger and most likely will not fit in where the current speakers are. If I remember correctly (this was a looong time ago) with my 19070 Fleetwood, I could get one new front 3 &1/2 speaker to fit but not the other. Can't remember which side.

Now, the old speakers had good magnets - the local speaker / HiFi exchanges here say that they are better quality than the larger more inefficient magnets today, so if your magnets are good, any decent speaker store should be able to put new cones and perhaps voice coils in your existing speakers. That's what I had done to my convertible (AM only one speaker up front & in back) because a new 6x9 speaker would not fit in the area behind the chrome grill on the back seat. And I didn't even try with the front speaker which I think is a 4x10 (or a 6x9).

They work fine, but AM only, so I had a new unit put under the ashtray. I'll have to look into what TJ Hoplalong was writing about.

Quote from: mirrione3 on November 27, 2017, 06:17:36 PM
This is what I have and am very happy with it.

https://www.crutchfield.com/p_068R69N/RetroSound-R-69N.html

That speaker looks decent sand it will actually fit. The back, that is.  Pretty sure it won't fit the front of a non-stereo car, which I'm pretty sure is a 4x10, again, with NO extra clearances.


Quote from: WTL on November 28, 2017, 05:08:11 AM
Right now, I have 2 6.5 inch pioneer walmart specials in the passenger seat footwell, pointed facing down from underneath the dash.  I've wondered if quality 3.5s, with their more acoustically appropriate position, would be superior to larger speakers mounted feebly.  It's true that there doesn't seem to be a good option.  Can we stuff a slightly larger speaker in the stock dash location? 

NO, in most cases even a same sized speaker won't fit. I also have some 5 or 6" round speakers up under the dash pointing down and the carpeting soaks up almost all the sound!!! That hump mounted solution might be in order.

What I did was I left the original AM radio in place because it still works and I had the original speakers re-coned. But it's AM only. I had a modern single DIN sized unit (Kenwood AM-FM-CD-MP3disc-USB-Bluetooth-phone paired) put in an under dash mount that I had for some 30 years. I just screwed it to the bottom of the ashtray. Up front are the two speakers that get most of their sound absorbed by the carpeting. In the back a had two 6.5" put on the rear quarter interior panels. Yes I had to cut the panels, but so what, the vinyl already needed replacement. In the trunk is a 4 channel amp and a single channel amp (both Kicker) that power the 4 speakers and the 10" Kicker sub-woofer.

If I could get a reasonably priced hump mount, it would hold the head unit and two front speakers. and be an quick disconnect for shows. I would have to remove the Kicker sub-woofer from the trunk or put a big grey blanket on it.  :P But then again with other showy where "authenticity" is not a PITA of the first order of magnitude, the modern radio, amps and sub-woofer would be a plus  8)

Now I can actually hear it while cruising at interstate speeds with the top down.  ;)
Title: Re: '70 Deville - kick panel speakers
Post by: 2manycars on November 28, 2017, 06:31:15 PM
Check this guy out for speakers that will fit correctly. I've used his 67 Corvette speakers in cars I have worked on, and it is a very good speaker, with the correct electrical specs for that particular radio. (a CRUCIAL spec)

http://www.turnswitch.com/speakers.htm (http://www.turnswitch.com/speakers.htm)
Title: Re: '70 Deville - kick panel speakers
Post by: cadillacmike68 on November 28, 2017, 07:06:56 PM
Quote from: 2manycars on November 28, 2017, 06:31:15 PM
Check this guy out for speakers that will fit correctly. I've used his 67 Corvette speakers in cars I have worked on, and it is a very good speaker, with the correct electrical specs for that particular radio. (a CRUCIAL spec)

http://www.turnswitch.com/speakers.htm (http://www.turnswitch.com/speakers.htm)

Will those 6x9s fit in the back grille of our non-stereo DeVille convertibles??

It looks like they are using some original metal frames on some of their offerings and either original or replacement alnico magnets.. I still say that if your magnets are good, a good local speak company can re-cone them.
Title: Re: '70 Deville - kick panel speakers
Post by: 2manycars on November 28, 2017, 08:44:38 PM
I saw one that said it was made to fit into that rear seat grille in a convertible. GM used the same one in all convertibles that had that center grille setup.
Title: Re: '70 Deville - kick panel speakers
Post by: grantatx on November 28, 2017, 10:36:53 PM
Lots of good ideas in this thread! So what I'm going to try is:

2* 6 1/2 speakers in the kick panels - will attempt to fabricate a solution myself
Single dual voice coil 6*9 as suggested above for the rear well
2 * 10 inch sub woofers in the trunk

I'm ordering the components as we speak, will report back as I put it all together.

Thanks everyone for your input!

Title: Re: '70 Deville - kick panel speakers
Post by: cadillacmike68 on November 28, 2017, 11:41:31 PM
Two 10" sub-woofers in a Convertible trunk might take up too much trunk space. You need room for the amp(s) as well. That's giving up a lot of trunk space...
Title: Re: '70 Deville - kick panel speakers
Post by: 69Deville on November 28, 2017, 11:54:26 PM
The 6x9 fits perfectly without any modifications.

The 4x10 had to have the drivers side of the speakers basket turned off to clear the dashboard brace. Didn't affect sound quality.

Title: Re: '70 Deville - kick panel speakers
Post by: 69Deville on November 28, 2017, 11:56:19 PM
Quote from: grantatx on November 28, 2017, 10:36:53 PM
Lots of good ideas in this thread! So what I'm going to try is:

2* 6 1/2 speakers in the kick panels - will attempt to fabricate a solution myself
Single dual voice coil 6*9 as suggested above for the rear well
2 * 10 inch sub woofers in the trunk

I'm ordering the components as we speak, will report back as I put it all together.

Thanks everyone for your input!

For two 10s, you'll want to install a capacitor for the amp. Also, sound deadener is a must.
Title: Re: '70 Deville - kick panel speakers
Post by: grantatx on November 29, 2017, 12:08:11 PM
Quote from: mirrione3 on November 28, 2017, 11:56:19 PM
For two 10s, you'll want to install a capacitor for the amp. Also, sound deadener is a must.

OK, thanks, good to know. I've not used subs before - the advice is appreciated. Where would the sound deadener need to go?

Title: Re: '70 Deville - kick panel speakers
Post by: grantatx on November 29, 2017, 12:10:58 PM
Quote from: cadillacmike68 on November 28, 2017, 11:41:31 PM
Two 10" sub-woofers in a Convertible trunk might take up too much trunk space. You need room for the amp(s) as well. That's giving up a lot of trunk space...

Yes, the box does take up quite a bit of room, but fits snugly and still leaves me room for my gear (jack, spare, tools, car cover etc etc). See pic. I bought the box on a whim as it was a great deal for Cyber Monday. if it's not going to work out I'll get something smaller.
Title: Re: '70 Deville - kick panel speakers
Post by: TJ Hopland on November 29, 2017, 01:21:40 PM
I personally don't get the concept of smaller than 15" drivers as subs and having them in the trunk but that is a different discussion.   If that is your thing how about building a round box that would fit inside / on the spare tire?  That would be an advantage to an Eldo with the deep offset rim but even the RWD cars have some space to work with there.  It could be a hat shape if you wanted to get a little more cabinet volume which usually doesn't seem to be a concern in car audio.   If round was beyond your fabrication skills you could do a hex or octagon shape and still get a decent volume box.   It just seems like wasted space since most of the time they lay flat and you don't put stuff on top of them either.   
Title: Re: '70 Deville - kick panel speakers
Post by: WTL on November 29, 2017, 02:35:41 PM
Can't wait to see custom kick panels, if they work.  I'm further incentivized to go that route if feasible because my car lacks a driver side panel already.
Title: Re: '70 Deville - kick panel speakers
Post by: 69Deville on November 29, 2017, 03:52:01 PM
I'd do the whole trunk in sound deadener otherwise it will rattle significantly.

What type/size amps and head unit are you using?
Title: Re: '70 Deville - kick panel speakers
Post by: grantatx on November 30, 2017, 03:07:07 PM
Quote from: mirrione3 on November 29, 2017, 03:52:01 PM
I'd do the whole trunk in sound deadener otherwise it will rattle significantly.

What type/size amps and head unit are you using?

Amp is this:

http://www.kenwood.com/usa/car/excelon/xr900-5/

Head unit is this (marine unit for the remote):

http://www.kenwood.com/usa/car/marine/kmr-d765bt/
Title: Re: '70 Deville - kick panel speakers
Post by: cadillacmike68 on November 30, 2017, 09:33:10 PM
Quote from: grantatx on November 30, 2017, 03:07:07 PM
Amp is this:

http://www.kenwood.com/usa/car/excelon/xr900-5/

Head unit is this (marine unit for the remote):

http://www.kenwood.com/usa/car/marine/kmr-d765bt/

I got kicker a4 ch and a separate kicker 1 ch amp pair, but your kenwood radio / CD looks an awful lot like mine. It's essentially identical to my KDC BT565U, except yours is marine grade (probably a good thing) and you have a second USB cable in the rear. Mine came with a remote and a mic for the phone pairing.

My user manual has both our models in it. These units have a bewildering array of features / options.

That Kenwood amp has a powerful 1ch output, but the kickers have a lot of adjustments available on them to tune them to your own preferences.
Title: Re: '70 Deville - kick panel speakers
Post by: chrisntam on November 30, 2017, 09:56:43 PM
I too will be upgrading tunes for my '70.  I bought a pair of used kick panels so I can cut up, modify as needed.  I can always put my old ones back in when / if needed.  For the rear, my plan is 6 x 9s in boxes sitting on the back seat.  Will have quick disconnects to pull them out when need be.

After poking around in the kick panel area, their ain't much room between the panel and the e brake mech on the left side....

I thought about putting 6" speakers in enclosures and putting them up under the dash and have them point downward.

Still working on it (in my head).   ::)

It ain't easy unless yer a cutter.  I'm not a cutter.
Title: Re: '70 Deville - kick panel speakers
Post by: grantatx on December 01, 2017, 09:52:10 AM
Quote from: chrisntam on November 30, 2017, 09:56:43 PM
I too will be upgrading tunes for my '70.  I bought a pair of used kick panels so I can cut up, modify as needed.  I can always put my old ones back in when / if needed.  For the rear, my plan is 6 x 9s in boxes sitting on the back seat.  Will have quick disconnects to pull them out when need be.

After poking around in the kick panel area, their ain't much room between the panel and the e brake mech on the left side....

I thought about putting 6" speakers in enclosures and putting them up under the dash and have them point downward.

Still working on it (in my head).   ::)

It ain't easy unless yer a cutter.  I'm not a cutter.

Yup, that's exactly what I'm going to do, I have a pair of spare kick panels on their way to me from USA Parts Supply and intend to fit something like the following to them:

https://www.ebay.com/i/262029951455?chn=ps

Not exactly sure how I'm going to do that yet, but where there's a will there's a way.  I'll post results to the forum.

Title: Re: '70 Deville - kick panel speakers
Post by: grantatx on December 25, 2017, 11:06:50 PM
OK, got the sound system install done. 6 1/2 Infinitys in the kick panels, a dual voice coil 6x9 in the rear convertible alcove and a JL Audio bass bin with two 10 inch drivers in the trunk. Kenwood 1000w amp provides the power, a Kenwood head unit is the source and everything's controlled with a marine-style remote. See attached the pics of the kick panel build. I'll post pics of the rest soon.