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57 Biarritz On Ebay , could this be a converted Seville ?

Started by Bill Balkie 24172, June 19, 2011, 07:11:46 AM

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Bill Balkie 24172

Hello , I have been watching this auction on ebay and the more i look at it ,some things just don't look right . I do not see the switch for the top , the back seat is missing the  very expensive rear  speaker . The Biarritz  letters seam to be misplaced on the fenders , they do not show the inside of the trunk , and the boot is not installed correctly . If it is a conversion,  for the most part they  did a pretty good job .  Could this be possible ? Bill

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Cadillac-Eldorado-Biarritz-CA-solid-convertible-awesome-daily-driver-No-Reserve-_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem20ba5b5ac6QQitemZ140565502662QQptZUSQ5fCarsQ5fTrucks#v4-37
Bill Balkie
1970 Coupe DeVille
2009 CTS

The Tassie Devil(le)

The real way to check would be to read the ID Plate, and inspect the car in person.

As far as the Trunk goes, he probably didn't shut it after removing the hard boot parts to add them to the photograph.

Bruce. >:D
'72 Eldorado Convertible (LHD)
'70 Ranchero Squire (RHD)
'74 Chris Craft Gull Wing (SH)
'02 VX Series II Holden Commodore SS Sedan
(Past President Modified Chapter)

Past Cars of significance - to me
1935 Ford 3 Window Coupe
1936 Ford 5 Window Coupe
1937 Chevrolet Sports Coupe
1955 Chevrolet Convertible
1959 Ford Fairlane Ranch Wagon
1960 Cadillac CDV
1972 Cadillac Eldorado Coupe

Barry Norman

There is definitely no sign of the convertible top switch ever being there . :-\
Barry Norman

Bill Balkie 24172

The car looks like it was put together real fast , i dont even see the side view mirror control , or vent cranks . it has the autronic eye but no box under the hood .If it is a conversion they did a pretty good job . The back seat sits a llittle funny but it is hard to really tell from a picture .  But where is the top control ? I know i would be sick if i purchased a car only to find it was something else .  I have to agree with Bruce (The real way to check would be to read the ID Plate, and inspect the car in person.)

Bill

Bill Balkie
1970 Coupe DeVille
2009 CTS

Barry Norman

The " Biarritz " script is way far back on the front fender.. Very suspicious car in my opinion !
Barry Norman

Bob Hoffmann CLC#96

Read his feedback!!! All his responses to negs sound like the ones that luvdog gives. He's a TOTAL dealer. I'm not sure about any charity???
Somebody needs to ask for a picture of the data plate.
Bob
1968 Eldorado slick top ,white/red interior
2015 Holden Ute HSV Maloo red/black interior.
             
Too much fun is more than you can have.

76eldo

Interesting that the parade boot is red, to match the interior, not the body.

I'm only asking because i am putting one together for my 1960 convertible.  I always assumed the hard boot matches the body color, but a soft boot should match the interior color.

Any opinions on how a red hard boot would look on a white convertible with a red interior?

(Is this is what they mean by hijacking a thread, i apologize in advance)

Brian
Brian Rachlin
Huntingdon Valley, Pa
I prefer email's not PM's rachlin@comcast.net

1960 62 Series Conv with Factory Tri Power
1970 DeVille Conv
1970 Eldo
1970 Caribu (?) "The Cadmino"
1973 Eldorado Conv Pace Car
1976 Eldorado Conv
1980 Eldorado H & E Conv
1993 Allante with Hardtop (X2)
2008 DTS
2012 CTS Coupe
2017 XT
1956 Thunderbird
1966 Olds Toronado

veesixteen

It does look like a Biarritz (not a Seville). Interior was available in solid Kiowa red leather but the trim on the seats, seat backs and door panels is incorrect (Eldos had much narrower piping).
Yann Saunders, CLC #12588
Compiler and former keeper of "The Cadillac Database"
aka "MrCadillac", aka "Veesixteen"

tozerco

His positive feedback has been as low as 88%. That's way too far down for anyone I want to deal with so I'd suggest a good look before buying!

Regards,


John Tozer
#7946
John Tozer
#7946

'37 7513
'37 7533

Paul Tesone

I agree with the previous observations and comments about the location of the Biarritz lettering , the interior seats and side panels , the convertible top button and the hard boot color ( mine is body color ). Here are some photos of my 57's Biarritz lettering ,which was replaced back into their original body holes, and its original interior. I'm surprised the photos show the leather to be in such tough shape .I don't think the interior looks that bad in person, but maybe I should consider a dye job . So I might as well take this opportunity to ask the readers if anyone has had any experience dying their leather interior ? Thanks, Paul Tesone CLC #6876

Paul Tesone

Bill - two more photos . Paul Tesone CLC #6876

Quentin Hall

G'day Bill,
            I am reasonably certain that it is a genuine Biarritz. The give away is the stainless edging around the conv top/ parade boot. THe Biarritz has no press studs. So the next clue is that the Seville and Biarritz don't share the same boot lid. The Seville lid being longer. A cut and shut on one of these is tricky and would need a donor Biarritz.
            The Biarritz badge placement on the front fenders is a common mistake. The original holes get bogged and painted and some lazy repair guy loses the orignals and on go 70's ones. I have seen this on a dozen Biarritzs. The top of the fender wind splits are another common mistake area.
             The doors may have come off a donor coupe (I don't know) but they shouldn't have the lock on the wing-vent as previously stated. THe speaker grill can get terribly pitted and in the hands of the wrong restorer/plater/previous owner lost.
              As for the dash well yes it may be out of a coupe as well. Not hard to cut a rectanglular hole in there later on . Mind you I'd get a template off an original . 
              You gotta remember that these cars are nearly 60 years old and some have lived hard lives, especially converts. It may have been played with in the 60's the 70's the 80's the 90's et al. Anything could have happened. For the money I think it is reasonable. You could still have some fun for a while and fix it up as you go.
               Mind you the best way to be certain is to get the style nos off the IDTag it should read 6267 SX and the body nos should read 1800 or less , check if the chassis has the conv only stiffening plates welded to the underside of the chassis.
               The 57 Biarritz was the poor cousin to the 59 Biarritz pricewise for many years . Of late the higher end restoed 57s have far eclipsed 59s .
                Q
53 Eldo #319
53 Eldo #412.
53 Eldo #433
57 Biarritz
53 series 62 conv
39 Sixty Special Custom
57 Biarritz

Bill Balkie 24172

 Hello Quentin,
   Thanks for your response, you are correct in saying it would need a doner Biarritz  , and i would bet that this car is a Biarritz , but you never know what could of happened years ago .  This car could of been made out of several cars . Just to many question marks in my opinion . Stranger things have happened . As always buyer beware . The missing  convertable top switch is really strange ,How many times do you hear about people replacing the whole lower dash in a car , And even if someone took the time and money to do this , why not cut a hole in the lower dash to fit the switch ?  Does not make sense  to me .  I wish i could see this car however it is 3,000 miles away . It is very interesting , Like you said with the price of these cars going up .... you never know .   bill
Quote from: Quentin Hall on June 20, 2011, 06:25:53 AM
G'day Bill,
            I am reasonably certain that it is a genuine Biarritz. The give away is the stainless edging around the conv top/ parade boot. THe Biarritz has no press studs. So the next clue is that the Seville and Biarritz don't share the same boot lid. The Seville lid being longer. A cut and shut on one of these is tricky and would need a donor Biarritz.
            The Biarritz badge placement on the front fenders is a common mistake. The original holes get bogged and painted and some lazy repair guy loses the orignals and on go 70's ones. I have seen this on a dozen Biarritzs. The top of the fender wind splits are another common mistake area.
             The doors may have come off a donor coupe (I don't know) but they shouldn't have the lock on the wing-vent as previously stated. THe speaker grill can get terribly pitted and in the hands of the wrong restorer/plater/previous owner lost.
              As for the dash well yes it may be out of a coupe as well. Not hard to cut a rectanglular hole in there later on . Mind you I'd get a template off an original . 
              You gotta remember that these cars are nearly 60 years old and some have lived hard lives, especially converts. It may have been played with in the 60's the 70's the 80's the 90's et al. Anything could have happened. For the money I think it is reasonable. You could still have some fun for a while and fix it up as you go.
               Mind you the best way to be certain is to get the style nos off the IDTag it should read 6267 SX and the body nos should read 1800 or less , check if the chassis has the conv only stiffening plates welded to the underside of the chassis.
               The 57 Biarritz was the poor cousin to the 59 Biarritz pricewise for many years . Of late the higher end restoed 57s have far eclipsed 59s .
                Q
Bill Balkie
1970 Coupe DeVille
2009 CTS

Stewart Homan

My two-penneth worth...

Looks like something put together in TJ to me - especially as it's in San Diego.

I would never go on the chassis plates on a car so obviously got at like this.

The first thing I'd like to see is pictures of the chassis, pictures of the inside trunk sheetmetal, pictures of the 'A' post sans trim, pictures of the interior light in the rear of front seat armrest.

I reckon this is a somewhat okay Seville and a rough donor Biarritz for the rear tub, window frames, top frame and 'A' post header.

It's had a huge amount of work done but to be nice everything needs to be redone.

For that kind of money, I think you could do better!

Mike Josephic CLC #3877

This is what I would call a "Frankenstein Car" -- put together from pieces
of stuff from other donors.

The overall look is shoddy, the color combo is the pits and the top fit is
awful -- just what I would expect from a creation of this kind.

I would run -- not walk -- from this beauty at ANY price.

Mike
1955 Cadillac Eldorado
1973 Cadillac Eldorado
1995 Cadillac Seville
2004 Escalade
1997 GMC Suburban 4X4, 454 engine, 3/4 ton
custom built by Santa Fe in Evansville, IN
2011 Buick Lucerne CX
-------------------------------------
CLCMRC Museum Benefactor #38
Past: VP International Affiliates, Museum Board Director, President / Director Pittsburgh Region

Barry Norman

Love the pics of that original interior ! Thanks for posting !
Barry Norman

Jim Beard

#16
I asked for a picture of the data plate and this is what I got back, good thing it still has the original rivits though:

Seller has responded to your question about this item 

Do not respond to the sender if this message requests that you complete the transaction outside of eBay. This type of offer is against eBay policy, may be fraudulent, and is not covered by buyer protection programs. Learn More. 

                       
Dear beard_bros,

the data plate is missing. The rivets are still there.


- charitykars Click "respond" to reply through Messages, or go to your email to reply


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: beard_bros
To: charitykars
Subject: Other: beard_bros_hot_rods sent a message about Cadillac : Eldorado #140565502662
Sent Date: Jun-21-11 17:15:55 PDT



Bill Balkie 24172

Hello Jim , Iasked a few question myself , this is the answer i got .







--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: 1957eldorado
To: charitykars
Subject: Other: 1957eldorado sent a message about Cadillac : Eldorado #140565502662
Sent Date: Jun-19-11 03:31:39 PDT


                       
                       
Dear charitykars,

Hello , I really like the car but a few question . I do not see the the convertable top switch , it seams to be filled in . Also the car has the autronic eye on the dash , but the electronic box is not in the engine compatment , does it have the vent window cranks ? and i do not see the rear convertable speaker between the two back seats .Also i do not see the electric window switches to operate the rear windows Was this car modified to be a convertable ? With all that being said , it is still a very nice car . Bill


- 1957eldorado 
answer

Dear 1957eldorado,

I'm not familiar what goes where because I just list them for the charity organization. This is a donated car, sorry.


- charitykars Click "respond" to reply through Messages, or go to your email to reply


                   
                   
Bill Balkie
1970 Coupe DeVille
2009 CTS

Eldovert

Dear 1957eldorado,

"I'm not familiar what goes where because I just list them for the charity organization. This is a donated car, sorry."

My guess is the vendor will use this as an "out" when one discovers that there are issues with the car.
Cheers,Pat MacPhail


Bill Balkie 24172

As strange as that car and auction was it still sold for $57,000  . I think we will see that car again on Ebay . Something very fishy about that car .
Bill Balkie
1970 Coupe DeVille
2009 CTS